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FPSC Classic Product Chat / ACCODE critic

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JDforce
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Posted: 6th Oct 2006 18:59
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I want to post my opinion on the harsh critics to ACCODE that TGC posted on the newsletter for this month.
I purchased several packages in this website and I can say that they probably are not supported officially by TGC but they are very good, and were delivered immediately. The overall quality is more than satisfying and do not find why to emit a critic so ugly to a good developer.
Moreover, I have a bad experience with a TGC-supported software which is not only dissappointing and has the worst quality and the worst support I have ever had experiencing on paid software, namely OmegaBasic. All other products are excellent, but OB is really bad.

I encourage TGC to keep supporting smaller and good software developers, which complements TGC products in a positive way, and express hereby that am dissapointed on the incongruency of the emmited critic.

May the 3d force B with U
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 6th Oct 2006 19:15 Edited at: 6th Oct 2006 19:16
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We were just as unhappy to have received various emails from Accode customers complaining of a lack of delivery of paid items and lack of response of any kind to emails. Had this been a one-off we would have assumed it was just a communications error, but it wasn't. Infact in the past we had even featured their products in our newsletter, so it took some real complaints before we had to warn people about them.

You may have issues with Omega Basic (us too, we are no longer selling this title as of the end of this year), but at least you were sent the product, and had you contacted us for a refund, we would have given it (maybe you did, I'm just giving an example between 'no support' and 'support' here), the two cannot be compared in this instance.

"Bite my shiny metal ass" (Futurama)
"Don't ping my cheese with your bandwidth" (Dilbert)
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JDforce
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Posted: 6th Oct 2006 19:58
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Richard,
Probably the word i've should use instead of "support" is "endorsement".
As a matter of fact, you guys at TGC did a great job and acted like a gentlemen when refunding the Omega Basic purchase. For almost a year I contacted the provider, who gave just bla-bla kind of answers. Contrary to it, TGC immediately acted in response to my complain.

The note for ACCODE catched my eye because in my case I had a completely good experience.

Thanks to the previous experience, I checked the forums on feedback for the Synergy IDE, and other products by the same manufacturer as Omega Basic, and took the decision of never purchasing from him again.
Because of this, and the fact that there are a lot of "satellite" providers for TGC producs, probably you guys should have some sort of place in the forums specifically for feedback on the providers quality of tech support, service and product (quality). Many (if not all) providers are also TGC community members and customers. This should give some place for advise before purchasing, and some peace of mind to both providers and customers.
If this becomes a reality, I also advise to avoid giving "editing power" as moderators to the recipients of the critics, to avoid manipulation of the critics by someone that feel affected, as has happened in the Digital Zenith section.

May the 3d force B with U
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KeithC
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Posted: 6th Oct 2006 20:23
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Quote: " I also advise to avoid giving "editing power" as moderators to the recipients of the critics, to avoid manipulation of the critics by someone that feel affected"

Although I can appreciate that; users should not be allowed to unjustly "stain" the reputation of a member who is marketing a product (like a competitor) either.

I advised putting together a "TGC Approved" section awhile ago; though nothing was ever said to further the matter.

-Keith


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Benjamin A
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Posted: 6th Oct 2006 21:41
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That would be a good idea Keith, since we've seen a number of frauds around, even by respected people, who weren't that respecatable after all.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 6th Oct 2006 21:55
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The problem with a 'TGC Approved' area is that the onus then falls on us if something goes wrong. As JDforce said, his experience with Accode was a positive one, yet I've got an inbox with angry people in it telling me otherwise - so who do I believe? How could we possibly then say 'yes he is approved', it is a far too big a task.

It also doesn't cover someone starting out really well, and then going bad (because they get bored, get flamed in the forum, get sick, etc etc). The only, and I mean *only* software we can ever endorse is the stuff we sell ourselves, because then we CAN give you a refund, and we DO have dedicated support staff to help you.

Unless someone can come up with a way this could work, I'm at a loss how it can.

"Bite my shiny metal ass" (Futurama)
"Don't ping my cheese with your bandwidth" (Dilbert)
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Mr Love
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Posted: 7th Oct 2006 05:37
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You Guys shourldnt listen to rumors here! Im just one of many happy Customers that have bought model-packs from Accode..

