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3 Dimensional Chat / Main Character model test

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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 15:25 Edited at: 14th Apr 2003 15:45
I decided to remake a game I wrote when I was 11, called
'Lester the Panty Theif' The retro compo got me thinking 'bout this.

Here's Lester, (the textures are rough, and mapped planar for now)


Oh yeah, I want to know if he disgusts you, or makes you laugh, or both

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Dave J
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 15:50
Definately both. =D

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Redostrike
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 16:13
It a cool guy. Creepy but cool. What program did you use?

Only heroes live forever
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 16:16
i think we should have a rule around here that your not allowed to ask that question

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Arrow
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 16:46 Edited at: 14th Apr 2003 16:46
Why not? We like to know what programs people use so that if it's a low-cost one, we got an idea of it's possiblities.

The Legend of Zelda IS NOT an RPG! It's an Adventure, just like Ico or Dark Cloud.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 17:02
ya know the problem is even when we say "i made this earlier in maya it too me a few hours... blah blah"

you'll still see one gormlass idiot say "what did you make this in?"
i don't think it matters what WE made this in cause it doesn't many any of you will be able to use the program any better.

if it was made in some obscure unknown product, then we'll say - most people do unless it was made in Max, Maya, Lightwave or Softimage - because quite frankly it is obvious and even when its not, most of ya'll can only get them through pirating.

this is why i think people shouldn't be allowed to ask what we make things in. if we wanna say, we'll say, if not don't ask as it is very irritating.
it could have a big banner down the bottom saying "Rendered within 3D Studio Max 4" and people will still go, "so what did you make this in?"

very patience trying

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
actarus
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 17:02
-Why not? We like to know what programs people use so that if it's a low-cost one, we got an idea of it's possiblities


Probably because every software that can make primitives such as cubes/boxes and also have point editing IS sufficient to carve a model...

Caught by the Fuzz,well I was,still on my buzz
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Redostrike
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 22:51
EXCUSE ME Raven!!!!!!!!!! I'm just curios whit what program it is made.

'most of ya'll can only get them through pirating'

Who is the pirat now???

Only heroes live forever
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 23:29
you honestly going to tell me you're willing to spend $3,200 on a hobby? because quite frankly even i've been reserved about purchasing the 3D Studio Max 5 and i have to use it for work.

most fo ya'll bitch how DarkBasic Professional is too much, so how exactly in this same wave can you actually afford to buy a $3k product and not make a noise about it?
i mean Christ i can get a pretty decent 2nd hand car for that! or thats 2 months rent... EVEN in my area!!

i just honestly don't see many of you guys spending that much money on a product that quite frankly won't make you model any better because you need the skill there in the first place.
if we say what we use, we say - else why the hell bug us about it every damn'd post!

for gods sake most of us use the same products over and over and over again and WE STILL get asked like years on!
and it is getting right on my tits... as Actarus said, any stupid program can make a block and edit it - it's the users which turn it into something good, not the blasted program.
why don't you invest some time in trying out all the FREE versions of programs and decide which ones you like because at the end of the day it ISN'T US who are going to be using that program IT IS YOU! so YOU ARE the one who has to enjoy using it.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Arrow
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Posted: 15th Apr 2003 02:50
Well pardon me, forgive me for not being abill to tell a Lightwave model from a Maya. Yes, this is a hobbie but some of us may want to invest that kinda money into it so that it may become a carear. Their are strengths ang weaknesses in all the 3D tools out there, by knowing what was used we may see how they show up in the final render or how the artist worked around them. In any case, this is one of those things that don't really deserve a whole forum discution over. There are many things that bug me but I don't try to make rules against them, I just let it go. You should try it some time.

