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Geek Culture / team request post locking unfair

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Metel Artz
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Posted: 2nd May 2005 11:06
i posted a post on a team i was trying to build and it got locked. i looked up team in the forum search and it brought be to 19 posts of people posting about making up a team there are probably more than that but of those 19 only 2 of them were actually locked. none were flamebait. but personally, i think the mods are being slightly unfair and locking posts under there own oppinion not on the forum rules if they went according to the forum rules then they would have locked 99.5% of those posts.

Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 2nd May 2005 11:08
the 99.5% is a new rule. And every newbie that gets a thread locked always posts a reprocussion and it gets annoying. So...GO AWAY!

Digitalmodr
Coder_David
[Apolloed ]
Metel Artz
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Posted: 2nd May 2005 11:09
actually number one im not a newbie and now this is the first time if made another post about something already posted.

Jess T
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 2nd May 2005 11:20
Apolloed... shut up

Metel Artz,
I don't know where your Team Request was, nor do I really care...
The reason it was locked was that is was not well-formed, was too ambitious, and/or you had no work to show for yourself.

If you were smart, you left your contact details in the post, so even though it's still locked, people can see how to get in touch if they want to help you.

Team Request board was demolished cos it was attracting somewhat of a battle arena feel with flamers and requesters...

Thus, requests started to filter into the rest of the forum, and we ( Mods and the Admin, Rich ) came up with some new, unspoken rules. ( ie, rules that are pretty common sense and/or knowledge, but aren't in the AUP ).
These rules were pretty much saying that if a post is a DIRECT team request, it's locked on site.
If it's a WIP, asking for help, with nothing to show, it's locked on site.
If it's a WIP with a little to show, it's concidered, maybe left for a little to see where it goes, then usually ends up in a lock.
If it's a WIP with a whole load to show, great progress made, and, you happen to mention, in passing, that it would be nice to get some help on say, some models, then it's left, and they are the ONLY ones we will tollerate.

There are also certain circumstances where these rules are bent, such as if FOG was to post asking for help, without any progress to show, he's known for completing his games, so we know it's legit

Those posts that you saw in the search are either old ones ( before TR was shut down ), or are legit, or haven't been seen by the Mods yet

Jess.


Team EOD :: All-Round Nice Guy
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Ian T
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Posted: 2nd May 2005 11:26
Quote: "if they went according to the forum rules then they would have locked 99.5% of those posts. "


Zero tolerance is the forum rule, and we do lock 100% of useless team request posts.

Metel Artz
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Location: Vermont USA
Posted: 2nd May 2005 11:33
ok then if this post does get locked which it probably will, here is my contact info for me trying to start a team and Jessticular not trying to be mean or anything but how will people know if i do not comlete game or not if i can't start up a team? anyway heres my contact info

team@metelartz.com
metelartz@metelartz.com
and contact@metelartz.com

im trying to start a SMALL one.

Jess T
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Posted: 2nd May 2005 11:39
It's not that we don't know if you'll complete it... I mean, you could be THE MOST committe person in the world... However, we can only judge what are capable of from what you post on the forum.
If you don't post good progress, you'll be held in a regard that you cannot complete the title, however, if you post good progress, then we can all see that you're quite capable of making a game, and are serious about finishing it.

One of the major down-falls of projects is that they never get seen through... They start, they get a team, they disapear, never ever to be seen again.
Without obvious commitment, we cannot know that this will not happen to you, so we assume the worse ( helps keep this place alot cleaner in the long run! ).

Jess.

PS No offence taken


Team EOD :: All-Round Nice Guy
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Metel Artz
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Posted: 2nd May 2005 11:43
ok but i dont really post to much on coding in the forums, becuase ive always been working on a game now which is almost finished just putting finishing touches on it once its done you can excpect a post from me in the showcase board. or the workin progress board i dont know i can't think that hard

Osiris
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Posted: 2nd May 2005 11:49
You know, this kind of thing should be put in the AUP.

Metel Artz
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Posted: 2nd May 2005 11:50
thats what i said in the other post the one at the top

Osiris
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Posted: 2nd May 2005 12:34
Well, I mean add it, then put read first, not sticky, at the top of each forum, and put a link to the AUP there.

Jeku
Moderator
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Posted: 2nd May 2005 13:45
If Rich wants to make a sticky and/or adjust the AUP, then he can do that. But right now we will lock, like Mouse said, 100% of useless team requests. That is also a great way to let people know the rules, as probably everybody reads the locked threads out of curiosity.


--[GameBasic - Coming Soon]-- ^^^ banner generously designed by TheBigBabou
Richard Davey
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Posted: 2nd May 2005 16:45
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=team_requests

Two Worlds and in Between
Hot Metal and Methedrine
PowerSoft
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Posted: 2nd May 2005 17:19
Rich, how about adding it onto the new user sign up form and add some simple questions.

