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Geek Culture / Teenager Anarchy

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 20th Jul 2005 23:44
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Hi guys,

I was having an argument with someone over the "state of kids today". Their comments being:

"You cannot deny that children/young adults behave differently (worse) than they did when we were young, did anyone go nicking cars when you were a kid? No. Children are being molly coddled now into believing that they able to do pretty much want they want and society will accept it."

I disagree with this and believe it's more an issue of social class / parenting / environment that breeds this, just like it did 20+ years ago when I was a kid. I don't believe the root causes have changed.

But, as I'm not actually a teenager any more and don't attend schools - what do you all think? Seeing as most of you are. Do you get fed-up with the portrayal of teenagers in the news as being socially enept criminals, or do you think it's pretty accurate?!

Cheers,

Rich
PS - I'm not after a flame war here, just your opinions.

A great many people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices.
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FROGGIE!
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Posted: 20th Jul 2005 23:58
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i agree, it seems to be all to do with social class or parenting. Think about it most of the trouble happens with kids from council estates (not that they are all bad), and they tend to have parents who have split up or are not around or dont know/care what thier kids do.
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Arkheii
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 00:12
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Actually, the case is different here. The society doesn't blame teenagers. However, we do blame politicians and the dumbwits who voted for them.

Spank the parents!
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Rob K
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 00:17
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Quote: "But, as I'm not actually a teenager any more and don't attend schools - what do you all think? Seeing as most of you are. Do you get fed-up with the portrayal of teenagers in the news as being socially enept criminals, or do you think it's pretty accurate?!"


The news media reports the exceptions, not the normality. "Teenagers Well Behaved at Nightclub" would not make for an attention-grabbing story. As it happens, I don't live in an area which suffers from high youth-crime, but a little incident a couple of years ago taught me to be very careful about what you see on TV or read in the papers.

I attended the last march the Countryside Alliance staged in London, which was attended by 400,000 people, most of them ordinary farmers. Along the entire route of the march, I encountered around 40 to 50 anti-march protesters. On the BBC News report that evening, they somehow managed to receive 2/3rds of the coverage, despite being a complete nonentity.

Quote: "You cannot deny that children/young adults behave differently (worse) than they did when we were young, did anyone go nicking cars when you were a kid? No. Children are being molly coddled now into believing that they able to do pretty much want they want and society will accept it."


Whatever your friend may say, I'm sure that it is still possible to raise well-behaved children. As you say, the environment in which children are raised, their expectations of what they can achieve when they grow up and the attitude of the parents are as important as any other factors.


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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 00:28 Edited at: 21st Jul 2005 00:29
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Quote: "Do you get fed-up with the portrayal of teenagers in the news as being socially enept criminals, or do you think it's pretty accurate?!"


Nothing but BS. Just because some do marijuana/crack, shuffle around the streets in groups at 3am wearing pants up to our knees, sideways hats, and maybe jack a car or two?

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

And believe me, it's every bit to do with tv. (Mostly targeted are the Rap Videos)


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BatVink
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 00:34
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My kids are 18 mths, 6 and 8. They have 2 parents, married. They are already a handful, and very hard work.

Without 2 very stressed parents who actually care about what they do and don't do, explaining the rights and wrongs, they could very easily become thugs. However hard it is, we keep them in check, whilst still letting them develop into their own characters and experiencing life to the full...for their age. They don't watch 18 certificate films, like some of their friends, and at 8 years old my eldest gets to play football and racing games, not blood 'n' guts shoot 'em ups.

I hope we are doing a good job and they become the upstanding citizens every parent would want their kids to be.

Any child with just one parent, a split home, bad influences, or lack of moral direction has a distinct disadvantage. You can't blame the child for their environment, it's not within their control. "Growing Up" is the hardest thing you ever have to do, you need support.

So yes, I agree with you, Mr Davey.

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Van B
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 00:46 Edited at: 21st Jul 2005 00:56
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I find it hard to blame anyone but the parents.

