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3 Dimensional Chat / Monthly JTEdit release now up

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JAT
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 01:57
I've put up the monthly JTEdit update release. Just bug fixing this time, ho-hum. A new forum on my server.

JTEdit is my free 3D modeler. See http://www.jtgame.com/jtedit.

-JT
John Thompson
http://www.jtgame.com/jtedit
bitJericho
21
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 02:24
*drools*

mind if i put a link on my yahoo group? <shameless plug>and i urge u to join too</shameless plug>

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 07:00
will check this new update when i have time mate (^_^)

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
JAT
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Posted: 4th Apr 2003 21:42
All,

Oops, I've found some problems with adding faces and vertices resulting from recent changes, so I've fixed them put up a new release, 0.09.

User,

Please do. I've joined.

Raven,

Thanks!

-JT

John Thompson
http://www.jtgame.com/jtedit
JAT
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 22:08
Plans for this month:

I'm currently focusing on problems with the extrude tool and the undo/redo mechanism. Regarding the latter, this will be pretty painful process, but it's got to be done. Since I just lost my day job due to Intrinsic shutting down, unless a new job comes my way quickly, I'll be having a bit more time on my hands to devote to it.

Yesterday I pulled from the web information about the .3ds format, in preparation for adding support for it and .b3d and .bsp files. However, I won't be working on this until I get JTEdit's most essential features more solid.

Note that a week or two ago I put up a new online forum for JTEdit. Please feel free to make use of it. No one but me has posted anything, and it's quite lonely over there.

-JT

John Thompson
http://www.jtgame.com/jtedit
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 22:35
aww poor Jat
lost my job recently too due to circumstance outta my hands, kinda a bitch but working on a few new things whilst i sent out some resumés for some fulltime work again.

hope you're not outta the loop for too long, but does give some more free time ... well unless you have to work on a new portfolio like me hehee

.bsp isn't the format to work on, atleast not as an import/export format - checkout the .map format as it doesn't take so long to save and load
isn't an easi format though, as everything is done to a scale rather than real points. think alot of people will be happy at b3d support though, and adding FVF 338 support for DBpro wouldn't be too hard either - i've just got a lil more testing before my FVF Exporter/Importers are ready for the milkshape public

not many people are active in forums until they get more popular, ironic catch22 i know but i'll check em out from time-to-time
good luck with the job hunt and look forward to the next release.

downloaded the last one only yesterday, gonna take a look a little later today once i've finished this UI DLL i'm working on.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
JAT
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Posted: 15th Apr 2003 00:51
Raven,

Is FVF 338 a DBPro proprietary format? Do you have a pointer to a format spec? It's the first I've heard of it, so I should add it to my wish list.

Congrats on doing a MilkShape plug-in.

-JT

John Thompson
http://www.jtgame.com/jtedit
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 15th Apr 2003 01:18
well i can't actually find any information on the net to the version numbers of FVF, so i kinda assume that it is for now until i'm told otherwise.

the format is a simple one, its in the DBpro help under memblocks but just to help ya out here's the data layout



the faces are made with the groups of 3 Vertex... which can sometimes be less costly, sometimes more costly - but if you had a Square...

i'd be

Header (12byte)

Vertex 1 (~36byte)
Vertex 2
Vertex 3

Vertex 1
Vertex 3
Vertex 4

its quite a cool simple format, and alot of fun to work with

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
indi
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Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 15th Apr 2003 06:58
Hey John, a while back I couldnt load this but this version seems to be ok so I have some catching up to do.

Thanks for making this available it looks impressive now I can see it.

JAT
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Posted: 17th Apr 2003 05:15
I've put up a new release, a step in tying to debug and solidify JTEdit. I'll probably do weekly releases for a little while, as long as I'm making good progress. I've already found some crashing bugs in extruding in what I just released, so watch out, I've still got a ways to go.

-JT

John Thompson
http://www.jtgame.com/jtedit
JAT
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Posted: 18th Apr 2003 00:32
I just refreshed the 0.10 release (no change to the version number or docs) with some fixes for the crashing problems in the extrude tool. Since extruding is pretty crucial, I thought I'd better get it out now rather than latter.

