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3 Dimensional Chat / 3D Modeling

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Tigerdane
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Posted: 29th Mar 2003 21:18
Ok, I can do mostly anything in DB. The only great problem I am having is modeling! I need some help on where to start. I have been trying to model for.. hrrmm.. about 4 years now. Nothing I have tried works very well Any tutorial, except www.3dcafe.com (Tried all those) would help greatly.

Ty..
Simple
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Posted: 29th Mar 2003 23:21
Here ya go >> http://xu1productions.com/3dstudio/tutorials.html

Spec - AMD Athlon 1000mhz - 256mb DDR - Gforce2mx 400 TV out - 60gb HD - 19" Compaq - DVD rom
Tigerdane
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Posted: 29th Mar 2003 23:50
Hrrmmm MilkShape? Maybe I should look into this more.. =) I have used it before but never really played with it much. Is it really compatible with DB?



bitJericho
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 00:03
yep it is! check out this website for a quick tutorial with milkshape, and more importantly, details on exporting it to both db and dbp:
http://dakoren.home.attbi.com/

[center]These are called variables and each one has a little label on it carved in cuneiform script by the hand of an ancient Babylonian black box engineer.
Tigerdane
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 00:38
Wow... Nice.. Ty! x-d

Tigerdane
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 00:39
I suppose the x-d Happy face doesn't work...

Tigerdane
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 02:06
Testing Siggy

Tigerdane
Tigerdane
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 02:09
Can you not use Geocities as your Siggy host? Or does it take hours and hours to actually upload?

Tigerdane
Simple
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 02:12 Edited at: 30th Mar 2003 02:26
If you want to see some models made with Milkshape... visit my website http://www.simples-designs.com + my downloads page.

Just getting that page ready for VanSIMPLE's JetPac2003 retro download

Spec - AMD Athlon 1000mhz - 256mb DDR - Gforce2mx 400 TV out - 60gb HD - 19" Compaq - DVD rom
Tigerdane
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 03:17
What technique do you use for your Character Models? Box, Vertex, something else?

Tigerdane
Tigerdane
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 03:20
I am attempting the Vertex on some pics of a person I have. I really don't get where the vertex's should go, or how to face each one .

Tigerdane
Simple
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 03:50
If you haven't had much practice at 3D modeling, then trying to model by just playing with the software will not help you.

Follow those PSI tutorials to the letter ... and it will become clear.

I have a few of my own tutorials here >> http://www.realgametools.net/forums/index.php?board=16;action=display;threadid=6132

Spec - AMD Athlon 1000mhz - 256mb DDR - Gforce2mx 400 TV out - 60gb HD - 19" Compaq - DVD rom
Tigerdane
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 03:53
Lol, I have basic knowledge of modeling. But I will try something easier.

Tigerdane
Tigerdane
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 19:56
Image, Work??

Tigerdane
<img height=154 width=410 src="http://www.geocities.com/bm_opi/Tigerdane.jpg" border=0 ></img>
Tigerdane
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 19:58
Dang thing!

Tigerdane
[img]"http://www.geocities.com/bm_opi/Tigerdane.jpg"[/img]
Tigerdane
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 19:59
Ok... lets try this



Tigerdane
Tigerdane
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 19:59
It works!!! Whoooo!!

Tigerdane
Tigerdane
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 20:15


Again.. haha

Tigerdane
Simple
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 20:42
How did you get your siggy to work ?? what did you type into your profile ??

Cheers !



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Simple
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 20:42
Hehe !! don't matter ..... it just popped up



Spec - AMD Athlon 1000mhz - 256mb DDR - Gforce2mx 400 TV out - 60gb HD - 19" Compaq - DVD rom
Tigerdane
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 22:01
Lol, I guess you have to see the real pic before the siggy.. or something like that, been modeling, and I am SOOOO confused.. haha..

Tigerdane
Tigerdane
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 22:02
OMG!! That dang sig!!! Isn't there anymore.. again!

Tigerdane
Tigerdane
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 22:09
I have been playing with the program, but nothing comes out like I want it to.. haha :-s I did some of the basic tutorials and played around a little, and I am working on a harder tutorial, i was doing good at first, then everything sorta, fell apart.. Here is a pic and hopefully it will work!



Tigerdane
Tigerdane
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 22:10
If you can't see the pic, right click and click "Show Picture".

Tigerdane
Tigerdane
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 22:19
Lol, it just gets better and better...

Tigerdane
Simple
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 23:23
WEll...... looks like you are trying to vertex edit the arms ? but in that tutorial, PSI makes the upper torso first, and then extrudes the arm.

So Make one half of the upper torso.... then make sure you have aranged the faces properly around the shoulder ( so you can extrude the arm )

Spec - AMD Athlon 1000mhz - 256mb DDR - Gforce2mx 400 TV out - 60gb HD - 19" Compaq - DVD rom

Tigerdane
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 23:46
Alrighty, lol.. But first I need to translate that to English!