Environment plays a part in all our lives, so I don't think it's a good idea for people to use it as an excuse, I mean it seems that we live in a blame culture more and more - how can a parent justify their kid stealing a car because 'it's widespread in the area they live in'.

Frankly if you don't know where your kid is, your doubly responsible for what they do IMO.

I agree with the points RobK makes about us only hearing about the 'worst cases' - that's always annoyed me, but it's part of human nature I suppose, because our pessimism means we only really need to worry about the bad news. I could go on about how well behaved, socialy responsible and intelligent my son is, but nobody want's to read that - now if he'd been caught getting a pre-teen pregnant in the back of a stolen BMW then you'd be all ears .

I'm against tagging, but I would'nt be against parental tagging - where if your kid get's outwith a certain distance away from you the police are called in - that way the kid is tagged to their guardian and not the area that lands them in the most trouble.

I don't think social class has that much to do with it really - it's just that higher class families can hide their kids mistakes easily. You gotta consider that drugs are expensive, and class just does'nt factor in drug addiction, it factors in how people get the money - it might be easy to borrow from dad, or it might be easier to borrow next doors XBox and sell it at the local branch of 'Cash Generator'. The root causes are always furthest away from the solution (incarceration for instance).


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Hawkeye
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 00:53
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Letsee... yeah, today's kids suck. Now, what can we attribute to that? Rap music, public school system, and... lousy parenting. Hip-hop just sucks, I mean if it wern't for getting arrested/drunk/high half of the artests wouldn't be selling albums. Public school system... essh don't get me started on that. Parents who can't control their kids are another factor.

...

Thank god I'm homeschooled and have decent parents that know how to say "no"


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DBAlex
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 01:06
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Well your damn lucky...

I have to go to the local high school which is a pile of crap, They prefer to spend £500 on a new floodlight than on textbooks that we are in need of!

Todays youths arent all that bad... But I know that half my school are total idiots... Theres nothing much I or anyone can do about that, Its there attitude and up-bringing that is to blame.

Also I dont think Rap music helps... I think it influences them too damn much...

But I hate rap music anyway

I cant complain though, My parents have been great to me... Except when they bought my sister a laptop and not me one... J/K


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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 01:09 Edited at: 21st Jul 2005 01:13
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I agree with Hawkeye. While we can't directly place the blame on "hip-hop" we can blame the idiots who are into it, and actually take it seriously.

Whoever honestly believes this "Parents are responsible", and "The parents should be better parents" non-sense obviously forgot what it's like to be younger. Kids go to school, parents go to work. Not only are kids at school, with thier friends/infulences/peerpressure/whatever other crap for 7 hours a day without parents around, but most parents also work late hours. It is very very difficult to know exactly what your child is up to when they are outside and even harder to try hounding them.


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Jess T
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 01:20
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Quote: "Do you get fed-up with the portrayal of teenagers in the news as being socially enept criminals, or do you think it's pretty accurate?!"


Yep, fairly accurate...

I recently turned 18, and started Uni, so I'm pretty much past that stage ( and into the pub/fun stage where we just hang out and get drunk alot [without the disordely ] ).

Where I went to school... It was some bad stuff that went on around there... I concider myself a good kid; Don't do drugs, don't smoke, only drink on occasions; don't vandalize, but I still had fun being a little sh*t to people every now and then

The problem is, as mentioned, that there's too much focus on the bad things.

But, that's not what's only to blame, as I said, my area was bad for it. I mean, people tried to sell you ( that is, anyone over the age of 10 ) cigarettes just outside the school fence!

Parenting is a major factor... If the kid doesn't get loved, and told what is wrong, and told to focus in class ( like the ones about using a condom, and the history classes about how the bad guy never wins, etc ) then no doubt, they wont see anything moraly wrong with what they're doing - It's a bit of fun, and (generally) they get away with nothing more than a slap on the wrist.

Just my 2c

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Benjamin
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 01:21 Edited at: 21st Jul 2005 01:22
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It is very much down to the parents, but the media is very influential, so combine bad parenting with a bit(lot) of brainwashing by the media and a pinch of salt, and theres your local vandal.