And Those Who are not, why complain here.. If Accode are being mean to some customers (Sounds strange to Me) and not deliver products that have been payed for, then this is a Police-Matter, NOT a TGC-Matter...
Its illegal to steal someones money! But until We know if Accode is guilty or not, We have no right to judge Accode because of rumors!


I want to see a FPSC Professional! And lets make it REALLY expensive this time......
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the_winch
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Posted: 7th Oct 2006 06:34
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Quote: "You Guys shourldnt listen to rumors here! Im just one of many happy Customers that have bought model-packs from Accode.."


I really doubt tgc would make such comments in their newsletter based on rumour. If they did they would no doubt find themselves in legal trouble before too long.

By way of demonstration, he emitted a batlike squeak that was indeed bothersome.
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 7th Oct 2006 11:05 Edited at: 8th Oct 2006 13:58
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I guess the question is when did you buy from Accode? I know quite some people have bought stuff from him in the past and had no problems at all, but that seems to be different recesently.

Also we know Accode (aka Monster) has been accussed of stealing scripts from Merranvo and other misbehaviours, that's why Monster (aka Accode) hasn't been around for a long time.

Besides there have been unsatisfied customers in the past also, not everyone has had pleasant experiences with Accode.

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transient
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Posted: 7th Oct 2006 14:02
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I'm not sure about the whole Merranvo/Monster conspiracy - the main reason being that Merranvo's jetpack script didn't seem to work properly, and Monster's apparently did.

I would like to get my hands on Monster's version one day.

It's a pity he's mia, he had some interesting creations.
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Uthink
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Posted: 7th Oct 2006 22:50
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I just purchased a pack a week ago. By and large, everything is fine. I received the pack about 2 days after purchase. However, a few entities aren't working correctly. I've emailed them and received no response. I'm very dissapointed in their service. I understand that many people are very happy with them. And while I won't badmouth them to others, I would advice that "your mileage may vary."
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 9th Oct 2006 09:14 Edited at: 9th Oct 2006 17:06
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@Richard Davey -
[Edit]


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FredP
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Posted: 9th Oct 2006 09:25
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I have had personal problems with Accode myself.
I was pretty much prepared to chalk it up to experience and say nothing.
Personally,if a fool and his moeny are soon parted then I was the fool that day.I lost my cash.But it was my decision to buy from Accode so I was going to let water go under the bridge.
Then I got e-mails,read posts,etc.
There have been a few favorable reviews for Accode.
Unfortunately,there have been far many more people who have complaints and legitimate beefs with Accode and /or the guy who runs it.
There are quite a few great products,apps,etc. that TGC and other forum members have available here on the forums to spend their hard earned money on.
I don't want to see anybody else get burned.

http://www.wembley1967.com
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 9th Oct 2006 12:46
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Quote: "I assume that this would apply to any John Y / Digital Zenith product,"


No, only the ones we sell. We cannot refund something we didn't take payment for, so that would rule out Synergy or the Landscape thingy.

"Bite my shiny metal ass" (Futurama)
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uman
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Posted: 9th Oct 2006 13:16
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Quote: "We have no right to judge Accode because of rumors!"


Rumors or not - this is a TGC Web Site and TGC have every right to respond to conduct at it, from it or by association to it from any quarter as they see fit without any need for justification here.

Kindly in this instance TGC have made comment as to their thinking towards the issues involved.



"I am and forever will be your friend"
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 9th Oct 2006 17:07 Edited at: 9th Oct 2006 17:08
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@Richard -
Thanks. I didn't realize that you guys actually received payment for one of his products, I thought they'd all be the same.

In a way though, they are all the same


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Locrian
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Posted: 10th Oct 2006 09:52 Edited at: 10th Oct 2006 09:59
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I now understand why TGC aligns themselves with content creators like Bond1 and now Jon. It's more then them getting a piece of the action. This way they have control of the situation and even if they belive in the products of these members, they don't have to put all their eggs in a basket believing in the person themselves.

At the end of the day, even though Richard lives in England and many of us in America, this site isn't a democracy. It's a dictatorship and they can really say anything they want. In a court case the burden of proof would be on the owners of Accode to prove they were slandered and that they did ship all products, and gave impeccable service.

