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Work in Progress / Enhanced Animation - addon for DBpro

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 30th Oct 2006 18:51
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Bleh!

I ran into a bug with complex models over the weekend. Basicly, if a model has more than one mesh in it, only the last mesh will be animated. I think this is related to a DBpro bug with ROTATE LIMB that does the same thing. I have some ideas of what could be causing the problem, but TGC is going to have to look into it further. I am still looking for other workarounds, but I don't think there is much I can do.

-Ron

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 31st Oct 2006 15:37
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Well, the only workaround that I can find to handle this problem is for ME to control all of the mesh vertex movement based on the limb angle/positions. That is quite complicated!
I offered some suggestions to Mike about what may be causing the problem. Hopefully the solution will just be a bug fix from TGC. If not, I've spent too much time on this project to back down now. I'll just have to handle all of the mesh manipulation. Ouch!

One thing is for sure... I have learned a LOT working on this!

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 01:27 Edited at: 2nd Nov 2006 01:31
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I was hoping the bug fix would be in DBpro 6.3 released today, but unfortunately it is still broken.

Progress continues though...
Currently I am adding all of the keyframe manipulation commands. You will have the ability to edit existing, add and remove keyframes. I currently have the "edit existing" keyframes coded, but not tested. It is more complicated than you might think! They have to automatically re-order themselves based on the time value that you enter in. This also has to have the ability of adjusting the Total Frames variable. I think I have it all worked out though...
The way the commands are set up is like this:

Key = EnAn_AnimModifyRotKey(AnimID, Limb, Key, time, x ,y ,z )
Key = EnAn_AnimModifyPosKey(AnimID, Limb, Key, time, x ,y ,z )
Key = EnAn_AnimModifyScaleKey(AnimID, Limb, Key, time, x ,y ,z )

Most of it is pretty self explanatory. The function returns the new "key" number in case it needed re-ordered if you changed the time parameter.

The other commands that I still need to code will look like this:

Key = EnAn_AnimInsertRotKey( AnimID, Limb, time, x, y, z)
Key = EnAn_AnimInsertPosKey( AnimID, Limb, time, x, y, z)
Key = EnAn_AnimInsertScaleKey( AnimID, Limb, time, x, y, z)

EnAn_AnimDeleteRotKey AnimID, Limb, Key
EnAn_AnimDeletePosKey AnimID, Limb, Key
EnAn_AnimDeleteScaleKey AnimID, Limb, Key

When it is complete, this should make creating custom animation creation applications EASY to do!


edit:
Hello... Hello.... Hello....
Cricket, Cricket..................
I think I lost my audience.

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adr
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 17:47
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I don't think you're going to get many responses other than "keep up the good work"; It's difficult to imagine how the plugin works, or its potential applications just seeing command names.

Has Mike/Lee acknowledged the bug you described? Do they think it's fixable, or is it a show stopper?

Are you gonna port this for the .NET platform?

[center]
game dev ... is like a bouncy castle full of breasts - VanB
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 18:00 Edited at: 2nd Nov 2006 18:00
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Quote: "I don't think you're going to get many responses other than "keep up the good work"; It's difficult to imagine how the plugin works, or its potential applications just seeing command names."

lol, I know. I was mostly kidding around.

Quote: "Has Mike/Lee acknowledged the bug you described? Do they think it's fixable, or is it a show stopper?"


Mike sent me a new DBproBasic3DDebug.dll this morning to test. All the mesh frames are now being updated, so the plugin now works with more complex models. After testing on some other models (and animations) I can now see a slight difference in the rotations between a regular playing animation and an animation from my plugin. I am in the process of sorting out what is causing that at the moment.
So, Mike is the man! He did help by fixing the DBpro bug. Now I have to do my part and fix my bug

Quote: "Are you gonna port this for the .NET platform?"