Quote: " Now, what can we attribute to that? Rap music"

Yes. Not so much the music, but the image.


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Van B
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 01:21
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So what is the deciding factor then?

I mean if you put 2 families next door to each other in the same street - clone them if you like, but what is the deciding factor that makes little JimmyA more responsible than JimmyB. It could only ever be parenting.

You can never know everything that your kid is upto, but the trick is to raise your kid to tell you what they're doing and where they're going. It's upto the parent how much freedom they dish out - and a parent that never shows concearn about this stuff has no one to blame but themself when it's the police waking them at 3 in the morning.


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Benjamin
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 01:25
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Quote: "Do you get fed-up with the portrayal of teenagers in the news as being socially enept criminals, or do you think it's pretty accurate?!"

It depends on where you live. Where I used to live, I would say thats a pretty accurate portrayal.


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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 01:34
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Can someone tell me how a parent is supposed to "look out" for thier kid when he lives for school in the morning, skips whatever classe he wants, smokes some weed with his friends, and maybe shoplifts abit after? If someone is used to this sort of life style, no "Whats right and wrong" lecture will change their mind.


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the_winch
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 01:35 Edited at: 21st Jul 2005 01:36
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There isn't a single factor it is much more complicated than that.

There are loads of families that have serveral ok children and one nightmare child. The only way a parent can be 100% sure what a child is doing is to follow them everywhere.

Blaming rap music is using the same logic as people that want to ban video games.
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 02:08
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Quote: "Can someone tell me how a parent is supposed to "look out" for thier kid when he lives for school in the morning, skips whatever classe he wants, smokes some weed with his friends, and maybe shoplifts abit after? If someone is used to this sort of life style, no "Whats right and wrong" lecture will change their mind."


No, by that point it's sort of too late - those kinds of responsabilities should have been instilled at a far far younger age.

I don't believe parents are always to blame, there are many many factors from the dip-shit media, to movies, to games (yes, games), to peer group pressure, to pure idiocy If there was only one problem, it could be resolved, but there isn't.

Anyway I was more interested to know what the majority of kids are like at your schools - not the select few.

A great many people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices.
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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 02:39 Edited at: 21st Jul 2005 02:45
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Quote: "Anyway I was more interested to know what the majority of kids are like at your schools "


Everyone in my school did well and behaved, but at night everything changes. There are some older kids who push drink and hard drugs, and I suspect this is typical of most areas of rural Scotland. People accept because of boredom.

I know a few people that steer clear; but only a few. I'd agree with the newspapers to be honest, my area is supposed to be a nice village and it has some serious problems, kids just get sucked into them as soon as they turn about 12-13.

The nearby city (Inverness) is even worse, I've gotten into fights, chases, arguments etc with NED's during the few times I've been there at night, unprovoked every time. It's worrying.

Kid's in Scotland are stupid... I'd agree with the newspapers.

Edited for spelling mistakes


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Jess T
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 02:56 Edited at: 21st Jul 2005 02:58
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Quote: "I was more interested to know what the majority of kids are like at your schools"


At school... Every other kid in grades 8 to 10 skips class ( this is of course excluding the higher-level classes, which I'm proud to say I was in ).
Those who made it past grade 10 into 11 and 12 ( you can optionally leave after 10... but it means that you become a no-good bum without a job for the rest of your life ) are pretty good - I'd say 90% of them are straight flyers, and those that aren't, the school treats them like employee's in a way, and literally tells them to p*ss off, as they're screwing up the education for the rest of us
Most of the younger ones in Grade 7 ( average age is 11-12 ) are pretty straight flyers, except for the handfull that have been "bad-asses" all their lives, who are also the same ones that corrupt the other kids by the time grade 8 comes around.

Once you head down one of those paths, and grow up thinking it's all ok, and everything's sweet, it's next to impossible to fix up your life... Aint no going back to the Light side of the force for them!

