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Dark GDK / [LOCKED] When is DGDK going to be fixed?

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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 7th Oct 2006 19:43 Edited at: 7th Oct 2006 19:44
I just checked 1.6.2c against all my bug reports so far from the bug board, even those that refered to DBPro (I typed them into dgdk). Other than the shadows thing, all of them did made it to the current version which is pretty good (I'll keep these safe so I can check future builds too). Here's the report:

OK : [Fixed] Set window on + set display mode always fullscreen in U6 (any Beta ic RC2)?
OK : [Fixed] Calling dbSetDisplayMode() makes dbLoadObject() not load model textures automatically
OK : [Fixed] No dbGetIndexData(int iIndex) functionality exists in DGDK 1.1.1
OK : [Fixed] Collision bug, seems related to scaling (5.9b3)
NOK : [Fixed] Shader mode shadows (mode 1) are missing from DGSDK
OK : [Fixed] Multi-hit tests still not working in U6b1 (despite [Fixed])
OK : [Fixed] Collision bug, more specifically with the Hit functionality (5.9b3 & dgsdk)

Interesting to see that the shadow thing is supposed to have been fixed in Mar 21...
Check out:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=72376&b=15

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 7th Oct 2006 20:59
Sounds like Lee added the code, but perhaps never actually tested it

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VRMan3D
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Posted: 8th Oct 2006 21:53
Ah yes, good, I will send him a project with all of the bugs I've found (lots in obscure things that people probably don't use very often, but they are very important to me and should be fixed of course to get running right for all of us customers to enjoy - dbSetBumpMappingOn for example is broken, but works fine in DBPro 1.6.2c)

I'm very suprised that they don't have a big GDK test application they run which systematically tests each function. In the big companies I've worked for this type of thing is the normal way to go. You guys should make yourselves an app which pulls up objects with each of the commands applying a certain feature (shadows, bump mapping, ghosting, alpha transparency, etc.), and then have a window that shows a screen capture of how it should look if it's working right. For example, my dbSetBumpMappingOn bug, you would make a cylinder, texture it, and apply the mapping on the left side of the screen. On the right hand side of the screen the user would see a pre-captured image of the same cylinder with bump mapping already applied to compare it with. That way, anyone like your little sister could run the program for you and compare the realtime with the saved images and be able to tell you if you broke something while fixing something else (make a check box in the testing app that the tester can check if the particular function needs to be investigated, and a textbox for them to type in what they think is wrong then you can just go through the resulting database and fix it and release a much more bug free sdk).
It takes a lot of time/effort to make a good testing app in the beginning, but it saves you all this wasted time in the end where you are tracking down bugs from all over the place and fixing them. It is well worth it!

I hope we get an update soon as well. I NEED GHOSTING BACK!

Thanks everyone for your effort. I think when I'm done with my big secret project here, you will all want to showcase it as an example of what the GDK can do. (I hope so anyway )

Best regards,
-=VRMan=-

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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 8th Oct 2006 23:43
Ah, yes, TGC testing... that has been a concern of mine for a while - just check http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=75664&b=15 .

I'm the manager of the Software Maintenance team for the product my company develops so fixing bugs and regression testing is pretty much what I do 9 hours a day. And I'd have (even more LOL) mutinies from users on my hands if we didn't have thorough testing and we broke the product as often as TGC does...

I have vague plans for World Domination
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 8th Oct 2006 23:54
Quote: "I NEED GHOSTING BACK! "

Who doesn't.

I've mentioned the problems with testing the programs at the place I work for before, so I wont bore people with it again... Surfice to say, nothings changed...

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tobi453
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Posted: 9th Oct 2006 11:03
I have a strange problem with one of my models (maybe it's a bug):

When I execute this code the object is correct illuminated.


Now I scale the object bigger and the object is completely dark!



Does anybody have a similar problem?