Richards email box is full of all the proof he needs to make the claim, and were only here on his good graces. Let us not forget that "He, who holds the IP addy, makes the rules"

If you don't like Accode slammed, let Monster know and let him confront Richard. Not saying you aren't free to speak up....But most real men don't want some dude(or worse yet, some chick) fighting his battles.
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 10th Oct 2006 13:08
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Quote: "In a court case the burden of proof would be on the owners of Accode to prove they were slandered and that they did ship all products, and gave impeccable service."


If they had this thread would never have existed

The Accode complaints nearly force us to disallow ALL 'paid' FPSC resources from being advertised on this forum at all, and I mean -all-, anything that wasn't free was going to be banned from being advertised here.

That could have caused a minor uproar, but it reflects on us when things go wrong, so it's still an option. The article this month was part of a way for us to combat having to do this, but it won't take many more similar stories before we have to reconsider.

"Bite my shiny metal ass" (Futurama)
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Chenak
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Posted: 10th Oct 2006 13:28
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They are not rumors, I still haven't recived my copy of the dark sdk version of the animations plugin which cost me a fair bit, as well as those animation sets.

Accode was good in its time but now just don't buy from them cause you'll get nothing. Monsters been gone for a long time, hasn't responded to any emails and hasn't posted on these forums so its safe to assume he's buggered off for good.

There is no reason for him to not send his products since they are actually there and they do work, so I assume either he vanished off somewere and his site was hacked or he just likes to laugh at people who buy his plugins and get nothing back.
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KeithC
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Posted: 10th Oct 2006 14:21
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Quote: "The Accode complaints nearly force us to disallow ALL 'paid' FPSC resources from being advertised on this forum at all, and I mean -all-, anything that wasn't free was going to be banned from being advertised here."

That would be unfortunate; understandable, but unfortunate. Many of the legitimate artists here have given free media as a "prelude" to paid work; so I could see a decline in free media coming from that scenerio. Some of us are established enough with the community where our websites are frequented enough to produce relevant sales, without advertising here.

The real ones that would pay the price would be the new artists that come here with legitimate work that they wish to sell. Although there are those of us who would continue giving free media; there would most likely be a decline not only in media, but in programs such as Magic FPS, Signs, FPSPack, etc. All of these help to increase not only the viability of FPSC, but help make up for many of its current shortcomings.

This is one of the reasons I crack down hard on people who wish to peddle "questionable" media; I think I may need to crack down a bit harder. I think it might have to come to an instant ban if/when it is verified that someone's "work" is not their own; whether they're trying to sell it, or just giving it away. The problem with making that strong of a judgment, is that you have to be absolutely sure that the media posted is not the authors.

I can see where Rich is coming from with this; but I'd also understand some of the current community artists leaving the community should such a policy be put in place.

Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

-Keith


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Benjamin A
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Posted: 10th Oct 2006 15:11
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Quote: "The Accode complaints nearly force us to disallow ALL 'paid' FPSC resources from being advertised on this forum at all, and I mean -all-, anything that wasn't free was going to be banned from being advertised here.

That could have caused a minor uproar, but it reflects on us when things go wrong, so it's still an option. The article this month was part of a way for us to combat having to do this, but it won't take many more similar stories before we have to reconsider."


Ouch that is hard, very hard on those who do legimate work. Now I do understand the thinking, but it doesn't seem to be completely fair to those of us, who go through great lengths to make sure we create legimate products and good cusotmer support.

also I do really think it has to be taken into consideration that people have been warned in the past about Accode's behaviour and perhaps threads were his items were advertised should have been modified sooner?

To 'ban' all merchants because of a number of rotten apples seems to be over the top.

Also allowing free stuff only and not payed for stuff isn't fair either and I don't follow the reasoning in that one at all. We've seen numerous stolen free items around here and people claiming other peoples work as their own and giving it away for free. If you ban one, then be far and ban the other also.

But I'm hoping for no ban at all, I'd rather not see my business that is just starting to grow, being destroyed beyond my control. Sorry, but you're perhaps stretching it way to far? Such a rule may well (and it will) effect the succes of FPSC, since a lot of the add-ons have helped FPSC grow and become much more allround and useable. Imo these add-ons offered by others (music, models, applications) make the user experience so much more pleasant and make using FPSC even more fun and only add something to FPSC.

I'm hoping more 'merchants' will join in defending their business.

I'm completely against what Accode has done, it's bad for my business aswell and It's very good that TGC has spoken out against it but I'm really asking not to let the good ones suffer, because of the bad ones.

