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FPSC Classic Product Chat / X10 - What It Means To You

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LeeBamber
TGC Lead Developer
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Joined: 21st Jan 2000
Location: England
Posted: 13th Nov 2006 12:52
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Hi Guys,

X10 is going to be truely awesome, yes. It will put FPSC and DBPro users in a position where they can produce DirectX 10 games ahead of the seasoned developers, yes. It will be Vista only, yes. This however, is not what I want to talk about.

I have read almost all of this thread and wanted to shine a light into those dark fear-filled corners of the community. First of all, don't panic! Second, XP is not going anywhere for several more years, and will remain the bread and butter operating system for quite a while. Third, FPSC will continue to be updated with key fixes and speed improvements, freely available, as is our custom.

If you have assumed that Lee has stuck FPSC in a drawer, left XP users in the lurch and started coding for Vista on a whim, then you give me very little credit. FPSC has been worked on since its release over a year ago, and it is no co-incidence that DarkAI and DarkLIGHTS have been developed to be easily plugged into the engine. I returned from the NVIDIA G8800 launch on Friday, and spent the whole weekend fixing FPSC bugs for V104. I will continue in this manner until I have answered all the concerns of current FPSC users. I want a solid FPSC more than you guys!

BenjaminA & Bloodeath666 : Please email me directly with the urgent FPSC bugs you mentioned to lee@thegamecreators.com. Let us see if we can make V104 work for you guys

Doughboy : Sorry you have to go. Good luck with your future projects, thanks for checking out our stuff!

[anyone with showstopper FPSC bugs] : Please email me directly at lee@thegamecreators.com with as much information, screenshots and FPM levels as you think is required for me to reproduce your issue and solve it for V104!

A final thought about the current FPSC. Why would we stop maintaining our XP tool that took us three years to write, sold only for one year, which now has an expanding collection of model packs and a thriving community of game makers behind it? Why would we exchange that for a Vista community that does not even exist yet, where the equipment demands force only an elite following and is widely accepted as a year away from popularity? The answer, as stupidly obvious as it might seem, is that we won't stop developing for it! Not until we feel most of you are happy with the product.

So now you are happy in the knowledge that FPSC is in good hands, you probably want the inside story about this thing we call X10?

X10 is basically the working-title for our drive to upgrade our internal engines to DirectX 10 and Vista. I could bore you to death with the vast array of technical reasons why DX10 is so mind bogglingly great, but instead I want to highlight some of the benefits to you of our X10 plan:

hardcore users:
- you will be able to make Vista games before anyone else
- you will be one of the first to produce DX10 content
- there are features on a DX10 card than are totally exclusive
- be an innovator in a brand new territory - so many opportunities
- whatever you make will look better and run faster (by default)

casual users:
- by the time you upgrade to Vista, X10 will be well tested
- you will enter a community that has established advice for you
- most new machines will ship with Vista next year (+cheaper dx10)

We have a strong team, and are absolutely dedicated to making our software easy, affordable and fun. Thanks to the incredible dedication of the TGC community, we continue to work under your creative tyranny. Keep on posting guys!

One last thing, posts containing the words '..i get load of bugs..' or '..its buggy..' does not help me improve FPSC. Please help me in my mission to destroy all such rumours by emailing me your very reproducable bugs to lee@thegamecreators.com and together we can squash them. Cheers!

"Small, smart, and running around the legs of dinosaurs to find enough food to survive, bedroom programmers aren't extinct after all "
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DJ Professor K
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Posted: 13th Nov 2006 13:20
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Well, it's true that sooner or later, everyone will switch to vista, with winXP was the same thing, no one liked it in the begining until they fully tried it.

I hope to see more work on both sides of FPSC, from this one, and Vista version

My love is seperated in 2 parts, 1 of them is 3ds Max 7, the other; FPSC.
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Zizaco
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Posted: 13th Nov 2006 13:37 Edited at: 13th Nov 2006 13:42
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"This new version is designed to work exclusively on Windows Vista PCs with DX10 hardware. It is an easy to use yet highly flexible tool for creating action packed First Person Shooter games with stunning 3D gaming results. Now anyone can make cool looking Next-Gen FPS games!

