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FPSC Classic Product Chat / [LOCKED] TGC's Marketing Mistake?

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Van B
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Posted: 5th Apr 2006 09:21 Edited at: 5th Apr 2006 09:36
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Listen.

How much do any of you do for free for this community?

When you start putting in a couple of hours every day for something so thankless please get back to me with your opinions about how I'm in it for the glory. What glory? having to deal with people like you every day?

Yeah, I wonder why there's so few mods in this freak of a forum.

''Your right mods are not CSR's but you do represent TGC in these forums so it's sorta in your best interest to represent them on a good manner.''
Ok, so what is it that is setting TGC in a bad light that I'm responsible for?

And in what best interests is it to represent them in a good manner? - If Rich isn't confident in a mods attitude then he'd just get rid, it's as simple as that. I've said this a thousand times, this time listen, Mods are here to tidy up posts, not promote FPSC or babysit this place just because it has some newcommers. At one point, the DB forums had like 3 or 4 moderators, did that mean that everywhere was like the FPSC forum?, unsurprisingly no it wasn't.

Frankly I've had enough of even trying to mod this place, it's like wading through crud, uphill.


Van-B

Put away, those fiery biscuits!
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Reality Forgotten
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
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Location: Wichita Falls TX
Posted: 5th Apr 2006 11:29 Edited at: 5th Apr 2006 11:33
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Quote: "How much do any of you do for free for this community?"


things I have done for the community:
1) 2 tutorials
2) 1 free paintings pack
3) 1 free hill pack
4) Working on a wild west pack that is going to be released free
5) working on a medieval building pack going to be released free
6) currently working on a lightmap tutorial
7) free file hosting
8) static and dynamic entity and the proper application discussion

So yes, I have done a lot and I do spend hours a day on here reading and helping when I can. If I can't help someone I try my hardest to find the answer for them or at least point them in the right direction.

Quote: "''Your right mods are not CSR's but you do represent TGC in these forums so it's sorta in your best interest to represent them on a good manner.''
Ok, so what is it that is setting TGC in a bad light that I'm responsible for?

And in what best interests is it to represent them in a good manner? If Rich isn't confident in a mods attitude then he'd just get rid, it's as simple as that. I've said this a thousand times, this time listen, Mods are here to tidy up posts, not promote FPSC or babysit this place just because it has some newcommers. At one point, the DB forums had like 3 or 4 moderators, did that mean that everywhere was like the FPSC forum?, unsurprisingly no it wasn't.

Frankly I've had enough of even trying to mod this place, it's like wading through crud, uphill"


So basically what your saying is you could careless about MODERATING these boards since they are freakish. Many of people to include myself don't get on here and spam up the boards. we actually read what is posted and sometimes we learn a thing or two. And yes many of us try to make these forums a better environment to promote development, but since we can not remove null posts and threads nor can we approve posts our hands are tied. Alot of us are hoping that You as a Moderator will take charge and say "listen your post has not been aproved because your question or topic has alread been addressed" or "this a non related topic let's remove it" We would like to see a few more MODS in these forums but that is up to rich. It all boils down to the fact that a pro-active approach is needed and it starts with approving proper posts and not hitting approve like it's going out of style.

"I am ready to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter."
-- Winston Churchill
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Van B
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Posted: 5th Apr 2006 12:26
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You want to see a screenshot of the 7 stupid posts awaiting approval in the main section?

Some even complaining about not being able to see their post.

If they read the AUP then they'll know why they can't see their post - I honestly think I have better things to do than shepherd here.

It must be easy, to find a dodgy post and assume that a moderator approved it, or has even seen it, what you don't see is the countless stupid posts that we do take care of, or just don't approve. You can't possibly comment on what the moderators do or don't do, your not in possesion of all the facts.

Quote: "So basically what your saying is you could careless about MODERATING these boards since they are freakish."

No, I said I'm sick of trying to mod here because of threads like this. You guys get a mod on side, a mod trying to help, and everything that pisses you off about FPSC is thrown at them. I don't approve crud posts, so why in the blue hell should I have to answer for them. Whenever a mod does anything here, you guys recoil in shock - when we clean up we have to justify every crud post we delete, FFS a moderator can't win.

I'm free to moderate in whatever fashion I see fit until Rich or someone at TGC disagree - I'm saying I'm sick of moderating here so I'll sit back and leave it all to JohnY, as he's probably the only other mod that spends any time here. I'm not sure why your dragging this out with me, it's not my problem and never was.

You guys maybe think Rich is in the opinion that we're all looking after the FPSC forum? - no, he knows it's a toilet, and I'm not sure he has any ideas on how to improve matters just yet. You think that Rich has ever asked any mods to keep an eye out here? - no, he knows it's a toilet. I said from the start, FPSC's forum should be away on it's own server with it's own mods comprised from advanced users.

Most of the moderators don't even own FPSC, FFS I don't own FPSC and I beta tested the damn thing. I have the last beta which is close to the release version, but it's not like TGC has taken steps to encourage mods here, what are we supposed to do in that situation? - go and buy every TGC product so we can provide customer support?


Van-B

Put away, those fiery biscuits!
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Posted: 5th Apr 2006 12:46
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I think it's called initiative. but I could be wrong, I strongly doubt it though.