I read all the Basic Tutorials and played a bit, but it aint getting in to my head... lol. Selective Memory, sucks..

Tigerdane
Tigerdane
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 23:47
The Weld command won't work for me, whats up with that? (too).. lol

Tigerdane
Tigerdane
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 00:13
This would be a LOT easier if I knew someone that could show me... LOL.... to bad no one I know does...

Tigerdane
Simple
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 00:52
I have a basic gun tutorial here >> http://www.realgametools.net/forums/index.php?board=16;action=display;threadid=6132

Follow that if you can.... it's a lot easier than starting off trying to make a human [b])

Spec - AMD Athlon 1000mhz - 256mb DDR - Gforce2mx 400 TV out - 60gb HD - 19" Compaq - DVD rom

Tigerdane
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 01:19
Actually I restarted and I think I am doing, well, good! The only thing I can't get to work is the dang Weld command!

Tigerdane
LLX
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 01:22
Wait simple jetpack was done in milkshape?

Tigerdane
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 01:33
Lol...

Here are some pics...

http://www.geocities.com/bm_opi/Models.html



Tigerdane
Tigerdane
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 01:34
Oh, yea, without welding! =)

Tigerdane
Simple
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 01:47
Yeah, thats looking much better

Welding = press CTRL + W to weld ....... CTRL + SHIFT + W to un-weld.

Sometimes it's a good idea to snap the two verts together first ( CTRL + N )

@LLX ...... yeah, all my models are made with Miklshape [b])

Spec - AMD Athlon 1000mhz - 256mb DDR - Gforce2mx 400 TV out - 60gb HD - 19" Compaq - DVD rom

Tigerdane
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 01:50
Ah!!! On the Tutorials that u gave me in the very first post, it was Ctrl+W, =) Even though, I did try it directly from the menu, ty (Again!).

Tigerdane
LLX
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 02:25
im jsut suprised i was told that onluy low poly models could be done in milk...

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 03:30
this has to be the oddest way of achieving these results i've seen in a long time ... but then again it really is a case of the blind leadning the blind here.

Milkshape 1.6.5 you not longer have to worry about Vertex disappearing when you delete something inscene, one of the best ways to create a model is outline it from the side.

First Make a Box the Size of the Character... cut it up into pieces and name each one like "Template_Front" or something so you know which is for which side. Now in the materials make the nessary materials for the background pics and load them up - then put them on this Cube you just made to proportions perhaps scaling the UVmap so that it has the edges of the person at the edges of the plane they're on, this means even if you're sketchs arn't perfectly aligned it'll take some pressure from that. It also means that you can see what you're doing in Facet Mode as if you goto the Materials, you see the slider just above and to the right of the Texture name and below the main materail properties is the Transparency - this'll allow you to make it see through so you can see the picture no matter what, but also what you'll be working on.

The add the major details from the side, if we were workin on the body it would be the abdomin, the ribcagem, arch of the back where it rounds slightly.
once the major detail is there ... then connect all the faces roughly in an order that makes a little faces as possible.

you now using the Selection->Vertex tool and the Menubar->Vertex->Divide Vertex 'Ctrl-P' ... selecting just 2 Vertex at a time try to make the side look more evenly spaced and grid like (turning on Facet Shading in the side fews tends to help with this, perhaps even changing the Vertex Colour with Menubar->Preferences)

once this is done, select all of the inside vertex and just pull them out until they're even with the width of the part of the body you're working on.
Now one by one move the vertex for each part so they roughly line up with the part they're suppose to (and you should notice the model taking shape now)

However you'll also notice there are alot of ugly lines where there shouldn't be - don't worry about it, hide you're template pictures (mesh's) and using the Select->Face (w/o-vertex w/-backface) begin to select where you can visible see the wrong lines (again Facet/Flat Shading in 3D Mode will help this ALOT) ... and just use Menubar->Face->Turn Edge 'Ctrl-E' just to make sure they're all shaped better

<-< Note when using the Divide Vertex and Turn Edge tools only to select 2 of either Vertex or Edges at a Time ... and to help oftenly its a good idea to Divide a Vertex and Turn the Edge as you work - this is particularly helpful when creating curved Surfaces >->

once you're all done, just menubar->edit->duplicate 'ctrl-d' and then menubar->vertex->Mirror 'Left<-->Right'

you should now have a very nice base Mesh ... if you want to see it looking well shaded goto groups select both your main mesh and your duplicate mesh (nameing them whilst you work helps you to find things quicker later), then click 'Regroup' - then click on 'Assign' and on the first number

now in one of the veiws make sure that you've only got this new mesh visible, Select->Vertex (w/o-backface) and then menubar->vertex->weld 'ctrl-w' and change the display mode from Facet to Smooth.
shouldn't be looking too shabby now (^_^)

there are many advantages to haveing a grid like mesh when it comes to UVmapping - because you can lay them out easier ... getting use the to Unweld 'ctrl-shift-w' tool is also recommend just for doing this very thing.
once you have layed out your main skin layout, generally starting with a planar map of the largest surface area and then you pull out the next areas you want to keep in tact, for example the body the largest area is the front/back - so you do a planar map from the from, select one side of the model where the side meets the back and unweld those vertex - then select the back and flip it horizontally then pull it to the side you didn't unweld

i mean some people i know rather than they, they cut up each part of the model and move then manually into position - line up the major Vertex and the snap them together in the UVmapper (which unfortunately Milkshape doesn't have this ability natively) ... but putting them close enough should be enough. if you have to use the Rotation try to get yourself using it from a main vertex which will be connected to the rest.

