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3 Dimensional Chat / My First Character Model

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RUCCUS
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Posted: 18th Dec 2005 20:16 Edited at: 18th Dec 2005 20:16
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I got tired of using boxes as players in the game Im making so I decided to get to modeling, I've never done actual "people" before, Im more of a map kind of person. The guys head is supposed to be big, its a cartoonish style, here's some concept drawings from a long time ago:



Ive changed the design a bit but otherwise Ive tried to stick to it as close as possible. The game is based in winter, basically a big snowball fight. I'm still working on adding some mits and possibly a scarf, but this is the general look, here's where I'm at now with the model:



I think thats a pretty low polycount but Im not sure, I never really get far enough in games to use full blown models

Feel free to post any comments or critisism,

- RUCCUS.

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RUCCUS
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Posted: 18th Dec 2005 22:49 Edited at: 18th Dec 2005 22:59
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I fixed up the character a bit, added mittens and re-did the feet to be seperate objects for easier animation. Other than that I put some smoothers on that jacked up the poly count quite a bit but the smoothed model will only be used in pictures, without any smoothing the character is about 633 polygons. Oh and I also elongated the arms.



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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th Dec 2005 23:41
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looks kewl, has a nice style dude, just need to wait for texture and animation now, good first go on characters, but unfortunately I don't know what your modelling history is like

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Zedane
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Posted: 18th Dec 2005 23:52
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What did you make this in? Looks Pretty nice, and as seppoku said the style is awesome. Kinda reminds of calvin and hobbes.


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RUCCUS
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Posted: 19th Dec 2005 00:26 Edited at: 19th Dec 2005 00:29
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Thanks for the comments, I did the model in Wings 3D. I would usually use 3ds max but it isnt on my computer, however Im becoming more and more of a wings fan.

As far as my modeling history goes... I did some crappy cars a few years ago with way too many polies for their quality (but I didnt know what polies were back then ), and I made some other random things like spaceships but thats pretty much it...Oh and those models of mods around the DBP boards Im not sure if anyone remembers that. Mostly I just model maps though.

My only problem is that I have no clue how to texture things, I dont even know how to apply textures in wings. All I know is how to texture things in DB, but I cant make the textures in the firstplace so that doesnt help. Its not that Im not a skilled enough graphics artist, its just I dont know how to get the mesh layout to draw the skins on. Ive downloaded Lithunwrap but it hasnt been a help to me at all, another problem Im facing is DB textures each limb seperately when you use texture object (so if I had the complete texture of the character and I used texture object on the model, it would texture each limb; the arm, the snowboard, the head, everything, with the character texture seperately. Im not sure how to fix that (however in this model the only limbs are the feet and the hat so maybe I should look into the texture limb command...I think theres a command like that).

Anyways yeah thanks for the comments.

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Insanity Complex
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Posted: 19th Dec 2005 01:57 Edited at: 19th Dec 2005 01:58
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Aha! textures in wings. Have you used Materials? Of course...that's not really textures so...it would be nice how to apply real textures.


[edit] oh, and the model looks, great, just needs hands. lol

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dab
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Posted: 19th Dec 2005 10:27
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The older versions of wings don't have the ability to apply textures I believe. I think the newest one can though. ??


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Wiggett
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Posted: 19th Dec 2005 12:48
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too smooth and shiny for me, hopefuly with textures that will make it look better. otehrwise shape and concept art wise its pretty good work.

http://www.angelfire.com/wizard2/spacerecon/index.html
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Insanity Complex
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Posted: 19th Dec 2005 14:57 Edited at: 19th Dec 2005 15:01
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W3D untextured stuff is very very shiny.

Quote: "I think the newest one can though. "


I have the newest stable release of it.(0.98.32a) But you may be able to apply textures in the developement release? (0.98.32b)

[edit] oh and RUCCUS, when and if you go to render it, get YafRay or something to render with, because W3D internal renders suck. (they look the same rendered as they do in the work panel, and nothing can really be done without YafRay, etc plugins. But it's also difficult to use YafRay sometimes because you can't go back and edit materials without using the hidden-and unknown to me until I used YafRay tutorial-outliner window. (it is accessed through the window menu at top ) But YafRay is the way to go with W3D renders in my opinion.