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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 10th Oct 2006 15:26
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if anyone hasnt noticed, the green ball dude ismonsters avatar, and mine derived from the monster period.

he did steal mervanos script, ive looked at both, and they are almost identicle exept for a few fixes on monsters part. what he did wasnt legal, but his morals could be questioned.

He also tried to release thedog from psionic under his name if some of you guys remember.

Ive also heard that his train pack had some stolen media (although im not sure).

the wierd thinkg about it was that he went from DBP plugins, to FPSC models instantly, and the models are of exeptional quality (atleast form the screen shots).

Any of you that have been here a while know that all of a sudden, all his prices increased by a huge amount after the whoel war over merannvos script and the dog, and then he seems to have dissapeared.

Overall, the fact that he would take a free resource to the community, and sell it, the take another free resource to the community and try to pass it off as his own just makes his morals look worse and worse, and is someone who does things like that who you really want to do buisness with?


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Richard Davey
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Posted: 10th Oct 2006 15:33 Edited at: 10th Oct 2006 15:38
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Quote: "Also allowing free stuff only and not payed for stuff isn't fair either and I don't follow the reasoning in that one at all."


It's quite simple - if money isn't involved, it doesn't reflect upon us in any way. If something is free, you don't loose anything by downloading it. If something is advertised on this forum that costs money, some people have trouble working out that the sale isn't endorsed by us, or coming from us, as it's on our forum. Although misguided, this isn't such a silly assumption to make - and the article this month was in part trying to educate people otherwise.

Quote: "We've seen numerous stolen free items around here and people claiming other peoples work as their own and giving it away for free. If you ban one, then be far and ban the other also."


If something is 'stolen' we'll remove it as soon as possible, regardless of its commercial status. There are far more perfectly valid free items than there are stolen ones.

A more likely approach for us (should this whole thing happen again, which I bet given time, it will) would be to create a board dedicated entirely for people pimping their own wares, stick a big fixed disclaimer at the top of it, and ban anyone from posting about their products in any other board here.

We would try this approach first before outlawing it totally.

Edit - Although that did remind me, we are also considering opening up some kind of 'Market Place', where vendors can upload files, set prices and sell them via TGC one approved. This way we CAN control who gets refunded, and when, and we can control full delivery of the items. We would of course take a percentage for this, and the system isn't even built yet, but it's another possibility to combat what is essentially 'fan fraud'.

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Benjamin A
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Posted: 10th Oct 2006 15:58
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Quote: "There are far more perfectly valid free items than there are stolen ones."


Same reasoning counts for items for sale also.

I do understand where you're coming from and I do see that some people may confuse everything that's on the boards as being owned by you.

I'm glad you explained that you're not going to shutdown everything at once, but other options are being considered first. That puts my mind to ease again

Quote: "Although that did remind me, we are also considering opening up some kind of 'Market Place', where vendors can upload files, set prices and sell them via TGC one approved. This way we CAN control who gets refunded, and when, and we can control full delivery of the items. We would of course take a percentage for this, and the system isn't even built yet, but it's another possibility to combat what is essentially 'fan fraud'."


I like that and many software companies (Efrontier, DAZ, E-On and so on) do take this approach. It would be much safer for any of us to buy in such a place and I as a content developer (however small my contribution may be) would love to be a part of such a venture.

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 10th Oct 2006 16:26
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I noticed he took Psionic's dog. That's pretty dirty. I'd NEVER do something like that. Especially considering how well known Psionic is, it's not a good idea at all.

Too bad he vanished and isn't responding, Monster's products are good.


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KeithC
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Posted: 10th Oct 2006 16:46
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I don't know why people still try to push Psionic's work as their own anymore; it seems like everyone knows Psionic's work when they see it.

Quote: "Too bad he vanished and isn't responding, Monster's products are good."

That's the problem now; how can we be sure anything he puts up is his work?


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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 10th Oct 2006 17:46
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Quote: "I still haven't recived my copy of the dark sdk version of the animations plugin"


I was thinking about getting this... good thing I didn't...

I have vague plans for World Domination
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 10th Oct 2006 18:10
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Quote: "I was thinking about getting this... good thing I didn't..."


I'm making something similar, hopefully better, and certainly cheaper
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=90459&b=8

EZrotate!
TextureMax!
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FredP
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Posted: 10th Oct 2006 22:13
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I think it would be a great idea to have a board for people to sell their wares.