The Legend of Zelda IS NOT an RPG! It's an Adventure, just like Ico or Dark Cloud.
bitJericho
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Posted: 15th Apr 2003 03:05
quite good hes very eerie in that comedic sort of way.... i especially like the drool, exactly what you would expect a panty thief to look likeO_o

btw, i know it's rather personal...but...i just *hope* he's wearing something under that trench coat

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 15th Apr 2003 03:41
hahaa Jerico, i can assure you he is not

and Arrow i've put up with that blasted question in every freaking model post i've seen in this forum, and i'm sick of it.
Why in gods name can't ya'll just accept that if we wanted you to know we'd say.

and its not the render engine which makes a 3D Package, its the modeling ablities which you can use to your hearts content with the freebie versions.
the fact that ya'll think you can pickup the modeling abilities of a product from a Render is just so stupid its not even funny.
not to mention every artist has a different style of work, so what i could achieve within Max might not be what Dan can and visa-versa.

this is why i hate people asking about products, becuase no matter what you know about a product you're looking at this post thinking well if he can use that then i can achieve the same ... and we'll only get a post a little while later with them crying for help within a program they've spent all that money on but can't bloody use!

i've constantly posted up the links to the free versions of what we all use and maybe there should be a sticky link for them, but i think it shouldn't be out place to get harassment over what program we use, what we use to render (because most of us don't even use the built in Render engines!) what plugins we use for the effects we achieve, how we achieve the affects.

just accept that this is bloody art and we want your opinion not to give you the life history of the bloody thing... geez

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 15th Apr 2003 05:01
Arrow speaks the true. Banning certain questions is well...STUPID. Just ignore it. If you've done any 3d modelling, a good view of the wireframe gives off solid clues to someones modelling ways. Yes different people model differently. It doesnt mean we can't glean tips and ideas. You dont like it tough, not everyone has reached your enlightned level of total understanding.

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 15th Apr 2003 06:23 Edited at: 15th Apr 2003 07:06
hehehe, well I bought a secondhand max 3.5 licence back when I was in art school, cost me a few hundred, $AUD from a friend. Well worth it and cheap enough for a serious hobbiest and good enough for a professional. I'm sure there are better modelers out there, my brother uses xsi, maya seems popular and my cousin was forced to buy that as it was compulsory for the course he entered recently. But as mentioned above, great results are possible with any modeller capable of point(vertex) manipulation, which means I could have done this in milkshape just as easily. I textured it with a mixture of photoshop and 3D.Texturizer which I wrote and is free and you can download it on the program announcements board.

Like I said I'll redo the textures though.

More interesting to people should not be "what program do you use"
But "what method do you use"
Answer: I wrote this game years ago, and so I've got all the 2d sprites from that in 32x32 pixel format. I made a 32x32 plain in max, texturesd it with the front view of lester, cloned that plane and rotated it around the y(z in max) axis 90degrees and textured this clone with the side view of lester.
Then I made a box primative, gave it a few subdivisions which matched roughly to points on lester, which were already very obvious due to the pixelation of a 32x32 image.
I collapsed the box to an editable mesh, something you probably don't need to do in milkshape, then started moving vertex points around in first the side view then the front view. I destroyed all of the faces on one side of his head in the front view.
Later, when he was close to the right shape, I mirrored the model to give him the other side of his face, welded coincident vertices, removed unnessecary faces and assigned smoothing groups to define his ears, nose and mouth, then put a planar UV map on him in the front view. Same process for his body and legs/feet. He currently totals 656 poly's.

I used textporter to make a template image of his face front on.
I exported him as a .3ds, though you could use .x and then opened him in 3D.Texturizer, and opened the 2d textported image into 3D.Texturizer also. I drew his face on roughly, then saved this new skin, and opened that in photoshop. I worked on it a bit, then back in max applied this skin, then reworked the vertx points, and did one more lot of the above process. Before I'm happy with him, I may do that 10 or more times, but I've got the feel I want from his expression, and the fidgety kind of hands in pockets look I wanted from this dirty old man

The next stage is to UV map him properly, and get the skin to fit the stretched and flattened 3d mapping. Like I said, he's only mapped planar right now, so if you were to turn him round, you'd see eyes in the back of his head

Surely that's more help than knowing what program I used?

Thanks for the comments too
[edit]

Actarus:
Yeah raven watched this develop 'cos I was instant messaging him from start to finish, and sort of used his lol's and rotfl's to guage how dirty I was makin' him, and at the moment, he doesn't even have a body under that coat, 'cos when he flashes, you'll see him from behind anyhow. Ther's more pics on raven's forum 'cos I was uploading him there, also a pic of the original sprites from an earlier 2d version there in the gallery section

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Redostrike
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Posted: 15th Apr 2003 14:16 Edited at: 15th Apr 2003 14:17
K. Sorry in the futer i'll ask for the method and not for the program. I like your method Danmatsuma it a really good trick.

