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DLL Talk / NGC v4.01 Released!

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nuclear glory
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Posted: 11th Mar 2006 09:09
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First off, a note about v3, if you have not already read this:
http://www.nuclearglory.com/emails/ngc_v401/03_10_2006.php

v4 of the plugin IS AVAILABLE now (DBP package only - at the time of this writing). It was rebuilt from the ground up. It's 50% faster before octrees and static meshes, more accurate, and very stable.

The release notification actually went out yesterday (March 10th). I've been working on the Blitz3D and DarkSDK releases in the meantime. Thought I would give everyone here a heads up so you don't get too disgruntled with us.

Demo links will be posted later. We'll be coming here from time to time (at least once daily) to make sure everyone is taken care of.

v2.03 users will be contacted once the other wrapped pacakges are done. If you are a v2.03 user and want to upgrade to v4 just give me a shout.

Lead Programmer/Director
Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
Lightwave Scene Exporter to .X also at: http://www.nuclearglory.com
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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 11th Mar 2006 11:57
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Quick question: if I purchase NGC 4 dbpro, will I get the DGSDK version for free once it gets released, or will that be a completely different product and so needs to be purchased separately?

I have vague plans for World Domination
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nuclear glory
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Posted: 11th Mar 2006 12:47
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The DarkSDK version is packaged with our C++ version and that package goes for $29.95.

The standard basic package (all BASICs included) goes for $24.95.

So, to upgrade from the basic package to the C++ package is only a $5 charge.

You can also just purchase the C++ package if you like (it includes the BASICs package with it). The C++ package is not yet available in our storefront, but when it is the $5 upgrade will also be made available there.

So...

You can purchase the BASIC package now, and just pay the extra $5 when the DarkSDK version comes out.

Or, you can wait until the C++ package comes out and pay the full $29.95 at once.

Either way it's the same price to you.

Lead Programmer/Director
Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
Lightwave Scene Exporter to .X also at: http://www.nuclearglory.com
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Willie Mundermuffin
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Posted: 11th Mar 2006 22:47
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Has anyone used the plugin yet? Working good? Any problems? Great beyond belief? Just wondering?

,Jared

"I would rather attempt something big and fail than to never attempt anything at all." -Pastor Michael Youseff
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nuclear glory
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Posted: 11th Mar 2006 23:54 Edited at: 11th Mar 2006 23:54
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This guy here has tested it:
http://www.nuclearglory.com/php-bin/forums/view_topic.php?id=397&forum_id=3&page=2

His frame rate multiplied by 10 when he upgraded to v4.01 from v2.03

(to 250 FPS up from 25 FPS)

We've been trying to claim a modest 50% increase so people don't get too bug eyed. But in many cases, the load is reduced so much the FPS rate launches way up.

Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
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x1b
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Posted: 12th Mar 2006 02:24
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I honestly cant say ive seen any FPS increase at all. But it works, so im happy.


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nuclear glory
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Posted: 12th Mar 2006 03:42
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It will depend on what you're using it for. Most things involving meshes will be a lot faster.

Also, try adding more to your level to collide with. See how much longer it takes to drive down the FPS than it would with v2.03. If you don't notice FPS jumping up, you should notice that it's still harder to drive it down (since octrees keep the load way down).

Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 12th Mar 2006 04:38
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How much speed increase you get will also depend on how much of your slow down was actually collision.

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spooky
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Posted: 14th Mar 2006 14:18
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I've downloaded the updates but haven't got any need for it at present.

Got so many other games and apps half finished that it will probably be Christmas before I look at it!

Boo!
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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 14th Mar 2006 14:43
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And if you bought the C++ 3.0 Edition...do I get the C++ 4.01 for DGSDK free?

-This...is my boomstick!
Support your local Riker 9 Chapter.
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nuclear glory
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Posted: 14th Mar 2006 21:39
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In the last 24-48 hours I've had my head buried in the NGC. Trying to crank up the speed (of raycasting mostly) to be able to hold up against Sparky's plugin.