Create your game instantly with the intuitive 3D editor. Drag and drop walls, lights, doors, enemies, ammo, weapons and more - with pixel perfect precision, and watch as they intelligently link together. Then with one click of the mouse, play your game.

FPS Creator X10 uses custom scripts for every element of the game. From the enemy AI behaviours, to the way a key might open a door. Nearly everything is controlled via a script rather than hard coded into the program. This means for those that wish to get their hands dirty then can op en up the script files into any text editor and re-code them. Although it's perfectly possible to create a large and complex game without entering a single line of code, the option is there if you want that extra level of control."


------------------------------

------------------------------


http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_fpscx10_home.html
Looking good... but only vista... ¬¬


I think you should improve the actual FPSC. Like the FVF of static objects to hold Parallax Shader or other Tangent based shaders...

Sorry for my bad inglish!
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Silvester
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Posted: 13th Nov 2006 13:39
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If X10 is uit,i might just be an EA purchaser,however...i still hate Vista.as it crashes on my graphics cards...(Dont got any better then Nvidea Gforce FX 6600,wich is my dads...)

...No Signature here...
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xplosys
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Playing: FPSC Multiplayer Games
Posted: 13th Nov 2006 14:47
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Quote: "Looking good... but only vista... ¬¬


I think you should improve the actual FPSC. "


Daaaa... did you even read the first post?

The forum provides a means to hide our true identity. Too bad we always screw up and let it be seen.

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Luke314pi
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Posted: 13th Nov 2006 16:07
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Thanks Lee. I probably won't update to Vista for at least a year, so it is nice to know that you will still be working on the XP version. It is also nice to know that when I do make the jump, an even better FPSC will be waiting for me.

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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 13th Nov 2006 18:05
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What do I care if its vista only, dont tease me with better graphics when I cant have it. This kind of annoyed me.

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FredP
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Posted: 13th Nov 2006 18:42
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Quote: "What do I care if its vista only, dont tease me with better graphics when I cant have it. This kind of annoyed me."


I don't understand that.
Before anything new comes out they always show it off...that's the way of the world.
I have an XBox (and I won't go into how Bill Gates and his company dropped support as soon as they release the 360) and I didn't get offended when they showed media from the 360.I did get offended by how they dropped the original Xbox but I digress...
Either we will get Vista sooner or later (I hate change so in my case...and due to my budget...I am guessing later in my case).
This is something everybody is getting all fired up about and it is not going to happen tomorrow.
The fact is that XP and XP products will be around for a few more years.
Five years from now we will all be using the "next gen" FPSC.
When the other FPSC X10 thread or whatever you want to call it got started some people were concerned and that's okay.
But I think this whole thing is getting blown way out of proportion.
We have this generation of FPSC to worry about,games to make and things to do.
This is beginning to turn into a major distraction.
I think we need to get back to what we were doing before this whole next gen FPSC thing got started.
BTW this is just my opinion and no offense was intended to anyone.

http://www.wembley1967.com
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Gamz
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Posted: 13th Nov 2006 19:10
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Will we have to buy the new version of FPSC when we upgrade to Vista?

I am a manifestation of your subconscious.
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Candle_
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Posted: 13th Nov 2006 22:08
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Quote: "Will we have to buy the new version of FPSC when we upgrade to Vista?"

What do you think.

Candles freebies
My FPSC Files
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glyvin101
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Posted: 13th Nov 2006 23:05
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Will any new features be added to the current FPSC or just bug fixes and optimization

GLyvin101
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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 13th Nov 2006 23:11
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Yes im not so much worried as to the bugs as you think, im more as worried about features and stuff, why cant dark ai and dark lights or w/e their called be imported to fpsc, why cant there be ragdoll physics, why does fpsc slow down with like 20 dynamic objects spread througout the level, why does it take so long to load.