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Morcilla
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Posted: 12th Oct 2006 12:55
tobi, I reviewed your code and I think you just have to add "dbSetNormalizationOn();" to preserve correct lighting of scaled objects, so there is no real problem with that.
Please check this code:

It should have the desired behaviour (no dark objects)
tobi453
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Posted: 12th Oct 2006 13:45
Thank you very much Morcilla, it works now.
Miguel Melo
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Posted: 12th Oct 2006 22:53
Things have gone very quiet concerning the update since last week... too quiet for my taste.

Mike seems to be very active on other forums (like the DarkPhysics one) - I really hope he isn't neglecting the DGDK update.

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APEXnow
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Posted: 12th Oct 2006 23:53
He isn't

Paul.

Miguel Melo
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Posted: 13th Oct 2006 00:15
... if you say so.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 13th Oct 2006 00:32
He does!

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Mike Johnson
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Posted: 13th Oct 2006 13:38
Don't worry I'm on the case
Miguel Melo
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Posted: 13th Oct 2006 15:27
Quote: "Don't worry I'm on the case "


Good man!

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 13th Oct 2006 17:55 Edited at: 13th Oct 2006 18:05
Dont fall of the case - you might hurt yourself, and then we would have to wait even longer...

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Morcilla
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Posted: 18th Oct 2006 13:13
So far, has anyone sent anything else to Mike (apart from me)?
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 18th Oct 2006 15:09
No, cant say I've found much else...

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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 18th Oct 2006 15:14
I haven't sent anything on top of my report a week or so ago in this very same thread. I kinda hoped he would check this thread on top of his inbox. But since that other missing sticky thread had a reference to something that is not on this thread, I'll email him with the shadows thing again.

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Morcilla
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Posted: 18th Oct 2006 22:08
Well done Miguel, good idea.
We have to make this fix reach as far as we can. Shadows are very important for me too.
Miguel Melo
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Posted: 18th Oct 2006 23:10
It's done. Back to the waiting game...

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VRMan3D
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Posted: 19th Oct 2006 03:10
Sorry guys I've been very sick - strep thoat with a relentless migrane headache - so I haven't been up to sitting in front of the computer for any length of time, not long enough to write up sample programs for the gdk bugs I've found anyway. So if someone else wants to send in a sample before its too late....

Hmm, it seems like there were more buggy routines I ran across, but now with my sick head I can only remember these:

dbSetBumpMappingOn just turns a textured object white
dbSetAlphaMappingOn doesn't zbuffer properly
dbGhostObjectOn makes it vanish.

I will try to see if I can find/remember the others before it's too late. When is the deadline for bug reports? When is the new version coming out?

Best regards,
-=VRMan=-

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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 19th Oct 2006 11:46
I emailed Mike yesterday and he said he hoped to have news for us "soon". That they would release a version and let it simmer so we could test and give feedback in time for a final release.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 19th Oct 2006 12:41
Ah good... But will it be in time before I completely switch over to Mac ??

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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 19th Oct 2006 14:10
Well, from past performance (and even without knowing when you will be done switching) I'd say no with confidence... Timelines regarding DGDK are normally measured in geologic eras, so "soon" is probably half the time between the Neoproterozoic and the Paleozoic.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 19th Oct 2006 20:48
Your a bit pessimistic!

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VRMan3D
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Posted: 20th Oct 2006 12:10
As I mentioned in this post:
GRRRR (sorry for the rant, but what a waste of time)
perhaps they should mention in the docs that the terrain system doesn't work like any other subsystem in that it steals objectIDs.

Also, not sure if it's a bug (seems like it should be), but the commands
float dbGetTerrainXSize ( int iID )
float dbGetTerrainZSize ( int iID )
return the size of the original heightmap, not the size of the current terrain (doesn't take into account the scaling).

Anybody else ever waste time trying to add the 'advanced terrain' to your project after using matrix and assume it would work with an independent ID system like everything else does?
-VR

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Morcilla
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 15:39
Another month passes...
Morcilla
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Posted: 28th Oct 2006 18:46
Now it seems that DBPro 6.3 is finished and in testing phase, since 6.2 won't work with the new 'DarkShader'.

Since Mike told us that DGDK is going to be fixed, I think we should have it in line with this new 6.3, so maybe we could use DarkShader from the beginning.