[EDIT]
Forgot to add;
At Uni... It's not necessarily the brightest people only, but it's those who have a head on them and want to go somewhere in life.
Most "teenage" activity has pretty much either been done, or is of no interest to anyone, given that the average age is about 22 to 23...
[/EDIT]

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empty
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 03:10
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Quote: "Hip-hop just sucks, I mean if it wern't for getting arrested/drunk/high half of the artests wouldn't be selling albums"

And that hasn't happened before Hip-Hop (artists being arrested, drugged [!] etc)? Escapades like those have been part of the pop music scene since... well... since ever.


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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 03:33
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The peeps at my school just don't give a sh*t. Nothing else to say really.


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Perokreco
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 07:38
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Quote: " My kids are 18 mths, 6 and 8. They have 2 parents, married. They are already a handful, and very hard work.

Without 2 very stressed parents who actually care about what they do and don't do, explaining the rights and wrongs, they could very easily become thugs. However hard it is, we keep them in check, whilst still letting them develop into their own characters and experiencing life to the full...for their age. They don't watch 18 certificate films, like some of their friends, and at 8 years old my eldest gets to play football and racing games, not blood 'n' guts shoot 'em ups."


I think that is totally wrong to blame games for misbehaved kids.I speak from my example.First time i sat at computer was when I was 3 years old, my dad put me a game for me to learn alphabet.I played Wolfstein 3d and Duke Nukem around 6 watched violent movies as long i can remember.And how i turned out.I am a minor so it is illegal to say how old i am but i go to high school.Most of kids i know only go out listen folk music and dont worry about school.I have excellent grades in school programm games, run wargeme on the net, watch Discovery and have contact with many schools outside my country because I want to go away from my crappy country.And also i am pacifist and never had a fight in my whole life.But i play GTA Far Cry and watch 18+ movies.So computers and movies had opposite effect then most people think they do.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 07:56
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Quote: "I think that is totally wrong to blame games for misbehaved kids.I speak from my example.First time i sat at computer was when I was 3 years old, my dad put me a game for me to learn alphabet.I played Wolfstein 3d and Duke Nukem around 6 watched violent movies as long i can remember.And how i turned out.I am a minor so it is illegal to say how old i am but i go to high school.Most of kids i know only go out listen folk music and dont worry about school.I have excellent grades in school programm games, run wargeme on the net, watch Discovery and have contact with many schools outside my country because I want to go away from my crappy country.And also i am pacifist and never had a fight in my whole life.But i play GTA Far Cry and watch 18+ movies.So computers and movies had opposite effect then most people think they do."

You probably have good parents, which is important. However, for the people with bad parents, I think games have more of an effect. I'm not really saying games turn kids into anarchists, but it gives them ideas. Obviously this isn't the games' fault though, its the parents.


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BenDstraw
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 09:16
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Personally I believe that the child himself is to blame and/or his friends he hangs around with. Kids do stupid things because their friends make it look fun and make seem justified. A parent could try as hard as they can to be good parents but fail to make a good child(though I beleive could parenting is important to prevent these behaviors). One thing I dont get about people is they always blame something else(ex. the music, the generation, video games) I dont get it how could those really effect anything. The Child has mind of his own he makes decisions according to him. As a Teenager Ive done some
not so honest things I wouldnt tell my grandma, but I did those cause they seemed fun or a friend made them seem fun for me to do. My parents arent crapy idols, I live in a upper middle class family. Ive played some violent games and watched some of the most violent movies but ive never killed or assulted someone.

In conclusion(kinda sound smart right now )
There are bad kids there are good kids. Good parenting helps. Better enviroment helps more. but the kid himself and the kid alone must decide how hes going to live his life.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 12:00 Edited at: 21st Jul 2005 12:01
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It all basiclly relys on common sense and proper judgment then?

Because ultimatly, what the person is going to make of himself in life, is up to him.


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Blazer
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 12:10
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I am a teenager, but I'm not a rebel. In fact I think I've only been grounded once. The decline of America in general started with the "Don't hit your kids" theory. I understand that some parents beet their kids. But there's a margin between Beating and letting us walk all over you and it's the parent's job to stay in that median (Why I'm never gonna have kids). I don't belive all this junk about T.V. and Video Games being a decline either. In fact whenever I'm angry I pop in Halo and shoot some people in the heads, its a great stress reliver for me.