I'm not sure yet. I'll have to look to see how much work is involved. If I do port it over, it probably won't be until AFTER I get 3DCM released. That is my "baby" and I've been neglecting it too long already

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Diggsey
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 18:35
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Quote: "
Key = EnAn_AnimModifyRotKey(AnimID, Limb, Key, time, x ,y ,z )
Key = EnAn_AnimModifyPosKey(AnimID, Limb, Key, time, x ,y ,z )
Key = EnAn_AnimModifyScaleKey(AnimID, Limb, Key, time, x ,y ,z )
"

Will those commands have something like these to go with them?
Quote: "
X = EnAn_AnimRotKeyX(AnimID, Limb, Key)
Y = EnAn_AnimRotKeyY(AnimID, Limb, Key)
Z = EnAn_AnimRotKeyZ(AnimID, Limb, Key)
Time = EnAn_AnimRotKeyTime(AnimID, Limb, Key)
etc.
"

(not sure what the time thing is, so I guessed)

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adr
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 18:40 Edited at: 2nd Nov 2006 18:41
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Quote: "If I do port it over, it probably won't be until AFTER I get 3DCM released. That is my "baby" and I've been neglecting it too long already"


Don't worry about it. I probably wouldn't use this plugin, but rest assured I'd it anyway

I bought the .NET SDK today, so I think I'm going to be using that from now on.

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 18:46
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Quote: "Will those commands have something like these to go with them?"


Yes. Check out the third post on this page. You can return the values of any key.

Quote: "(not sure what the time thing is, so I guessed)"


The time value marks where in time that the key falls. There could be a different amount of time from key1 to key2 than there is from key2 to key3. So, key1 could be at 1 second, key2 could be at 5 seconds and key3 could be at 20 seconds. As time passes as the animation plays, the rotation amount is interpolated between the key times. So, in the case above, if the animation is 3 seconds into playing, the roation would be half-way between key1 and key2's rotation.
Hope that helps!

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 18:47
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Quote: "Don't worry about it. I probably wouldn't use this plugin, but rest assured I'd it anyway "


Don't worry about it. If you aren't going to use it, don't feel obligated to buy it. I appreciate the input that you have given me!

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Alquerian
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 19:26
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Sounds like you are making some good headway Wolf. Keep it crankin, you know you have our support Good to hear that they fixed the multiple mesh bug, I know I have wrapped my head around some code for days only to find that it is not my code at fault Hope that wasn't the case

Take care and keep up the good work!

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2006 21:37
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Quote: " I know I have wrapped my head around some code for days only to find that it is not my code at fault Hope that wasn't the case "

It was, but that's ok. I am just glad it is fixed and amother DBpro bug squished.


OK, more progress. My bug was actually TWO bugs. One has been dealt with and solved, the other one has been found and is in the process of being solved.
The fisrt bug was a rotation issue. I wasn't gathering the keyframe data for the last limb. That has been fixed.
The bug I am currently fixing has to do with position data. It works a little bit different than I thought it did. I know where the problem is and I think I know what I have to do to fix it. Now I just need to do it

The saga continues....

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Duffer
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Posted: 4th Nov 2006 16:57
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@ Wolf,

Fairly predictable - but excellent work and keep it comin!

Dont share that chaps inability to envisage how useful this plugin would be - in itself, a Godsend - with 3dcm a huge sidestep in coding games in DBPro....

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 4th Nov 2006 19:05
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Quote: "Dont share that chaps inability to envisage how useful this plugin would be"


Who's? If you mean ADR, he has given me a lot of input about this so far. I don't believe that he thinks it won't be useful. I think he was just saying that he won't personally have a use for it right away, especially if it isn't available for the .net SDK. I'm cool with that

Anyway, thanks for the compliments
I hope both products turn out as good as I am trying to make them!

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jasonhtml
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Posted: 4th Nov 2006 20:52
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ive been following this for a while and it sounds good so far. i was just wondering. do you think its possible that you can finish it before christmas?


Thread: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=78971&b=8&p=0
*New Website Coming Soon*
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 5th Nov 2006 01:37
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Quote: "do you think its possible that you can finish it before christmas?"


I sure hope so! I really want to have it done, released, and advertised in the December newsletter.

I'll have to see how things go killing this newest bug

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 9th Nov 2006 04:36
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Well... that was a tough nut to crack.

