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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / DBPro programs on Xbox? Possibly.

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KillMeStupid
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Posted: 21st Feb 2003 21:02
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I'm thinking of doing such a program that compiles DBPro projects into Xbox executables(*.xbe).

I just fixed a XDK Xbox that was sold to me(80 bucks, woo), which was just a bad bios chip. Easy fix. Anyways, the development software makes it extremely easy to port, code, etc. for the Xbox. Quake took no time to port(I used a DirectX PC port of Quake), just a matter of changing a few DirectX functions and controller scheme.

DBPro programs on the Xbox sounds very nice to me, but its very ambitious. I'm not even sure if I can make it compile in xbe's, never did anything related to a compiler in my life

The release, if i ever do it, will only be in source code, since I'm not really allowed to release fully compiled Xbox applications made with the Microsoft development kit. Unless Lee can strike a deal But jokes aside, what do you all think?
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TogaMario
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Posted: 21st Feb 2003 21:43
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Tred where none have before ... ::raises hand:: i'd love it!

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Teh Missingz0rs
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Posted: 21st Feb 2003 21:45
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If it works, I just gotta put all of the 20 line games on a CD...

It's a Selecta.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 21st Feb 2003 22:38
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it would be interesting to see a compiler made to edit a win32 .exe to a winxb .xbe

should be more than possible and as the DirectX WinQuake was using DirectX6 rather than 8.1 (the native on the Xbox) then i'd say figure out a way that we can include controller support within our programs - then it'd be a VERY interesting program

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ZomBfied
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Posted: 21st Feb 2003 23:03
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Good Lord! Do it man!

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KillMeStupid
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Posted: 21st Feb 2003 23:25
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Raven: Wouldn't be too hard for the controller. Just add a few exclusive commands on the Xbox DBPro compiler for the controls. Keyboard would still work if you made the Xbox to USB adapter, which is simple to create.

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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 21st Feb 2003 23:47
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I thought we discussed this before, and deemed it un-doable. However, I guess no one had a XBox SDK tho... do you really think it's possible?

Alex Wanuch
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Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
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KillMeStupid
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 02:19
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Of course, just the right people need to take it on. I got a bunch of buds on the Xbox dev scene that can help me out anyways.

But, you could do it without the SDK, just takes tremendous amounts of work. Theres a free software SDK for the Xbox in development, and you can just slap on a mod chip on your Xbox(only way to run homebrew applications at the moment).

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 02:51
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i never said it was undoable ... i just never had the knowlage to edit the SDK in this way

i think this is really cool, but still i'd want to know the exact DirectInput mapping ... because no doubt the controller isn't quite a perfect match for the joystick commands
as long as you have that you can use the pad as a controller ... i'd setup a test program for the joystick and hid commands see what it all is

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
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CloseToPerfect
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 03:54
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I installed linux on an xbox and got it to boot up in linux, but no keyboard couldn't do anything.. They did on the Screen Savers, I just copied what they did. pretty neat tho

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 07:20
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yup linux installs on anything ... and has about the same functionalility (<< BLATENT DIG AT LINUX!! >>

this is interesting to me ... mainly because i've seen what Microsoft want for games developed on thier system - now if i can't sidestep that treading a nice thin blue line, i'd be able to offer XBox Publishing as well (^_^)

now i think that would be sweet for you guys no?

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KillMeStupid
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 07:42
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That'd be difficult.

Even though you could sell xbe's that haven't used the official dev kit, the user still has to have an Xbox that can run unsigned programs. Maybe someone could develop a simple USB device that could bypass the checking security scheme or something, but its doubtful

*notes, not saying that you think you can sell Xbox games, Raven, just informing other people of the reasons why they won't be so successful*

I'm going to study over night, see what tech i can use.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 13:24
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I'd love to see the speed at which MS's lawyers would react to someone trying to sell an X-Box game that was running un-signed code

(Not to mention the fact 99% of X-Box owners won't be able to play it!).