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dab
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Posted: 20th Dec 2005 05:29
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Where do I get it? I use wings also. It's a very good program. You're right. W3D renderer sucks.


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Insanity Complex
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Posted: 20th Dec 2005 15:28 Edited at: 20th Dec 2005 15:29
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you can get YafRay at http://www.yafray.org

Oh, and when you go to install it, go to the wiki YafRay site and use the tut...matter of fact, I'll go find the exact urls for everything, back in a second.

Raise your god again, they don't give a damn. (Coal Chamber)
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Manic
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Posted: 20th Dec 2005 22:33
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forget about the smoothing, leave it without, also, you've got lots of polys with more than 4 sides, you need to address those by rearranging your edges.

also, your arms will need more loops to make them deform properly


good effort tho

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Insanity Complex
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Posted: 21st Dec 2005 00:54 Edited at: 21st Dec 2005 00:59
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Quote: "forget about the smoothing, leave it without, also, you've got lots of polys with more than 4 sides"


If you're reffering to the top left, top middle, and bottom left images, they look to be from quick smoothed preview, and the polys arent acurate models of what the polygons actually are.


[EDIT]

YafRay & Wings tutorial- http://wiki.yafray.org/bin/view.pl/UserDoc/Wings3DMihnea

YafRay download- http://www.yafray.org/index.php?s=2

Raise your god again, they don't give a damn. (Coal Chamber)
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RUCCUS
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Posted: 21st Dec 2005 02:37
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Yes the images are from the quick smoothed preview they arent smoothed for the in-game models.

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Insanity Complex
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Posted: 21st Dec 2005 05:18
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Quote: "Yes the images are from the quick smoothed preview they arent smoothed for the in-game models"


Doesn't matter, quick smoothed preview doesn't show the "real" polygons anyway. You have to smooth as normal to see the real polys.

Raise your god again, they don't give a damn. (Coal Chamber)
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s0l1dsnak3123
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Posted: 21st Dec 2005 19:20
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real good character you made there. What tuts did you use (if at all) to build him?

http://www.myfilestash.com/userfiles/s0l1dsnak3123/PNABJL.png

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RUCCUS
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Posted: 21st Dec 2005 23:09
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None, just practise. Thanks.

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new programmer
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2005 18:51
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is it that i SUCK at modeling? is it that i use truespace 3.2? what is it ?
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Zedane
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 00:11
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Yep, one thing i would like to know is how you built the neck, i can make most things in wings, but that neck is beyond me. It would be awesome if i could make both the models and the code for my games one day.


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RUCCUS
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 00:51
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Not too hard...

Basically lets say for arguments sake the body is a sphere, sine the top of the body is pretty much a sphere anyways...

I chose the vertex that was at the very top of the object
Beveled the vertex to the maximum possible
Extruded the newly created face to the required distance.

In the first version instead of beveling I used the bridge command to make a bridge between the neck and the head but that made the two objects attatch which isnt too good for animating.

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Zedane
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 01:13
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yep cool thanks. Ill be sure to try it, although right now im trying to learn how to build a space ship of some sort (tutorials for wings are soo hard to find (good ones anyway))


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RUCCUS
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 01:47
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Something like this?




Thats my very first wings model, I could possibly write a tutorial on making something similar, if I remember how...

Oh bleep, I just remembered about the newcommers guide to creating FPSs! Ahh! Cant believe I forgot, gotta get back to work on it!

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Zedane
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 02:14
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Haha (guide to fps), Nice ship. My model looks something like this (made in wings, i just use truespace to convert and color)


I still need to find a way to texture the ship with actual textures so that it looks neat. But i have no idea where to go for actual texturing.

I think for my next model i will make a charecter similar to yours (i based him off of Calvin). Eaither that or another ship for my starfox game (which now looks like crap compared to hypernova)

C&C is apperciated.


