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FPSC Classic Models and Media / Gettting Back on track with my Character Modelling

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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 27th Aug 2006 21:24 Edited at: 28th Aug 2006 03:50
Everybody knows i'm not the best character modeller, especially with some of the stuff i was making for CorePak vol.2 (by the way, i haven't been working on that for a couple days, I'll explain in a minute)

but my old characters always failed in the eyes of others when i tried to paint the thing myself, rather than just using photos to texture them, some may remember i went over the top after discovering the dodge and burn tool, gradually, you could tend to notice my style for its dark grungy feel, but it wasn't good enough.

falling to some more superior creations, i turned interest to modelling some weapons for volume 2, i got a hang of this, after a while somehow jumping to a new level, for instance, the first weapon made for volume 2, was the famas, looking back now, it isn't the best texture (though it does the job) and i noticed some pretty big gaps in the UV map, which could easily be filled. noticing some recent weapons, they had tightly fitted UV maps with little wasted space and the textures were near perfect (for my standards)

this increase in ability was quite stunning, in such little time, well then, what did this mean for my character modelling? surely the same? (apparently so)

for the past five days, i have been working heavily on a male character concept, a barbarian warrior, almost like a re-vamp of the Knight model i made a while back, but i wanted to work very seriously on this one, as it would be most likely my greatest submission to my new Internet portfolio.

the increase in my ability is peculiar, yet fascinating, i am not stating that i am "perfect" but anyone who has followed my work on these forums would notice the difference.

thus, here it is, the result of five days work...







it was originally inspired by a wonderful model made by Vitaliy Naymushin, for those who visit 3d.sk (don't go there kids, nudity!) would have noticed it in the user works (also where one of bond1's models are )

in this time, i spent quite a bit with the head, making it more dynamic to new features rather than my other character models, like the video tutorial i provided for Higgins once, i started in that method, something i am doing much more commonly now, i even opened up the mouth and made teeth, perhaps for lip sync





i also noticed that i now have an increased confidence in my face painting, i am actually satisfied, they may not be perfect, or simulate near reality, but they are convincing, they fit, and it actually looks like a full face.

all textures were painted from basically nothing in photoshop, no photo-editing, i am very proud of this success, and i am hoping it will be a stunning addition to my portfolio

so what does this mean for my future models? well, that's the thing with corepak, i am no longer satisfied to sell those models as a symbol of my effort, for they neither show my best work, or let alone anything compared to new things to come, so what do i do with them? i could A) release ALL characters from corepak volume 2 for FREE, and keep volume 2 as a weapons pack, thereby making the price fair, or maybe cheaper, or B) just stop now with the characters in the pack, no more characters, the comparison would be stupid if i continued to make more, i would like people to vote for this in there posts as well as any comments (providing your actually reading this rather than skipping all the text! )

Now i ask myself, what made this jump, because i cant suddenly go from that to this in such time, with little character practice, i believe it has something to do with accessing the right hemisphere of the brain, the side which perceives thought, and enhances visual and artistic confidence, the ability to literally just "draw/model what you see" and it is so simple. Some people may be a bit skeptical of these thoughts, so i will discuss no further, reading Betty Edwards wonderful art tutoring books taught me this concept.

to finish, a couple more images, variations, one with a cloak , and a darker more evil desaturated perception of the character...





Comments and critiscm please, also state whether you like the dark desaturated version better than the other, personally i like the darker one, however some people see me as too grungy.

cheers!

EDIT:

i forgot to mention, to conclude...

I offer freelance 3d services to anyone, if interested, please contact me with your offer and request

-Jon


Silvester
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Posted: 27th Aug 2006 21:26
Wow,it looks like it could have bein ripped out of a very high rated RPG!

FPSC-Toolkit in the make.Progress log:
FPSC-Segments 35%---FPSC-Entity 's 0%---FPSC-Signs 0%
FPSC-Decals 0%---FPSC Characters 0%
Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 27th Aug 2006 21:33
thanks, my brother even compared it to some of the renders out of UT2007


Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 27th Aug 2006 21:45
just another render, shows the front details, and the cloak a bit clearer...

im also hoping to create a high res version and export a normal map, if things go well, i might muck it up though.