"Where can you post a TR? "

This way the new users are educated....

[b]PowerScript: Currently Working on Expression Evaluating, thanks alot DavidT for the help
Dave J
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Posted: 2nd May 2005 17:20
Unfortunately they don't read that stuff anyway.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
Richard Davey
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Posted: 2nd May 2005 17:26
I would but it's never read!

I could have it plastered across the front of a massive wobbling female chest and people would still not read it.

Two Worlds and in Between
Hot Metal and Methedrine
PowerSoft
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Posted: 2nd May 2005 17:47
yea but if they dont answer the questions no login for them

[b]PowerScript: Currently Working on Expression Evaluating, thanks alot DavidT for the help
David T
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Posted: 2nd May 2005 18:25
What about just banningg the words "team" and "request" from topic titles?

Facts are meaningless.
You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true.
Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 2nd May 2005 20:30
"team" could be used for other stuff though...i think. As for "Request"..ban away!

Digitalmodr
Coder_David
[Apolloed ]
David T
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Posted: 2nd May 2005 20:50
Hence "team" AND "request". Need I remind you what the AND boolean operator means

Facts are meaningless.
You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true.
Dave J
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Posted: 2nd May 2005 23:27
You need remind me.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 3rd May 2005 01:16 Edited at: 3rd May 2005 01:18
The new mods have been ruthless the past couple of months.

The following is locked by mods daily. Posts that:
-Concern the community
-Encourage change
-do not praise the mods
-contain spelling errors
-contain grammer errors
-aren't awsome

My cat! My cat is on fire! Dear god someone help!
SageTech
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Location: Orlando, Florida
Posted: 3rd May 2005 01:24
To all who plan to make a post about how the mods were unfair:

A while ago I was banned from the site for a week for reasons i thought were unfair, however the mods are incharge, and wasting forum space with a thread that complains it wasnt fair are usless and... a waste of space so get over it and move on.

Sagetech forums currently down
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 3rd May 2005 01:27
That incident wasen't "unfair". You're just a plain pain in the ass.

My cat! My cat is on fire! Dear god someone help!
flibX0r
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Posted: 3rd May 2005 01:33
Quote: " That incident wasen't "unfair". You're just a plain pain in the ass."


Well said

@Sage Tech

*cough*GO AWAY*cough*





You can't wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you
vid1987
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Posted: 3rd May 2005 01:44
I'm not trying to flame but I'm confused...
Why do Moderators have to counter-flame the users..

Aren't they supposed to be helping the users out instead of...
Quote: "Apolloed... shut up

Metel Artz,
I don't know where your Team Request was, nor do I really care...
"


Hmm.. I wonder...

DC the Great Inventor
Hawkeye
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Posted: 3rd May 2005 01:53
Because they're having a long day with filtering out spam, and they aren't excactly feeling charitible towards anyone who doesn't "get it."

Baggers
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Posted: 3rd May 2005 01:55 Edited at: 3rd May 2005 01:57
Easy guys !.. as far as i can tell sage had turned over a new leaf...so lets get over it....but they are right sage you were a total pain in the ass !

@Metel Artz: Even if you have a project it isnt easy to get help for it , heck ive got a stable project and have had a hell of a time getting artists, in fact im still in the market !
So youll need something pretty damn good to catch people's eyes.

How about doing it like film producers.
e.g. A new'ish film producer wants to make a huge movie, they would have to make numerous lower budget projects to show the companies they borrow money off they are able to deliver. Then they are considered for making their dream movie...so get out there and make some small, stylish, fun games and woo us into helping you !
Also I advise helping people and becoming part of the community !

Good Luck

Richard Davey
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Posted: 3rd May 2005 02:03
Quote: "I'm not trying to flame but I'm confused...
Why do Moderators have to counter-flame the users..
Aren't they supposed to be helping the users out instead of..."


That isn't the role of a moderator to be honest. A moderator, well.. moderates.. deals with the trouble and strife that running a forum brings. Moderator is not synonomous for "help desk" I'm afraid. While it's true that lots of the mods are very skilled and will help out when they feel like it, it's not a requirement of their mod status.

Two Worlds and in Between
Hot Metal and Methedrine
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 3rd May 2005 02:06 Edited at: 3rd May 2005 02:06
Mods also feast on the souls of the un-experienced.