How come all this happens, if you can add/fix these things, like dynamic objects dont slow down game, or better ai/ light maps/ faster load times, any of those would be great, specially the BETTER AI option, if you lee can make an ai that can even attempt to make the game hard with just 1 or 2 entites in the room then ill be really happy

If youve ever played CONDEMMNED you'll know what i mean, like i want to make an fpsc game thats HARD! where life packs and med packs are VERY VERY important, like 2 enemys at once can take down the player


Death has no end
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FredP
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Posted: 13th Nov 2006 23:39
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Quote: " why cant dark ai and dark lights or w/e their called be imported to fpsc,"

They can and probably will be eventually.
FPSC was made using DarkBasic Pro so it would make since that anything that is made for DarkBasic Pro can and will eventually be available for FPSC.
While you are at it wish for DarkPhysics to come to FPSC as well.
While they may not be the same as the ones for DBP and they probably won't be free a lot of what you can do with DBP should,in theory,trickle down to FPSC now.

http://www.wembley1967.com
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MustangGT
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Posted: 14th Nov 2006 00:07
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Hi, I am new to FPSC and in fact to this gamming thing (I'm a VS .Net developer)

well anyways I was thinking in buying FPSC but looking at this would it be a wise idea to wait till x10 comes out, how much will x10 cost? if i were to buy version 1.03 how much will it be the upgrades? will current models such as dark matters and so on work in x10?

regards,

Fernando Baeza
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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 14th Nov 2006 00:28
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I would hope darkphysics wouldnt be ported over to fpsc, because there are a ton of licensing restrictions with it, and i like FPSC's current license


http://www.seqoiagames.com/seqoiacorp/
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MK83
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
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Posted: 14th Nov 2006 00:36
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Thanks Lee for shining a light on our future.


http://www.mk83productions.com http://www.freewebs.com/mk83
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Jams38
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Posted: 14th Nov 2006 03:55
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Thanks Lee,

I always find it funny how people can get so upset about nothing.
Keep up the good work,and i will continue to patiently wait for future updates and fixes.


Thanks
Jams
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Doughboy
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Posted: 14th Nov 2006 04:20 Edited at: 14th Nov 2006 04:22
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I haven't fell off the truck yet, I'm still slightly holding on.

What future plans do you have for the current FPSC? Will there be a V2... and when? Can you just lie to me and say v2 is in "development"?

I could care less about the "looking better" aspect of x10... the graphics in the current version look alright to me. It's the lack of outdoor support (sun/terrain/better lighting [don't tell me you need dx10 for better lighting!] - collision problems), weather effetcs, water, map size control, inability to change skies in different levels (just one of the many examples which = not enough control over your game), multiplayer (needs to be improved... teams!) etc. etc. The lack of those types of basic game creating features is really need to be addressed before you do hardcore marketing.

Will these kinds of features be in x10? If FPSC x10 had features like that, I could see a reason for purchasing it, if they don't I don't see any point... then you'll just get a bunch of new customers complaining about the cookie cutter games that are made from the software... the fact that it may look a bit better then the current version is outweighed heavily by the lack of control.

You really have a chance to make the best FPS creating software out there, it's close, but more control and more features are needed before doing something like x10... unless x10 has the features I described.

Doughboy's FPSC Wishlist
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stormboy
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Posted: 14th Nov 2006 10:53
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I agree one hundred thousand percent with Doughboy.

We need features but not so much graphics features.

And for a start features that allow people to
use FPSC to make semi pro games should be a priority,
ie, animated menus, including
basic stuff like setting screen resolutions,
key mappings etc.

Access to cameras so proper cutscenes could be made,
deeper access to the physics aspect to at least the degree where you can decide how far away the player holds the stuff.
Fade in fade out soundzones for proper transitions between soundtracks, some sort of particle system no matter how basic,
some half decent enemy ai scripts, removal of hardcoded roadblocks
like for example explode.wav, and so on.

The above would far outweigh in real value to most who actually use the software, any grand strategic upgraded version of the software
in the medium term.

I'd propose regular incremental updates of the existing engine,
and a far more public pr regime with regard to keeping the users
informed of what is coming next, if anything.

Enable us to make decent games by improving what exists now,
by listening to your customers,
Doughboy nails it when he says how it's about more control,
and an expanded feature set.
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RickV
TGC Development Director
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Posted: 14th Nov 2006 11:15
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TGC are taking this opportunity to create a new rendering pipeline for Direct X10. It's totally different to DX9 and so the chance to work closely with nVidia and get extra PR via their web site and marketing is something that TGC could not ignore. I know it creates some short term pain but the advance in technology will be beneficial longer term.