"I am ready to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter."
-- Winston Churchill
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uman
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Posted: 5th Apr 2006 13:55
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This thread is just adding to all the others that are a waste of space.

The Mods - do here what they feel is possible and correct - making a judgement on as to what they should do. They are the only ones in that position and are the only ones knowing what they should do and why they do it. They are not answerable to anyone here.

Some posters and threads - crap up the board and others just get drawn out full of debate over nothing or insults which serve no useful purpose - for no helpful reason hogging the boards - replacing anything useful thats going that users can discuss in FPSC game development. Many of other threads are constantly full up with the same repeated questions or issue related FPSC problems - just because there are so many of them and users dont look or cant find an answer.

The only useful posts are ones which have something helpful in a practical way regarding gamemaking with FPSC and they make up a proportion.

TGC made no marketing mistake - they and FPSC is doing very nicely as a result of their marketing direction which fills the treasure chest.

Opinions regarding FPSC and this forum you can have and you can state them here until you are blue in the face - it wont change anything so you just waste your time. Fine if you have nothing better to do.

TGC will make changes when they see fit and not before - they really are not going to be influenced by members of this forum. They really dont pay any attention to what you want as such in the main - FPSC and this forum is governed by TGC Commercial aspirations for their company and their products, not what you want the product to be or whether theres a verbal fight going on here at the forum - they have better things to do. So do users.

How many times have I had to say regarding anything FPSC - TGC know exactly whats going on with the product and with the forum - Those things will change if and when TGC decide so and not before - so I suggest you stop wasting you effort and put it into something constructive until that time comes along and get on with some gamemaking. Then perhaps we can restrict threads and posts to that constructive gamemaking content.

Otherwise you are just going to go around in circles with these threads and the board will still be full of them this time next year.

As it has always been if you dont like the crap posts - then ignore them - if you have the ability. Offensive posts you should report and TGC will take care of them if your complaint is legitimate. What more do you want - and dont answer that - its a statement not a question or well have another debate.

I am not saying that even I - though I am generally easy going and open to all reasonable views of posters - would not like to see a much tighter control of what goes on and gets posted here. But thats just wishful thinking at the moment - its not going to happen until and if TGC decide it will be so.

Happy gamemaking.

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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 5th Apr 2006 14:05
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I know if I was a mod here, Id delete most of these bastard threads, and have a whole list of banned people.

Model Pack: Tools: http://www.league-of-lunatics.co.uk/3d/tools.htm

Screens and info: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&b=24&t=72473&p=0
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Tom0001
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Posted: 5th Apr 2006 16:10
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Yes, I feel the same as Higgins on this-if you guys don't give a damn about the FPSC forums, then make someone on these FPSC forums an admin-someone that DOES care, someone that WILL moderate these forums so you guys don't have to...

Tom

Support your local Riker 9 Chapter.
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Sunflash
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Posted: 5th Apr 2006 21:40
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Quote: "Sunflash, Kansas has his wording structured so that he sudjests that most kids aren't mature."


Umm, that was my point

http://tinypic.com/egv4u8.gif
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Posted: 5th Apr 2006 22:09
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@Uman- VanB even admits to not monitoring these freakish forums. so no they do not do what they should be doing.

"I am ready to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter."
-- Winston Churchill
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uman
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Posted: 5th Apr 2006 22:47 Edited at: 5th Apr 2006 22:48
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Reality Forgotten,

I may not personally be at odds with your opinion. However...

What the Mods should be doing is a matter for TGC alone to decide.

As far as I am aware currently TGC and Moderators are at one - in tune with their opinion and handling of the forum. End of story.

It matters not what anyone elses opinion is - TGC have sole discretion over the forums and how they are handled - quite rightly so.

They may decide things should change at their discretion as I said. At the moment things are as they are. Just dont think TGC are going to change their minds because anyone at this forum thinks differently - they wont. If things are changed it will be at their instigation and not from any forum pressure as in fact thats likely to just have the opposite effect.

If anyone thinks TGC dont know what goes on here they are daydreaming.

If you are that concerned and you dont like the way the forums are maintained then instead of wasting a thread here why not make you opinion known to TGC - who knows they may make some changes on the strength of your opinion, but dont bank on it.

Good luck to you.

On that note i'm outta here.

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K Jah
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Posted: 5th Apr 2006 23:30 Edited at: 5th Apr 2006 23:58
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Well on age and immaturity my dad's 44, but is still immature. Fact is being immature is fun. If you were in a padded cell what would you do?

a) Sit in a corner for an hour and wait to be let out.
b) Run around like a stark raving lunatic and have more fun than you've had at work.

---

On MODs i agree with what Van B is saying this forum would be very hard to Mod. So what I suggest is that certain EA users such as my self should become Mods, those with experience in FPSC and especially those who have or had forums to call there own (I did).

---
EDIT:
removed rant

<('.')> <(@.@)> <(-.-)>
GO TEXT KIRBY
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Posted: 5th Apr 2006 23:49
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@uman- I have made my concerns to TGC and there has been some email traffic on this issue. Right now I am awaiting a response from Rich.

"I am ready to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter."
-- Winston Churchill
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uman
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 02:14 Edited at: 6th Apr 2006 02:39
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Reality Forgotten,

Makes no difference at all to me - I can live with any forum any way it is and get the best from it.

