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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / IF DBP PRODUCES 100% MACHINE CODE HOW COME...

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Terabyte
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Posted: 25th Feb 2003 15:46
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IF DBP PRODUCES 100% MACHINE CODE HOW COME YOU STILL NEED DIRECT X 8
I have a word of advice...
..don't piss on an electric fence!
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 25th Feb 2003 15:58
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Imagine it layered like a cake or something:

Top Layer - Your DBPro code (compiled into assembler where possible)
Second Layer - DirectX, handling all the calls from the Top Layer to the next layer
Third Layer - the Hardware/OS

DirectX is the interface to the hardware. You don't just simply bypass it (not with DB, Blitz, etc anyway). It's the very glue that makes your code work.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 25th Feb 2003 16:09
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they could include the entire DirectX Runtime with DarkBasic Pro if you like ... it'd be a bugger to program and the min size of all of your programs would be 42Mb + actual program size

personally i prefer the fact that your using a system runtime which is already there.

think of it like an include file for DarkBasic - DirectX is a huge library telling applications that use it howto access the Graphics Cards from standard interfaces ... so rather than packaging it everytime its installed on a system so everyone can use it

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 25th Feb 2003 23:25
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Dude, first of all, lay off on the caps lock
Second: It does produce 100% machine code, that machine code happens to use the Direct X runtime librarys, as most games do.

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
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Rob K
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Posted: 26th Feb 2003 00:34
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believe it or not there was a time before applications, which then, as now, were compiled to machine code - but they had no DirectX to rely on, and boy it was a scary time, the lists of video cards not supported by a given piece of software stretched for miles and for sound cards you had to know IRQ and be able to select the correct compatibility mode from a list of 20 crytic ones. Believe me, DirectX is A GOOD THING

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 26th Feb 2003 01:00
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I kinda liked fiddling with all the settings to get games working on my old 386 DOS 5 system, gave me a sense of achievment when a program would actually bloody start

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
[email protected] - http://www.kangaroo2.com - If the apocalypse comes, email me
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Rob K
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Posted: 26th Feb 2003 02:05
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"actually bloody start"

I know, this newcomers don't know what they are missing, the tension and suspense as you filled out the SOUND & VIDEO PROFILE screen for the 15th time and would it work ..... NOOOOO!
(said screen did not remember settings so you had to adjust all of them every time)

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 27th Feb 2003 02:27
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lol yep Then came the slightly newer games with "auto detection" that would detect something you didn't have, or worse, freeze your computer! I remember having 7 different boot disks with different copies of autoexec.bat and config.sys to load different types of memory for different games... *Ahhh* Happy days

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
[email protected] - http://www.kangaroo2.com - If the apocalypse comes, email me
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Janster
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Posted: 27th Feb 2003 02:52
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Ah yes, editing the autoexec.bat and config.sys to try and squeeze out that extra 1kb of base memory to get a game to run, ah how the eyes mist over . Considering how every other game had looked when installing and setting up back then (red and cyan DOS ascii graphics), I remember how gobsmaked I was when I first saw Command & Conquer installing.

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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 27th Feb 2003 04:15
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lol, I guess those were the dark ages before my time lol
newer games (on dos/win95 of course) had lists like that, I just picked one that looked right and never had a problem

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 27th Feb 2003 07:25
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i always liked the Amiga Ram Boot stuff - setting up the DOS SHELL so that you can utilise the different sections of ram was cool for running stuff like D-Paint and Caligari24 at the same time ... and was kinda essential that you setup a switching button

i always uses A + A + Ctrl (^_^)

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Kale
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Posted: 27th Feb 2003 12:42
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Thank God the days of fiddling with IRQ, DMA, and Ports are finally over!

What the flame does not consume, consumes the flame.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
AMD XP2100+, Geforce4Ti 4400, 512Mb DDR, Abit KX7, WinXP Home
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Janster
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Posted: 27th Feb 2003 21:30
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"lol, I guess those were the dark ages before my time lol
"

Yes I am a bit of an old warhorse, heres the specs of my first PC (remebering that it was a pretty top flight machine at the time):
286 at 10Mhz
20MB hard drive
640K base memory with 2MB above-board expansion
12" visible screen monitor
800x600 SVGA at 256 colours
Cost £1300!!!

Stop laughing at the back!