Also, check out a topic in my Tips and Techniques forum about extruding in JTEdit. The extrude tool can be a bit touchy as well as flexible in how it can be used, and this topic will give some tips on using it. The forum is at http://www.jtgame.com/forum.

John Thompson
http://www.jtgame.com/jtedit
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th Apr 2003 06:06
cool so now it's not just shut down on my when i try hehee...
download it in a min to test it out.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
JAT
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2003 08:10
Uh-oh, shut down when you start it, or during use? Any error dialog?

Between job hunting and interviewing, I've been beating on JTEdit, creating a model from start to finish, and while I found some wierdisms I need to fix, I was pleased in that I had not crashes nor ran into anything fatal. Wrapping texture coordinates was a bit screwy, and coming back later and adding a couple of bones made some the vertices jump when I assigned them to the bones. Going back, I couldn't reproduce the latter, so I'm still working on it. I'm also fixing some holes in the add vertices and faces tools, letting you change the depth (Z) with the mouse. My next release will probably be around May 1.

Good news is that I got a job offer today, and I expect another tomorrow, both contracting positions, so I'm in the happy and fortunate but still difficult position of choosing which one.

-JT

John Thompson
http://www.jtgame.com/jtedit
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2003 14:03
(^_^) you get to checkout the teams you'll be working with first?
i'd go with the team that seemed easier to get along with - but if you don't gonna have to think which you'd find more fun

it shut down when i was using it, no warning just poof. however alot of programs have been doing that on my laptop recently. Think i need to reinstall the OS because alot of wierd things have been going on.
Hope you squish all the bugs in JEdit (^_^)

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
JAT
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 22:24
I've just put up a new release of JTEdit, version 0.11. I focused a lot on the add tools (vertices, faces, polygons, frames, and objects), fixing bugs and adding some enhancements for easier or more robust use. I also fixed a number of undo/redo problems, and some wierdisms with the axes, joint, and bone graphics. Plus there's a new sample "Horsie.jtm" model I made while testing.

JTEdit seems more solid than it has been to date, but there's still more bugs so this coming month I'll continue bug fixing. To start with, I've noticed some problems with scaling frames (scaling vertices, faces, and mesh seems okay, though), and some wierd things with texture mapping, but I didn't want to hold up my monthy drop any longer.

Enjoy!

-JT

John Thompson
http://www.jtgame.com/jtedit
JAT
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Posted: 15th May 2003 22:09
I've put up a new alpha release of JTEdit, version 0.12, at http://www.jtgame.com/jtedit. Here's a summary of the bug fixes and enhancements:

- I fixed the mouse cursor stutter by switching to Windows mouse events instead of DirectInput.
- I fixed a problem with scaling frames.
- I fixed the translate tool to transition smoothly when toggling the Ctrl key to switch to depth translation.
- I fixed the texture loading mechanism to strip a file path if a texture can't be found, thus avoiding an error loop.
- I fixed the texture wrapping/mapping tool to handle the bounding image to wrapping parameters mapping more smoothly.
- I fixed a problem loading a saving .x files with more than 3 in the nMaxSkinWeightsPerVertex field. I basically clamped it at 3, as that is all Direct3D supports.
- I added an Actions menu to the main menu. It has an option to bring up the Action palette (in addition to doing so from the Palettes menu), and also has an item for clearing the action/und/redo stack, which can get very large and adversely affect performance and workspace size.

For my next development chunk I'm going to focus on improving the palette window layout management, which is not working real well. Coming soon also will be support for assigning vertex blending weights, and support for additional file formats like .3ds. I also want to add a couple more face subdivision options. Still a ways off are joint parameters and IK support for animations.

Let me know if you run into any problems. I'm sure there are still more problems, but hopefully I'm getting JTEdit closer to a usable state, if I'm not there already.