Apart from any obviously offensive or unreasonable matter contained in posts I have never had a problem with this or any other forum - the rest I put down to diffrences in human behaviours and deal with it accordingly just as dealing with human behaviours outside of the forums. Neither do I have any problem with the forum Mods whom as VanB has pointed out - I have no real idea what difficulties they face so have to accept that they do what they feel is both possible and best for the forum and its users under prevailing circumstances.

Whether I agree or not with others, I try and respect all others opinions and accept their right to voice them irrespective of whether I personally think they should be allowed to or not - who am I to decide they should not - whether they respect my opinion or not too is a matter for them to decide.

Despite some lack of control at this forum and a general hands off approach by TGC - that is still the best option for any forum and I hope that TGC will continue a reasonable and sensible policing policy at all of its forums, nothwithstanding of course intervening when necessary to ensure a continuance of sensible behaviour based upon fair judgement and a resonable response.

Anything other than reasonable behaviour from either the users or TGC and all is lost.

For any forum to be successful - users must take responsibility for some self control - for if not it is inevitable in the long term that one way or another the outcome is going to be a result which no sensible user wants or benefits from.

Heavy policing or even closure.

Neither of those last two options are to be recommended. If you dont know why I would be wasting my time telling you.

You can take your pick. I would suggest users take instead the self policing option and behave sensibly and responsibly at all times.

If they cant do that then they will eventually have to accept greater control over the forum by TGC - so be it.

Now I really must get out of here.

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FredP
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 02:53
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I don't think they will close the forum because then we will be aggravating them instead of each other...lol.
Seriously,though,I don't care how people act or what they post as long as it's not offensive or has something to do with piracy...we all need a good laugh once in a while.

FLA
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Lucifer
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 04:12
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Quote: "I know if I was a mod here, Id delete most of these bastard threads, and have a whole list of banned people."


patience, all in good time, we will have 5 users left on the forums.

kallikúkurerekkicool
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 05:29 Edited at: 6th Apr 2006 11:00
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Ok this has gotten a bit out of hand.

no one is saying go SS on these forums! but it's obvious that these forums are being neglected. every once in a while the MODS come in and clean house but it is few and far between.thats the fact of the matter.

"I am ready to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter."
-- Winston Churchill
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Aoneweb
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 05:45
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Maybe TGC should allocate mods for this forum only, and have a warning system, three strikes and your out type of thing, and if you get warned, but behave yourself for a month, then the warning is lifted.
Just some idea's on how things could be done, now I know you guys have some positive ideas as well, so why not post them?


Game resource forum and arcade, click sig.
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uman
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 06:48 Edited at: 6th Apr 2006 06:50
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Users should be aware that its been TGC policy since way back to stay out out what goes on in this particular forum as its a relative nightmare. The whole thing is a nightmare for TGC at the Forum end. So the result has been they stay well away. The forum is neglected as a matter of policy.

One can appreciate their decision if having followed FPSC dev since the beginning of this forum inception well before release of EA.

Unfortuneately this has also meant that forum users have missed out on helpful support here at the forum from TGC presence in response to requests for help or information on a regular basis regarding the product and its development too at any stage. It seems that TGC and they have said as much on occasions feel that by and large the users are not worthy of that level of interaction and support from them which would perhaps now as in the past degrade into much insult and argumentation. I may be quite incorrect in that assumption but it seems to me that there have been instances when at such times they have been rather really very outspoken in that vein and not at all minced their words in order to say so.

At such times as they have been outspoken I must say that I cannot disagree with their overall response and such threads as this give them little confidence that attitudes towards them and their presence here may have changed.

What TGC have said they are looking for from this forum is a level of sensible and resonable response to the FPSC product and a reflection of that in the posts at the forum. Given that should be the case then I am quite sure that they will again give this forum the attention it deserves at some future time.

If thats ever going to happen then either forum users have to moderate themselves or someone else has to do it.

The only other option is a continuation of the current status quo.

Personally - though I am not bothered by most post content here as I have learned to live with the content and forum as is and I accept TGC policy towards it - however there is certainly a great deal of content that either exists or is posted from time to time that I would and this is a personal view - would not tolearte at all. Myself I would take a very hard line aginst those who dont follow overall general forum rules and behave in any form of accepted unruely behaviour. It does no one any good and supports continuance of the current situation. One warning and your out would be the most I would suggest - and not even that for even a hint of serious breaches of forum rules, offensive or illegal behaviours. Swearing even with the use of *** etc, there are many things that play no part and should not be tolerated in the slightest way at any forum - you get my drift.

I am not quite sure that would however be helpful of this forum supporting a large user base which maybe required by TGC. I guess perhaps a large portion of users coming through here would not last long. That maybe a good thing it just depends on any one individuals point of view.

Quality or quantity? Or perhaps both with some hard work.

Certainly everywhere there must be some rules or things just fall apart but I am very supportive of fair and reasonable application of their implimentation.

I am all for the freedom of the individual but follow the rules and be nice to others - Really a little common sense is all thats needed.

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Aoneweb
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 07:02
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Quote: "I am all for the freedom of the individual but follow the rules and be nice to others - Really a little common sense is all thats needed."

Well said.


