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FPSC Classic Product Chat / FINALY!!! The first official update is a fact!

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Benjamin A
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 02:21
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It's all in the current news letter! http://www.thegamecreators.com/data/newsletter/newsletter_issue_44.html

The best news is that the next update will have load and save features!!!!

TGC, thank you so much for this update and the great news!

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
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Silent Thunder
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 02:25
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lol i just came here to post something likethis i guess you beat me to it lol. Yea finally TCG is focusing on FPS Creator!!!

Quote: "Things in the land of FPS Creator are certainly heating up. We are working on a wide range of developments within our research labs and for the best part of 2006 we have focused on the DarkBASIC Professional range of products. It's now time to focus on FPS Creator. Over the next few weeks we will be developing new fixes to the core FPSC product and also adding in a 'load' and 'save' game feature. For now this is all the news we plan to make public, but we do see FPS Creator as a very important development tool and will expand it further. More news of this will be revealed when we feel the time's right, but for now check out the first upgrade below."


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Benjamin A
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 02:30
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Just wondering..... what's the flak bug? They've fixed it, but that does flak mean?

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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 02:33 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2006 02:48
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Flak is what the bazooka fires. It must fix the amount you can fire, or the bouncing bug where it hits walls and blows up too soon when its only meant to blow when it hits an entity.
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 02:35
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I see, thanks for explaining.

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Jiffy
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 03:55
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Great news indeed. I suppose I can only dream that in the next update TGC will fix the Story Zone bug so I don't have to seperate Project Luna into episodes.


Evil has a new name. Demo out now!
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Steam Assassin
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 04:16
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Awesome! I'm so excited!


I used to have one of those signs, but then realized how annoying it was...
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uman
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 04:24
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Glad you all have some good news at last.

Jiffy,

hang on in there.



"I am and forever will be your friend"
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Lucifer
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 04:40
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Even though i dont use fpsc anymore i still downloaded it fantastic news

Tíhí..
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Godrich13
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 06:46
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After I downloaded the patch, it wouldn't let me build the levels! This sucks!

Linux Rocks.
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Thraxas
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 07:45
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It worked fine for me... I'm glad save/load is on the cards, maybe it will stop every other post being "How can I save & load my game" or "New Save/Load feature comming soon"...

I wonder if the new version will fix the "waypoing" typo...

I don't want to see a FPSC Professional!
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Walking Dead Productions
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 08:18
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Quote: "After I downloaded the patch, it wouldn't let me build the levels! This sucks!"


Have you updated your DirectX?

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gps
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 09:26 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2006 09:27
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Quote: "After I downloaded the patch, it wouldn't let me build the levels! This sucks!"


Yep, you need the very latest version of DirectX 9c (assuming that the error message you get mentions something about DirectX)

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/directx/default.mspx

Hope this helps.

- Graham

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Cat scratch
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 09:38
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Oh, I didn't even know there where those bugs...
Anyway this is great. Hopefully the next version with save/load comes out soon. I can't develop games with FPSC at the moment because you can't save.

Watch out or we will scratch you!
http://www.catscratches.net.tc/
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Gemstone Games
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 10:27
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I think that's the one thing keeping people from going full-scale, Cat. But at least it'll be here soon. And from the sound of it, a lot sooner than we thought.

Formerly JMC...
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bdgbdg
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 11:44
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Finaly an update. For me I think I just need 3 things for the game... Save and Load system; Story-Zone bug corrected; Cut-scene maker.

But allies and cars would also be nice...

Project FPS - started development.
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Gemstone Games
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 11:58
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What's the story-zone bug?

Formerly JMC...
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bdgbdg
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 12:18 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2006 12:22
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You can't put a Story-Zone on level one and other on level 2 for example, the game crashes...


EDIT: This update is slower that V 1, isn't it?

Project FPS - started development.
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MaarX
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 12:23 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2006 12:23
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OMG, how do I know if my version is updated now... I installed the patch... But when I go in FPSC, and then Help> About it says V1.0!!!

Why is that? Is it upgraded, or isn't it?

Thanks,

MaarX
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00bk
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 14:01
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Now all we need to know is when the next update is coming out... lol :p


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uman
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 14:09 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2006 14:22
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bdgbdg,

Quote: "This update is slower that V 1, isn't it?"


Yes around 50% slower I regret to have to say.


Quote: "Now all we need to know is when the next update is coming out."