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KeithC
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Posted: 10th Oct 2006 22:43
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From the looks of Jon and Bond's Packs; TGC takes total control of distribution soley from the TGC site, thereby not allowing distribution from the creator's site. Is this how it works? If that's the case, it would only be for any FPSC version, and not for any other versions of the Pack (such as a Torque version)...right? Otherwise it might not be such a good deal. For example, Jon might find quite a market for his weapons pack with the Torque developers.

-Keith


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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 10th Oct 2006 22:52 Edited at: 10th Oct 2006 22:53
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Quote: "From the looks of Jon and Bond's Packs; TGC takes total control of distribution soley from the TGC site, thereby not allowing distribution from the creator's site."


I don't think ANY of TGC's deals are exclusive. I am pretty sure that the author has the choice to sell it on his own (or even through someone else) in addition to the deal with TGC.
I won't get into the specifics of my deals for EZrotate and TextureMax but I *could* also sell them on my own if I wanted too.

The thing to remember though is TGC can only offer support/refunds for items purchased THROUGH them.

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KeithC
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Posted: 10th Oct 2006 23:01
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Shortly after Bond1 agreed to let TGC take over distribution of his model pack (some of the contents of Model Pack #2), his pack went down on his site. When asked whether or not Jon could sell his pack on his own, he said he didn't think so. It's a question I would want answered before entering into any agreement of that type.

-Keith


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Benjamin A
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Posted: 10th Oct 2006 23:06
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The user agreement is exclusive, you can only use the models in FPSC (or BDPro running FPSC levels), so I wouldn't be suprised that the deals JonF and Bond1 made are exlusive.

Now I don't think the new store would be exlusive, since TGC will be selling the merchants content for the merchant, they wouldn't be official TGC content packs. TGC would act as a store, taking a percentage for the service they offer, but not having the rights for the software. A bit like TurboSquid, but with good service and reasonable prices

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KeithC
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Posted: 10th Oct 2006 23:09
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That would work for me.


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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 10th Oct 2006 23:10
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I was mailed a formal contract to sign that clearly stated the terms. If you do release something through TGC, I imagine that you would also have to sign some kind of contract that states the terms of the agreement.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 11th Oct 2006 03:37
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If you have something worth selling then email Rick to talk contracts, as they vary per product. Make no assumptions eitherway until you've done this, you'll probably be wrong.

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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 12th Oct 2006 06:18 Edited at: 12th Oct 2006 06:22
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Quote: "A more likely approach for us (should this whole thing happen again, which I bet given time, it will) would be to create a board dedicated entirely for people pimping their own wares, stick a big fixed disclaimer at the top of it, and ban anyone from posting about their products in any other board here.

We would try this approach first before outlawing it totally.
"


A seperate board to 'pimp' our wares sounds great!

If a feedback system were set up where only buyers/sellers can leave feedback each transaction (like eBay's feedback), then people would know exactly who had complaints before they buy from them.

A Feedback Rating System is my only suggestion if such a board were ever created for FPSC merchants.


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Locrian
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Posted: 12th Oct 2006 07:29
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I personlly would be delighted to see a seperate board for the selling of stuff. To be honest I feel theres far to many people selling packs, and not enough people making games. I quit making a character pack for just that reason. It'll be nice when we can go to the media forums and see what people are making for games and not what crap(90% of it)people are tring to sell.
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Mr Love
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Posted: 12th Oct 2006 09:38
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"I personlly would be delighted to see a seperate board for the selling of stuff."

This is the best idea so far...


I want to see a FPSC Professional! And lets make it REALLY expensive this time......
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 12th Oct 2006 10:20 Edited at: 12th Oct 2006 10:24
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Quote: "...To be honest I feel theres far to many people selling packs, and not enough people making games... It'll be nice when we can go to the media forums and see what people are making for games and not what crap(90% of it)people are tring to sell. "


My 'crap' was offered shortly after FPSC was released back when people were screaming for FPSC-ready media.
If you think it is crap then don't buy it, but someone might like it. All media offered here is greatly appreciated by me regardless of the creators skill level. The more media the community has then the more options we have when making our games. Not all of us can't do it all, so we have to include outside media. I can never have too many choices when it comes to FPSC Media.