Game resource forum and arcade, click sig.
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Tom0001
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 14:57
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Very well said. If we all work together to help each other, i'm pretty damned sure the FPSC forums will once again get the attention it deserves! Come on guys-be nice to one another! Instead of saying: Read the damn manual! Or USE THE FU*KING SEARCH button, why not just HELP them out? And if you don't know the answer to their problem, at least try to point them in the right direction! And if you don't KNOW the right direction, DON'T post at all! We could surely get the FPSC forum back in shape if we actually acted sensibly-come on, guys?

Tom

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K Jah
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 16:36
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Well said.

But this forum still needs mods.

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xplosys
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 16:38 Edited at: 6th Apr 2006 16:39
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I'll second that, But it's been clearly stated that we are the stepchild here and if we want a better forum, were going to have to do it ourselves.

Crazy Grandpa
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Aoneweb
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Posted: 6th Apr 2006 23:50
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The cops wont enter the southside, it's too dangerous


Game resource forum and arcade, click sig.
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K Jah
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Posted: 7th Apr 2006 22:54
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So we need a robocop basically. Somone who couldn't care less what people have to think about them.

<('.')> <(@.@)> <(-.-)>
GO TEXT KIRBY
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Les Horribres
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 01:18
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robocop turned against his creators... kind of...

We all have our inner noob.
Join the NJL: We have MORE fun!
When in doubt, blame a mod!
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Lucifer
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 01:30 Edited at: 8th Apr 2006 01:32
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I have one thing to say to kansas, i dont think tgc made a marketting mistake putting fpsc in stores.
I would think that fpsc is going more in the direction to the younger pepole. and i agree with you, pepole should put more effort to their games.
BUT, since most pepole that use fpsc are 8 - 15, not everone has the experience to make their own textures or models.
so i think fpsc is just the great thing for children to play with. not that i am saying that everyone here is immature and all that, i am just saying that i dont really think that tgc cares if pepole are *wasting* much time making games in their software. i think they want to sell their products. regardless of the users age.

kallikúkurerekkicool
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Posted: 9th Apr 2006 11:44
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word!

"I am ready to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter."
-- Winston Churchill
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Divi Dead
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Posted: 9th Apr 2006 16:09
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Whoa.... there is just so many posts you can feel the tension....

Okay, well while poor grammar and spelling can easily be pointed to young age and poor schooling, but another reason just as easy is that maybe I'm not the only one who can't seem to log-in using Firefox so am stuck using IE (means no SpellBound)


Personally I find it really rude to put down people who "don't know how to make a game" because they use materials that come with FPS Creator. The whole idea of having to pay for FPS Creator and additional model packs is so those that don't know how to, or want to dedicate many hours of their life learning to create models, textures, music, sound fxs, or whatever, or maybe just don't have the time with family, work, or school taking up lots of time. FPSC is a great program that is great in the fact you could know nothing of creating games, and have a fully playable game at the end of a full on day of work. On the other hand it also allows us to import our own materials if we know how to create them as not to limit people with the gift or knowledge of being able to create their own resources.

Finally, in my little conclusion, this forum isn't as horrible, and useless as some make it out to be. I'm one person who falls into the category of not being able to create many of my own materials, but I still have an image of a game to portray. This forum has helped me with peoples' links to their add ons for FPSC for a small fee that can then make my game all the more a reality. The more people who own FPSC, the better known it will become, and hopefully the more gifted people will come along, and create media packs that help people like me create their dream games.

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 10th Apr 2006 10:38 Edited at: 10th Apr 2006 10:45
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Quote: "@Uman- VanB even admits to not monitoring these freakish forums. so no they do not do what they should be doing."


People expect too much from the mods. People act like they are paid customer service personnel whose job it is to make everyone happy. It's not. They're respected, experienced members who have additional responsiblities and a little more power by which to accomplish them.

FPSC is not a serious product. I played with the demo, I had fun. I think I'd just had a fight with my wife - I filled a room with Aikos and picked them off with single shots. A product that isn't so serious will attract users that aren't so serious.

Anyway, people should lighten up, both about the game quality and Mod responsibility. Mods don't have to be here - their presence is just a benefit to everyone here. If you're having a problem with a Mod, perhaps they're not totally right, but chances are good that you're not either.


Pong y2k.5 - Balls of Steel, Beta http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=60999&b=8
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tpfkat
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Posted: 10th Apr 2006 10:55
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hahahahaha.....its called " freedom to express yourself".
fpsc was made to make "game making " easy.....so you should expect lazy efforts.
there is the " immature" member...this isnt a problem....its the irresponsible members that will spoil it.
i would also like to add that grammer shoulsnt be a problem with different language speaking members....and before fpsc people got flamed for using dbc and dbpro,if a game wasnt that good you got attacked....so who is really to blame if people dont put their best efforts up to veiw...the other members that enjoy destroying people.

some people think that making a matchstick man hangman type game is an amazing leap for their skills,maybe because they dont have the time to spend learning/building a big app,and have maybe never used a language before..so its a big thing to them..................................then the seasoned pro who spends most of their time living on the computer sees their work and expresses an opinion..basically flaming their hard work because it doesnt live up to their expectations.

people ,when first joining a forum,whether they can program or have just started learning,want to be noticed and post a few " hey im here" posts,only to be shot down,they then instantly react to the attitude that they have met and adopt it themselves.
so immature and irresponsible posts arent just controlled by the mods.....they are started by what the new member think is the normal attitude.so maybe the members should actually be helpful to newbies.

tgc hasnt kicked off people or warned them for making irrellevent postings because its a part of life...it has however noob slapped "vets" for willfully breaking the rules and setting a bad example.

just my veiw.

the programmer formarly known as thicko.
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Hugzmeister Games
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Posted: 10th Apr 2006 11:06
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Hey spell ignorance right for a start if you're going on about spelling mistakes...