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BenDstraw
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 13:07
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exacltly what im trying to say megaton cat.

I dont think hitting kids solves anything either. Grounding is a pretty bad punishment to young kids and take the keys of their car is for older kids. I do agree I dont want kids. but Its cause there such pain in the asses

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Foxy
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 13:58
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At my school, everyone is pretty laid back and friendly with each other (that may be because there is only 300 kids). All of the rebellious kids that I knew of when I was younger have seemed to shape up allright as time goes on. What I do notice is the few that are on the "wrong" road are those that get no attention from their parents, but then seemed to get that attention from their peers.

I've grown up in a household where I've allways been cared for, regardless of the situation. My mother raised me until I was about 11, due to the fact that my dad had to work away from home Mon-Fri. I have turned out fine, I'm nearly a strait-A student, I dont do any drugs, and drink very-rarely.

I'd say it's got a lot to do with the amount of attention and love given by the parents. If the parents don't care about their children then the child will look to other things for guidence (I.E. Rap artists, Games, and anyone of importance in the entertainment industry).

Well, there's my view.

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Merranvo
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 15:21
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you know... too many people say, it is the parents this parents that. Read, learn, infer. The parents have a very small influnce over the child. The child will do what the child want's and wont give a sh** about what the parent says.

Now for something else for you to consiter. Children are not blank slates when born. You can not shape their personality just by subjecting them to the "propper" things. There is the "peer pressure" issue, but those aren't the situations that shape you. It is when you do something diffrent that it actually affects you. This is the reason that old people don't seem to remeber yesterday. (I can't site the articles, just bear with)

Now even if you have the parent with the child 24/7 you get another syndrom that will cause the reverse behavior then the one you are trying to impose on the child. Being around too much amplifys qualitys you dislike, turns you into a sort of rebellious nature. Even if you managed to perficly time it all you wouldn't get a perfect result. If you censor her life, then she will be secluded from everything else.

In the end run, you need to just let kids be kids, grow like kids, and live to be better. You can start by admiting to your child that yes, I did get in trouble, I did smoke pot, I was a Hippie. Hiding truths is one step to obstructing your childs development. You are NOT a perfect role model, do not try to pressure your child into thinking that they are different because unlike "normal" people they get into trouble. And "Normal" people don't get into trouble.



Now. As for music influencing bad behavior, does learning self defense turn people into bullies? (Okay, it can go either way)

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Jeku
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 16:53 Edited at: 21st Jul 2005 16:56
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I agree with Blazer about the spanking crisis. There is no better way to enforce rules with kids. Too many modern parents are scared to death of being so-called "mean" to their kids, or so-called "beating" them because Dr. Phil told them so. There is a clear distinction between beating and spanking. It's hard love, all the way.

I also believe that some children are born, for lack of a better adjective, bad. Ask any parent that while one of their children may sleep through the night and be calm most of the time, the other one may have be a natural sh*t disturber. Tantrums from the start, things you can't control, really--- things they need to naturally grow out of.

In my old high school more than half the students smoked pot on a regular basis. There were also large amounts of gang-related activities (i.e. baseball bat fights, vandalism, and bullying). Even for someone like myself who aims to avoid physical confrontations, I had to repeatedly defend myself or my weak friends using nothing but a pair of fists. Did I mention this was a Christian school? I swear it was worse than the public schools here (at least the one I graduated from anyways).


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Killswitch
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 18:51
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A lot of this post won't make sense if your not familiar with the UK.

I also go to a Chrisitian (Catholic - there is a difference) school, and there are kids who snort coke in the bathroom at break times - but they're the minority. I'd say less than 20 kids out of 180 all together are truely 'bad' (read: will end up in prison) but the rest of us get on really well.

I'm 16, so I know people who fit a lot of the examples people have given. I consider myself to be a good kid too, as I also don't do drugs or drink (except on family occasions with my parents say so).