I postponed my FPSC-Game-Creating until the Save/Load was here.
Now we all know Save/Load is here with v103, so I'm back baby.
Not only are my games back in progress, but I now need to create more media for them.
I guess that means I will be releasing some new crap, including new scripts for v103, soon.


I hope the actions of a few won't result in the suffering of the many, but I can see TGC's point.
My 'crap' is offered in a download immediately after the payment is made.
The only people who didn't get delivery of my 'crap' were those who failed to return to my site after the payment transaction or they simply had overlooked the link for the download. In either case, the download was available to them the whole time. Honest mistakes can happen to everyone. I sometimes forget to check my e-mail, but I respond to people as soon as I can.

In ACCODE's case, I think it is a shame he won't, or can't, respond to his complaintants. Let's hope he didn't have his webhosting prepaid, and past away with his internet business unknown to his survivors. What if you guys bought the stuff off a dead man?



@ Bullshock
And here I was thinking Monster and Merranvo were the same person.
Silly me


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Benjamin A
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Posted: 12th Oct 2006 10:40
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Quote: "I quit making a character pack for just that reason. "


Locrian, I'm really sad to read this statement. We don't have many people who do make characters.

I do see your point and some of the stuff people do offer is crap, but some of it is excellent. Also we need to keep in mind that a lot of the user simply cannot or lack time to model and that the only reason I do release my packs. In return of all the hard work done for the packs (after all there are over 70 items in each of my pack) I'm asking a moderate fee, which I do think is completely fair. After all I have to invest into creating these packs as well.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 12th Oct 2006 17:19 Edited at: 13th Oct 2006 05:46
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Quote: "We don't have many people who do make characters."

Exactly!
That is because 3ds max is about $3500, unless you buy a student version, but I heard someone here in the forums say that the student version doesn't let you release your creations commercially. I am going to find out soon, because The Academic Superstore has a 1 year student license of 3ds max 8 for only $179. I am still a student, so this seems a good way to try 3ds max before I shell out twice the cost of a smoking fast new computer for a piece of software (I think $3500 for any computer program is rediculous). Take note of the eligibility chart on the right side of the page. K-12 is checked and that means any one in grade school or high school is eligible for the discount too! Hopefully, this can entice more of our talent on hand to give characters a whirl one time.

I tried rigging meshes to the bone set that Bullshock was kind enough to supply, but my character came out really small. When I tried scaling him up to the right size, every gun he held got enlarged and was gigantic. I don't know what was up with that. I am sure it was my error, because I hate the Milkshape Interface. I'm not knocking Milkshape, I'm just saying its not for me.


EDIT
Well, after looking at the Student License, it does say you can't use it commercially. So, forget that noise.

I guess Milkshape is the only affordable solution to creating FPSC characters.


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Locrian
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Posted: 12th Oct 2006 19:18
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When I said what I did, I certainly wasn't trying to step on any ones toes. Least of all, you guys, Benjamin A and Conjured Entertainment. But you have to admit for every post either of you guys make there's 9 more offering crap. There's some good stuff that comes from these forums most certainly. But the majority of it is fluff. I couldn't tell you guys one item from either of your packs. I'm sure there all quite good. That statement was more for all the new guys around here that prior to making a game, they wanna try and hit my wallet. Being that I model a little myself, no pack really interest me at all. Not guns or people or objects. I personally don't await any particular artist, because I don't want things in my games the same as anyone else. Now mind you as great as Errant AI's weapons are(I consider his work probably the only work on the forums where I cant yet match the quality, his works amazing), I still probably won't by his pack because I know everyone else will be, and It's hard to make an 'original' game with media everyone else has.

So, there we've named a few artist. There's a few more who's work is top notch. Bond, Jon, a few others. But the majority of stuff I don't even need to see. There's many forums on this TGC site that I don't frequent. Actually I only visit like 4 forums. Models, chat, showcase, and scripts. Having the "sales" take place in another forum allows me to skip the bull I don't want to see anyways.

As for the character pack Ben, there's only been one other person that's asked whatever happened to me making it. I didn't find enough interest to make it worth my time continuing when I can further my game with the time instead. What I've chosen to do instead is offer unrestricted licensing of the media in my game. This way people would get new characters, new objects, new segments, scripts, and the like. More of a total package and be able to market it on two levels, as media and as a playable game. Any item made by myself in the game would be in an included zip so others could access it. I look at this like a mega pack and something that's not offered currently in this sea of so many choices. But in even saying that, with a section for sales alone, people not interested in buying it don't even have to see the thread. I think this a very refreshing idea.
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FredP
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Posted: 12th Oct 2006 19:39
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Quote: "And here I was thinking Monster and Merranvo were the same person."