''
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Mattman
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Location: East Lansing
Posted: 10th Apr 2006 15:44
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Reality Forgotten, you need to shut up, jerk.

Why make sense when you could make brownies?
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IanM
Retired Moderator
22
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Joined: 11th Sep 2002
Location: In my moon base
Posted: 10th Apr 2006 21:18
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Harsh.

But lets all face the facts - there are thousands of posts made to all of these forums every day. Do you really think us mods have the time to read them all, check spelling, check to ensure they are on-topic?

I became a mod so that I could help out the community. I donate my own personal time to do this and get paid nothing. Nada. Zip. Along with all of the other mods. I know that I spend more time in the forums that interest me more than forums that don't.

Did you see the little word 'community' up there? Not individuals. Community.

Communities help police themselves. When someone steals your wallet, do you a) whine about it a bit, then go watch TV, or b) report it to the authorities?

For those that chose b), you have several methods of reporting:

Most obvious is that little red face on the right under every post. Click one of them now to see what's behind it - it's just a simple form, but one that will be followed up. ---READ THE TEXT CAREFULLY---

If you are unsure about that, then the second method is to email a mod and tell them.

Easy really. Help us to help you.

For free Plug-ins and source code http://www.matrix1.demon.co.uk
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Megaton Cat
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Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 10th Apr 2006 21:44
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u guys r newbz


It's like a Megaton Cat radar, 24 hours a day.
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Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
19
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Joined: 12th Sep 2005
Location: Nirvana
Posted: 10th Apr 2006 21:46 Edited at: 10th Apr 2006 22:38
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Quote: "It seems that whenever I come on these boards, it is filled with immaturity, bad spelling, rule breaking and ignorrance. I think i have found the reason. FPS Creator, as well as sold online, was placed in stores across the world. My opinion on this move is that it gave the community a general disadvantage in terms of IQ, age and substance as many of the people who bought it were immature, and quite young (10-15) Although some members of this age catergory are mature, as I've noticed before and can add to the community, most don't.

The showcase section of the forums for example is just a board of bad grammar and stock media, there are very rarely any projects that contain real effort and substance. Now, the reason I beleive this product's community is like this is because this age catergory who bought it from the store, would not have been able to buy it if it had been sold online. I think that the store sales were a cheap way for TGC to get money in, and in a way 'destroy' the community it would have had.

If you do disagree with this post, then fine, post your views I would like to see your response. But if I am correct in my statment then all I beleive I will receive in this topic is bad grammar, spelling and the odd "ur gay". "



(1) Spelling - You should try learning to spell better before you criticize others. Ignorance has only one "r". Don't try to say it was intentional to make a point because you misspelled category too. It too has only the one "r". You misspelled that one twice. Also, believe has the "I" before the "E". Remember, put the "I" before the "E" except after "C". This is the Internet and it has a language of its own ... lol ... l33t ... tyvm ... So, spelling means squat.

(2) I agree with Whirlwind.

(3) VanB, I hope your son isn't attacked by having his actions referred to as "stupidity" when he does enter his first forum. If they have never been in a forum then of course they need to learn, but that doesn't mean they are stupid. Maybe, those kinds of remarks are why people complain about the Mods. Maybe, it has nothing to do with "stupidity" on their part but on the part of the Mod.

(4) The Mods here are mostly DBpro guys, and TGC does need some Mods who actually like FPSC enough to come here. I now officially volunteer, but that's right, we aren't supposed to ask to be one. I find it hard to believe that no one at TGC likes FPSC enough to moderate this forum. That's a lame excuse in my opinion.

(5) If this forum is a toilet, then it is only because TGC lets it be. It is their forum, so pushing the flush button might be better than having VanB in here cursing at everyone and calling them stupid. That too is what prevents parents from wanting their children to post here. Good example there VanB.

(6) Back to the topic of TGC making a Marketing Mistake. I don't think TGC has marketed anything wrong. Their only mistake is not making me and Merranvo the official FPSC Moderators (there's your flush button...lol). We all would volunteer so hold a vote. Each account gets one vote. New accounts don't get to vote because they don't know anything about the candidates. Anything for an FPSC Moderator, because we do need to start locking all the whiner threads like this one that do nothing but put down other people's work and the whole community itself.

(7) If the community elected its own moderators, then TGC would be removed from those complaints. The community could only blame itself then. Better yet, let the serial number of the software be entered to cast your vote. Then, only FPSC users could vote for the FPSC moderators. All forums could be that way, but the FPSC Forum would be a great place to experiment with this idea to see if it works. Does anyone else have any more ideas for solutions? I'm all ears for solutions.

"What we have here is a failure to communicate."

I blame it not only on an age gap, but also on cultural differences due to our global market.
We all have different ways of doing things and we all think that our way is best until we are proven wrong.
If we quit focusing on our differences and start looking at the things we have in common, then we might all get along.
We all like FPSC right?
If you don't like FPSC, then TGC should ban you from this forum.
We don't need Anti-FPSC people here, because this is our forum.
Make your own forum if you want to bash people's work.
No VanB we didn't buy a forum for $50, but this forum is for the users of the software is it not?