I think some people are misunderestimating the effect of peer pressure. I like to think that my friends and I are quite independantly minded. We're a group of very different people. I'm into heavey rock and computers where as one of my friends loves rugbey. There is no 'normal' with us so we can't make people conform to it. Other kids are so desperate to fit into the top part of the hierarchy at school that they'll do anything to impress their peers.

Bad parenting does have an effect as well, I must say. There are many parents today who will work out fortunes on their kids just so they can wear 1/4 Tonn of gold around their necks. They also seem to turn a blind eye to their kdis bad behaciour - mainly because they never hear about it.

I also happen to believe that these things go in cycles. Every time I moved up a year and a new set of year 7s came in I could see them getting worse and worse, each lot trying to outdo the last. Meanwhile my year was achieving some of the best results the school has ever had, we're expected to get 100% 5xA*-C GCSEs (for the first time ever). The last lot of year 7s were completely different, some of them were even reading Disney comics on the bus to school instead of Nuts or Zoo like the last lot of year 7s. Things will get better soon.

~It's a common mistake to make, the rules of the English langauge do not apply to insanity~
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BenDstraw
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 19:03
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Not everyone tries to impress to peers directly maybe subconciously. Cause Killswitch Im guessing you look and act similar to your friends(not in a bad way maybe you guys have the same moral code I know me and my friends do). I doubt your trying to impress your friends by having the same values are you. I guess your right for the most part though. .

Your lucky the year behind me is always getting worse no sign of getting better.

John HandCock
http://www.blacklabstudios.5gigs.com
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Dave J
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 20:18
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Quote: "Do you get fed-up with the portrayal of teenagers in the news as being socially enept criminals, or do you think it's pretty accurate?!"


Down here, I find they're portrayed as quite the opposite. Either way, there's always going to be the minority that 'misbehaves' and 'rebels', but realistically none of us can come to any sort of conclusion which justifies why this happens or what causes it. In the end, everyone's just going to take a stab at personality traits, upbringing, outside influences or their own personal theory but honestly, you all wouldn't have the slightest clue.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 23:25 Edited at: 21st Jul 2005 23:26
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Quote: "In fact whenever I'm angry I pop in Halo and shoot some people in the heads, its a great stress reliver for me."


Wow, exactly the opposite of why I play Halo...(I can't even aim straight when angry)

Quote: "Now. As for music influencing bad behavior, does learning self defense turn people into bullies? (Okay, it can go either way)"


How does learning to defened yourself make YOU a bully? If it's self defence, it won't start fights. Unless you are one of those people who's view of self-defence is to break the other person's jaw before he gets a chance to attack you.

Quote: "In my old high school more than half the students smoked pot on a regular basis. There were also large amounts of gang-related activities (i.e. baseball bat fights, vandalism, and bullying). Even for someone like myself who aims to avoid physical confrontations, I had to repeatedly defend myself or my weak friends using nothing but a pair of fists."


You've just described my school. Believe me, Christian schools are just the same. Kids are forced into dress codes all day, (Unlike my school) which drives them mad.


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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2005 00:12 Edited at: 22nd Jul 2005 00:15
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I think parents/guardians have the majority of the responsibility, seeing as a child probably spends most of their time around their parents. Friends are also a major influence, although they should be influenced by their parents as well, if someone's friend does something, then they're likely to do it as well. The media does have something to do with it, but I think the media won't really have much affect if the parents have done their job. If not told otherwise, why should a child who, saw someone on tv steal a car, drive 100 mph through the centre of town, not think that that is a normal way to behave. Especially if the person is portrayed as a hero.

People around here complain about how we're becoming overrun with "Chavs", but to be honest the worst I've ever seen any of them do is taunt people who walk past and break a few windows. Although some may be genuinely unsociable, some even though they have the same image are actually ok people. You have to pity them really. Hopefully some day they'll realise they're wasting their lives.

More tea Vicar?
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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2005 19:27
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I'm a sheltered white boy whose mommy always interrogated any new friends. I'd be scared poopless to do anything out of line lest I incur the wrath of the mommy!

Honestly though, parenting helps.