-John

John Thompson
http://www.jtgame.com/jtedit
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 16th May 2003 07:41
ohohoh did you fixx the reg niggle i had?
i know its stupid, but i kinda prefer the DirectX symbol of the JTE logo

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
JAT
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Posted: 16th May 2003 21:30
Did I fix the what? Please translate--don't forget I'm old.

John Thompson
http://www.jtgame.com/jtedit
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 16th May 2003 23:02
lol... well it used to change all the DirectX .X models to JTE icons (and for the life of me i couldn't change them back)

been checking out the modeling tools i got pretty far, then for some reason when i changed back to camera mode it moaned about something everytime i tired to move the screen then crashed on me.
have the report in my XP Fault Library Online - will grab it later.

but the tools there certainly allowed me to make some pretty good things
slight niggle about the selection, seems a little confusing to me at first - not sure which options to just make sure it selected what i was clicking on. but think i have the hang of it now

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
JAT
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Posted: 17th May 2003 03:02
Yes, I fixed the "reg niggle" not long after you mentioned it.

Yes I would like to know what the problem with the camera mode was.

Thanks for trying it out!

-John

John Thompson
http://www.jtgame.com/jtedit
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 17th May 2003 12:10
oki well i'll grab it in the morning from the site
i'm a lil bored so i'm gonna see what i can make in it ... i'm thinking a dragon.

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th May 2003 10:04
oki lets see... the past few hours i've been using JTEdit quite intensively.

now firstly, when you reload it you seem to get a Last State - so it loads the scene and exactly how it was before you exited (it wasn't before so that might be a bug)

next the tool menu's appear to be all seperate so when you start using a new tool you get another menu, when you have them docked it flickers for a second whilst they change.
I'd suggest perhaps instead having the docked veiw be there constantly and have the current tools simply be a child dialog to that

also i seem to have found a few bugs, one is an annoying veiw bug which i'm not sure why but after about 20-30mins of development whenever i changed to selection most parts of the wireframe would disappear through the picture i was using. Also occasionally when i zoomed or panned a veiw the entire veiw just goes grey (dunno what i do to make it though)

after it started doing that it also seemed to loose tool dialogs and some stopped working without being used as shortcuts - and the copy mesh tool stopped working all together (which has my dev at a standstill)
also the 3D sometimes seems to get a shorter Z depth, and eats half of the model when i zoom in too close.

i'm not sure what parts of the bug report you'd like, as they are pretty big ... so lemme know what section has the data you'll need to see - to be honest MS's bug reports always confused the hell outta me.

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
JAT
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Posted: 20th May 2003 07:25
Thanks Raven!

Quote: "
now firstly, when you reload it you seem to get a Last State - so it loads the scene and exactly how it was before you exited (it wasn't before so that might be a bug)
"


Actually, it's always been this way, but I do need to put in an option to turn it off, and maybe change the default. What do you think the default should be?

Quote: "
next the tool menu's appear to be all seperate so when you start using a new tool you get another menu, when you have them docked it flickers for a second whilst they change.
I'd suggest perhaps instead having the docked veiw be there constantly and have the current tools simply be a child dialog to that.
"


Yes, I'd like to have this smoother. It's especially bad if you maximize the document views. I wish MFC made this more flexible. I wish to be able to have multiple tool parameter palettes up, and have them position themselves nicely when in docking mode. I want also to make a little lock button so you can keep a palette up, even though the tool isn't active. You can still do it by right-clicking the tool, but that's not obvious. I was going to be working on this this month, but I chickened out and started on the .3ds support instead. GUI programming is definately not my strength.

Quote: "
also i seem to have found a few bugs, one is an annoying veiw bug which i'm not sure why but after about 20-30mins of development whenever i changed to selection most parts of the wireframe would disappear through the picture i was using. Also occasionally when i zoomed or panned a veiw the entire veiw just goes grey (dunno what i do to make it though)
"


I have occasionally run into rendering problems similar to this. If you hit this state again, save and exit, and then restart. If upon restarting, if it still does it, if you send me the model and the .jtv file I might be able to reproduce it and fix it easier. Otherwise I'll have to try to reproduce it myself. I suspect I may have a problem with the rendering down in the JTGame code with respect to selections and wireframe.