RAVEN:
I shall edit my q now: How did you make it. Woow thats great. Tell me your method? HAPPY NOW???

Only heroes live forever
Dave J
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Posted: 16th Apr 2003 03:39 Edited at: 16th Apr 2003 03:40
You may have already answered this but what program did you use exactly?





P.S. I'm just kidding Raven

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 16th Apr 2003 04:13
:: Raven grabs his trusty P90's Akimbo and looks up how much it'll cost to fly to Aussie ::

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 16th Apr 2003 06:23
*lol* hehee watch out Exeat I'm already here, and I prefer a plastic spoon to guns...

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 16th Apr 2003 08:41
... watch out he has the Rusty Spork of Doom!

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Dave J
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Posted: 16th Apr 2003 11:22
No, anything but the spork!!

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
bitJericho
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Posted: 16th Apr 2003 23:41
Quote: "'cos when he flashes"


*looks at his feet, slowly rotating his head back and forth* I knew you were gonna say that...

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John H
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Posted: 17th Apr 2003 00:29
Hey guys, its fine to ask what program its made in. Not everyone knows Raven you need to consider that there are some newer users on these forums and not all experienced DBers and 3D modellers.

RPGamer

Current Project: Eternal Destiny
Tech Demo - Colan Island: Currently 716 Lines
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 17th Apr 2003 01:31
*tehee* *giggle* *looks at the screen, slowly rotating his head up and down*

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 17th Apr 2003 02:55
RPG i wouldn't mind if it was once in a while, but its atleast once a blasted post... EVEN if they post something like...

"Oh i made this model in Max5, man i like the new lighting effect. Whaddaya think all?"

and peopel reply
"Cool. What did you make it in?"

i just think it should be a common courtsey to just not ask... i mean i don't go around take one look at someone code and go, "So erm what did you make this in?"
oki so it would be more obvious with the code, but the point still remains that if i did that to everyone who posted in the code snippets it would very quickly start to piss everyone off.

i mean why can't we just show of work to show off work, not give everyone the blasted life history of it?
you can't just post work and say "Anyone got any comments on this? You like it? Think it looks Perverted enough?"

without one person replying "So what was this made in?"
how in the hell is that a constructive comment, especially as the only other comment they usually make is "Cool" or "Nope", ya know a simple one word answer.
this is why i don't show work on here much cause i know rather than something useful being said i'd get a tonne of posting asking me what i made it in ... like somehow that matters to me if i made it in Max, Maya or Lightwave. Cause to me its work i'm showing off, and oftenly i do say and i still get blasted well asked.

don't think it's alot to ask for people to just not ask that one question all the bloody time.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 17th Apr 2003 06:51
Yeah 'specially since it's only a real rough 2 hour model, like a sketch. Just wanted to know how he made people feel, as a character, so I could guage if I was on the right track, I mean simple 'cool' or 'shite' comments are better than none at all, but I'd prefer constructive critisism

I'll explain.
Whether you are a beginning modeller or an experienced artist, you should be able to look inside yourself and see how an image makes you feel. It's important not to get 'blown away' by the technology at work, and just listen to your gut sometimes, if you don't do this your own work will suffer too.

In retrospect, I might have been better off posting this in a public forum that had nothing to do with games creation, 'cos then people wouldn't be looking at it from that angle, and would be free to be affected by the image itself.

This is not meant to offend btw, I just noticed that it's a lot like art school 'round here, people learning about the tools of the trade and such. What you learn over time is that said tools are completely unimportant, what counts is the idea, and how emotively that idea is rendered. I remember people arguing about brush sizes and choice of canvas and thinking, what the hell is going on here? The same thing goes on to a certain extent on these forums, and it's a bit counterproductive at times, but it is something you grow out of as you gain confidence in your own ability.