Hopefull TGC will be in no hurry to release any further updates and will take whatever time is necessary reverse the current situation of significantly lower fps than V1 to a situation of significantly faster fps than V1 by about the same order of magnitude.

I would hope they will forget about any other improvemanets or additions until this is adressed and tested thouroughly.

I cannot imagine why they would have wished to release this update in the first place if they were aware of the situation with the lower frame rate and gameplay speeds of this Update. Its beyond my comprehension to be honest.



"I am and forever will be your friend"
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Nighthawk
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 14:22 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2006 14:23
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Quote: "Yes around 50% slower I regret to have to say."


will that be fixed, too?

EDIT: ok.. i was to slow

--- This is not the best English, i'm from Germany
My System: Dell Dimension 5000, Intel P4 530J 3,0 GHz, 1GB DDR2 RAM, Sapphire Radeon X1900GT, BenQ FP71E+, No Fans - Thermal-Module
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uman
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 14:33 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2006 14:35
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Nighthawk,

Sorry I am not privy to TGC plans for FPSC at all and have no idea.

All I can say is I dont think any game engine developer in general would be happy to have a product with such poor fps performance and gameplay speeds or seriously expect users to use the product and make any decent games with it. They needed the engine speeds to be faster not slower.

I dont think many will use FPSC if this situation is not reversed so I believe TGC will do so for everyones benefit both developer and user alike.



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RickV
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 15:40
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It's probably an easy fix, I'll get Lee onto it on Monday. We didn't notice.

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[Check out Jed McKenna - http://www.wisefoolpress.com/]
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FredP
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 15:44
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bdgbdg,
I would seriously doubt that TGC would include a cutscene maker in any FPSC update.
Due to the nature of cutscenes themselves they would almost have to be made outside of FPSC and imported into FPSC.
Uman,
Are you saying that when the upgrade is installed that FPSC is 50% SLOWER?
I already have speed issues.If FPSC slows down much more it is going to look like an fps slide show instead of an fps game.

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uman
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 15:50
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RickV,

Thank you for the quick response which is much appreciated.

Its easily missed in simple test levels you wont notice any difference as the fps was always good.

It the large kinda finished levels which have a lot of content respond very badly.

Good news about the Serious Lagg issue in specific areas though which seems to be gone.

If we can get overall fps back up to acceptable gameplay speeds it will make a big difference to future game making with FPSC now that the SLI seems to be gone - hopefully for good.

Thanks again.



"I am and forever will be your friend"
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uman
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 15:58 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2006 16:03
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FredP,

Yes up to 50% slower and more. i.e. 26fps-32fps in V1 and 8fps steady in V.101

Read my posts and by others in the Bug Reports Forum. I made a sticky there.

Other users are getting the same results or worse and unistalling the update - Jiffy had 0 fps

Quite obviously it will vary user to user and dependant upon level complexity - there were other issues too like the player falling through the floor to a camera hieght of just above the ground and staying there so you could not move further through a level. That could be caused just by the very low fps affecting collison I dont know. I tested out another level and the player collision was not affected but the fps was around one third lower than in V1 - however the good news is that the serious lagg issue spots were gone to be replaced by a more genearl overall speed albeit lower than in V1.

Simple levels you wont notice much difference - but few finsihed games would not suffer a considerable loss of fps I would think.

Hope that helps.

I would be pleased and interested to know how the Update affects our particular levels if you are concerned about the fps.



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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 16:03
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How come the fps is capped at 33fps? Couldnt you up it to some thing more gameable, such as a nice 125fps?
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uman
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 16:20
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Higgins,

I have suggested and asked TGC many times in the past to remove not only this fps cap but all imposed limits and restrictions and leave all such decision making to the level designer.

Apparently it seems it is not their policy to give users that kind of freedom with the product for reasons known only to TGC - they dont seem to agree that such matters should be left in the hands of users perhaps because it leaves the product open more to level design abuse and the problems that can throw back, but I'm only guessing, at least they have never removed any such restrictions or commented favourably - or at all.

I do believe they have their reasons though its all specalative on my part so is not worth a pinch of salt.

We can ask again here if you like that TGC remove the fps cap limit and give users the ability to set the max fps themselves as seen as appropriate to their own particular game requirement - but I am not sure that TGC would look favourably on the request.

And as I'm at it and in case TGC should forget - that would please include the Map Object Limit and AI Scipt Limits which are causing me havoc - scuse the pun.