Development is not cheap and game making software is not as mass market as games, so we have to choose a wise strategy for moving forward.

I have copied the ideas you have listed here and we will at some point address them. For now it's X10 with bug fixes and tweaks to teh existing product.

Financial Director
TGC Team
[Check out Jed McKenna - http://www.wisefoolpress.com/]
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Nickydude
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Posted: 14th Nov 2006 16:43 Edited at: 15th Nov 2006 05:19
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Quote: "TGC are taking this opportunity to create a new rendering pipeline for Direct X10. It's totally different to DX9 and so the chance to work closely with nVidia and get extra PR via their web site and marketing is something that TGC could not ignore. I know it creates some short term pain but the advance in technology will be beneficial longer term.

Development is not cheap and game making software is not as mass market as games, so we have to choose a wise strategy for moving forward.

I have copied the ideas you have listed here and we will at some point address them. For now it's X10 with bug fixes and tweaks to teh existing product."


That statement there has now stopped my buying FPSC. Playing with the demo I was well impressed and couldn't wait to send my cheque for FPSC as well as model packs, I was just waiting for money to come into the bank on friday.

But that statement tells me TGC would rather play with their shiny new toy that put any real effort into the existing FPCS.

"For now it's X10 with bug fixes and tweaks to the existing product."

Nothing new, nothing addressed, just "what you have is what you've got with some miner polishes."

It's a shame as I was so looking forward to be able to create decent games as I assumed FPSC was still in it's infancy and looks to be one of a program. But that statement say's "we've all but dropped the 'old' FPCS as we have something new to play with."

I, for one, am disappointed and unless there are some major enchantments to the 'old' version, this is one customer you've lost.

FPSC Hint's and Tips Guide (pdf)
Best Regards,
Nickydude
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Stamina
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Posted: 14th Nov 2006 17:03
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Well,,being a beta tester for Vista, I can honestly say that I cant wait to try out X10. From those screens, it definatly looks 100 times better, but it's performance that I want to test.

More people than you know will be upgrading to VISTA, regardless of the hype and/or eyecandy that it presents. Having been testing VISTA RC2 for 5 months now, I can say that it will definatly improve the overall perfomance of you PC experience.

DX10 will definalty make your head turn with the amazingly improved graphics in gaming.

I CANT WAIT FOR X10.
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Avenging Eagle
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Posted: 14th Nov 2006 17:20 Edited at: 14th Nov 2006 17:20
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Its not that i don't want better graphics, better performance, faster rendering, better physics and better AI, i just don't want to lose all my programs that won't run on Vista.

someone should publish a list for what software runs on vista and what doesn't.
AE

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Candle_
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Posted: 14th Nov 2006 19:54
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Quote: "someone should publish a list for what software runs on vista and what doesn't."

Try this to see.

Candles freebies
My FPSC Files
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Mr Flowerkohl
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Posted: 14th Nov 2006 19:56 Edited at: 14th Nov 2006 19:57
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well...i love you guys lee

Those screenshots look really amazing. Okay, those effects are possible on DX9 graphics, too ( or lets say comparable effects ),
but i also think vista will bring a wide range of new
possibilities to us "game designers".

In february, i`ll get my "Bachelor of Computer Science in Media" Diploma and sure will upgrade as fast as i can to Vista. I understand
what Lee is saying about developing ahead seasoned developers and
THAT is a big big chance to get into this game creation business.

For the users which will use XP for a longer time, he said there
will be updates...well, so all`s fine guys.

For me, i hope to get this baby as fast as i can to start
REAL developing.

and i think at this point, we should thank lee and the team for
X10. Well, some other "game creation program creators" stopped
after the first buggy product. FPSC IS great ! and TGC are updating
all the time. Not every month, but thats totally normal. And X10
is not like death for V1.3 or 1.4 ! its an option to real serious
game design i think.

And now, i got some questions for myself

1. Which , besides the framerate, are the main improvements of X10?
2. Will there be new features ? In example, a server based
multiplayer option, or parallax mapping, ragdoll physics, bloom,
shaders at all ?
3. Will the Freedom, to create a game, be expanded or shrinked ?
Expanding means the product will be a little more complex
( what i would appreciate ) and shrinked , well...Gamemaker.