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uman
Retired Moderator
20
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Location: UK
Posted: 11th Apr 2006 00:05
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Yes I have an idea - everyone should just get on with making games and writing here solely about helpful FPSC dev issues and topics and nothing more. That is all thats required to make this a well managed forum. If the nonsense posts are ignored they will stop and the posters will go away. Such posters will always come and go from now to eternity. If users cant excersise self control then no form of moderating will suffice as a replacement.

This forum should remain as is largely self moderated unless and until TGC and no one else decides otherwise.

I dont have a problem with the forum why should anyone else.

Moderators of this whoever they may be should be required to moderate in accordance with TGC general forum rules and following sensible, reasonable guidlines and their should be no special case here.

There are too many self centered, self opinionated, I know best views here to make appointing Mods exclusively from the ranks of the user base here a sensible option and doing so would be a recipe for disaster In my opinion.

We certainly dont need blanket "anyone bashing" and locking threads just because of comments about FPSC, TGC or anyones work if posters comments are in a constructive manner. Tolerance, Fairness and Good judgement is required - something often badly lacking at this forum which is one reason TGC largely ignore opinions from it.

You all know the score - If TGC wished, they can choose to seek to appoint additional mods to this or any other forum at their descretion and could have done so at any time - they have not done so for a reason - If they choose to do so then I hope and I am sure that such will be done wisely.

If not then I can accept they have their reasons and I can live with that and still get on by and large with the forum, its content and users.

I hope and trust that TGC will continue to completely ignore being influenced by personal judgements and opinions of users at this forum and use their own impartial judgements in such matters in reaching any future decisions regarding this forum as they have done up until now. I am sure they will.

Having said that I would agree that it seems that some level of increased MODerator presence may be required to perhaps at least keep a closer watch on what goes on around here even if that presence is not seen - until that is there are any obvious serious breaches of forum rules at which time a severe response should be forthcoming.

In the mean time as IanM pointed out there are other alternatives for making any serious breaches of rules known and getting something done about it. Mods will respond if a fourum member has a legitimate gripe - however that does not mean users making a nusiance of themselves every two minutes just because they dont like someone elses opinion. Its that kind of lack of control that has brought the forum to its current status in the eyes of TGC and Mods too.

Like I said before - be sensible and perhaps except for extreme situations you should not need mods at all.

Sooner or later - this forum if it cant control itself - then mods it will be and make no mistake - when you have them - some at least wont like it.

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Lucifer
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Posted: 11th Apr 2006 00:09
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uman, if someone would take all your posts, and put them together, you would have a 100 page book!

kallikúkurerekkicool
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Reality Forgotten
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
18
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Joined: 28th Dec 2005
Location: Wichita Falls TX
Posted: 11th Apr 2006 00:54 Edited at: 11th Apr 2006 01:01
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A jerk? uhm interesting. If speaking the truth is being a jerk than I guess I am one. But before any Mod questions my devotion to fpsc they will need to search the forums. I have released a cheasy hill pack, many demo videos and a small single level demo, I have created two tutorials, one for Cshop and one for 3DWS. And I have a fix for the build game texture loss. I Created lengthy but insightfull post concerning my findings with entities, some like it some loathe it but never the less it is there. I have offered to host peoples files for free. I have also started three model packs for the community free of charge. My question to you is, would a jerk do this for the community? Probably not. And as to VanB, I can understand if he thinks this thread is a waiste of time. I can also understand the demographic differences on these boards. You can tell when someone is using a translator and tell when someone has just fat fingered thier keyboard or when someone just simply misspells a word. No one really cares about that stuff, infact it is a proven fact that you can spell a word any way you want as long as the first and last letter are correct the human brain will recognise simply due to the fact that you read by word recognition. What is irritating is the fact that new guys (not all inclusive)have to have posts approved and there are many occasions that we see a large amount of double and triple posts, three or four topics about the same subject, threads being hijacked, serious threads going way off topic, spamming all over the place and yet nothing is done about it other than the occasional "where did my thread go" topic. If they take on the MOD status then yes they have stated that they would moderate "MODERATE" these boards. If they can't stand these freakish forums then give up the status! Because this program is in it's infancy there are a plethra bugs to be reported. there area alot things to learn and twice as much to be taught. And the MODS are supposed to be our base line communication to the developers and they shoudl know the program. I could careless who had the EA version, obviously things have changed since then. there area alot more users and more users bring more problems. things to fix things to test. So a strong moderator team is needed for these forums. and according to the MODS that have posted they could careless about us in FPSC land.


UMAN- Have you read anything the mods have written? I understand that you feel they are doing thier job. but the fact of the matter is that they are not. coming in and cleaning a few threads up every once in a while does not constitute moderating. I know the MODS have been griping about these forums and saying how hard their job is, and that's fine. Don't take a position if you can not handle it. If you don't want to moderate full time then don't become a Moderator. It's that simple. And please stop thinking that we are picking on the MODs. All we are doing is calling them out and asking them to do their jobs. What's so wrong about that? You say end the bickering and get back to game making, I would love to do that, but whn I need to find some information I have to spend 3 days reading threads due to the fact that everyone who has a problem uses the help me title for all of thier posts. and some of them never really expalin anything at all. It's just time for the MODs to get proactive in these forums! we are not asking much, just that they do their jobs.