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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 16:32
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If TGC do not like users to enter a very high fps which would cause problems or errors on other users systems, then why not have a max fps selector, such as having:

25
30
45
50

these would be in a drop down menu. This would stop any issues they may have with allowing too high of a fps. Iam not sure, but if some one set the fps to 10000, wouldnt the game run in slow motion?
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uman
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 16:44 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2006 16:48
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Whatever the issues TGC are aware of them. They know about games and Game making just as we do. There are various factors involved to be fair.

I must presume TGC have their reasons for a cap and I can understand them perhaps but nevertheless dont understand why its set quite so low as they dont say specifically.

A starting cap of 33 does not give a user much leeway as fps drops off as they add content to their game - you can quickly get a drop off to unacceptably low fps gameplay speeds.

Of course if the cap were to be higher I am not sure that would help if the engine is so inefficient it cant handle higher fps and generate the sustaining of that. That may be enough reason in itself to make any removal or adjustment to the cap to a higher level of no use in actual gameplay. We dont know beacuse we have the current cap and cant test out anything different.

Anyway its all a non starter for 10 until TGC fix this V1.01 and bring the fps back up or it wont matter what the cap is set at I presume.

We need to be patient and wait some more and trust in TGC to do the right things even if we dont undertstand or are not given reasons for what they do.

The differences in ways that engines control fps and how they set them as time or frame based is a complex issue not really for endless debate here.



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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 16:59
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I play a lot of the free RTCW Mod, Enemy territory, so I understand how fps works, with at least the quake engine.

The only thing I can think of that TGC have capped the fps at 33, is that they dont want people producing a high end game. But that sounds silly, why make a cheap game creator if you dont want people to make good games?
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bond1
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 17:09
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@uman:

You and others who have made extensive levels should contact TGC to form a beta test team. Maybe there is already one in place, I don't know, but a few more people to test new updates couldn't hurt.

----------------------------------------
"Your mom went to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://hyrumark.zftp.com/FPSC/hyrumarkfpsc.htm
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Silent Thunder
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 17:14
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that's weird, i didn't notice any slowdowns with my games i wonder why

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Darth Valtar
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 17:15 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2006 17:16
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Higgins,FredP,Uman. Thank you for being here on the ball. And on behalf of the others behind me, Thank you RickV for responding so quickly to our problems with the patch. Good day.
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MaarX
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 17:16 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2006 17:18
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lol...Cool that there is a patch out

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uman
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 17:44
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bond1,

I was a beta tester for V1.

In this instance TGC have not yet asked or invited anyone from these forums to beta test any Update as far as I am aware. I may be wrong.

They would surely have done so if that was their ploicy and they had a need.

TGC are aware I am sure that I would respond positively as I have done previously.

Pesronally however I do not feel it would be appropriate to approach TGC with such a suggestion.

Such matters are for TGC to decide if and when they indeed seek the help of FPSC users in testing any FPSC updates.



"I am and forever will be your friend"
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Jordan Siddall
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 18:01
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A. My FPSC still won't load custom textures.
B. When I want soemthing to spawn sideways with a trigger zone, it still spawns stood up.

This bug fix update is disappointing.

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xplosys
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 18:23 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2006 18:24
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Last month when TGC announced only model packs and no update, some people here went berserk about continuing to add content to a program in need of fixes/updates. This month I think they fixed their PR problem by announcing an update to the program with more model packs, however after reading the immediate responses to the update, I am beginning to get a little discouraged myself.

I think the program is amazing for what what it does and have been very patiently awaiting an update. I personally don't think that an update is terribly overdue and I am perfectly willing to wait longer if need be. I Also realize that another one is in the works and hopefully not far behind.

Anyway, when I read the news letter my hopes were high and I immediately considered buying the new model pack. Everything seemed right with the world. Now I think I will hold off on the purchase and wait to see what comes next. At the moment it seems that we are back to more model packs and no updates.

Signed, slightly discouraged but not ready to give up.

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uman
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 18:46
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xplosys,

Have you tried the new Update?

You may find it works OK for you - then again you might not.

I am sure your feedback at these forums on what the results are would be of help to TGC and maybe users too.



"I am and forever will be your friend"
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xplosys
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2006 19:43
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Yes, I tried it.

1) Completely uninstalled FPSC/removed FPSC directory.
2) Updated DirectX
3) Restarted system
4) Installed FPSC V1
5) Updated FPSC to V1.0.1
6) Restarted system

In order to keep things fair, I used the included SciFi game that comes with FPSC. FPS ran between 8 and 20 on average. FPS while standing still was normal (32/33), and while looking around FPS dropped dramatically. There were spurts of speed and time when FPS nearly stopped.