I wish you all a nice evening.

PS: are there any more screenshots or even streaming media...a
movieclip or something showing X10 in action ?

yeah...thats the ticket !
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monotonic
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Posted: 15th Nov 2006 12:27
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Sorry to go off the track here but....

Quote: "DarkAI and DarkLIGHTS have been developed to be easily plugged into the engine"


How would you incorporate DarkA.I into the fpsc engine, I take it you would need to alter and recompile the engine.

Ohh Zizaco those screenies look very nice indeed.

I know the voices aren't real, but they have good ideas!
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Raven
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Posted: 15th Nov 2006 13:02
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Some things I would like to see supported in v1.04 would be:

- Multiple .dba FPSC-GAME Source Project. By this I don't mean having the single .dba but splitting everything up into a complete project rather than a confusing source file. I find it difficult to believe that you've coded it all in a single source, and if you didn't then why did you feel that we needed it in such a state?

- Better Scripting System. As it stands the way you script in FPSCreator is very backward, you have an overly complex script system for a program designed to make peoples lives easier with a drag'n'drop application. The scripting really needs to be much better in terms of functionality over available features.

(I can expand on this if you like)

- Better Shader Support, particularly the lighting engine. I've found that most of the default objects in FPSCreator (don't own any of the model packs) while the lighting is far better with Shaders activated, the quality of the object normals often totally screws this up. Backfaces too often cause a serious problem in overall quality, being that (atleast on my 6200 and X1600) you will have noticeable black areas and facet shading going on with shaders activated.

- Better Path-Finding. A common issue I've had when dealing with putting in waypoints for characters to follow, is that if you make something like a corridor when you have a character move around a corner unless you have the waypoint 'exactly' in the center of the walkable area you end up with the character either getting stuck or becomming confused over it's angle. It also happens in a random fashion making it very difficult to know when it will work find and when it won't.

- Better control over Artificial Intelligence. Good example of this is trying to get characters to be passive while your behind a wall or glass. (particularly glass) As they seem to always be able to see/hear you and get set off.

- Better Timer Control. Having the game set to Sync 30 over having a proper timer-based system allowing the games to run as quick as the system they're developed on... actually in-fact even updating the engine to use Sync 60 would be a HUGE improvement; however still wouldn't be an ideal solution. Given just because you want your artwork to update every 60x Per Second doesn't mean you want the controls, physics, etc. also update so slow.

- Level Interaction. You can't have a Key and a Remote sequence to work in the same script, it's one or the other. In order to achieve that result I've made it so that a remote requires the key itself and that then opens the door; but requires some serious annoying updating.

- Hurt Areas. You can only seem to hurt the player not NPC/Objects; it would be good to be able to have the hurt value to be global rather than for player only.

I'm sure there's more but I've not used FPSC for a little while now.

Intel Core 2 Duo E6400, 512MB DDR2 667MHz, ATi Radeon X1900 XT 256MB PCI-E, Windows Vista Business / XP Professional SP2
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Airslide
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Posted: 16th Nov 2006 01:21
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Quote: "- Multiple .dba FPSC-GAME Source Project. By this I don't mean having the single .dba but splitting everything up into a complete project rather than a confusing source file. I find it difficult to believe that you've coded it all in a single source, and if you didn't then why did you feel that we needed it in such a state?"


Ah, I'd love that, thanks how I program all my DBP games now (and almost entirely made of functions!). I've already planned that any big ajustments I make the the source will be in a seperate file in a function, and you just put the function call in the right place in the source, which is usually helpful - you might want to try that (also lets you update your source to a new version without rewriting EVERYTHING.

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JerBil
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Posted: 16th Nov 2006 01:26
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Here are some details on dx10.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/11/08/what_direct3d_10_is_all_about/

Ad Astra Per Asper
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Jahya
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Posted: 16th Nov 2006 19:49
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Well, I'm glad to see the progress. Is DBPro going to have a DX10 version soon? I would wait on my purchace of DBPro if this is the case.

You mention this is only for FPSC, but would'nt it be more profitable to upgrade both?
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Airslide
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Posted: 16th Nov 2006 23:55
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Quote: "You mention this is only for FPSC, but would'nt it be more profitable to upgrade both?"