Quote: " And if you bought the C++ 3.0 Edition...do I get the C++ 4.01 for DGSDK free?"


Yes!

Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
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nuclear glory
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Posted: 17th Mar 2006 09:12 Edited at: 17th Mar 2006 09:18
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Moving along towards the v4.02 release.

The next release will be placed in the "Program Announcements" section. Another notice will also go out to all v3 and v4 users.

The raycasting speed of our new version has been confirmed to be very fast. Lost in Thought did some benching for us, and, quoting him:

Quote: "Ray casting is now wicked fast with appx 0.562ms (you can get about 1800 ray casts per second) on a 130050 poly object "


That ms reading is per cast. That's down from about 14 ms per cast with v4.01. This means you'll be able to cast 14 to 28 times more rays for the same performance hit. So, if you're casting 14 rays right now with v4.01 and move to v4.02 the speed impact will only seem like one ray. The ms reading with v2.03 was around 25 ms.

So... there are plenty of reasons to upgrade.

Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
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x1b
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 04:16
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So, confirmed,my FPS has climbed about 20fps,very cool! However,it seems ive lost my collision. I have the .dll with my .exe and .dba in my include dir and loaded into my IDE. Pretty much all is the same as when I was running 2.03 except having simply upgarded the files and some of the source as is suggested in the Install notes.

attached a video file. ignore the quality and the FPS. just did it quick to show what im talking about. FPS is about 38-42 when not running fraps.


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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 04:22
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I'll check it out. How did you convert from avi to wmv?

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x1b
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 04:25 Edited at: 19th Mar 2006 04:39
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Quote: "How did you convert from avi to wmv?"

Windows Movie Maker. Drag the video onto the time line then save as movie.


Quote: "I'll check it out"

Thanks LiT


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nuclear glory
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 04:43
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Try doing:

SetOctreeThresholdPRO( 0 )

after you start the plugin and see if it works then.

If not, you probably mistyped something. We have confirmed a problem with the octree accuracy in v4.01. It will be fixed in v4.02 which will be released within 7 to 10 days.

Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 05:02 Edited at: 19th Mar 2006 05:12
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I think he may have forgotten to update his NGC constants at the top of his code Checking now (I had to run to town real quick).

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x1b
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 05:20 Edited at: 19th Mar 2006 05:30
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Quote: "I think he may have forgotten to update his NGC constants at the top of his code"


almost positive i did update. I remember reading then copy pasting

ill try
Quote: "SetOctreeThresholdPRO( 0 )"


[edit]

Nope. No luck. I copy/pasted the constants right from the readme and the rest of my code ive been using since 2.03


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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 05:37 Edited at: 19th Mar 2006 05:40
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Hrm still doing some tests.

It doesn't work here either.

[edit] It has something to do with the scaling. If you don't scale the objects then it works.

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x1b
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 05:40
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[href][/href]

edited to mask keys.


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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 05:41
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Yeah see my edit

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x1b
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 05:43
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oh man...if I dont scale them down, they're monsterousley huge


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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 05:52
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Yeah must be a floating point error lol. It works at some scales.

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x1b
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 05:58
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what scales are working for you,LiT? ive been fussing with scales for awhile before you first replied.


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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 06:00
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Well the farther it is from 100 the worse it gets. All are off a bit it seems other than 100.

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x1b
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 06:02
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ouch... k, guess ill wait until 4.02


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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 06:10
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I'll be testing 4.02 quite a bit before release. I plan on doing quite an extensive test, so it should be pretty good when released. The ray casting speeds are awesome so far. Your problem will be fixed by then.

I will try and test every function of the plugin with several different projects and make sure it all works.

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nuclear glory
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 06:14
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Quote: "I will try and test every function of the plugin with several different projects and make sure it all works."


As will I.

Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
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x1b
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 08:39
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And I will wait with bated breath


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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 08:49
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I think it will be worth the wait. Shortly after it comes out I will be posting my modified include file that adds alot of extra stuff

Here is what I have so far to do:

matrixs (though you cannot modify the hightmaps of the matirx once entered as it would have to dump and rebuild the triangles)

static objects that you can delete from DBP, but still be in the collision plugin to save memory

As well as dynamic collision objects that would normally be hidden, will be able to be removed from DBP yet remain in the collision plugin (moved and rotated with NGC replacement commands) to save memory.

Hopefully DBP dynamic object limb support finalized (still a bit dodgy but I'm working on it).

And I may add this one:

Higher object numbers ( the number of objects in the collison system will still be limited but you can use higher object numbers in DBP).

Though now that the limit has been upped to 9999 I don't really need it anymore.

Anything else anyone would like to see added to NGC, let me know and I'll see what I can come up with. Maybe Matthew can add them in better or faster in a future release once completed.

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nuclear glory
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 09:39
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Yes, I'll let you guys do the fine/tedious DBP details and then fully implement (re-release) your mods as part of the mainstream DBP plugin.

Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
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x1b
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 15:38 Edited at: 19th Mar 2006 15:39
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How then, does one get onto the Beta team? Not like I match LiTs coding skillz(infact am learning from him), but am curious.


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nuclear glory
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Posted: 19th Mar 2006 21:57
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A rigourous... initiation...

It involves eating hotdogs out of a toilet, etc...

----

Actually, you just have to be experienced enough to handle debugging and code isolation on your own end so you're helping us find our own bugs. And... you should be online in a solid enough block where we can send you an update, you send us test results let us know of problems, we respond with an update (sometimes immediately or it might take a day, etc...). LIT just hooked us up with test results in his demos and we kept going back and forth. So that's pretty much the name of the game.

Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 20th Mar 2006 00:07
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Hi Matthew,
Following your suggestion, I went ahead and got the BASIC package right away (currently waiting for it to arrive) to start playing around with the dbpro version and will keep an eye out for the DGSdk version to popup to then buy the upgrade.

I assume you will be getting 4.02 BASIC out of the way before releasing the C++/sdk version, right? Any guesstimate at what the ETA for version 4 of C++ will be?

Many thanks in advance!

I have vague plans for World Domination
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x1bwork
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Posted: 20th Mar 2006 16:34
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Quote: "Actually, you just have to be experienced enough to handle debugging and code isolation on your own end so you're helping us find our own bugs. And... you should be online in a solid enough block where we can send you an update"


well,im on at work and home. so near 24/7 and msn is on 24/7. cant honestly say I have alot of debugging experience. trouble shooting,maybe but only ran a debugger in C++.

I'd love to help with NGC to the best of my abillity. If you ever think you could use my help, let me know.

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nuclear glory
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Posted: 20th Mar 2006 22:38
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Quote: "I assume you will be getting 4.02 BASIC out of the way before releasing the C++/sdk version, right? Any guesstimate at what the ETA for version 4 of C++ will be?"


We're suppose to be getting the BASIC package out no later than Friday. So it will come out shortly after that. I'm THINKING a few days, but don't quote me.

Quote: "I'd love to help with NGC to the best of my abillity. If you ever think you could use my help, let me know."


Will do, thanks a lot.

Email me at: [email protected]

I'll send out one of the more final betas your way (should only be a day or two) and you can run some testing of your own and help confirm any bugs. LIT is going through each command and testing it's stability.

Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
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x1b
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Posted: 21st Mar 2006 00:12
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Excellent. I'm fairly confident that LiT wouldnt mind helping me,help you. Sent an email.


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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 21st Mar 2006 00:20
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Yeah I am rigging up an test engine to test all the commands When it is done enough I'll send it to you x1b. Though you will have to have the csm importer to compile it. I'm using this as it is easier to setup the tests. I will send a precompiled exe as well.

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x1b
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Posted: 21st Mar 2006 00:28
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Most excellent. Point me towards the CSM exporter,when you can.