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Insanity Complex
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 03:47
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That's a nice ship right there RUCCUS

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Zedane
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 04:46
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i made this in about 1 hour, and im halfway through getting him animated.

I box modelled him, but i based him off of your charecter, and the charecters from animal crossing.

500 polys.


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RUCCUS
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 14:49 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2005 14:51
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Lookin good. If only I had my 3ds max down here

Just one thing...I dont quite see the resemblance of a ship in your model... Maybe its just the angle but to me it looks like...well not a ship I dunno what it looks like , porbably just me though.

Quote: "That's a nice ship right there RUCCUS"


Yes but unfortuanetely far too high of a poly count for what its worth.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 15:37
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@Zedane, not much of a fan of your ship model, no offense, but wings doesn't look quite like your sort of thing, but I like the animal crossing sort of character, meaning you'll have to texture it

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RUCCUS
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 16:44
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I think im going to turn this thread into all of my models, Ill just post my models as I create them until te thread dies or gets locked I guess.

Here's my latest, the character was for the noobs revenge on anjl but hes too high poly plus they found a better modeler but Im still going to use him with my own projects, I modeled the horse just recenlty I think its pretty good seeing as I didnt have any concept art just a picture of a horse, well...thats concept are in a way but whatever Here it is:



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Zedane
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 17:15 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2005 17:18
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Very Nice stuff. Do you mind if i post some of my models here also?
By the way ruccus that ship was made just doing random extrudes right after i got wings on my computer. I think i consider the animal crossing guy my real first model. Does any one know how to actually texture my charecter, with images so i can put in a shirt and stuff?

How many poly's is your knight?

@Sepokku btw wings isnt my thing. I know that, but since every time i get in a team and stuff, i have to rely on other people to make models for us to continue. Thats why i want to "Make" Wings my thing so that i could do both sides of a game.


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RUCCUS
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 17:21
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I guess not, it isnt too hard to create a new topic containing your models but if you really want to then go ahead lol

Knight has 356 Poly's
Horse has 1446 Poly's

I havent really concentrated on reducing the polycount though, especialy with the horse, when i go to use it in a game I will though.

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Zedane
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 17:37 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2005 17:41
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http://www.goddysey.com/ - really easy to use animating tool. Its an early version so it only comes with a prebuilt human skeleton. but you can build your own easily.

Haha yea, but my models suck. But okay next model i'll make my own


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new programmer
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Posted: 24th Dec 2005 02:55
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u guys using wings3D? i'm trying to get it to work, but all i can do is stpuid squares and stuff.

is 3DC any good???
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RUCCUS
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 18:46
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Here's a wip of my master chief model, just working on the head right now;



131 Polygons.

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new programmer
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 20:35
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nice! what if bungie sold it's master cheif model............................................................ man that'd rock!!!

maybe even the halo 1 master cheif model.
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Insanity Complex
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Posted: 30th Dec 2005 02:42
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Quote: "nice! what if bungie sold it's master cheif model............................................................ man that'd rock!!!

maybe even the halo 1 master cheif model. "


Then the fun and challenge of recreating it would become pointless and not any fun anymore because people would insult your poor attempt at the model when you can just go buy it. Honeslty...making your own models rock, you just have to put in effort and it's the best feeling in the world to finish.

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Krimzon DestinE
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Posted: 30th Dec 2005 05:02
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RUCCUS you are extremely talented. I admire you.
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RUCCUS
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Posted: 30th Dec 2005 16:05
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Just a little update before I go out for a bit, added that design on the chief's visor to the model (I know I could've just textured it but It looks cool as part of the model and I suck at texturing ), other than that I made the top of the head a little more round and fixed a few things here and there.



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BiggAdd
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Posted: 30th Dec 2005 17:02
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Realy nice models!


Truly Magical!
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IanG
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Posted: 30th Dec 2005 21:42 Edited at: 30th Dec 2005 21:43
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you know the model made by bungie uses normal maps for the visor

i've attached a pic showing the different models and maps

from left to right,

wire, smooth mesh, normal map applied to smooth, texture and normal map



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RUCCUS
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Posted: 30th Dec 2005 22:58
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I was looking for that I remembered seeing it on the concept art or renders or something on bungie.et..