Quote: "
after it started doing that it also seemed to loose tool dialogs and some stopped working without being used as shortcuts - and the copy mesh tool stopped working all together (which has my dev at a standstill)
"


My guess is that the tool parameter palettes are getting messed up due to some problem in saving and restoring their state from the .jtv file. Deleting the .jtv file might fix it. Or it may be a problem with the registry entries containing the MFC window states, in which case deleting the associated registry keys will fix it--not something for the non-programmer, of course. I need to find the real problem and fix it. I had this problem several months back, but I thought I fixed it. If you have a model and .jtv file that does it, please do send it to me. I might be able to see what's wrong while looking at the loading of it in the debugger.

Quote: "
also the 3D sometimes seems to get a shorter Z depth, and eats half of the model when i zoom in too close.
"


Don't all modelers do this? Perhaps I could limit how close you could bring the camera, but for level editing this, of course, wouldn't apply.

Quote: "
i'm not sure what parts of the bug report you'd like, as they are pretty big ... so lemme know what section has the data you'll need to see - to be honest MS's bug reports always confused the hell outta me.
"


I'm not sure what bug reports you are refering to. Is this some Windows thing? I've really never looked at any reports beyond message box reports. Register dumps and hex stack traces are a bit too low level to be useful.

Thanks again for taking the time to help me out with testing. As I expected, as I pick off the easer bugs to reproduce and fix, what's left are the harder ones.

-John

John Thompson
http://www.jtgame.com/jtedit
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 20th May 2003 10:20
i think the defualt for last state should be off, keeps the workspace clean
as for the UI - if you like i can email you Qoole '99 the source code is pretty good for showing howto interact everything, although it also has some major bugs in loading/saving as well as Render plugin locations it certainly is a good to look over and see how they've achieved everything just for reference.
(also has a pretty cool Boolean set which you might wanna have a look over)

i've zipped up and will email my current model which is causing all of the problems, i can send the background pictures too if you need them for further testing.
if there is a bug file for JTEdit itself then i'll send that rather than sending the MS Error Report, because it does only contain the Hex and point of problem - it is good if you understand what part of the code that it, personally just flys over my head though lol

the camera problem i described isn't the normal zbuffer clipping, as yeah JTE does that too - but what i mean is like say at one zoom depth the whole model is seen, i flick the mousewheel a single position forward then back to how it was originally ... suddenly the near clipping plane seems to be far further forward clipping the model when it shouldn't.
but i'm sure you'll see what i mean in my model.

once this is all figured out i'd like to suggest that perhaps you change or add the option of origin/local pivot points for the Rotation and scaling - i've not really been able to use these tools as they seems to work from the origin point rather than the centre of the selection, and the rotation tool is rather weird in itself how it works ... guessing you've not done too much work on it so far - not urgent just a good note to make on your "to do"

hope this all helps, on the plus side if you can get it so that i can't break it then you'll have some nice stable code there

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
JAT
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Posted: 21st May 2003 05:47
Thanks, Raven. I'll look into these issues once I finish the new format support that I'm in the middle of doing.

Regarding pivot points for rotation and scaling, check the "PivotRelative" check box to enable the pivot-relative transformation. Confusingly, the "Pivot" check box is for allowing you to move the pivot point (represented by the pivot icon in the view) around.

Thanks also for the information about Qoole. I'll look into how they do windows and the booleans. Since Qoole targets the Quake engine, I suspect the boolean operations are based on BSP representations of the objects, which make booleans much easer to do, but I think I heard has the limitation of convex objects only. I'm sure they can still teach me some stuff, though.

-John

John Thompson
http://www.jtgame.com/jtedit
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 21st May 2003 07:34
we'll unless you try to do a sphere with it, then the booleans will work pretty good - although you may want to put in a minor weld vertex after using thiers because the math wasn't good enough and left leaks, not as essential for modelling but kinda annoying when you're mapping

but it should be a good template to base from atleast, and i'll see if i can see the options for the scaling but i think you have another defualt there i'd like to see

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!

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