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Geek Culture / "companies"

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LLX
21
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Joined: 17th Feb 2003
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Posted: 9th Mar 2003 03:30
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Why is it that
"if you program it, they will form a company"
I've see companies come and "recruit staff" some claiming to pay, others not, on Quake mod forums, homeworld mod forums, RPG 2k forums, and justabout any forum that has scripting. When do these people learn that your not a company until you get a LLC, INC, or CO, untill that your just "a group of individual who aspire to become a company" like me I mean i actually run a bussiness designing websites and doing other MISC tasks (cd copying, label design) and was the Ex-Producer on a 56 minute short fill filmed in 35 MM but i don't call myself a company, i do call myselfa CO though cause well i am Cheif of Operations, but when you add the company label you are just tooting your own horn in the dark.
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Shadow Robert
21
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 9th Mar 2003 04:28
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you meant like FMTau Labs LLC?
... you don't actually need a designation as such after the name to make you an official company - just really need to be registered.

However i do see your point, and those companies that do offer cash for work ... i can bet your top dollar they're not paying Tax like real companies do (hense not a real company)

but really who cares if they wanna pretend or not?
its not like i've ever seen one of these "companies" last long enough to actually develop anything ... only the development teams finish work - the companies never have but thats just a personal observation

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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LLX
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Posted: 9th Mar 2003 04:34
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my point exactly, don't call yourself a company until you have some product, any product, a 3d render toothbrush will do as long as your in the "3D Toothbrush Modelers Company" But if your a game company you need something different, not sure what though.

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John H
Retired Moderator
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Joined: 14th Oct 2002
Location: Burlington, VT
Posted: 9th Mar 2003 04:51
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I call us a 'group'

Current - RPG: Eternal Destiny
http://www.halbrosproductions.netfirms.com
Dont ask those questions! Read the help files lazy! Oh ya, and Tat has a plugin for that!
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Shadow Robert
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 9th Mar 2003 04:51
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yeah ... well until you actually have something to offer, you're not a company.

FMTau is only a real company because its predcessor was, as myself and Brent made CGR/FMVs commercially along with webserver application programming (no two guesses for who did what) - annoyingly alot of out money was spent on updating our products for the new clientel and eventually we called it quits on the buisness when we were making close to zero profit

but even after 6years, we're still kinda alive (more so than Amiga is anyways hehee)
right now there's three area's to it - Software Application Development - Game Development - Publisher

although publisher is still really an "setup" state, and alot of the technology within out Apps division is being used by a rival (well kinda, can't really be a rival with a mate ) company.

Games Development should be interesting over the comming months ... as personally i wanna go back to school and i want to get a degree in something (hopefully my friends will help me with this as i'm useless getting myself setup) - however before i do so i've made a promise to make sure that we release ATLEAST 1 sucessful game on any medium.

god but i've gotta update the site, get a new server for the site, sell my stateside apartment, buy a new one somewhat in the UK, etc... (the list is extensive)

but your point is very valid ... and its not a case of already having a beta done with software - you must have atleast ONE piece of software published before you can take on a company title, because its based on services render'd. And you've not actually rendered a service to anyone developing a technology demonstration

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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LLX
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Posted: 9th Mar 2003 05:02
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well tobad you on im LA their this guy here teaching lightwave classes and the final exam is to make a MMORPG

well a MMO War game unless your a chicka then its a MMO Fashion Show.

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indi
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 9th Mar 2003 05:54
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how much is it to purchase a new company or a shelf company in the states?

http://www.lunarpixel.com

http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
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LLX
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Posted: 9th Mar 2003 05:56
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depend most companies dont sell themselfs for less then a few hundred thousand minimum...now becoming a company is somethign different

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 9th Mar 2003 06:47
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shelf companies usually start at the $75k mark ... but it depends on what their trade and profit margin is, even more if they have shares. No matter how worthless they are ... however they can be bought out an entirely different fashion then.

registering a company is a matter of a few hundred dollars though ... less if you can prove your profit margin is >$100,000 or something around there

and if your >$300,000 they have a small business grant

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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indi
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Posted: 9th Mar 2003 16:35
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shelf companies usually start at the $75k mark ...

Im not refering to a sale of a profitable company.

lol a shelf company here is one that is insolvent and is cheaper than a new company but u incurr the debt.


sounds like u have no idea what im refering to here



registering a company is a matter of a few hundred dollars though ...
less if you can prove your profit margin is >$100,000 or something around there


its $1000 to register a company here and theres no profit margin to meet before u can buy one. You do however need a director.

http://www.lunarpixel.com

http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 9th Mar 2003 18:37
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My brother and I are 'Banshee Studios' and have been since the days of the Spectrum (Banshee Software). It gives us a brand name that all our games can be recognised from, from our first Spectrum game Lost in the Woods, our Amiga titles Music Player and Space Corps and our latest PC offerings.

Some folk can remember we've been around for a long time and I like to keep that branding. However we are not a registered company.

Are we wrong - by your definition - to continue to do this? We're just in it for the fun - but we have a long history with computer software and a long standing (albeit minor) brand name.

We've certainly never pretended to offer huge amounts of cash, infact in a discussion with a potential team member about pay I recently said, 'yeah we could sell it commercially - we might make £50 if we are really lucky.'

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
God made the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
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Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 9th Mar 2003 18:39
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you mean a bankrupcy company? becuase usually the companies in the states and UK who dont' turn profits always borrow more to recover the deficit until it too late... and oftenly the banks forclose them and the companies designations and copyrights are revoked.

you can buy them out before this happens or rather "takeover" - but usually they demand unreasonable ammounts for what they believe the company is worth and its far cheaper to wait until they go bankrupt, and just pick up the employee's and technology they owned for far less

indi it is quite different from country to country what i takes to become a registered company ... i mean take DG for example - he registered his for something like $50 and is getting income support for his.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 9th Mar 2003 18:46
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Pneu thats oki because you're not exactly turning major profit or anything ...
if you were on the other hand turning over in the hundreds of thousands of profit per title - then THAT would be wrong cause you'd be evading the tax which all companyies have to pay.

but there is a different between 30% of £50 and 30% of £175,000 (a Quake3 engine licence)
i'm hopeing if/when you choose to develop high-end games then you'll want to register the company and provide your fair share for the countries economy which goes back to helping other companies that are just starting out

personally i can see why smaller companies decide not to register themselves - i mean anyone who's messed about witha tax invoice and worked with the IRS to get themselves all setup for a primary evaluation etc... will know its nither fun nor and easy task (and quite expensive if you use an accountant)

but even still - you're still providing a service Pneu, you've finished games and they are out in the public - be them free or for a few pounds
and at the end of the day it sounds more like a hobby to you guys rather than anything you care to do fulltime

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Kangaroo2
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Joined: 26th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 9th Mar 2003 19:44
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I'm a registered sole-trader and do work for various registered companies. I'm currently deciding whether to publish my products through other major companies, or invest a lot and try and do it myself. I am currently on various management and accounting courses so that I may fully understand, calculate and pay all relevant taxes etc I think what Raven said about doing thngs by the book is right, our tax is there to help others start (Although 40% tax after £100,000 is bl**dy steep, good job there are certain ways round it )

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
samjones@kangaroo2.com - http://www.kangaroo2.com - If the apocalypse comes, email me
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