Something I was thinking the other day is that with the march of technology, the fundamental problems facing an artist have not really diminished. For instance, if I was to have the idea of creating an image to shock and disgust, yet say something about society at the same time, could I not be better off getting a hammer and chisel, and making a wooden sculpture to place in the middle of the local park?
It's possible. But I do like the freedom of this medium - electronic.
It has the possibility to do anything an imagination tells it to.

Every single person's opinion is valid, not just the accomplished modellers, but only if you respect your gut emotion more than the part of you that wants to learn and say's 'wish I could do that'.

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
CorruptionsMyth
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Posted: 17th Apr 2003 07:29
hes a pimp and i think he will go great with a game thats about him stealing panties

Arrow
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Posted: 17th Apr 2003 07:44
Hmm, well he looks like a great Pervert, but a panty raider, no. When I think of a panty raider I think of a slim tall guy not unlike those cartoon buglars, but with a pair of black lase panties on his head. Ya know, with the leg holes over his eyes, kinda looks like the human fly. Just my two cents.

The Legend of Zelda IS NOT an RPG! It's an Adventure, just like Ico or Dark Cloud.
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 17th Apr 2003 08:21
*LOL*, maybe Lester needs a partner in crime hehehe

He's more of a flasher than a panty raider, though he collects panties for points. Like I said I was very young when I wrote the original, and I just thought "Lester the Panty Theif" sounded better than "Lester the Flasher",hehehe.

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
bitJericho
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Posted: 17th Apr 2003 08:23
i think he plays the perfect part of a panty theif lol...

short, pudgy, ugly, and naaaaaasty......

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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 17th Apr 2003 08:31
I'll be giving him like a santa claus sack to stuff all the panties into, just sussed out morphing with memblocks in dbc/enhanced so I can get his coat to smoothly morph open and closed and make the sack grow...

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
bitJericho
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Posted: 17th Apr 2003 12:07 Edited at: 17th Apr 2003 12:09
sweet deal..can't wait to play this game

I asked my gf what she thought of the panty theif..without telling her what it was...as she is not a modeler, or know anything of the subject...she can give you a accurate critique^_^

Quote: "
it is cool
looks like a scientist
i think it looks good he did a really nice job on it..
"


she didn't guess it was a panty thief^_^ but a scientist is close i suppose

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 17th Apr 2003 14:18
he does look like Professor Edison from DOTT

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
arras
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Posted: 17th Apr 2003 15:25
Its good , I like especialy the way you simplyfied model. Good job.
Also...texture is not bad neighter... [b]) .
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 17th Apr 2003 15:40
Jericho2day:
Yeah, going by some of the scientists I know, she's probably right *lol*

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 29th Apr 2003 12:02 Edited at: 29th Apr 2003 12:13
An updated pic, this time with a little old lady...

No shadowing
Little old Lady is made of 546 faces.
Lester is made of 636 faces.

This is the only time anyone will ever see Lester flashing front on, in game it is 3rd person perspective from behind Lester. The mosaic was added in photoshop to protect the innocent...

tehee
The textures still need work, and I may yet UVmap Lester again, 'cos his ears are squished, and though you can't see them when they're in his pockets, his hands need definition also.

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Eponick
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Posted: 29th Apr 2003 15:22
Ahaha, creepy old lester

Bah, im new to 3D modeling. I have MiskShape 3D..Very confused about how to texture something without it textuing it again on the back

Danmatsuma
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Posted: 29th Apr 2003 15:44
Eponick: The way I do it is quite complex and involves a lot of forethought. Simple planar mapping as you describe is like projecting an image at the mesh, from only one direction. Simply put, what you have to do is warp the mesh first, so as much of it as possible is facing forwards.
Then you apply your planar map, then warp the mesh back to it's original form by retrieving a version of the mesh saved before you warped it, and using that as a morph target. There are other ways, and tutorials are all over the net.

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Dave J
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Posted: 29th Apr 2003 16:55
Oh Dear God!

