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Dark GDK / Upgrading from darkbasic

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Dimension
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 00:54
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I'm thinking of using dark sdk instead of darkbasic so i can customize my software better and am wondering if it is more flexible than darkbasic.
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APEXnow
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 01:11
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In terms of the engine and what it offers, it's basically identical to DBP, but all functions are prototyped into C/C++. So basically, anything you could have done in DBP, you can do with the DGDK, but with the added support of C++ OOP, and performance gains when dealing with arrays, strings and memory management.

Paul.


Home of the Cartography Shop - DarkBASIC Professional map importer
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 02:28
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Quote: "but with the added support of C++ OOP,"

and .NET(VB.NET, C#) with Visual Studio 2003, 2005, Express, SharpDEV...

when the dgdk.NET is released

Wouldn't think you of all people would have forgotten that

Science, Mathematics, and Physics do not lie - only people do.
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APEXnow
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 03:14 Edited at: 27th Jun 2006 03:15
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Quote: "Wouldn't think you of all people would have forgotten that "


Oooohhh noo!! Absolutely not!

Paul.


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Morcilla
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 12:06 Edited at: 27th Jun 2006 12:13
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Yes, everything is wonderful.

DGSDK more flexible than DBPro? Not at the present moment. You can say that C/C++ gives you the power to do anything, but not DGSDK.

There are no plug-ins for it, none of these are available as far as I know:

Dark A.I.
eXtends
Unity
Blue2 GUI
EZ Rotate
Enhancement Pack
Texture Max
Nuclear Glory

So basically, -not- anything you could have done in DBP can be done with the DGSDK.

And the engine can only compete with DBpro 5.8 or even lower.
Since it has no shaders, we could say that it is a direct competitor of DB Classic.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 12:21
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Its certainly rather behind at the moment... Lets hope Ageia hurry up & like the Dark Physics plug-in, then Lee can update the documentation and then finally the GSDK

Come to the last Unofficial DBPro Convention (http://convention.logicstudios.net/)
Dont do anything I wouldn't do. But if you do, take pictures.
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APEXnow
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 13:30
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Quote: "There are no plug-ins for it, none of these are available as far as I know."


My CSM map importer is available for the DGDK!

To be fair though, people will see that the DGDK will be sorted out relatively soon, and yes, I do mean the C++ version.

Paul.


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Morcilla
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 14:00
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Quote: "DGDK will be sorted out relatively soon"


LOL

Not bad as a joke, but people is tired of that kind of talking.

I've heard for more than one year things like, "soon enough", "sooner than you think", "it is in our plans", and I can tell you that no matter who sings that, we just don't like the song.

DGSDK is now obsolete, that's the only fact I see.
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APEXnow
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 14:17
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Quote: "DGSDK is now obsolete, that's the only fact I see."


Ok, so we haven't had an update for God knows how long, but it doesn't mean the thing's dead! The way I see it, the DGDK was forged from the original DBP code base DLLs, therefore any changes and fixes made to DBP will surely rattle down into the DGDK release when it's due. DarkPhysics is now part of this code base, DarkAI is n ow part of the code base, and all of the bug fixes that even DBP users have long awaited, are now finally being sorted out. All of these things will have to be reflected in the next release of the DGDK which I truly believe will not be long.

If the .NET version of the toolkit is to be a success, then all the liasing with Mike, Lee and Rick, will have to have to have a knock on effect of getting the DGDK uptodate and inline with all of the above additions to DBP. It's inevitable! Yes, I know it sounds like the same ol strings are being strung, but it's imperative to the success of DGDK and the .NET version, that people keep their faith in the toolkit and that the team will finally get the thing updated.

Paul.


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Morcilla
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 14:29
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I used to think like you.

You are right, to believe in DGSDK update has become an act of faith

But it is not my fault if I've lost it

By the way Paul, you are doing a great job.
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APEXnow
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 14:44
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I know it's hard to maintain the faith, but that's all we can do. Thanks for your support .

Paul.


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monotonic
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 14:49
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As for the plug-ins, C++ has many, many, many sdk's toolkits etc out there for all sorts of things, recently I implemented LUA, I am currently looking at implementing a free A.I SDK into my project. If you look around there is far more SDK's etc out there for C++ than there is for DBP plus you can find FREE ones!

I know the voices aren't real, but they have good ideas!
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Vlad
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 14:54
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When I get my game done I'll probably buy the commercial license, then 3 things may happen:

1. SDK is severely updated and debugged and I can get it with no aditional costs and I'll keep it in my arsenal. This would be the perfect solution since I would feel it was a good buying and support new versions.

2. SDK is severely updated and debugged and it's a new version, therefor extra costs and in that case I'll look for another solution for several reasons, being the biggest the fact that the SDK has some bugs and limitations that make a new investment in it seems quite a kick in the teeth from a customer point of view.

3. SDK is not updated and nor debugged and there are other offers in the market.

I really like DGSDK, I learnt a lot from it and it's being very useful, but time flies so fast and the time where I thought I was the problem as passed and now I feel the problems lie in the SDK.

Really hope this whole SDK update talk will end soon enough with good news for all of us that bought it and supported TGC. I had the same hopes and feelings with FPSC, now with DGSDK... see my point?

The only lazy people that can complete games are genius. You don't look like a genius, so you better stop being lazy.
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monotonic
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 15:00
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sqrt( ( OGRE = free + upto date ) ) = better option at the minute.