I'll get downhearted if I cannot release before Christmas, and definitively I'll hate TGC if I have to start a workaround version that will mess my code.

I guess they should treat DGDK more in a 'Professional' way and less in the 'Dark' way.
Miguel Melo
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Posted: 29th Oct 2006 00:31
I agree that they should bring it to 6.3 level... I read somewhere that that version includes lots of shader fixes to support the darkshader. If we are being forced to wait and wait... we might as well get the latest version.


Pretty please, Mike and Lee?

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flibX0r
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Posted: 30th Oct 2006 06:38
Fixy fixy fixy fixy fixy fixy....

My tree's aren't as pretty as they could be (tranparent mode 4 is the only one the works for me). It's the only thing that's really bugging me.

And you'd think that it would be easier to update the DGSDK and DBPro at the same time, wouldn't you? Don't they pretty much use the same code?

Big whorls have little whorls which feed on their velocity,
Little whorls have lesser whorls and so on to viscosity. - Lewis F. Richardson
Jna99
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Posted: 30th Oct 2006 21:10
I've found BUG when you use dbIntersectObject on Instances of Object doesn't work!!
Morcilla
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Posted: 30th Oct 2006 21:19
We should check if that even works with DBPro, do you already have some sample code?
Jna99
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Posted: 31st Oct 2006 00:53 Edited at: 31st Oct 2006 00:55
Morcilla
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Posted: 1st Nov 2006 14:52
Good point Jna99, I'm afraid you are right!

I made a little example with two cones, one of them instanced.
Here is the code for DGDK:



And here it is the same for DBPro (it works):



I already informed Mike about this, so no action required
Jna99
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Posted: 1st Nov 2006 15:14
OK thanks Morcilla!
Charles
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2006 10:39
I'm not sure if Mike knows about this one, but someone reported a bug in Joystick selection. Aparently, if you have two or more joysticks connected to a computer and try selecting one of them, the joystick positions are read only from the DEFAULT joystick controller. Has this bug been addressed? Joysticks are important for what I'm doing. I need to make sure that ALL of my joysticks (force-feedback and all) are working.
Morcilla
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2006 11:29
Charles, that bug has not been reported as far as I know.
Miguel Melo
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2006 11:43
Yeah, me neither... I don't have two joysticks so it would be cool if you could double-check yourself and let Mike or Lee know. Thanks.

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Charles
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Posted: 4th Nov 2006 10:38
I'll contact them and see what they have to say about it.
Morcilla
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Posted: 4th Nov 2006 18:17
I'm not sure if joystick commands can be used with other than the default joystick. According to the docs, for example:

Quote: "dbJoystickX
This command will return the X axis value of the default analogue joystick."


The same applies to dbJoystickFireA, dbJoystickUp, etc.

If we use dbSetControlDevice to change control device, maybe we can only get input with dbControlDeviceX,Y,Z:

Quote: "dbControlDeviceX
This command will return the X axis value of the current control device."


However, it seems you can force-feed that control with the force-feedback commands:

Quote: "dbForceUp
This command will use the current control device if it has force feedback capability. "


Although, I haven't made any test.
Ancient Lady
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Posted: 10th Nov 2006 20:09
I didn't want to assume that the user of any game I develop will be using the same control device. So, I've set up to accept player movement using keyboard, joystick or wheel.

I've tested two each of wheel and joystick for control and discovered interesting things. The keyboard was pretty basic and easy to assume consistent input. Not so with different wheels and joysticks.

The joysticks I currently have are:
->Logitech Attack 3
->Saitek ST90

The wheels are:
->Logitech WingMan Formual Force GP
->Logitech Momo

One of the things I discovered is that while all the devices will be recognized by 'dbPerformChecklistControlDevices', in some combinations, only one of the devices is actually readable.

All the devices are USB.

I can put either wheel with the Logitech joystick and actively switch between them during game play. But only one wheel is readable if both are plugged in (the Wingman, for some unknown reason). If I plug in the Saitek joystick with any other one plugged in at the same time, the Saitek joystick is not readable. It doesn't appear to matter which port they are plugged into.