now all that should be alot better advice on howto model something within Milkshape than almost all of the tutorial on the web can provide - it will also line you up for the use of Splines and Polygon Spline Modelling later in programs like 3D Studio Max and Maya, as they are essential techniques which convert into any given Package

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Simple
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 03:41 Edited at: 31st Mar 2003 04:01
Quote:
now all that should be alot better advice on howto model something within Milkshape than almost all of the tutorial on the web can provide

LOL !! nuff said ( now where's the roll eye's smiley ? )

@LLX

QUOTE:

im jsut suprised i was told that onluy low poly models could be done in milk...

So what do you call high poly ??

Giant flea = 400 poly's
Lem = 800
Lem pad = 350
Rockets = 800
Rocket pad = 280
worm = 390
blob = 230
jerrycan = 150

Too many to list then all

Hardly high poly .... just not some of the square headed DOS standard models

In fact the only models which are higher, are the Jetdude and the Robot.... but when they are on the screen together, the other enemies are not. So that allows us to have higher poly models for the end scrap !

Spec - AMD Athlon 1000mhz - 256mb DDR - Gforce2mx 400 TV out - 60gb HD - 19" Compaq - DVD rom

LLX
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 05:16
well the model i got looke like this whe nhe sent a preview, i just chaled it up to milkshape limits and so did he.



Tigerdane
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 01:50
My Model? I made that in Milkshape. ?.?

Tigerdane
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 02:30
milkshape is capable of handling 16,400 polygons ... milkshape2 will be capable of an open end number (however only 10,024 visible)

however 16k polygons should be more than enough for ANY game character, as the largest count to date has been used within Tomb Raider: Angle of Darkness at 8,400 polygons for an end enemy.
Even then alot of the poylgons were just shapers for animation which just added to the Cinematic Realism rather than the gameplay Realism and you don't notice when you're battling it.

Milkshape isn't a Render kind of modeling program, however it can handle more than enough to make it more than a match for game modeling.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Tigerdane
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 03:12
Update, Sorta.. =P

http://www.geocities.com/bm_opi/Modeling.html



Tigerdane
Tigerdane
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 03:15
Top-Left: High-Res Top-Right: High-Res
Bottom-Left: High-Res Bottom-Right:Low-Res

Tigerdane
Tigerdane
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 03:20
The way I am modeling this now, will it be posible - at all - to fully animate this model?

Tigerdane
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 04:22
nope... not without some major editing (or unless you don't mind it looking weird once animated)

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Tigerdane
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 05:07
What type of major editing? Or how should I restart it?

http://www.geocities.com/bm_opi/ModelingPage.html

Tigerdane
Tigerdane
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 05:08
MikeS
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 05:30
Those models are starting to come out nice.

Clans of our Galaxy
A new space simulation coming in 2004 -yellow-
updates:20 new spaceship models
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 07:02
effectively for Animating you have to setup the mesh so that it can fold in a particular way when its being animated - or if you go for heirachy animation you need to setup the joints so that you can't see between each of the mesh (^_^)

you oftenly achieve this by allowing extra movement room along the opposite side you expect the main movement and where you'll be placing the joints.

for the leg for example, it cannot bend forwards once it is straight - this means that the back of the knee must be creased to allow for a more natural bending ... and you setup the front of the knee oftenly with with a flat front or a pyramid kind of shape ... you must make sure that the front is quite large, almost square in its length and bredth

add with this the knee joint being placed right behind the knee cap, (at point 1.0000 it should have the edges just touching it) and you'll have a more natural movement of the knee cap.

and there is no need to make sure the sides are creased as legs don't naturally bend sideways
whereas on the otherhand the hip joint does, so it should be a relatively straight line all around - except at the crotch between the legs, this is where the stretch movement comes into play and should have a slight gap between them without a crease... however goes back to a triangle for the ass because that does have a crease underneath it - the above actual bulge of the bottocks should be done in a geosphere pattern, meaning that the triangles do an interlocking effect this allows it to keep the round shape no matter what you do to it (this also applies when making breasts on women)

this is why when making them (atleast withing milkshape) the standard method is to do lines of vertex, then move them each to shape ... then use a zigzag facing method - if i were to do it in Max, i'd spline the major points, attach them all together and then in zigzag lines create the internal lines to cut it up. Works a treat, especially with Soft Selection you can really shape them well.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?

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