I am sure Merranvo will appreciate that...lol.

I think having a board where people sell their stuff (with the required disclaimer) is a good idea.
That would improve the Models and Media forum as well.
I also think that once forum members have been around a while they get the idea who to buy from and who to not buy from.

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JDforce
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Posted: 13th Oct 2006 17:41 Edited at: 13th Oct 2006 17:48
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One of the big advantages of purchasing in line is that you can indeed get a refund. I confirmed this with Share-It, 2C0 and others. Any software product purchased in line, that is not satisfactory, can be refunded regardless even on the licensing conditions, and this is by law, according to the Share-It representative. Am an online merchant myself and as provider must accept the rules.
Of course in the expectation of a good business relationship, it is advised to talk with the provider before asking a forced refund.
Moreover, the collecting business (like Share-it or world pay) is the one actually making the sell, and they are in turn purchasing from the provider. They have the actual names and legal representative address and business data of the original provider at all times, and that is available information.
There is a worldwide honorable agreement that forces those payment collector to comply with customer satisfaction rules, including refunds, which are costly to the product provider.
So, in the worst case that the provider is unavailable (even dead) and he does not deliver the product, the collector is obligued to refund, charging a fee to the offending provider. You can even obtain the business street address of the provider and contact information.
About PayPal, I do not use it and am not sure of conditions but they must be pretty in accodance with the information above, since they must comply with international rules and laws.

Edit: If the provider makes a voluntary refund, it generally does not have a penalty fee with the collector company.
If he is forced to refund, the collector company charge a penalty fee to the provider. A recurringly bad behaviour provider is banned from those collecting services, according to most collecting company conditions contract.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 13th Oct 2006 17:58
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Quote: "About PayPal, I do not use it and am not sure of conditions but they must be pretty in accodance with the information above"


I'm afraid not. The PayPal refund system sucks. You much request a refund within 30 days (as the customer), or you loose the chance. If the PayPal seller doesn't have the money in their account then even though PayPal will find in your favour, you won't get a penny back until the account has sufficient funds in it again, which may be never.

Share-It operates differently, and they act as resellers for the company, so you are covered by their guarantees. WorldPay do not do this, and they will not grant refunds direct to customers, they'll instead insist you contact your card company and push for a chargeback in the case of a non-delivery.

The site in question in this thread used PayPal, which in short means if the funds do not exist in the account (i.e. they spent or withdrew them) then you are crap out of luck. You can't even complain to your credit card company, because there isn't one.

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"Don't ping my cheese with your bandwidth" (Dilbert)
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 14th Oct 2006 03:27 Edited at: 14th Oct 2006 03:31
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Okay this is weird unless the Mods are messin with me.
I had a post here then uman posted after I did,but then my post and his disappeared.
Now the lobby shows that Keith posted here but I'm not showing that post either.
It keeps saying there are 46 posts and only displays the post that was before mine.
I may have to delete this post if this was some browser error but I shut down and it did the same thing.

Edit

Now it says 47 posts and I can see this, but it doesn't explain what happened to my other post or why it said uman and keith posted after me yet there is no such post

2nd edit
uman,
why did you delete my post?


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KeithC
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Posted: 14th Oct 2006 03:32
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I don't know either. My post was a test post to make sure something wasn't broken, then I deleted it (but it still showed me as the last poster). It looks like yours and Uman's was deleted for some reason as well. No idea.

-Keith


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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 14th Oct 2006 03:40 Edited at: 14th Oct 2006 03:45
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unknown huh?

Well, nothing I said in that post violated any rules.
I guess uman is still working out his explination as to why he deleted it.

edit
Yeah, yeah, I know he needs no reason why, but man thats harsh to delete a thread for no reason other than you didn't like my opinion.


2nd edit
I'm just saying that I need to know what he thought I did wrong if he doesn't want a repeat, because I have no clue as to how that post broke the rules.


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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 14th Oct 2006 03:44
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Ive had posts in the past be deleted too, with no reason why it was deleted. Its either the forum screwing up, or a sneaky mod deleting posts

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