"Now that it's done,
I've begun to see the reason why we are here.."
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 27th Feb 2003 21:41
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wow 10Mhz 286... that was a damn'd speed demon

remember my first PC 8088 4mhz, 256kb Cirrus Video Card, 10mb hdd (when they still came in either, industrial brick, or super heavy industry brick sizes ) 5.25" FDD, 12" Green&Black Monchrome monitor... oh and a huge 512kb of RAM
and i had MS-DOS 3.0

think it cost in the region of £600
sound cheap? not for '84 it wasn't ... was the price of a bloody mini that was

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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BoB Vila
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Posted: 27th Feb 2003 22:04
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My first computer was the Texas Instrument Home Computer, it was more like a console then a computer though.. then I got a C64.. and woo the apple IIIc... And actually, everything ran find on them.. I don't think things really got out of hand until the 386s were in full swing and all the new devices.. sound cards, modems and what not started hitting the shelves with no support. For some reason everyone wanted to use IRQ5.

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 00:30
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I had a C64 first, followed by an Amiga, Archimedies A3010, RiscPC and finally a PC.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Janster
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 03:15
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Now if your talking first COMPUTERS rather than PC's, my first real computer was a Texas Instruments ti-99/4a some time around '81 I guess. Complete with a massive 16kb I was amazed to find out later that it was infact 16 bit making it probably (guessing here) the first 16 bit home computer! Prior to that I had a Phillips Videopac game console, the one with the membrane keyboard. I did get the "programming" cartridge for it which was laughably, for someones first attempt at programming, machine code! LMAO! I only realised recently while noticing the similarity in the cartridges in a photograph that the Videopac was infact a re-badged Magnavox Odessey2. Post the ti-99/4a I went Acorn Electron, Sinclair 48K Spectrum (rubber key of course), Sinclair 128K Spectrum (original black one with the heatsink, still have this boxed and mint), Atari 520ST and then on to my various powers of PC. "Old" stuff I later collected includes 4 Amigas, a mint boxed original soap bar C64 and plenty of "retro" consoles to go along with all the new ones.

"Now that it's done,
I've begun to see the reason why we are here.."
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indi
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 03:36
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Texas Instruments ti-99/4a
with the 48k rom cartridge
and the speech synthesis
and tunnels of doom

ahh hours of fun

http://www.lunarpixel.com

http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
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Janster
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 05:24
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More of a Parsec man myself, hang on... this thread has gone WAAAAYYYY off topic, LOL, fun though

"Now that it's done,
I've begun to see the reason why we are here.."
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Benjamin
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 10:15
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a computer is a PC. maybe ur getting mixed up with consoles...?

xxxpetratxxx
B. R. W
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 12:27
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(compiled into assembler where possible)

Is there a case where it won't be then ?

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 12:59
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The core of your code (i.e. the program that YOU write) is compiled into assembler. But the function calls (i.e. "load object" or "play music") are written in C++ in most cases, hence my comment.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
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Rob K
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 17:52
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"The core of your code (i.e. the program that YOU write) is compiled into assembler. But the function calls (i.e. "load object" or "play music") are written in C++ in most cases, hence my comment."

It is also worth mentioning that the actual game or at least the 3D engine appears to work INSIDE the DLLs??? - For example if you suspend the main executable, nothing happens and the game continues to run, but if you suspend any of the DLLs then the program stops. For any other program if you suspend the main executable then the program stops as well.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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Rob K
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 17:53
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"3D engine appears to work INSIDE the DLLs???"

sorry, badly explained, I know that 3D functions are called from the DLLs.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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EdzUp
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Posted: 1st Mar 2003 11:23
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Windows programs basically make calls to windows to allow for the infamous Alt+Tab etc, if a program doesnt do this windows automatically sets it to 'stop responding' after a while and shuts it down manually (thats the idea anyway it most of the time dies still you Ctrl+Alt+Delete shut the program down).

Most games and programming languages compile to machine code BUT the windows calls remain, DBPro/Blitz has calls to Direct X to provide the 3d interface etc these require windows and as a follow on so your program requires windows.

If you write your own 3d engine in straight C/C++ which is 100% portable and as fast as DirectX 9 and has as many features you would make millions from it and finally you could have true portability, OpenGL goes some way to this but IMHO not far enough.

-EdzUp
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