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NVIDIA Competition 2008 / Scraggle's Puzzle Game

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 18th Jan 2007 01:51
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Quote: "I thought if I could take a geosphere and move the vertices sinusodially and also apply a sphere map (the same one I use for my silver objects) to it then it would pass for a blob of liquid mercury."


Why not use the bubble.fx file that comes with DarkBASIC? On my system it's in Help/Examples/Basic3D/fx/bubble .

You never know - it might be just what you want.

Except it assumes a sphere I think ...
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Scraggle
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Posted: 18th Jan 2007 09:38
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The main reason for not using the bubble shader is because I was completely oblivious to it!
Thank you for pointing it out I have just had a quick play around with it and it looks perfect for what I had in mind. With, of course, the exception of the texture. I will need to apply a sphere map to it but then it will have two shaders simultaneously which can't happen. So, somehow I will need to adapt the shader file to allow them both to work together. It should be possible because one is a pixel shader and the other a vertex shader.

I have to leave for work shortly but I will give it a go tonight.



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Scraggle
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Posted: 19th Jan 2007 21:57 Edited at: 19th Jan 2007 21:59
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I've just been reading the rules of the compo and I found this:
Quote: "If you fill your WIP thread with loads of screen shots and demos, and actually talk to people who give you constructive feedback, you will get the full 10 points available. In short, the less you write, the less points you get."


So, I thought I may aswell upload some more screenies and hopefully get some more feedback

This is a screenie from level 3 "Treasure Hunt"
The objective of Treasure Hunt is to collect all the gold objects and as you can see, I only have one more to get


This is the Timer/Objective display. Because the level is almost complete, the objective bar is almost full. However, I have almost run out of time, which is why the Timer bar is red and almost empty. It is also why the light in the middle is flashing red.


Now some close-ups.
Here you can see I have just collected an object and it is exploding. You can also see the score I got for doing it floating above the explosion.


This image shows the Gold, Copper and Silver objects. You can also see the 'Reduce Bonus' pick-up. Collecting the pick-up will cause your bonus to decrease far faster than it was doing


This image shows the 'Increase Bonus' pick-up. Collecting it resets your bonus to 9999


This one shows the Furry objects, the Score pick-up and the Bonus multiplier pick-up. Collect the Score pick-up will give you a huge (but unknown until collection) boost to your score. The Bonus multiplier pickup will do just that ... multiply your bonus. you only get the bonus at the end of the level. So, if you have let it run down to zero then no amount of bonus multiplying is going to help.




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Roxas
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Posted: 19th Jan 2007 22:08
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Omg this looks awesome!

I have no soul.. I nobody.. I have no heart.. I have felt in the darkness.. Im the darkness.. Whatever..
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Mike Inel
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Posted: 20th Jan 2007 12:25
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Wow, they look shiny and fancy! ............3 imacs?!?! You're so cool!

Programmers does a big participation in a game, yet they have the least credit.
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Scraggle
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2007 13:15
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Quote: "You're so cool!"


Hmmm .... smells like sarcasm to me but you are correct none-the-less ... I am cool

Update
In an attempt to keep Green Gandalf (and my father-in-law to be) happy, I have now included four diffent levels of difficulty. You just can't select them yet because I haven't made an options screen for it. So, that is the next step.

I have also added a whole new game idea. You now have the option to play the missions based game as it appears in the last demo or a 'Classic' game.
In the classic game when you click an object, the previous one explodes. A few seconds later the gap is replaced by a blob of stuff. A few more seconds and the stuff is replaced by a clickable shape again. So, there will always be objects to click on.
The Timer Bar and Objective Bar will both start off in the middle and will both move together, reducing with time but increasing with each object you successfully destroy. So, you need to destroy the objects quickly to progress to the next level. In the next level you will have more materials to contend with ... ergo, each level gets progressively more difficult.

I will upload a demo of this new game style later because I would like feedback on the difficulty level of it. Although again there will be four levels to choose from.

I haven't had chance to attempt to integrate the bubble shader with a reflection shader yet so the blob of stuff is still just stuff.



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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2007 19:48 Edited at: 24th Jan 2007 21:08
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Quote: "In an attempt to keep Green Gandalf (and my father-in-law to be) happy"


Thank you.

Edit: (24 Jan) Did you sort out your reflection+wobble thing - or were my hints too opaque? If you're still stuck I'll make the changes myself. Just let me know.
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Scraggle
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Posted: 24th Jan 2007 23:58 Edited at: 25th Jan 2007 00:10
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Nope, can't get both to work at the same time

Would love it if you could ... that would be fabulous, thank you.

Here is a close-up of the 'bubbles' I'm using at the moment.


.. and full screen:


I think they wold look much better if they were reflective



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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 25th Jan 2007 00:24
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They look pretty good already. Will try to follow my own advice (from the other thread) and knock it into shape - not tonight though. I'm off work tomorrow so I'll give it a go when I'm next allowed to be anti-social.