Regardless of any improvements or issues which may have been fixed, or new issues which may have arisen, this is not usable in it's present state. I'll just have to wait to see what they do with it.
System Specs:
AMD Athlon64 3000+, 1GB (2x512) dual-channel, 256MB ATI Radeon X600 PCIe, 120GB Seagate SATA/90% free

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Gemstone Games
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2006 01:21
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Now I'M having some problems. Some of the models I've got (including, sadly, some of D13's works I recently got) show nothing but white, any time I TRY to use an alternate texture on a model it doesn't even take (some took before, but now I'm not able to adjust any of them), and the last two times I've tried to build, I get something about either the item not being in the program or an update on DX9 necessary. I've already updated my DX9 to make sure the second issue was taken care of, but like other users, I did notice a bit of a slowdown in the process; tasks that would have taken just a few seconds before now have me waiting for a good two or three minutes, and I'm on a comp that's less than a month old!

Not that I'm bashing the update, it's about time we got one of these...but in reality, these were issues that most of us either weren't aware of or didn't care about. I think the FPSC guys should have waited until they had a few needed things fixed first and made sure this didn't affect the program's performance before they released this one.

Formerly JMC...
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bdgbdg
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2006 01:23
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I think TGC rushed the release of the patch due to recent complaints.

But I belive the next update will be much better.

Project FPS - started development.
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Gemstone Games
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2006 01:29
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That's mainly what I mean--this update seemed a little rushed on all counts, as it didn't really have anything that was noticably wrong on most parts. A few complained about flak, but overall, I think this could have easily been combined with the second update that's coming.

Formerly JMC...
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Walking Dead Productions
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2006 01:29
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Yeah I had never heard of any of these bugs either:

Quote: " * Scorch Decal bug fixed
* Save executable now keeps the entity textures that use built-in texture filenames
* Fixed flak bug
* Object DLL updated for FPSC fixes (U6.3)
* Fixed bug caused by window smashing changing scale of regular decal usage
* Fixed material system so it can now handle materials 11-99 properly
* Fixed culling bug caused when a door opens into another areabox and is culled too soon
"


Hopefully, the next update will fix more major bugs that everyone knows and cares about.

When there's
no more room in HELL
the dead will walk the EARTH
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Candle_
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2006 01:36
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Thats why I'm never the first to do an update.
Better to wait and see what happens to others.

Candles freebies
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electric chihuahua
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2006 01:42
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Hi

Thanks for the update. Too bad for the bugs. It's still a step in the right direction.

Can they program a "regulator" of sorts to address the fps issue? There must be a way to sample the frame rate and automatically adjust itself up and down to maintain a constant 30 fps. As content is added and the level grows, the engine could adjust itself to deal with the frame drop. That is a way they could address the problem without removing the 30fps cap. I don't know programing so I don't know if this would work. I thought I'd toss the idea out there and see what you think.
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Les Horribres
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2006 09:20
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I hate non-programmers... hate hate hate, always have to translate the improvements.

Quote: "Save executable now keeps the entity textures that use built-in texture filenames "

In other words, the smart people who love making models with multiple textures now don't have to manually copy them over (If I read right)

Quote: "Object DLL updated for FPSC fixes (U6.3)"

IOW: FPSC now is fully uptodate with DBP giving it advantage due to whatever DBP has now.

Quote: "Fixed material system so it can now handle materials 11-99 properly "

I do not comprehend this exactally, but the material system, I believe, is something that defines the bulletdecals, sound made when walking, bullet hit sound, and stuff.

Quote: "Fixed culling bug caused when a door opens into another areabox and is culled too soon "

In other words, Attempted Speed Improvement.

Your Mod was deleted by the Government.
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FredP
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2006 10:17
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Quote: "In other words, Attempted Speed Improvement."


I installed the patch.There was no speed improvement.As a matter of fact it was quite the opposite.
I had a variety of bugs when I tested and built different levels.
All of which worked fine before I installed the patch.
It took me eight hours to get FPSC back into the condition it was before I installed the patch.
The fact is that the patch in the state it is in does not work.

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Les Horribres
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Joined: 20th Nov 2005
Location: My Name is... Merry
Posted: 3rd Sep 2006 10:32 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2006 11:32
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hence "attempted" but if you read umans post on the matter he claims that areas that once in massivly slow FPS are no longer slow.

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