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Connor Higgins
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Posted: 27th Aug 2006 21:54
COOL!! it looks like it was ripped from elder scrolls oblivion cus thats the kind of models tey use great work

p.s do you have a date core pak 2 will come out n

super cool timmy turner has fairy godparents and i am not a mad science teacher i am a real boy so FAIRIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Disturbing 13
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Posted: 27th Aug 2006 21:54
Very nice man! Most impressive!

SpyDaniel
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Posted: 27th Aug 2006 21:56
High Res? I laughed at that jon, I dont think it needs any thing else doing, its already making my mind go nuts thinking how you uv mapped all of it so good.

You said you had no chance of winning a contest with this? I think if you enter it, your bound to win one of the prizes.
Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 27th Aug 2006 22:02 Edited at: 27th Aug 2006 22:10
thanks guys, really appreciate it.

Uv mapping wasnt too bad, though i found the legs slightly annoying, i couldnt do the usual welded result, because of the bits of armour that stick out of the leg, would overlap other bits, so it was trial and error with the seams, lol

Quote: "You said you had no chance of winning a contest with this? I think if you enter it, your bound to win one of the prizes."


im tempted, but Blizzards art style is FAR too different from this, according to my brother, this is more UT2007/ Doom 3 style/texture look, blizzard goes for a more 'saturated' and classic style to the characters in World of Warcraft, but come to think of it, this 'might' fit in with the look of their cinematics.

so it seems, nobody fully read the first post

i asked people to vote on something, about the corepak volume 2 characters, skim read it again and find out

cheers!

EDIT:

damnit! just read the thread title, put an extra 't' in getting, lol, curse the edit function, for its lack of title editing, you only get one chance


FredP
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Posted: 27th Aug 2006 22:28
Nice job,Jon.

Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 27th Aug 2006 22:29 Edited at: 27th Aug 2006 22:42
cheers fred

i also plan to rig and animate this guy for the redcore demo reel, i think bond gave me some advise one time but i forgot, any tips on rigging so the armour wont deform, i'll have a look around though, see what i can find first


MT Inc
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Posted: 27th Aug 2006 22:38 Edited at: 27th Aug 2006 22:53
this is one of the nicest characters i have ever seen Jon exellent superb work. good job.

cheers,

MTI
Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 27th Aug 2006 22:41 Edited at: 27th Aug 2006 22:42
many thanks MTI

..still, nobody has realised about the vote thing, lets see how many posts we can go before somebody notices, lol


Silvester
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Posted: 27th Aug 2006 22:42
Quote: " A) release ALL characters from corepak volume 2 for FREE, and keep volume 2 as a weapons pack, thereby making the price fair, or maybe cheaper"


i pick this one

i think its the one most chosen

FPSC-Toolkit in the make.Progress log:
FPSC-Segments 35%---FPSC-Entity 's 0%---FPSC-Signs 0%
FPSC-Decals 0%---FPSC Characters 0%
MT Inc
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Posted: 27th Aug 2006 22:43
you welcome, but you really deserved it and the texture is very good .

cheers,

MTI
Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 27th Aug 2006 22:43 Edited at: 27th Aug 2006 22:44
lol, someone noticed ok, thanks Accell, but lets see how this turns out...


MT Inc
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Posted: 27th Aug 2006 22:54
hey did you win the RTS competition from psionic or do you know who did i didnt enter i withdraw my entry because i didnt get to finish the texture. how about you.

cheers,

MTI
FredP
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Posted: 27th Aug 2006 22:55
I agree with Accel Leon.

Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 27th Aug 2006 23:09
ah, i see, so people are fine with there being *less* content in the pack? it would be more organised just with weapons...

PLUS, it would mean a rhythm in a sense, volume 1, entities, volume 2, weapons, volume 3, characters (good ones )

but we'll see some more, from other people


KeithC
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Posted: 27th Aug 2006 23:10 Edited at: 27th Aug 2006 23:13
Looks great Jon. The only thing I can say is that form some reason the hands seem smaller than they should be, when compared to the rest of the forearm.

Releasing the characters for free would definately bring more traffic to your site (make sure you link to your site, and not put them up for download off of the TGC forums); and keeping the packs themed separately seems to be a good idea.

-Keith


Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 27th Aug 2006 23:16 Edited at: 27th Aug 2006 23:16
its probably the dark bit of armour covering half of the hand, the top of the hand (not the palm) goes literally right up against that claw thing on top

but thanks for the tip, might need a bit of tweeking, or could be a perception error


KeithC
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Posted: 27th Aug 2006 23:17
I wasn't sure if it was the hands itself, or the armor on the forearm throwing off my perspective.


Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 27th Aug 2006 23:20 Edited at: 27th Aug 2006 23:20
its a rather confusing aspect, when looking at the front whole body render, the hand on the left seems overcome by the thing that sticks out in the middle, perhaps a texture error, making the hand look lower.

and thanks for the tips on the pack, i'll be sure to link on my site


Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 00:01
just updated my website, now including this model in the gallery, its also my new main header

i really have an urge to go on and make another character, like a beast/orc/goblin who this guy could fight in a demo reel i want to make, though i suppose if i wanted to animate a fight scene, i'd need to suss out visual effects etc. but hey, thats what max is for, gotta learn it sooner or later, least ive got light bloom down


Cut scenes
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 01:10 Edited at: 28th Aug 2006 01:10
dear god and by go i mean you
this is insane i havent seen a character on the 360 thats that pretty
how do you do it is that insane
uhhhhhhhhhhhh
droooooooool
get a job with a gaming company due
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Cut scenes
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 01:12
whats the ploly count
drooooooooooooool
is he normal mapped it looks like it drooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
unnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggghhhhhhhh
ahhhhhhhhhhhhh
its beautiful
Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 01:49 Edited at: 28th Aug 2006 01:50
umm, thanks

i have a game-ready version, thats low poly, or low enough for a game, ive turbosmoothed the body for the render not normal mapped, but im using the texture as a bumpmap aswell for now, unfortunately i cant find out the polycount right now, my computers acting up on me, and cant open dialogs/windows without an error

i'll just restart and find out...


bond1
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 02:09
That is awesome! Is this meant as a strictly portrfolio piece of work, or will you have an FPSC version?

----------------------------------------
"Your mom went to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://hyrumark.zftp.com/FPSC/hyrumarkfpsc.htm
Gangsta Gamesta
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 02:28
Jon find yourself a job serouisly id like to see some games with your models in it ,you model stuff so good and texture you need to find a modeling job as your career your too good you could easily find some sort of game company that needs you

- G 2x
Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 02:28 Edited at: 28th Aug 2006 02:30
well, i could try and get it in for FPSC, it would be nice to see what it would look like, though to be honest the default biped would kinda wreck the whole thing (no offense to the creator, just wouldn't fit this characters style)

i wanted to ask you bond, i recall you mentioning something before, got an idea on how i can rig this fellow, whilst keeping the armour rigid? then i will create a custom biped (hopefully)

edit:

cross posted with Gangsta, thanks for the kind words, hopefully someone will see my website and i can get some freelance jobs, still i have a way to go, i want to practice cinematics, now THAT would be cool


Gangsta Gamesta
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 02:32 Edited at: 29th Aug 2006 03:40
pfft doesnt look like you have any where to its aways professional work i see from you

- G 2x
Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 02:36
thanks, once i get corepak volume 2 sorted, i might hang around a little around some more dedicated places like polycount and CGChat, when i actually get more stuff like this into my portfolio, i'll email some guys asking whether they have any jobs they need doing that they can throw aside for any freelancer

should be cool, much to do though, dont forget, i need something to SHOW, so far its only this, i'll go forward more when i have more to show


tschwarz
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 03:25
Jon,

I did read your entire post . . . I think you should go ahead and release your characters with corepak II or offer it free to people that bought pak I or buy pak II (when ready).

Indeed (teal'c impression) your new character looks much better but, your previous characters were really good also.
Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 03:26 Edited at: 28th Aug 2006 03:28
i know some people may think of this as a rather stupid update, but i added another backlight to the scene, on the left side of the body, bringing up some more highlight, just looks pretty cool...



compare it to the one with one backlight, and theres a small increase in look.

i think im more satisfied with the darker desaturated look, though nobodu has come to say which one looks better

EDIT:

woops, cross posted

thanks for reading the whole post and the idea of giving the characters away for free to those who have bought the first volume widely interests me, thanks for your thoughts


Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 03:56
Wow my god thats awesome, if you were to ever model for me jon, i would love you for ever, Lmfao

www.Disorder-Creations.com
Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 04:15
thanks, im glad everyone is liking it, i cant wait to get started on other projects, though i must not get over-confident


Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 04:24
You need not worry about getting over confident with your skill lol, anyways reply to email please

www.Disorder-Creations.com
Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 04:30
ive replied, actually it is quite a worry, its happened to me before ive gotten over confident and thought i could just "brush straight through the texture" and get it done just like that, cant remember what model it was/were, but now im slightly more aware of sudden flaws when making something


Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 04:35
Do you mind if i ask, whats the polies on this, and how much you would charge for cutscenes, if you would do cutscenes

www.Disorder-Creations.com
Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 04:44
what you are seeing in the renders (only the body however) is the low poly mesh, with a turbosmooth modifier applied, the low-poly mesh looks pretty much the same, just a little sharper on the shoulders at 2248 polygons, perfectly normal for a game, i think blizzard works with 5000, kinda what i was aiming under for this model

cut scenes, are be something i would be extremelly interested in, however at probably a price much larger than the model itself, probably about $300 simply because of the mass amount of detail, animations and cinematic FX, something which i am not very confident in as of yet and am still heavily learning more on.


Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 04:47
Darn, well 300$ is too far out of my budget but ill definitally be contacting you about character and scenery modelling very soon

www.Disorder-Creations.com
Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 04:56 Edited at: 28th Aug 2006 04:57
i look forward to it

though providing on how detailed the visual quality of the cut-scene must be, i could probably go much lower at around $100 for a simple lighting, simple effects cut-scene with very basic lip-sync and movement without any particles, basically like watching an in-game video.

heck, if the model in the cut-scene needed to be the actual game model as well, and already made, perhaps $50

though i cant really put a price on "effects and visual quality" very accurately, I'm still learning, and Ive got so much to learn about Max's cinematic features, in time, it may become common/easy to me, and perhaps prices will differ and the job will be more fluent to me.

cheers for the interest though


Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 04:58
Well what i was talking about was like a games cutscene, it only has to be about a minute to 2 minutes, with terrain,no talking, nothing like that, the only face wise animated, would be expressions for an attack, but yea, i dont know... im more worried about getting characters into it first so maybe this comming friday ill get into buisness with you

www.Disorder-Creations.com
Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 05:08
ah, i see, so almost like the beginning of a battle scene? but anwyay, as you said, we'll just wait and see, i'll let you think further on the subject, and give you some time to consider some thoughts

what are you using to make it? RealmCrafter?


Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 05:11
Sadly enough yes. Lol.

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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 05:13
Well kind of, like an opening scene to the game, like, a battle scene i guess, just something that everyone sees before they first start the game

www.Disorder-Creations.com
Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 05:17
ok, i get it, just like a stunning "walk into the game type thing" just to get the gamer interested in a way

nothing sad about RealmCrafter, i havnt tested it, but all "Drag and drop" game editors get bad opinions from programmers etc. lets not forget FPSC is much alike, it just needs some custom material, and as we can obviously see, thats something you are dedicated to getting


Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 05:22
Yea i dont know , i love RC its just i have a hellish time trying to import stuff, it doesnt like me when i import things lol

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bond1
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 06:37 Edited at: 28th Aug 2006 07:19
Hey Jon, you have several options for rigging this character to a biped. Since it is a mix of rigid armor and organic face and hands, I would still use physique.

For a job like this you will probably want to to manually assign weighting using the "type in weights" function, its really the only option for a character like this. Tedious, but necessary. For the rigid parts, assign 100% weighting to a single bone with no blending. That way the armor will stay rigid even with the FPSC biped. Actually for this model, the only verts that would have blending would be the neck area and hands and elbow area, and possibly the spine to keep it from looking too stiff.

In the biped structure rollout in figure mode you can define the skeleton pretty much any way you want, it will automatically adapt when the animations are applied. And keep in mind that ANY max object can act as a bone, and also be attached to the biped.

For example, for fun I attached two basic cubes to chest area of a biped to simulate breasts. Then I assigned the boxes a spring controller. When applying an animation the breasts will move and bounce realistically, almost TOO realistically if you know what I mean! These can then be rigged to any female type character for example.

----------------------------------------
"Your mom went to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://hyrumark.zftp.com/FPSC/hyrumarkfpsc.htm
Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 20:28
thanks for the pointers bond, i'll play around with it for a while, might get some results, if all goes well, and its rigged nicely, i'll be able to make my demo reel


Ysengrin
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Posted: 28th Aug 2006 22:44
Man this is awesome! It's really a impressive model! Now: I will open a Jon Fletcher Fan Club!

"When there is no-more room in Hell, then the dead will walk the Earth"-Dawn of the Dead

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