I had all of the rotation stuff working good. When I started testing some more involved animations, I discovered that all of the position translations were screwed up. I've been working on fixing this for a WEEK now! It is crazy what I had to do to fix it. If it wasn't for my rotation experience (because of EZrotate) and mind-numbing repeated attempts at trying to solve this, it never would have happened. Luckily, things like this piss me off enough that I refuse to walk away.
Anyway, PROBLEM SOLVED!
I can now see the light at the end of the tunnel.

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adr
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Posted: 9th Nov 2006 11:39 Edited at: 9th Nov 2006 11:40
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Quote: "Dont share that chaps inability to envisage how useful this plugin would be"

That isn't what I said. I said
Quote: "It's difficult to imagine how the plugin works, or its potential applications just seeing command names."

Personally, I don't find a list of command names to be useful when previewing a plugin.

I also said
Quote: "Don't worry about it. I probably wouldn't use this plugin, but rest assured I'd it anyway"

I've missed out the word "buy" for some reason. So it should read "I'd buy it anyway". I've been using DBPro for almost 4 years now and I still haven't finished a game. So when I say "I probably wouldn't use this plugin" that's because I'm yet to actually knuckle down and finish a game. Irrespective, I think WOLF deserves some cash for his hard work.


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Duffer
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Posted: 13th Nov 2006 09:31
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@ adr,

sorry - not meaning to do you down...

@ Wolf,

Howzit going - also, how is 3dcm going (have lost that thread...)?

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 13th Nov 2006 15:48
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Quote: "Howzit going - also, how is 3dcm going (have lost that thread...)?"


I didn't get much done over the weekend. I have also been completely swamped with EZrotate questions lately. I usually get a couple of questions per week, but things have been absolutely CRAZY lately. lol
I would say that I am behind schedule of where I thought I would be at this point. That last bug was a killer. I am still moving forward though.
As far as 3DCM goes.... it hasn't been progressing at all lately. I want to finish this off before I jump back on to it. That is kind of frustrating me, but in the end I think it will all be worth it

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TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 13th Nov 2006 17:03
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Quote: "Luckily, things like this piss me off enough that I refuse to walk away."

Same here, 'tis the only reason I ca\rry on with my ICT coursework! Lol!

This looks really good and if it more efficient than the thing that I made then I will certainly consider buying it.

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Duffer
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Posted: 13th Nov 2006 18:32 Edited at: 14th Nov 2006 13:47
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@ Wolf,

No worries and stick at it - as everyone's said the Enhanced Anim and 3dCM in combination will be a major addition to DBPro...

[edit]

Wolf, using the above commands could I capture and add a first keyframe to a 'boned' 3d object (to your animation file) where no frames of animation existed for the object before?

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Duffer
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Posted: 29th Nov 2006 17:57
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@ Wolf,

Ping.... howz it going?

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 29th Nov 2006 18:33 Edited at: 29th Nov 2006 18:34
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I quit working on it.

haha... just kidding

My computer died, which is actually kind of a long story. Read about it here if you like:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=93877&b=2

I just shipped it back to HP today, and hopefully I should have it back in about a week. Because of this problem, I haven't been able to do any coding in over a week already.
Sorry for the delay, but there is really nothing that I can do. I really wanted to get this released in November but that is now impossible. With the way schedule is in December, I'll be LUCKY if I can finish before the end of the year

I just saw the edit in your previous post. I'm not sure how I missed it before:
Quote: "Wolf, using the above commands could I capture and add a first keyframe to a 'boned' 3d object (to your animation file) where no frames of animation existed for the object before?"


That isn't really how it works. This addon will make the animation data completely seperate from the model. So, you can't add a keyframe to the model per say, but you can add a keyframe to a loaded animation set.
The main advantage of doing it this way is speed. For instance, right now the FPSC characters have about 3000 frames of animation. That is a LOT of data. If that animation data is left in the model itself, it takes decent amount of time to load. If I have to load 5 models (each with ALL of the animation data in it), it takes a really long time to load. Using this will allow you to use models that have no animation data in them (they will load very fast). You then load the animation sets that you want to use which can be applied to ANY model that has the same limb structure. Less loading time. Less overhead. Easier to manage.