I dont know how to use normal maps, I've heard them but paid no attention. Im assuming its similar to bump maps where certain parts are raised...


If anyone can point me to some information explaining normal maps thatd be great, does anyone know if 3DS.Max or Wings 3D allows the use of normal maps?

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Snipa Masta
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Posted: 30th Dec 2005 23:57
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Normal maps are commonly reffered to as 3 dimensional bump maps. They contain a red, green and blue channel - each of which represents the X, Y, and Z co-ordinates of that point. So not only can things be defined by the Y axis (up/down), as with a regular bump map, but they can also contain information on their position in the X and Z. This is why it's used to on characters to add detail, as it corresponds to light in the same way as the high poly version.

3d Studio Max 7+ supports Normal Maps in rendering and can also generate them, but I severely doubt Wings3d does.

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Manic
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Posted: 31st Dec 2005 00:26
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http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=129627

that should explain most things

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RUCCUS
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Posted: 31st Dec 2005 02:00
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Thanks for the link it's helped a bit.

Just an update on how the models coming + a small screeny;

Ive began working on the chest. Im trying to match each triangle to the mesh model Manic provided and believe me, it takes a long time

Here's a screen of the progress, if you look at both pic's and compare them you can see the mesh looks quite like the original (though somewhere in there I added an extra face which kind of jumbled everything up for a bit but I got it back to normal).



Im also going to restart on the head since now that I've looked at the mesh I can see its not even close, I was basically going by the picture on the game book the game came with

Hope to post back soon with more updates,
- RUC'

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Dodic
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How many of you are working with faces ?

and which do you think (all) is the best way : nurbs , vertex edit-mesh edit in max , face ,...? for game models creating?

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RUCCUS
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I personally dont know what any of those are, I dont know the technique I use but I guess the best way to describe it is I do a sort of layering when I model. Kind of like those puzzles that have a bunch of disks that you stack to make a 3d object, and each disk is a different size, I do that except I extrude upwards for the next layer.

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Dodic
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well nurbs and others are just techniques for mesh editing , vertex editing , and face editing that is becouse nurbs is a full moddeling tehnique , in nurbs you "draw" your model , or parts for it , you dont edit anything, and in face editing and vertex editing , you firstly make a box or some primitive , little scale it to be toller , or wider or whatever be be a little like your object , and then you set a little more polygons for that box (set them on start) and then you just edit the polygons , and that`s how you moddel..

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RUCCUS
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Well im done for tonight, I got quite sloppy near the top of the torso but it looks alright, Ill probably end up deleting alot of the top half and redoing it sometime tomorow but we'll see. I added the head just so get an idea of how it'll look at I must say its pretty cool. Without further adue here's the latest screeny;



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Dodic
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Posted: 31st Dec 2005 11:58
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it`s good for now

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IanG
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Posted: 31st Dec 2005 12:30
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that is one good looking mesh

Quote: "How many of you are working with faces ?

and which do you think (all) is the best way : nurbs , vertex edit-mesh edit in max , face ,...? for game models creating?"


stay away from nurbs(non-uniform rational B splines) as they create really high poly stuff, they are good for creating organic models for vis, but for games don't touch them

when i'm modelling in max, i tend to drop an edit poly modifier on to the object(i don't convert them to edit poly) and use faces for most of it, with some tweaks in vertex mode and occasionally edge mode

before you ask i tend to start from either boxes or cylinders for most of my models


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Manic
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Posted: 31st Dec 2005 13:56
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eh? i didn't provide a picture, i provided a link!

Dodic: Personally, i use box modelling for bodys/limbs, basically moving verts into the right places, making sure your edge loops match up properly, making sure they match the flow of the body. I extrude or chamfer more polys as necessary.

for the face and some parts of the torso, i use box modelling again, but add detail using the cut tool.

the key thing to remember is reference, if you have good reference material, you'll find it much harder to go wrong

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