I know the voices aren't real, but they have good ideas!
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APEXnow
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 15:24
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Quote: "sqrt( ( OGRE = free + upto date ) ) = better option at the minute."


That may be true, and that may be free as well, but it's more difficult to learn, although I will not dispute it's capability as it is a nice engine. Personally, WildMagic was a better engine from my experience.

At the end of the day, all the toolkits have their benefits and disadvantages. But that's another thread.

Paul.


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monotonic
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 17:06
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Yep, I agree it is quite a lot more difficult to learn, thats why I chose dgdk. All I was saying is that dgdk at the minute is in kind of a void, but once it is brought upto date it will be one of the best/easiest engines without a doubt!

I know the voices aren't real, but they have good ideas!
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 17:14 Edited at: 27th Jun 2006 17:17
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Quote: "SDK is not updated and nor debugged and there are other offers in the market."

Unfortunately most others want everything to be done using C++ or they dont use DirectX9.

The GSDK is unique in that it uses the latest DirectX, is simple to use, and doesn't require a degree in C++ to use it.

Plus, the documentation is (which, whilst is currently inaccurate), it is readable.

In addition, GSDK programs do work on Vista.

As mentioned, it could be one of the best, if its updated soon.

Come to the last Unofficial DBPro Convention (http://convention.logicstudios.net/)
Dont do anything I wouldn't do. But if you do, take pictures.
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Vlad
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 17:34
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Quote: "As mentioned, it could be one of the best, if its updated soon."


Well at least we share this view. I like it, I really really do, but there are other options where I don't have to ask on a forum why the dbPlayObject doesn't work.

And regarding the documentation... let's not go that way.

The only lazy people that can complete games are genius. You don't look like a genius, so you better stop being lazy.
Support your local Riker 9 Chapter.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 17:43
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Its better than most - the Ogre one is awful, for example.

Come to the last Unofficial DBPro Convention (http://convention.logicstudios.net/)
Dont do anything I wouldn't do. But if you do, take pictures.
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Vlad
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 18:04
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Sure, I see a lot of interest in Ogre. As far as I'm concerned there's no interest at all. I won't make a list of what I'm looking at the moment because I think it's disrespectul to the owner's of the boards, but all the products I'm considering are all more expensive than DGSDK and none is free.

I don't have a load of money but from what I know about DGSDK at the moment I would prefer to pay more for a future version of it if I saw there was some investement in the current one. I'm not playing hardball, I think what I'm saying is legitimate from a paying customer.

Would I pay $500 for a product that interests me or for DGSDK with the current updates? Right now I would choose another program since very simple things simply don't work with DGSDK.

If I had a glimpse of update of the current product I would happily give the $500 for a future DGSDK. Like I said I like it a lot, but not enough to keep waiting endlessely. You see, I bought 2 products in TGC and none has been updated or debuged. As you may imagine, that's a no-no.

The only lazy people that can complete games are genius. You don't look like a genius, so you better stop being lazy.
Support your local Riker 9 Chapter.
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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 28th Jun 2006 00:31 Edited at: 28th Jun 2006 00:33
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I have a slight problem with 3d engines mainly because I've been burned in the past. I bought Cipher Engine and that has gone down the tubes. On that one you did get the sources, but - really - I'm not 14 years old anymore and I'm pretty much done with coding 3d engines (I've done it many times in the past, twice in a professional capacity when working for Take2 and Vivid Image). Now, I just want nice, clean API's to throw around ideas on the very little time I have left after work and family.

Now the same neglect has befallen the dgsdk... and the main problem here is that I really don't understand the rational for this delay. I mean, look at this, every plugin TGC releases enthails lots of development, documentation, samples, tests, updates etc. In the case of the dgdk, it seems that the "time to market" would be immensely lower, as it is really only a repackaging of DBPro. Granted, they will probably sell twice as much DarkPhysics units that the GDK... but it is taken probably a full years' worth of Mike's work and, I'm sure, a lot of help from a lot of people.

Again: Getting DGDK 6 out is just updating a binding. Even if updated documentation doesn't come immediately, I find us C coders are, by and large, more resourceful and pacient (experienced?) that the average DBPro user so we could probably make do in the meantime.

This isn't dissing anyone: it's simple knowledge of demographics and observation by hanging around forums and the game industry for a while...

<off the soapbox>

I have vague plans for World Domination
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Zeal
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Posted: 28th Jun 2006 11:37
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Quote: "In the case of the dgdk, it seems that the "time to market" would be immensely lower"


I agree, thats what really pisses me off the most. Sure SDK is (at least for now) a 'lesser' product for them, but consider how fast they could get this patch out if they really wanted to.

DBPro u6 patch showed me what these guys can do when they put their mind to it. If they would dedicate half that effort to the sdk patch it would be done and over with in no time, then they could spend all the time they needed on other projects (all the while maybe they would make money from dark sdk because people would actually buy it).

All you need is zeal
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APEXnow
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Posted: 28th Jun 2006 14:27
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Also folks, bare in mind that the .NET version will rely on the status of the original DGDK as well. If that is to succeed, support and updates of the DGDK will be necessary. Which is why I believe that the DGDK will be updated soon. It stands to reason that both products will require attention before something is made available for purchase.

Paul.


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RSJ
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Posted: 4th Jul 2006 06:26
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As for DGSDK, a version catches up with DBP when,
Can DarkAI and eXtends be linked now?
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