They HAVE to upgrade both, FPSC is made in DBP

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 17th Nov 2006 18:12
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Nice, glad I'm saving up for a Vista/DX 10 ready PC (Yeah I know I was gonna go Mac, but when you can get a quality customer PC for just under £500 and being a poor student, its worth it.

Its also a good reason for me not to give up my guns (DBP)

Looking at that FPSC creator X10 site I have the distinct feeling nVidia is about to make a move (or already has) onto funding/helping/taking over TGC.

Nice move.

"Cut down the gods if they stand in your way" - Hakamoto Tsunetomo
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 17th Nov 2006 22:40
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I would assume they would have to update both. If they didnt, well, that would suck for them, and us. I would like to know if I have to purchase FPSC x10, or if I can just freely upgrade to it (I already have FPSC).

I have a question about DirectX 10, if currently, my game runs at 64 FPS (Average), what might the new FPS be? In C++, I have a game running at 400 FPS in an open window, with nothing being rendered. What might the FPS rate be for that with DirectX 10? (There is a speed improvement, isnt there?)

Anyways, the new FPSC looks very nice. Lee Bamber is a damn good programmer. Keep up the good work TGC.

GameDeveloper, make your own games with a drag-and-drop interface. Basically t3dgm+fpsc editor combined.
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=86045&b=8&p=2
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Kenjar
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Posted: 17th Nov 2006 23:44
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Does this mean that TGC is using a Direct X 10 version of DarkBASIC Professional? FPSC was written in it after all, does this mean that us DarkBASIC Professional users will be getting a direct X 10 upgrade patch?

I lay upon my bed one bright clear night, and gazed upon the distant stars far above, then I thought... where the hell is my roof?
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Airslide
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Posted: 18th Nov 2006 00:00
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They already mentioned DB Vista is in production in another thread

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ZAKU
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Posted: 18th Nov 2006 18:35
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Hi Guys!
I'm Finally back from my trip to the Void and have to admit that this is probably the best news I could have expected to get on my return.

First things First though:

Lee,Guys,I need to seriously congratulate you on the success of your apparent co-operation agreement with Nvidea.
No One product deserves it more and As I'm currently busy finishing off a FPSC title of my own I need to also thank you guys for What I truly believe is possibly the best package for Small teams and Indie developers available at the moment.


I do see some concerns from people wondering about the original FPSC and whether or not it will continue to grow.
Obviously , using FPSC will still be the mainstayt for all of us,considering that DX10 and Vista will have its own teething period and consumers will start shifting more towards that only in time and not immediately.
Comments like "We can't currently make a decent game" and "It seems that TGC will be shifting to play with its new Shiny toy exclusively" are uneccesary.
Buy FPSC,You'll still be able to create titles for XP.
Giving us users the option to develop for Vista should in my opinion only Had Positive comments LOL

Proper Games?
Well.we've all seen that creating good quality titles is possible with the FPSC toolset,Amongst others I have a title shipping for International Distribution (Through an Actual Publisher) built on Version 1.0,not even incorporating the new updates.
*Any other Engine toolset has its share of bugs and after having worked in the industry as long as I have you quickly realize that even engines like UTK and SOurce has more problems that FPSC.
I will almost invite a flame war by suggeesting that if you have not yet been able to produce something of quality with FPSC,there may be another problem,aside from the mentioned shortcomings of FPSC,maybe the guy behind the project?
I personally can't wait for X10.
(Where do I Sign up,buy it as an EA?)


Making the Leap to DX10 is always going to be great for the us all.
I see from other articles that I've read that the only other studios that have been workin gon DX10 and Vista Content are all the "BIG Boys"
(THe Crysis , Source and ID engines)

What all of us need to keep in mind is that while these bigger guys will be able to produce a prototype in 8-12 months upon themm being fully DX10 ready,we,using FPSC can have a prototype ready in
a much shorter timeframe.
(This gives us a Huge advantage)

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Olde Skool Programmer
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2006 05:56
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Ack, why does it always have to be about the graphics??? Especialy hyper-realistic graphics? Whatever happened to using the imagination and plaing through a well-told story? Argh... I just got the a blasted XP box on a cheap, crapola Medion machine last year and most of my programs won't run on it (I'm a straight-up Win98 user all the way!) and it's a major headache trying to upgrade the games I write to work on XP! I should just stick to 2D games, but even that's not popular anymore. Sigh...