I scavenged a bunch of my code to create a simple tester. Part of my game code has a calibration section for joysticks and wheels. Most of that code is not included and some of the support functions have been modified from my originals. Feel free to use any of this code. The keyboard commands to switch stuff are slightly tempermental, it depends on how fast your computer is.

Once you select the device for the wheel or joystick (using the 2 and 1 keys, respectively), you can switch between controlling device using the 'k', 'j' and 'w' keys. If you are testing multiple devices of the same type, switch off the type before changing the device and then switch back.

Only the devices that are plugged in when the application starts will be recognised by the program. So, if you physically change devices, you need to restart the application.



This has been compiled and tested with the latest Dark SDK using MS Studio .NET 2003 on a generic PC with 2GB RAM, Pentium4 3.20GHz, MS Windows 2000 SP4, NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200.

I recall having difficulty trying to get the force feedback stuff to work with Dark Basic Pro. I haven't tried it with Dark SDK, yet.

Anyhow, this is test code for trying to work with multiple devices, and for working out your own methods of calibration and such.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
Morcilla
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Posted: 14th Nov 2006 19:42
I've reported 3 new examples directly to Mike:

- Transparency modes 2,3,5,6 causes objects to disappear
- Make terrain causes link error
- Delete vector 3 has a memory leak

Just for your information.
tobi453
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Posted: 15th Nov 2006 19:42
I have just noticed that the fresnel water shader dont't work, because the commands "set camera clip" and "sync mask" are missing in the DGDK.

Will these commands be included in the next update?
Charles
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Posted: 15th Nov 2006 23:12
Quote: "If we use dbSetControlDevice to change control device, maybe we can only get input with dbControlDeviceX,Y,Z:"


No. I was able to use DB Pro to select and use the different joysticks in the past. It just doesn't work in the GDK for some reason.
Miguel Melo
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Posted: 16th Nov 2006 09:46
Quote: "I have just noticed that the fresnel water shader dont't work, because the commands "set camera clip" and "sync mask" are missing in the DGDK."


I'll email Mike with this info, then.

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y2ksw
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Posted: 19th Nov 2006 22:01
At which point are the bug fixes? Can we hope for a before-xmas-release?
Miguel Melo
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Posted: 19th Nov 2006 23:16
Quote: "At which point are the bug fixes? Can we hope for a before-xmas-release?"


That really is the question on everyone's mind. It really is not for the lack of bug reports that the TGC developers don't get tucked in: Morcilla has been doing a tremendous job putting together organised reports and APEXnow is certainly pushing that too. I myself have humbly contributed with 2 or 3 reports as I'm sure other people have too.

The problem is that every week is "the week" a new patch will be issued. But it never comes.

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y2ksw
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Posted: 20th Nov 2006 01:19
Quote: "The problem is that every week is "the week" a new patch will be issued. But it never comes."


From the point of view of a developer I can understand, they rather delay a release, before releasing another patch shortly after.

However it would be very nice to hear from first hand where the problems are, and how long we have to wait. Just to get organized ourselves.
Morcilla
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Posted: 21st Nov 2006 13:40 Edited at: 21st Nov 2006 13:41
Quote: "I was able to use DB Pro to select and use the different joysticks in the past. It just doesn't work in the GDK for some reason."


Charles, I sent Ancient Lady's example to Mike, as I cannot read from a second device either. So this is a reported one.

Ancient Lady, thanks for the code provided.

Miguel, maybe we should make a complete list of the missing commands and have it close to the bug list. Although I'll be happy just being able to run properly the base specifications. Not claiming for an update, but for what I bought (two years ago).
Miguel Melo
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2006 10:56
Quote: "Miguel, maybe we should make a complete list of the missing commands and have it close to the bug list."


I confirmed and added Charles' report to the buglist and sent it to Mike. Unfortunately, we're not seeing any feedback coming back...

For those of you interested but not directly in the bug reporting loop, we currently have 23 reported bugs/missing commands that have neatly been placed in an Excel file by Morcilla and periodically sent to Mike (when something new is added). We have not been notified of any of them having been fixed yet, though...

I have vague plans for World Domination

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