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Killswitch
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2005 20:07
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@BenDstraw

I would agree with you slighty there. My friends and I do have some similar interests but its mainly a joint sense of humor that we all share. If you saw us all together theres no way you could say thst we look the same. I mainly wear grungy black clothes while most of my friends wear more 'fashionable' gear.

~It's a common mistake to make, the rules of the English langauge do not apply to insanity~
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Dave J
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2005 21:01
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Quote: "You've just described my school. Believe me, Christian schools are just the same. Kids are forced into dress codes all day, (Unlike my school) which drives them mad."


We have dress codes down here and we're certainly not 'mad'.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
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Neofish
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2005 22:08
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Quote: "Do you get fed-up with the portrayal of teenagers in the news as being socially enept criminals, or do you think it's pretty accurate?!"

I am fed up with the opinion since my social group are quite nice to the general public, we clean up after ourselves and try to keep quiet. (Ignoring that we break lots of laws by drinking etc ) It's the chavs that come along and start fights who worsen everything. For example, at a beach party two of my friends were quite severly beaten up (they were started on by one/two drunk chavs, fought back and the chav group backed uop the drunk chavs..)...The portrayal is accurate in some senses but often the newspapers are highly wrong and make my group seem worse. I think that makes sense

Neofish

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BenDstraw
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2005 06:48
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Killswitch,
Fair enough. Most friends have similar styles to each other.

John HandCock
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SageTech
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2005 08:27 Edited at: 23rd Jul 2005 08:31
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Guess ill give my 2 cents about this, i am in school so i fit the criteria.

First of, I hate rap, not just the jiberish music, but the thugs that come with it. Honestly, I hate the people on my school basketball court who are dressed in basketball clothes and talk like they cant even speak english. They for some reason think they are somehow supperior to me becouse they can drible a ball and know the latest "50 cent rapper" song. Thease kids are the ones whom are always cuasing trouble, and i see them as a plague. Are they the ones whom are cuasing all the trouble, no! Just as many of the rock,pop,and other cliques have problems. Im just saying that most problems seem to stem from the rap clique.

Now My sister is also a rebellious teenager, the perfect specimen for this discussion. She defies all rules thrown at her, and seems to enjoy it. She always asks for money (course i like the ocasional doller as well) And acts as if she was entitled to it, though she did nothing to earn it. The group that she hangs around with always seems to be doing something wrong, and sometimes i swear i see smoke fumes coming from under her door. The only thing i hope to gos she isnt doing yet is, well uh, making hankie pankie. I agree with the statistics, todays kids are more trouble making, are more mischovis and more arogant. I dread that i have the title "teenager" every day. Hoping to god i dont become an arogant teen.

forum.Sagetechsoftware.com. Post at em' will ya?
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Keaz
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2005 09:00 Edited at: 23rd Jul 2005 09:13
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My sister was a rebelious punk rock teenager(she was pregnant and had an abortion at 14, smoked and drank and gave another child for adoption @ 16). She however today is a hardworking mother of 2 and her daughter(now a teen) learned from her mothers mistakes and will be graduating with a scholarship and honors within a year. Her son who lived with his abusive father(shot and killed by his a guy looking for his twin brother) until 2 yrs ago has now been put temporarily in a mental institution for seto-masochistic tendancies. He was a child whose enviroment was just more than he could handle, but even he is progressing. I wasn't as rebelious and my high school social life suffered (Yes, today I regret some of that).I also graduated exact last in my high school class, was the child of a single parent on welfare with two divorces. Statistics say I should prolly be incarcerated somewhere. I have a 60K per year job working only about 200 days a year. I'm a homeowner, married for over a year, have no children out of wedlock and overall seem to most like a clean cut young man. I'm 2 years from full retirement and I'm only 25 so teenage wasn't that long ago. My wife went through similarly extreme circumstances like my nephew. My wife is a tatoo artist. Many are opposed to what she does for a living(including some of my family). At one time in her life she did(past tense) experiment with drugs etc.. However her worst criminal offense she has ever been charged with was a speeding ticket. Today she is a responsible adult like myself, but yet anytime we leave Wal-Mart pass by a Border Patrol station or pass by any sort of security she is "always" (I haven't seen it not happen) closely inspected because she is a social(has tatoos and facial piercings) and racial minority(american indian). A person is strictly a product of their enviroment and their genetics. A child can learn from bad example as well as good. Rather than group children/teens/adults into categories we need to teach them they can be more than their enviroment. In the end the parents are responsible for that. As far as rap goes I enjoy some of it and don't like other pieces. I enjoy Eminem, because of his lyrical style and enven though his lyrics are offensive to some to the learned listener they will realize it is strictly satire. They don't think that kids have the ability to understand satire. Which is partial true. That is the purpose of a PG rating not to say this is ok for kids, but to say this requires "Parental Guidance" for some kids. However I don't really care for "gantsa" rap. I have been a long time rock fan.