By the way, it IS possible to trick out a 98 box if you know what you're doing!!

Go do that voodoo that you do so well!
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Veron
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2006 02:31
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In X10, will vehicles be supported, so the player can drive/fly around, and get in and out of the vehicles? This would be a feature which I see as needing to be added in to X10.
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enablerbr
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2006 12:13
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will the texture size limit of 512x512 be raised. to say 1024x1024, 2048x2048 and pushing my luck here, 4096x4096?
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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2006 13:44
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i must say that i'm absolutely, unequivocably, irrepressibly, IMPRESSED!!!

no matter what, you've positioned FPSC as a serious contender... regardless of the abuse it's had to take for the early part of it's life...

i'm enjoying pointing this out to the fanboy guilds on some of the other forums around the net... to see the reaction that a largely discounted tool will be one of the first Vista game dev tools...

good luck with this...

--Mike
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James Cornett
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Posted: 24th Nov 2006 04:19
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While yes, the graphics are impressive, I must agree with Nickydude. Unless us FPSC users get some sort of 'upgrade discount' like most other updated programs offer (of course, one would have to use their SN to verify if such a deal is done) for working with what is basically a heavily bugged version of the software, I feel like my getting FPSC was a waste of time. I've barely even touched FPSC at all since the upgrades started screwing with the software's ability to function and was considering getting back into the mix until I read this thread.

Things have gotten too much about graphics this and graphics that without fixing the real issues of the software. I mean, it took us two actual updates and three release candidates before one of the main demands was given in a workable way; the rest of the bugs were graphic- or physics-related ones that you would only know if you're a programmer, which wasn't who this program was intended for.

And who wants to bet that this gets pushed aside again for Dark Basic? I mean, yeah, prog's done in DB, but still, I would think we've gotten beyond the point where we really have to use DB to code FPSC. It can be a standalone in its own right without having to rely on the DB coding! That may be one of the program's biggest weaknesses to date, having to rely on another TGC product for its functionality.

I'm probably going to format my computer tomorrow, and I'm trying to decide if I should even bother putting FPSC back on now that I know this information. I'd like to make the next Deus Ex as much as you guys, but my patience with TGC is starting to get thin. I thought you guys 'got it'...but between the delays and disappointments in updates, and now this news, I'm starting to question that.
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Nickydude
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Posted: 24th Nov 2006 09:19
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Well I took the plunge and bought it, complete with all model packs. I'm going on the premise that the XP version won't get left behind with sporadic patches that solves the odd bug now and again. I would be sorely disappointed if the XP version didn't get the same attention as the X10 version.


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Gemstone Games
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Posted: 24th Nov 2006 09:58
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Well, Nickydude, the program was running fine as it was, the only real issue anyone had was the lack of a save/load feature. The rest of the complaints were things that were unrealistic for a $50 program. I mean, vehicles? Teams? Most of the people asking for that are likely trying to make a Quake or Half-Life fan game, unlike some of us more serious types who've been trying to get into developing videogames for a while.

Now, it just strikes me as odd that, once they finally got the save/load feature, suddenly they announce "HEY! We've got a new game maker coming out soon and it'll be better than the one we just fixed for you guys! Ain't that cool? And you'll get the same updates and everything!" Well, only we didn't really start getting updates for FPSC V1 until about September, about a whole year after the program had already been out! And again, 90% of the bugs are things that, while the intentions are good, have done nothing but mess up the functionality of the program.

They claim the delay was due to DB Pro needing to be updated, but TGC should be able to create a version of the program without needing DBP, because then you're relying on one program's limitations to create a second that's likely going to be more limited. Like I said, FPSC's biggest weakness would have to be that they rely heavily on DB Pro's language rather than create it as a standalone program. Businesswise it was a good decision so they could offer the program cheaper, but with everything that's capable of being done on comps these days, you'd think that creating FPSC outside of DB Pro would be possible by now.