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
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Benjamin
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 13:43
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lol....I dont have anything relating to Xbox emulation or programming...I DO however have the dreamcast programming manual...(not helpfull methinks)

xxxpetratxxx
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Rob K
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 15:56
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Have a look at Caustik's main page - he has already written an XBE >> EXE converter and he might have tools or be able to help with EXE to XBE conversion. Failing that just install Windows 2000 or your XBOX

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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David T
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 19:05
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Well since the XB runs on a non-gui version if 2K there's no point in reinstalling it

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KillMeStupid
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 19:22
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rich: If you sell a game using libraries free of MS code, you can probably get away with it. Besides, why would they care? As you said, not many Xbox owners would be able to run it.

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KillMeStupid
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 19:59
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Darth Shader: I know of Caustik. Last time I talked to him, he said he is working on exe to xbe. If he is successful, I guess all I would have to do is develop a DLL for the Xbox game pad.

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SoulMan
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 21:46
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If they crack the code, they can't touch reverse engineering, and thus you would be able to sell your program on their equipment. Since it is a computer in itself, you can't prevent someone from writing code for it and then selling it. What could they classify it as?
By the way, if any of you want to try XBE when it's produced, just go ahead and send it my way
SoulMan

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 03:11
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perhaps it was misunderstood... the SDK kit to produce these results officially is close to the region of $250,000 for a publishing licence.

Now if i was to undertake such a cost, i'd want platform which i could actually check that the games are 100% compatible rather than giving this to a seperate company to translate them to the XBox and ask for some ridiculous ammount

So if you made a WORKING compiler, which i can personally see the results of - then i'd see the worth in the official licence.
As i've tried this myself before with a standard SDK, then i'd prefer a working version which i could translate and use myself ... you get what i mean yet?

That way could release a compiler, so that DarkBasic Pro users who want to also make XBox titles can compile them and send them to me ... then all i do is pop them in the XBox and try them out - it much easier than the current setup i have at home which is a Developer Lead attached to the back, and having to wait a good 20-30mins for the program to compile and run from memory and pass over to the XBox's HDD.

I mean as long as the code is there, i can use an official kit to translate a compiler - and then when i finally come across some decent titles worth the XBox Publisher price tag i can then get it and hopefully won't become a broke man

Still waiting though for some decent DarkBasic Pro titles to appear ... i mean over the recent months i've seen some good DarkBasic titles - one or two i'd have said have what it takes to be taken to a Retail level ... but nothing from the Professional front, not even a demo.

Early days yet though eh

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DARKGirl
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 03:20
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Well, there is always the way of skimming the fine line of legality. Think about this: if there was such a way to make DBP game compatible with the XBOX, you could sell a PC version of the game that jest happens to include the game ported to the Xbox for free.

“I create games only to test my imagination’s limits” - MSB
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 03:55
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nope couldn't do that... Microsofts lawyers would have me for breakfast for that (^_^)

however if i convert an illegal compiler (like what they're making) and compile it with an Official SDK ... not only will it work with ALL XBox's (well regionally anyways) but it'll also become a legal product

this would actually save me ALOT in R&D/Conversions ... talking in the 6-7 figure range

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
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KillMeStupid
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 05:09
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Oh, you're talking about if you got a license. . .

I understand where you're coming from.

I'm not really going to create this for sales purposes, just for fun. But if you got a valid license, I don't really care what you do with it, heh.

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DARKGirl
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 05:13
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I see...

“I create games only to test my imagination’s limits” - MSB
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 05:35
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well i know you're not... however i think it'd be a big bolster for people to want to complete games in professional if there was a publisher who could offer both Windows and XBox publishing

i mean probably start off just giving away demo versions for XBox Magazines - get the publics reaction on titles, just like the deal setup with PCGamer UK ... it allows PCGUK to have a free demo of new software and for me & brent to poke at the market something and find what they're reaction is

if its good then the title will likely hit the shops within 1-2months of published in PCGUK to the UK market, then after a month the stateside.
I mean we have a deal with Game Ltd/Eletronics Boutique - so they are full retails not just things you'll find in these backyard shops or small computer chains

if Martyn ever works on the online shop for FMTau then perhaps we might even see direct sales, but he's bitched about making it every step of the way

(^_^) still hopefully within the next month i'll have finally finished one of our inhouse projects, so that should start the ball rolling

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
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rapscaLLion
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KillMeStupid: It seems insignificant doesn't it? But microsoft is intent on sucking every drop of money from everyone, hell they are even trying to force non-IE browsers out of existance by blocking them access from MSN pages and such.