-Ron

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Diggsey
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Posted: 29th Nov 2006 18:43
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I know that you can convert a model's animation data to your data format, but would it be possible to actually create animation data at runtime? Eg, if you were writing an animation editor.

Also, will there be the ability to convert animation data to and from memblocks?
(In case you did not want the anim data to be available to edit)

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Fallout
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Posted: 29th Nov 2006 18:45
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Hello mate. Sorry I've not been keeping up to date on progress with this plugin. You still have my support and interest, but I've just been doing a lot of other things and taking a fairly long break from game dev recently.

I'm slowly getting back into dev again now, playing around with things. Over the next few days I'm going to read up on what you've been up to in this thread and your progress. I'm still definitely interested in this plugin!


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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 29th Nov 2006 19:17
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Quote: "I know that you can convert a model's animation data to your data format, but would it be possible to actually create animation data at runtime? Eg, if you were writing an animation editor."

Yes. There are commands to add, remove and edit keys. All of the commands aren't tested yet, but I do plan on having them.

Quote: "Also, will there be the ability to convert animation data to and from memblocks?
(In case you did not want the anim data to be available to edit)"

Not really. I could see if I could add password protection to open the saved animation data files. I don't think that would take too much effort on my part to do. That isn't real high on the priority list though and I might not be able to include anything like that on the initial release. We will see....


Quote: "Hello mate. Sorry I've not been keeping up to date on progress with this plugin. You still have my support and interest, but I've just been doing a lot of other things and taking a fairly long break from game dev recently.

I'm slowly getting back into dev again now, playing around with things. Over the next few days I'm going to read up on what you've been up to in this thread and your progress. I'm still definitely interested in this plugin!"

Sounds good. If you have any questions, please ask!

-Ron

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 18:26
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Yay!
My computer was delivered back to my house today. Now I have to find out if they wiped the hard drive. If so, I need to do a restore tomorow and I'll be back to working on this tomorow night!
Although it has really sucked being without my computer for a couple of weeks, I think I needed a short break from it. I am now very excited about getting back to work on this.

I briefly talked to Rick (from TGC) a couple of days ago about this addon. It looks like it will probably be released early next year (hopefully in January). I wish I could have had it finished sooner, but a couple of killer bugs and my computer dying delayed me more than I expected. It should all be worth the wait though. It is coming together nicely.

-Ron

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Duffer
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Posted: 5th Dec 2006 08:49
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@ Wolf,

Excellent news - very quick return for your pc...

Can see where your focus is at the moment. Very provisionally though, how do you see EnAnim release date tying in with 3DCM EA and 3DCM final release?

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 5th Dec 2006 14:19 Edited at: 5th Dec 2006 14:20
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Quote: "Can see where your focus is at the moment. Very provisionally though, how do you see EnAnim release date tying in with 3DCM EA and 3DCM final release?"


I'd love to release Enhanced Animations in January. I don't really see any reason why I can't make that happen. All I can say about 3DCM is that my focus will COMPLETELY return to it once Enhanced Animations is done. It is in my best interest to finish it as soon as I can, and that is what I plan to do. I will probably be looking for some help with some of the 2D work to help make that happen.

edit:
Oh yeah. HP did NOT reformat my hard drive so I was actually able to start working on this again last night!

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Diggsey
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Posted: 5th Dec 2006 20:36
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Can't wait till christmas... Or even the month after

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 8th Dec 2006 15:38
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Ho-hum....

Progress continues. Slowly, but it does continue. Right now, I am fighting with compatability issues of extracting animation info from all different kinds of models. It was working great with the models that I was testing, then I hit a brick wall when I started to test more. I have an idea that will most likely work for ALL models, but it will be a slower process to extract the data. Since the data would be saved out to files prior to your game, that isn't really a big deal. It just isn't as "clean" as it used to be. It will probably take me a day or two to re-write this part of it, but it should actually make some other parts easier to do and faster at run time.