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 29th Apr 2003 19:14
God can't protect you from Lester, Exeat, hehehehe

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 29th Apr 2003 21:54
there is nothing like this over at my forum... so depraved and disgusting - you gonna post it up there later?
i've seen several UVmapping techniques within Milkshape, and infact mete added the Unweld polygons specifically for that task.

the best way to UVmap in Milkshape is to start with the veiw which shows the most of the model, and from there you then take the mext section you want to still be in perspective and drag it out ... its probably not the most effective technique - but is pretty simple.
Only problem is unless you have a good eye you end up with quite a few warps ... but after putting a Chequre pattern across the model, you can find out where it is bad and where it is acceptable

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 30th Apr 2003 08:10
Raven: Yeah I'll put something up there but I forgot my password, when it gets resent I'll log back in

I just registered Milkshape, so I've been toying with it, Very nice little program, I especially like the way it doesn't unweld .3ds file vertices on import/export Can't wait to see Milkshape 2.0

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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 30th Apr 2003 12:38 Edited at: 30th Apr 2003 12:41
Here's another little shot, This time just the little old lady. I've decided to do most of the animations for 'Lester the Panty Theif' in milkshape, mainly 'cos I'm having so much fun with it like I did when I first got truespace or max, and also because the program is so streamlined I can run it on a cheapo laptop



The texture is just roughly blocked in, I don't wanna go too much further on her yet 'cos I need to add a handbag and walking stick. She may get a miniature pincher dog as a companion... Maybe I'll make it so you can scare it into losing it's eyeballs

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 30th Apr 2003 13:18
you should've told me... the forum email is just really slow and you could be waiting a good day or two (sometimes it only takes seconds, god knows what lycos is playing at)

if you get on msn i can just change the password to something for you

and yeah a toss up between Max for animation and Milkshape is a no brainer timewise and ease ... personally i don't like milkshapes animating for that very reason though, all well and good to be basic but its just a little to basic for my likes.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
lcfcfan
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Location: North East, UK
Posted: 1st May 2003 00:29
I kinda agree with raven about asking about which programs models are done in cos if i said hey i made this in 3ds max i would probably get dissed and people would say hey why you using max its shit use maya but i also disagree cos i like to know what programs people use and i personally dont mind if i get asked what i use.

Eponick
21
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Joined: 18th Mar 2003
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Posted: 1st May 2003 06:05
Where do you guys get textures? Or what do you use to make them? Im still new to modeling, since milkshape was cheap.. I registered it

Shadow Robert
21
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 1st May 2003 06:13
you just search around the net or make them in photoshop or paintshop pro

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Danmatsuma
21
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Joined: 2nd Mar 2003
Location: Australia
Posted: 1st May 2003 12:24
I'm pretty stubborn, so I never use royalty free images, or images/textures that someone else made. They're never quite what I visualize anyhow. The best thing to do is design the textures yourself as raven said, using a paint package. I use photoshop 4.0.1 to do mine, but I don't do much filtering, instead I use a graphics tablet and a lot of dodge, burn, blur and desaturate. The little old ladies dress though I did filter, monochrome gaussian noise to give it some texture. Another cool thing about photoshop is the way you can use layering transparencies. I'll be going over her face with another layer for her makeup, then probably using one of the compositing filters to blend them together. If I were doing a realistic model, I'd probably do seperate layers for muscle, veins/arteries, skin, and makeup, and use lighten/additive compositing to blend them using various transparencies to get something very, very real looking, but this game is gonna be very cartoony

raven: you're never online when I am these days, I'm also tryin' to cut down on my net usage after... well just see my thread in the off topic section "I want to kill my ISP"

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Shadow Robert
21
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 1st May 2003 12:29
i've not seen you on msn in ages ... what the hecks up with that

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Danmatsuma
21
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Joined: 2nd Mar 2003
Location: Australia
Posted: 1st May 2003 13:53
It's on right now I tells ya!!

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Dave J
Retired Moderator
21
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Joined: 11th Feb 2003
Location: Secret Military Pub, Down Under
Posted: 1st May 2003 17:48
Yes, Australian ISP's do suck indeed.

Anyway, I think the best way to go with texturing is to use a pressure tablet (if you can afford one) in photoshop as suggested. I personally use PSP with lots of Lighten/Darken RGB tools, seems that's the best way to give textures highlights and stuff. The reason I don't use Adobe is because I started with Paint Shop Pro and could never really make the transition to Photoshop although many people say it's a lot better so I suggest using that instead heh.

lol, I don't think that post made any sense at all.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."

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