And personally, with as much complaints as I've been hearing about Vista (my upstairs neighbor has an RC of it and has been letting me watch him mess around with it, and he's got the kind of certifications most IT guys would have)....

Alls I'm gonna say is, there'd better be a compatibility wizard on Vista like there is on XP, and if there is, my neighbor hasn't found it yet. Because I'd be willing to bet that with everything they're planning to put into X10 and based on the screenshots shown so far, it's going to be a good chunk of change that is likely going to take me a long while to save up for. X10's going to have to be a full-fleged minor-bugs-only deal that runs circles around FPSC before I'm ready to upgrade. Heck, FPSC barley runs on comsumer-level comps now...and from the sound of it, you're practically going to need a gaming-based comp in order to even run Vista at its true capabilities. Sorry, I'm not in that much of a rush to follow the crowd.

TGC needs to work on the FPSC product they have now instead of drawing attention to X10, and people need to quit asking for ridiculous things that really shouldn't need to be focused on for independent games. Back when I was part of the RM2K community, we had some similar deals like with this, but at least most of the people there learned to work within the program's means if it meant getting their completed game out to their audience. And the reason why it worked is because the company cracked down and said "You know what...you prove to us that you can work with what you've got first...THEN we'll talk about adding what you're suggesting."

Formerly JMC...
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FredP
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Posted: 24th Nov 2006 14:13
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Quote: "Well, Nickydude, the program was running fine as it was"


You must be using a different version of FPSC than everybody else then.
Just because the save/load feature was implemented doesn't mean FPSC is running smoothly.
And I thing there are a variety of things that people would like to see implemented into FPSC and not all of them are unreasonable.
And some of them (like vehicles) can be simulated...I have already explained how you could do it.
Other things (such as allies) can already be implemented into FPSC (see Sensei and Empty's mod) and I am sure that TGC can implement that code into FPSC in the future.
TGC isn't going to quit working on and/or supporting this version of FPSC.
That would be bad PR and bad business.
And in case you haven't been paying attention we have had five upgrades to FPSC and Lee has been around the forums quite a bit trying to help us as much as possible.
Look in the bug reports forum.

Quote: "They claim the delay was due to DB Pro needing to be updated, but TGC should be able to create a version of the program without needing DBP"


FPSC is coded with DarkBasicPro.It is required to make TGC function.
For TGC to try to use another language to program FPSC in is illogical.

TGC is not dropping support for FPSC as we know it.And some of us need to quit freaking out.
It's going to be a while before the next gen FPSC is ready to go.

http://www.wembley1967.com
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Nickydude
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Posted: 24th Nov 2006 15:15 Edited at: 24th Nov 2006 15:15
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Quote: "TGC is not dropping support for FPSC as we know it.And some of us need to quit freaking out."


I confess, I am paranoid, but can you blame me..

Quote: "
RickV TGC Commercial Director
For now it's X10 with bug fixes and tweaks to teh existing product."


(emphasis was mine)


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Roger Wilco
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Posted: 24th Nov 2006 16:26 Edited at: 24th Nov 2006 16:27
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EDIT: Nvm, didn't check the whole thread, lol

Oh dark, the darkness that dozes in the dusk. Throw it all away. No one can break you, nobody can tear you. You live an endless life forever.
- Everett Bradley - Throw it All Away (Theme of Shadow)
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RickV
TGC Development Director
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Posted: 24th Nov 2006 16:37
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Here's another X10 image that we forgot to show.

Financial Director
TGC Team
[Check out Jed McKenna - http://www.wisefoolpress.com/]

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RickV
TGC Development Director
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Posted: 24th Nov 2006 16:48
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Don't be paranoid - we're looking at adding Fog into the current version at present and we are fixing issues when we find them.

Financial Director
TGC Team
[Check out Jed McKenna - http://www.wisefoolpress.com/]
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Nickydude
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Posted: 24th Nov 2006 17:19
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Thank you Rick, I just didn't want to see an excellent product get left behind for a 'flashier' version


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RickV
TGC Development Director
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Posted: 24th Nov 2006 17:30
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All areas of FPSC that need "work" will be worked on. We have a cool foundation and plan to build upon it!

Financial Director
TGC Team
[Check out Jed McKenna - http://www.wisefoolpress.com/]
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