-Ron

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Diggsey
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Posted: 20th Dec 2006 15:39
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Any news on progress?


VISIT MY WEBSITE!
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 21st Dec 2006 03:54
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Still going....
I have a couple more days to work on it then I'll be away for a week. I'm still hoping for a January finish.
I'll post more soon.

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SageTech
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Posted: 31st Dec 2006 21:52
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Hey WOLF,

Ive been following this plug-in for quite a while now, and I'm looking forward to its completion, as the primitive dark basic animation system has pretty much halted my work on my game. Do you still think you'll manage to get this out by January? If so do you happen to know how soon in January? Thanks for the great work,

Jase

Kenjar, yet another victim of NRS (N00b Relapse Syndrome) May he code in peace...

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2007 21:35
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Hello! I just got back from Disney World with the family. A week's vacation was nice to have right now, although it was as much work as it was fun. With 3 kids to carry around when they got tired for 6 days at the busiest week of the year for Disney, I'm more tired than when I left. Still, it was good fun and worth the sore back. Disney World (in Orlando, Florida) is an AMAZING place and I highly reccomend the trip to anyone looking for a nice vacation. I'd just advise you to go at a "less-busy" time.


Quote: "Ive been following this plug-in for quite a while now, and I'm looking forward to its completion, as the primitive dark basic animation system has pretty much halted my work on my game. Do you still think you'll manage to get this out by January? If so do you happen to know how soon in January? Thanks for the great work,"


If it is in January, expect it to be towards then end of the month. I'm still fighting compatability problems with animations stored in "position/rotation/scale" keys. I have it working well when matrix keys are used. I am going to finish the rest of the plugin, then return to this problem later. Hopefully I'll be back working on it TONIGHT!

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SageTech
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Hey, that's great to hear WOLF, Luckily I found other stuff I could be doing so a month or so wait is really nothing. And also glad to hear you came down to Florida, I'm guessing you got the florida weather feeling in full, its still hot as always down here!

Kenjar, yet another victim of NRS (N00b Relapse Syndrome) May he code in peace...

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Posted: 3rd Jan 2007 22:10
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Yeah...
We had wonderful weather actually. I was there from Christmas day to New Years day. The first couple of days were a little bit cold (mid 60's) but our last day at the park got up to about 85 degrees . It also only rained once while we were at the park (only for a few minutes). From what I understand, that is very unusual for Florida especially this time of year. So, I can't complain about the weather at all.

EZrotate! TextureMax! Enhanced Animations! (coming soon....) 3D Character Maker! (coming soon....)
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 8th Jan 2007 14:25
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I got a decent amount done over the weekend. I did run into some more problems, but I have a good idea of how to deal with them that will be transparant to the users.

I am considering making an open beta test version of this. For security reasons, I'll just make the beta version time limited. Then everyone can test it with their models and get back to me with any problems and/or requests. I have tested it with all of the DarkMatter 2 models and the models created with my character creation program. Everything seems to be working good so far. Hopefully, I'll get enough done to release the beta version THIS WEEK!

-Ron

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David R
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Location: 3.14
Posted: 8th Jan 2007 20:06
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Quote: "I FINALLY KILLED the memory leak I was having!
As expected, it was something STUPID."


Don't you just hate memory leaks? I think the small ones are the worst personally, since their origin is much harder to determine than a huge blatant leak.

My current project is suffering from a really tiny leak - if you load a level with zero objects on it, the game will leak ~48 bytes when it exits. A normal level leaks nothing. It's an infuriating problem, and hard to pin point. Death to memory leaks


"History shall be kind to me, for I intend to write it" - Winston Churchill
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 18:54
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Quote: "Don't you just hate memory leaks? I think the small ones are the worst personally, since their origin is much harder to determine than a huge blatant leak."


Yes. They are DEFINATELY a pain. I am working with pointers more in this project than all of my other projects put together. I am definately learning a lot.



Well, I think I just *accidently* solved my compatability problems. I was working on a similar problem in a different part of the plugin and it just kind of all worked. I have some more testing to do, but it is looking good so far!