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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 21st Mar 2006 00:32
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Quote: "http://www.apexnow.co.uk/tools2.htm"
It's $13 but worth $50 to me (more if I had it).

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x1b
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Posted: 21st Mar 2006 00:35
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No fret. $13 is my after work brew at the pub. Thanks,LiT.

Stupid as it may sound,or ultimately geeky,this is exciting for me.


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nuclear glory
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Posted: 21st Mar 2006 01:03
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Quote: "Stupid as it may sound,or ultimately geeky,this is exciting for me."


Our official company dictionary (Glorynary) defines you as wicked cool.

Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 21st Mar 2006 02:33
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The test program will have the following entities to help test the collision:

Sliding doors
Swinging doors
texture animated meshes w/file animations
texture animated meshes w/simple code animations
texture animated meshes w/ a sequence of files
ladders
elevators (sliding doors with angle of -1 or -2)
teleporter
supply packs
water
player start
illusion
keys
triggers
buttons
enemy start

as well as shooting, jumping, and FPS movement controls.

Are there any other entities (or other features) that can help test the collision? If so post them and I'll put them in. This will be open source when done.

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x1b
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Posted: 21st Mar 2006 02:57 Edited at: 21st Mar 2006 03:03
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Sick...

Quote: "Are there any other entities (or other features) that can help test the collision?"


I'll think of something after im done drooling

[edit] im not so sure this is collision related but something ive ponderd for awhile. Ducking/Crouching under,over,between,objects and Slidding across "ice" and downhills (in my typical Winter Scene terrains that I like to do, for example) I'd love to test and demo a sliding effect both verticle, horizontal and varied angels.


I inquire about the "between objects" as I my self and am sure that others would wonder how well NGC will hold up against such extreme collision. More so the sliding effect.


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nuclear glory
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Posted: 21st Mar 2006 04:15 Edited at: 21st Mar 2006 04:16
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It'll handle inter-object collision well until you do stuff like squeeze an ellipsoid from opposite ends with a mesh (and make a literrally impossible collision scenario). This is something that will likely be more natural once we get to adding physics (so an impossible scenario should never exist).

I'm still running around the NGC code making some updates. I like where it's headed.

Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 21st Mar 2006 04:21
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I can add ducking/crouching (over, under, and through objects), and sliding (ice entity). The ice entity may have to be put into a seperate demo as I don't have any physics yet and it'll have to be faked. I'll see what I can come up with though

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Pulsar Coder
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Posted: 21st Mar 2006 05:20 Edited at: 21st Mar 2006 05:20
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Quote: "... This will be open source when done."


@LiT: should I become a beta tester to also get the test engine?
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 21st Mar 2006 06:12 Edited at: 21st Mar 2006 06:18
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Everyone will get the test engine when v4.02 comes out.

[edit] When I get done with the include file additions I have planned for NGC 4.02 (after it comes out), I plan on posting sections of the test engine as I know the entire code can be alot to look at. I will say post a small ladder example, a small water example, and etc to keep the rest of the entity codes from making it look harder than it is. These smaller codes will use DBP primitives and not require the CSM importer.

So if anyone wants an entity coded in speak now. I already have everything in but the last few (porter over from my csm entity example code from 2.03).

@Matthew My water code could be alot better if we could have solid collsion objects (anytime the ellip is inside the volume then register collision). Would this be possible for a future update (even if it is just ellip to box)? I have work arounds for now.

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nuclear glory
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Posted: 21st Mar 2006 06:39
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Like an ellip-in-volume command? I can swing that.

Anytime the ellip is within or touching the volume it would register.

Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 21st Mar 2006 07:18 Edited at: 21st Mar 2006 07:20
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That would work great.

[edit] Also when it is set to resp_none (in v2.03) it seems to register the first loop you hit the object but doesn't register it again until you leave the object and hit it again. I'll test this in v4 and see how it works. I need it to register anytime it is hitting even in response none.

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