Anyway, Raven: Martyn is bitching??? Fire his ass lol jks

But seriously, I didn't know all this was possible, but it sounds damn interesting, and also slightly fishy (legal wise) to me... How bout this, you go first If microsoft doesn't squash you, I'll follow.

Alex Wanuch
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 09:07
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... lmao i would Raps ... but its so hard to find that rare breed of people who work for free, and you know the saying "you get what you pay for"

to me the legalities are quite open and simple to comprehend, and as long as i don't explain how i came across such a conversion utility (which i could always bend the truth slightly and say it was ::coughrecough::developed here) then everything should be cool (^_^)

just have to wait on the results that KMS comes up with

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Cyberheater
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 12:36
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KillMeStupid: Are you likely to release the source code for the Xbox Quake project. I would love to get my hands on that.

I really hope you do. There are a lot of modded Xbox's out there who would love to play Quake on there machine.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 17:56
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u cant sell Xbox games...

xxxpetratxxx
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Benjamin
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 17:58
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u dont have the money for a licence

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Feb 2003 00:10
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I never said i'd be the one selling them ... thats not the job of the publisher
but as i said, before i spend out the money on a licence so that i can publish them, i wanna have something tangeble that i can see the results of this.

It's a thin legal line so to speak but i can atleast package as a free demonstration for games magazines which would give me all important intel about what gamers want.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
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Kadatonic
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Hey Raven, I just may have a game for you, but it won't be anywhere near ready until about december or so since I haven't been able to work on it at all or anything since I have the unfortunate misshap of being in Kuwait right now so I can't do much of anything. I'd go into details and all, but I'm a little lazy to type too much right now, but I believe the game I'll be working on will be an awesome one. I just can't wait to get back to the states so I can start working on it again. I miss my computer so much.

--Kadatonic

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Feb 2003 01:08
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sure ... (^_^)
if you have a title i'd be happy to check it out anytime, we're not exactly super busy at FMTau right now - so most things are welcome

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Kadatonic
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A name? Hehehehe. Well if I had a name for the project I would tell you, but I am more concerned with all the conceptual work and such first. The name will come with time. Maybe let the players and all decide a name for it, who knows? But it will be a fighting game of sorts with multiplayer matches and such, and right now, we are going to concentrate on purely online gameplay right now, and offline game play will come later for it and all as I further research AI programming myself.

--Kadatonic

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Benjamin
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Posted: 24th Feb 2003 20:15
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You should try GBA programming, coz there r loads of resources and its easy to program (C++). i do it already

xxxpetratxxx
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David T
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Posted: 24th Feb 2003 21:15
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I could never get my head round GBA programming - but I suppose then I wasn't into DB, and I had this tutorial that had a gaping error in it.

A prog supplied would only accept 16-bit tga files, but the only type of tga is believe is 32-bit.

I'll give it another go.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 27th Feb 2003 01:56
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well GB programming is easy coz its writen in C, whereas GBA is done in C++. Its not much harder..

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Shadow Robert
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That is as long as you have the C/C++ Libraries to convert to Assembly ... i know ALOT of games companies, suchas Rareware which you code directly in Assembly to create your games.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
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Benjamin
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no, its all really simple. Assembly isnt though. the atari was done with assembly in mind..

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 27th Feb 2003 03:23
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... you kinda missed the point petrat
wasn't

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Shadow Robert
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... you kinda missed the point petrat
wasn't about

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Shadow Robert
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stupid blasted forum... was ment to read

"... you kinda missed the point petrat
wasn't about which is easier, but what you're more likely to end up using in a good few studios."



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Benjamin
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oh reet

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