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Diggsey
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Posted: 11th Jan 2007 23:20
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Great work!


VISIT MY WEBSITE!
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 14th Jan 2007 03:53
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Well, I wasn't so lucky. What I tried did not work. I've spent the last couple of days ironing out the problems though and now have it solved. There are still a few quirks that need attention, but they should be easy to clean up.
I am really hoping to upload a beta version early next week. Hopefully, I'll get a decent amount of time to work on this tomorow

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 14th Jan 2007 23:54 Edited at: 15th Jan 2007 00:26
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All quirks are now killed as far as I can tell. I have tested it with models that I made, models from Dark Matter 2 and a model that I received from Fallout. As soon as I can package everything together I'll upload a beta version so everyone can test it with their own stuff. There is still more that I want to do before final release. I still have to add commands for adding/removing/modifying animation keys. I had them in there before, but things changed internally enough that I have to re-create them. Still, that should only take a few hours to do.
I also have to create a helpfile, keywords file and a couple of good example programs. I had planned to try to include a sample model from my "3D Character Maker" program, but I don't know if I want to delay the release of this so I can finish up a model from that. I'll see how things progress over the next few days!

edit:
I was just messing around trying to *break* things. In doing so, I just confirmed another cool feature. By adjusting the play speed you can make the animation play in reverse by using a negative number


-Ron

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SageTech
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Location: Orlando, Florida
Posted: 15th Jan 2007 07:57
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I...Love...You

Kenjar, yet another victim of NRS (N00b Relapse Syndrome) May he code in peace...

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 17th Jan 2007 17:38
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Quote: "I...Love...You"


LOL, wait until you read about the feature that I just finished adding.


OK.... So, I said that I would upload a beta demo sometime early this week. It is already Wednesday, so it looks like that slipped a little bit. I still don't have a demo ready. There is a GOOD reason for that though. I have been busy adding commands and features. I must have added 30 commands over the last couple of days. Some of them are little things, like finding info about animation keys. Others are really cool additions.

I just finished adding a command named EnAn_ObjGlobalRotateLimb. It does what it suggests. You pass angles to a limb, and the command will globaly rotate the limb to the specified angle. This should make setting up ragdoll systems MUCH, MUCH easier!

I am pretty much finished with all of the functionality that I hoped to include. There are maybe two commands left on my "add" list, but they really are minor in terms of funtionality. I have not tested some of the commands that were recently added, such as the adding/removing/modifying animation keys. I'll probably do that as I am writing some of the helpfile and example programs.

Now, it is time for me to start adding the software protection to the plugin. Although it will only take an hour or two, it is kind of mindless work that I always hate to do. After that is done, I'll see what I can do about uploading a demo. Maybe by tomorrow or Friday I'll have it ready.

-Ron

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JosephB
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Posted: 17th Jan 2007 18:17
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Looks to be amazing stuff and quite helpful. Thanks for all your work.
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Diggsey
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Posted: 17th Jan 2007 20:22
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Cool!


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SageTech
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Location: Orlando, Florida
Posted: 18th Jan 2007 01:36
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Wolf, that's amazing mate! And really it couldn't have come at a better time. So now that your done with it, have you decided what price you'll be selling it for? (Believe me, I tucked away a decent amount of money to get this thing)

Kenjar, yet another victim of NRS (N00b Relapse Syndrome) May he code in peace...

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 18th Jan 2007 01:48
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Quote: "So now that your done with it,..."


... *almost* done

Quote: "have you decided what price you'll be selling it for?"


I have to talk to TGC about that because I will be selling it through them. I have put a lot more work into this than I expected there to be. Right now I am thinking $25.

I got all of the copy protection added now. As soon as I write a clean example of how some of the commands work, I'll upload a demo. It will probably still be tomorrow or Friday

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SageTech
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Posted: 18th Jan 2007 01:55
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25 dollars! I was expecting to pay much more then that. But that is an incredibly good bang for your buck. Thanks for the *almost* done great product . Cheers

Kenjar, yet another victim of NRS (N00b Relapse Syndrome) May he code in peace...

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