"I am ready to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter."
-- Winston Churchill
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Mr Love
19
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Playing: MAFIA 2
Posted: 11th Apr 2006 01:07
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The biggest problem with this forum is that alot of kids here are talking about EVERYTHING!!! Except the FPS Creator! TGC have to make up there mind. Is FPSC a toy for kids OR a "serious" game tool for Indie developers???


Stop listening to rumors! Listen to the truth...
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Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
19
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Location: Nirvana
Posted: 11th Apr 2006 01:31 Edited at: 11th Apr 2006 01:44
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@uman
I respect your opinions, and would like respond with my own.

Quote: "There are too many self centered, self opinionated, I know best views here to make appointing Mods exclusively from the ranks of the user base here a sensible option and doing so would be a recipe for disaster In my opinion."

All that in one sentence and it started with the "too many ...self opinionated" and ended with an "In my opinion."
lol.. interesting

Quote: "Tolerance, Fairness and Good judgement is required - something often badly lacking at this forum which is one reason TGC largely ignore opinions from it."

Hmmm, so ignore them if they don't think like you.
Okay, but that doesn't sound fair or tolerant to me.

Quote: "I hope and trust that TGC will continue to completely ignore being influenced by personal judgements and opinions of users at this forum and use their own impartial judgements in such matters in reaching any future decisions regarding this forum as they have done up until now. I am sure they will."

Ignore them more eh?
How can you possibly ever begin to serve your customers if you ignore their feedback?

Quote: "Mods will respond if a fourum member has a legitimate gripe - however that does not mean users making a nusiance of themselves every two minutes just because they dont like someone elses opinion. Its that kind of lack of control that has brought the forum to its current status in the eyes of TGC and Mods too.
"

I think that commenting on and discussing a difference of opinion is better than ignoring it or anyone.
However, there are many contradictions there.

Quote: "making a nusiance of themselves every two minutes just because they dont like someone elses opinion"

Maybe they are just expressing themselves as you have here, only it seems different from the other perspective.


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Van B
Moderator
22
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Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 11th Apr 2006 01:40 Edited at: 11th Apr 2006 01:43
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Yawn.

Reality:

Quote: "And the MODS are supposed to be our base line communication to the developers and they shoudl know the program. I could careless who had the EA version, obviously things have changed since then. there area alot more users and more users bring more problems. things to fix things to test. So a strong moderator team is needed for these forums. and according to the MODS that have posted they could careless about us in FPSC land."


So who are you exactly? - Who said you could decide what the role of the moderators are?.
Rich went looking for people who were experienced with the forum and had no dodgy spamming history - not because we'd all pledge our elegance and buy FPSC so we could do the job of paid staff. TGC has customer support and we're not them - how many times must this be said before you acknowledge it?

''I know the MODS have been griping about these forums and saying how hard their job is, and that's fine. Don't take a position if you can not handle it. If you don't want to moderate full time then don't become a Moderator. It's that simple. And please stop thinking that we are picking on the MODs. All we are doing is calling them out and asking them to do their jobs.''

Lots more I see.

I already said that moderators are not given copies of TGC software, so should not be expected to provide help, WE ARE NOT SUPPORT STAFF.

Listen, I have a job and a boss, he pays my salary, his name is Paul. In my spare time I come here and help keep things tidy when I can for these men called Rick and Rich, and they just expect me to tidy up when I find a mess. They don't tell us where to moderate, we moderate where we see fit - personally I don't think it's upto anyone but me where I see fit to MOD.

MODERATING IS NOT A JOB.
It's access to special forum controls and features - When using said features makes no difference whatsoever then there's no point wasting more time and energy. TGC need to decide what to do about this forum (if anything), so bitching will achieve nothing.

People are here posting who'd not normally end up here, you think maybe this thread has become so stale, that it's stinking up the forums?.

You have your ideas about what a mod has to do, but you have no idea, believe me - or rather, why not just wait and when you become uber mod, you can do things your own way. Reality check, won't happen.

One last question for you, one that I actually want an answer to.
How many TGC employees have posted in this thread?

Aegrescit medendo
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Les Horribres
19
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Joined: 20th Nov 2005
Location: My Name is... Merry
Posted: 11th Apr 2006 01:44
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Quote: "Remember, put the "I" before the "E" except after "C"."

weigh, height, seize, surfeit, heifer, weird, beige, cleidoic, codeine, conscience, deify, deity, deign,
dreidel, eider, eight, either, feign, feint, feisty,
foreign, forfeit, freight, gleization, gneiss, greige,
greisen, heifer, heigh-ho, height, heinous, heir, heist,
leitmotiv, neigh, neighbor, neither, peignoir, prescient,
rein, science, seiche, seidel, seine, seismic, seize, sheik,
society, sovereign, surfeit, teiid, veil, vein,
weir, caffeine, casein, codeine, deil, disseize,
either, geisha, inveigle, keister,
keister, leisure, monteith, neither, obeisance,
phenolphthalein, phthalein, protein, seize, seizin, sheik,
sheila.

I LOVE the english language.