I love the enviroment on the net. When ever "speaking" to someone on here the only thing you have to judge them by is their words and the thoughts they express. You don't no if it's 8 yr old girl in Japan or a long time encumbent Congress or Parliment official. Here we all start on a level playing field.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2005 09:36 Edited at: 23rd Jul 2005 09:43
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I still think Sage is an idiot. But I agree with what he said about the whole god damn gangsta scene.


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SageTech
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2005 10:38
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Quote: "if it's 8 yr old girl in Japan"


How did you know?

Quote: "I still think Sage is an idiot"


I arnts no dummy

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Dave J
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2005 11:06
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Quote: "I'm 2 years from full retirement and I'm only 25"





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Benjamin
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2005 12:46
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Quote: " "

Just what I was thinking.


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Jess T
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2005 14:54
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Quote: " I still think Sage is an idiot. But I agree with what he said about the whole god damn gangsta scene."


Nah, I just think he's more of an idiot now

Reminds me of this guy, Bruce... Stupid, Stupid Bruce...
He's one of those people that thinks he's great, and everyone else is out to show him up... When, in reality, there's is nothing great about him, he's annoying, and obviously had his head scewed on at an angle.

Now, THOSE kinds of people never cause any greif ( 'cept in the states where they all seem to be able to get guns and shoot people... ), but damn they're annoying

Bruce is just a strange, messed up kinda guy... I suppose that's why he's working at KFC, while I'm going to University hahaha.

Stupid Bruce

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2005 15:40
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Did you happen to replace your own name with this "Bruce"?


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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2005 15:56
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I'd like to say something, was kind of reminded of it by Keaz.

I've got a few real good friends. One of them is my coding buddy, he grew up in the same situation I did, we're a couple of polite geeks with a sense of humor and all that fun stuff. We met this other guy who lived in a neighborhood where you could walk there after school and see all the druggies at the entrance and all this. In general it was a lower class neighborhood. This friend of mine's growing up in that environment, and when I've talked to his dad he seemed a sort of immature individual. Yet I learned however that he's getting his degree to get a promotion, and my friend who is sort of immature and has a great disrespect for authority came up to me and specifically asked if I would help him study for his math test, the one thing he's struggling on.

Obviously, people are generally good, and you can't judge them by whether or not they act like a chav. I think a more common problem we should focus on is that ever since the 60's and 70's with Vietnam and Nixon younger people have gotten more involved in being rebellious and have taken it to the extreme, now many (not all of course) adults and children are growing up to be overtly self righteous. This ties back to the suing BK thing, but I really think it's bigger than that.

My friends and I were being profiled by school librarians. Many of my pals gave them crap saying, "What can they do? They're the ones harassing me, they deserved it!" Me and another guy just went and told our programming teacher that the libarians weren't letting us get on the library computers to do our programming assignments (that was the issue at hand, they thought we were hacking the network with our little 8 way array split ascii encryption) and he came in and basically told them to stop harassing us and they didn't touch us after that, but naturally everyone else was kicked out of the library for the rest of the semester. We know we have rights, but we're over using them. Angsty teens and chavs aren't the problem, the real problem, the thing that feeds them is self-righteousness.


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Dave J
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2005 17:21
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Quote: "Did you happen to replace your own name with this "Bruce"? "


ZING!


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
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