My cat! My cat is on fire! Dear god someone help!
David T
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Posted: 3rd May 2005 02:25 Edited at: 3rd May 2005 02:25
Quote: "You need remind me. "


If both team and request are present

@ all those complaining:

- Team Requests a a general lock on sight, unless they're properly done (99% aren't). (example: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=53197&b=2)

- Stupidity
(absolute classic: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=41956&b=2 follow up: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=41958&b=2)

- Multiple posting (example: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=53118&b=2)

- Questioning decisions. Lets face it, its like running up to a referee trying to get him to change their mind. Not going to happen. (example: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=53132&b=2)

Everything else up to discretion.

Facts are meaningless.
You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true.
Hawkeye
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Posted: 3rd May 2005 03:06
ROFL @ the grey-hat hacker dude While it's true that hackers aren't all bad, he sure gave them a bad name..

Mentor
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Posted: 3rd May 2005 06:02 Edited at: 3rd May 2005 06:06
UMMM! you guys had better check your definitions, a hacker is a good programmer, no more, a cracker is someone who does what you seem to think a hacker does (ie break into other systems or attack them), the references have been mangled over the years but I have been around enough to know one from the other.

see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker

although the brainless press misunderstood and hijacked the term, amongst the Linux community programmers are still referred to as hackers, it was just the script kiddies that tried to steal the name hacker and apply it to themselves to make them look intelligent, a hacker is a programmer with an above average skill and ability (often disorganised ), crackers break into or disrupt systems.

almost two decades ago I was a hacker and hackers where people who could make a computer do things other users couldn`t, I resent script kiddies trying to steal my monicker, or that they think they are on the same level as me, I am a hacker and proud of it, I learnt the hard way on my own with just reference manuals, no internet, no forums, no downloadable tutorials, script kiddies are dumbasses who erase the drives on a system at 127.0.0.1 because they don`t know any better.

this is just the same as people who consider themselves "leet", in the early days of the net you couldn`t just go around downloading what you wanted and giving back nothing, you had a ratio, people who made good contributions could download more than people who didn`t, some people where considered so special (like Linus Torvalds) that they had the rating of "leet" or "elite", sysops allowed them to have no limits since they contributed to the community so much that it was considered worthwhile to allow them all the access they wanted, (just for the record, Gates was never "leet"...neither was I come to that).

nowdays kiddies with bad english and a tendency to make illegible posts seem to think themselves "leet", real modern "leet" users still get special treatment on servers and networks "in the know", in some cases this is even extended to them having seriously fast (and normaly commercial only high speed connections) at home free of charge, servers for their own use etc.

Mentor.

PC1:XP, P4 3ghz, 1gig mem, 3x160gig hd`s, Radeon 9800pro, 6 way sound.
PC2: Linux, AMD 2ghz, 512mb ram, Nvidia GeForce4mx, 16 bit SB.
PC3: XP, laptop, intel 2.6ghz celeron, ATI 9000igp, 256mb
Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 3rd May 2005 06:07
a "Hacker" is someone who is gaining access to files and computer components and/or hidden "program code". In fact, may large companies hire many hackers to test and update the systems and security. The act of "Hacking"(unless with an axe on a person) is not always illegal. A "cracker" is someone who "cracks" systems and security measurements in order to gain access to something without proper permission(i.e. implied your not supposed to), the act of "cracking" is more often illegal than not.

At least thats how i see things

Digitalmodr
Coder_David
[Apolloed ]
Jimmy
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Posted: 3rd May 2005 14:55
Well you see things like a blooming idiot.

Jess T
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Posted: 3rd May 2005 16:35
dc 1987,
Quote: "Why do Moderators have to counter-flame the users..

Aren't they supposed to be helping the users out instead of...
...etc..."


I apollogize for that. It really came out the wrong way.

I didn't want Apolloed telling people what goes on in the forums... From what I've seen of his/her posts ( alot, unfortunatly ), he/she is in no possition at all to tell people about rules.

Not careing about the Team Request was meant to be something more like "It doesn't matter what it contianed... If it got locked, here are the reasons;"

Sorry.

Jess.


Team EOD :: All-Round Nice Guy
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Dave J
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Posted: 3rd May 2005 18:20
Do you also apologise for the horrendous spelling your post contained? I'm not really that caring, but unfortunately I am in a position to tell you that you did have a lot of errors!


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
adr
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Posted: 3rd May 2005 18:31 Edited at: 3rd May 2005 18:37
My posts are, for the mostpart, fairly harmless and so I've never really locked horns with one of the Mods. So, I'm not usually very vocal on the whole moderator front.

One of the links provided by David where Exeat just replied "No" and locked the posts concerned me. Admittedly, it was a silly mistake but it was the dude's first day on the forum. If you're gonna simply reply with "No" at least leave the thread unlocked so that someone else can perhaps explain where he went wrong.... Perhaps even provide a link to the AUP/team requests page... Something. Anything. I realise that the Moderators are not paid positions, and so they should not be expected to provide helpdesk-esque support. But you can't help but see how their actions reflect on the company. After all, you (TGC) have charged them with the responsibility of moderating the forums.