We all have our inner noob.
Join the NJL: We have MORE fun!
When in doubt, blame a mod!
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Les Horribres
19
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Joined: 20th Nov 2005
Location: My Name is... Merry
Posted: 11th Apr 2006 02:02 Edited at: 11th Apr 2006 02:12
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Quote: "You have your ideas about what a mod has to do, but you have no idea, believe me - or rather, why not just wait and when you become uber mod, you can do things your own way. Reality check, won't happen."


I disagree, Perhaps not I, my history was always unstable, but what about Uman? I have yet to see a "dodgy spamming history", nor any bad history from him as of yet.

Quote: "MODERATING IS NOT A JOB."

Job:
A task that must be done: Washing the windows is not my job.
A specified duty or responsibility.

In Other Words, you are granted "privileges" in exchange for moderation, you have the JOB to moderate this forum. If you do not moderate those privileges will be revoked. (Unless Rich doesn't give a crap who does what)


Quote: "WE ARE NOT SUPPORT STAFF."

No, you are not... but the sad part is, there are a few of you who have DBP or have used it. Some mods are well versed in it, and in turn offer help to people who ask for it. Now, I know there are some mods who have used FPSC, but currently few offer assistance, even the developers, who once came down now and then, have left.

All in all, as Moderators you have the OPTION of picking up FPSC and learning what little there is to learn. You have the OPTION of helping others in the FPSC Community. You have CHOSEN the OPTION of not doing so. Please don't declare that you are not here to help us as your defense. It is a very weak one at that. Just say that you do not wish to help, and that you have abandoned the community.


As for moderating a forum... "I am allowing this post to go though... blah blah blah" every now and then I will see that in the "Geek Talk" but never in the FPSC Community. The first step to taming the wild horse is to tell it who is the boss. Efforts to tame that horse by mearly poking it are futile, you must grab it by the reigns and pull hard, kick your spurs into his sides and make him agnoledge you as the superior.

We all have our inner noob.
Join the NJL: We have MORE fun!
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Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
19
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Joined: 12th Sep 2005
Location: Nirvana
Posted: 11th Apr 2006 02:27 Edited at: 11th Apr 2006 02:28
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Quote: "How many TGC employees have posted in this thread?"

I know of at least one, and it ain't me.


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Van B
Moderator
22
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Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 11th Apr 2006 02:34
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Quote: "All in all, as Moderators you have the OPTION of picking up FPSC and learning what little there is to learn. You have the OPTION of helping others in the FPSC Community. You have CHOSEN the OPTION of not doing so. Please don't declare that you are not here to help us as your defense. It is a very weak one at that. Just say that you do not wish to help, and that you have abandoned the community."


No. You've clearly missed most of my posts. As moderators, we DO NOT GET FREE COPIES of anything, okay? - so to help to the extent that you all expect, we'd have to spend money - spending money to do something that you do for free is not in the spirit of this community. TGC simply don't expect us to go to those lengths. I have FPSC, this forum detracts me from doing anything with it to tell the truth.

I already said on numerous occasions that this place should have specific mods experienced in FPSC, just to moderate here - that is upto TGC, and I really don't see why people need to preach that anymore than it has been already, I think that's an agreed point. If that happens then it'd be the people avoiding threads like this that would be most likely to be considered.

The DB and DBPro users here are mostly used to the forum, a lot of them have been using DB forums since before there was a DB forum - that took a long time, FPSC users have to settle in just like we all did. The mod nusances, like post approval, and locking threads all have to be lived with - FPSC forums just aren't ready for that in my opinion; it's really like every other thread is in the wrong place or just spam.

P.S. When I refered to the stupidity in the forum, I did'nt mean that it was stupid!. I was talking about the extreme reactions to mispellings, bad grammer, samey screenshots etc etc. I consider getting annoyed at stuff like that as stupid, getting annoyed at threads like this however could only ever be considered normal.

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Van B
Moderator
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Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 11th Apr 2006 02:37
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Conjured,

Who?

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Megaton Cat
21
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Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 11th Apr 2006 02:50
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Let the babys have their bottles, Van.


It's like a Megaton Cat radar, 24 hours a day.
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Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
19
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Joined: 12th Sep 2005
Location: Nirvana
Posted: 11th Apr 2006 02:57
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Quote: "Who?"

He knows who and he was incognito so I won't say.


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Les Horribres
19
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Joined: 20th Nov 2005
Location: My Name is... Merry
Posted: 11th Apr 2006 03:05 Edited at: 11th Apr 2006 04:26
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Quote: "No. You've clearly missed most of my posts. As moderators, we DO NOT GET FREE COPIES of anything, okay? "


Quote: "Now, I know there are some mods who have used FPSC, but currently few offer assistance, even the developers, who once came down now and then, have left."


Andrew Vanbeck, Dave Milton, David
Johnson, David Tattersall, Frederic
Cordier, Ian Mold, Jake Jensen, Jason
Dean, Jess Telford, Robert Knight, Ron
Erickson, Malcolm Bamber, Alec Moody,
David Smith, David Tattersall, Chris
Blundell, Christian Mueller, Peter Coleman,
Chris Breaux, Evan Floyd, Stephen Jolly,
Eric Tomassetti, Brentt Moore and
Timothy Ruswick.

Those are all mods, I think, they have 'beta' versions. I don't know all of your names, so I included the whole list... are you Vanbeck?

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Cash Curtis III
21
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Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 11th Apr 2006 03:15
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[url]EVERYONE JUST CALM DOWN

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