I don't particularly care if anyone happens to agree with that. That may seem arrogant, but from a selfish point of view, I've never had (and hopefully never will) have a run in with a lock-happy mod. I like to think that's because I'm not a moron. Kinda.

@Apolloed

I'm with Mentor on this one. Hacker ~= Coder. It's an informal, perhaps even disrespectful term for a programmer. You hack at a program until it works. You make a "quick and dirty hack".

By your definition, a Hacker accesses files he shouldn't, but has no actual knowledge on how to "Crack" security systems/programs.

Me? With my reputation?
Jess T
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Posted: 3rd May 2005 18:47
Yes, Exeat, I also apologise for my spelling errors!

adr,
You have a point there
I try to be polite and explanitory ( ok, Exeat, is that spelt right!? ), or if not, at least not rude

Jess.


Team EOD :: All-Round Nice Guy
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flibX0r
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Posted: 3rd May 2005 20:48
With the definition of 'hacker', originally it was what Mentor said, and now thanks to the computer-illiterate mass media groups, it is now generally means what Apolloed said



You can't wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you
Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 3rd May 2005 20:49
Hurrah for the
Quote: "computer-illiterate mass media groups"
!

Digitalmodr
Coder_David
[Apolloed ]
Richard Davey
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Posted: 3rd May 2005 21:01
Quote: "Perhaps even provide a link to the AUP/team requests page"


I'm not saying that "no" was the right answer for a 1 day old forum member, but in all fairness Exeat couldn't have linked to the TR information page at the time because I hadn't written it. Hopefully this won't be a problem now.

Two Worlds and in Between
Hot Metal and Methedrine
Dave J
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Posted: 3rd May 2005 21:05
Quote: "One of the links provided by David where Exeat just replied "No" and locked the posts concerned me. Admittedly, it was a silly mistake but it was the dude's first day on the forum. If you're gonna simply reply with "No" at least leave the thread unlocked so that someone else can perhaps explain where he went wrong.... Perhaps even provide a link to the AUP/team requests page... Something. Anything."


It may interest you to know that I emailed the author of the thread explaining the whole 'team request' situation and why his thread was locked.


Quote: "I try to be polite and explanitory ( ok, Exeat, is that spelt right!? )"


No, it's spelled 'explanatory'. I really think you need to get a spellchecker...


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
adr
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Posted: 3rd May 2005 22:02
Quote: "Exeat couldn't have linked to the TR information page at the time because I hadn't written it."


pfft. Any excuse ...

Quote: "It may interest you to know that I emailed the author of the thread explaining the whole 'team request' situation and why his thread was locked."


In which case I tip my hat to you...

Uhh... Since all my points were basically demolished, I feel like a bit of a prick now. Mods are fine upstanding people an' all that.



Me? With my reputation?
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 4th May 2005 01:33 Edited at: 4th May 2005 01:33
The mods are friendly folk. (Like Hobbits) But some of them also have lives (read: Some) so they cannot be everywhere at once. (Nor have the patience to deal with people who have a phobia of Rules & Stickys.)

My cat! My cat is on fire! Dear god someone help!
David T
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Posted: 4th May 2005 01:47
Quote: "One of the links provided by David where Exeat just replied "No" and locked the posts concerned me. Admittedly, it was a silly mistake but it was the dude's first day on the forum. If you're gonna simply reply with "No" at least leave the thread unlocked so that someone else can perhaps explain where he went wrong.... "


I must admit that that looked like complete stonewall spam. I would have done the same, locked it and probably left a very curt message. There's so much trash like that it's hard to be polite and smiley every time.

Quote: "so they cannot be everywhere at once. (Nor have the patience to deal with people who have a phobia of Rules & Stickys.)"


Amen to that

Facts are meaningless.
You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true.
Metel Artz
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Posted: 4th May 2005 05:50
Quote: "I really think you need to get a spellchecker... "
use google or microsoft word!

Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 4th May 2005 06:01
Is it just me or is this the most posted "team request post locking unfair" thread ever?

Digitalmodr
Coder_David
[Apolloed ]
Jimmy
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Posted: 4th May 2005 06:08
Quote: "Quote: "I really think you need to get a spellchecker... "
use google or microsoft word!"


Well, I think, then, it's time we told you... it's spelled Metle, not Metel.

David T
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Posted: 4th May 2005 06:08
Yeah, because for some reason it wasn't locked straight away

Facts are meaningless.
You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true.

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