Just got my 2nd version of a DOF shader working (sort of) and have decided to quit while I'm ahead for the day - nothing worse than going to bed with a bug bothering one.
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 25th Jan 2007 18:50
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Scraggle

I've just posted a combined version of the "reflective" and wobble shaders for you.

It isn't true reflection, of course. Let me know if you want your scene reflected instead. That will affect performance because you would need to render the scene to a camera image, etc (but it could be done).

It took rather more fiddling about than I expected - mainly because the "bubble.fx" code wasn't mine and it took a bit of sorting out (I would probably have done some things differently).

One problem is that there are lots of things to tweak and you may have an object scaling problem (as in your original fur shaders). I've tried to include some hints in the FX file - but they don't cover all situations.

Let me know how you get on.

Good luck.
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Scraggle
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Posted: 25th Jan 2007 19:56
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Thanks GG!

I will take a look at it and let you know how I get on.

You're a star



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Scraggle
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Posted: 27th Jan 2007 15:58 Edited at: 28th Jan 2007 10:05
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New Demo

I would really love some feedback on the difficulty level of the game. Obviously I am quite expert at it now and Mrs. Scraggle who is play testing it for me is getting rather good at it too. So, I need some opinions from people that haven't played it yet (or not much anyway).

You start playing at 'Normal' difficulty but you can change it at any time by pressing keys 1-4 (1 = Easy).

In this demo you can play the 'Classic' game. There are no missions to complete in this style of gameplay. Instead the timer and the objective bar will start at half filled and will decrease if you do nothing. To progress to the next level, you need to fill them. You do that by destroying objects and you do that by clicking on any object that is the same shape and/or material as the one you are on.

The first object you click on must be in the outer shell. You will get more points for getting objects nearer the centre. Your score will increase as the length of your chain increases (how many in a row). You can break the chain at any time by clicking on the Break The Chain button. You will then be able to select any shape in the outer shell again but of course your scores for getting new shapes will be dramatically reduced.

There will always be objects to destroy because they don't disappear when you destroy them. Instead they turn into a 'bubble' that can't be selected. After a short period that bubble turns back into a shape.

The options screen isn't fully implimented yet so clicking on the options button might produce some wacky results!

The music in the level is by Matt McFarland and the music between levels is by Fallout. I have emailed both of them requesting permission to use their music and hopefully I will get the go-ahead otherwise I will have to find something else

Please let me know how you get on.

Thanks

[Edit] Got the go-ahead from Matt and Fallout



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Scraggle
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Posted: 27th Jan 2007 21:46
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Here is the latest You Tube Video.



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Scraggle
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Posted: 29th Jan 2007 19:14
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My latest demo has been downloaded 6 times and yet Spooky is the only person I have feedback from.

Come on people, please give me some feedback. Good, bad, I really don't mind but I would like something to give me an idea of what needs tweaking in the final two weeks.

Thanks



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BatVink
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Posted: 30th Jan 2007 11:17 Edited at: 30th Jan 2007 11:21
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Here's my thoughts:

Look & Feel: Very good, matches the style of game. Can't really suggest any improvements in this area

Music: Matches the game again. Could potentially get annoying, maybe an extra 2 or 3 tracks would alleviate the frustration.

Gameplay: Nice and easy to pick up. Maybe a beginner could benefit from some pop-up messages - i.e
"FIND THE SAME SHAPE OR COLOUR TO PROGRESS" - just for the first 3 or 4 shapes
"37 ITEMS NEEDED TO MAKE THE CHAIN"
"STUCK? BREAK THE CHAIN AND START AGAIN"

Difficulty - probably about right. Your judges will be experienced enough to use the mouse to navigate quickly, meaning that their only challenge is eye/brain coordination!

Problems I had:
I couldn't take my eyes from the playing area to the information panel. Maybe this will come with time, but your judges don't have time on their side. So maybe audio and text indicators may help to resolve the issue. I had no concept of how much time I had or how close to the goal I was.

The other issue was tracking the current object. I can see the "static" effect, but in the confusion of all the moving objects, you struggle to find it again if you take your eye off it.



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BatVink
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Posted: 30th Jan 2007 13:16
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Update: I see now that the music changes with the level. It's taken me about 15 minutes to pluck up the courage to look at the info panel

When trying to find the current object again, one problem is that the object under the cursor also "staticifies" (new word, copyright Steve Vink 2007).



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Scraggle
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Posted: 30th Jan 2007 19:07 Edited at: 30th Jan 2007 19:14
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Thanks for the feedback

Now let's see if I can address some issues:

The music. There are six music track in total. One for each of the level styles in 'mission' mode and one for between the levels. In 'classic' mode I had just the one track repeating. So, that tells me you have tried the older download that was mission based. You are right though, I should have them cycling through in the classic mode too.

Pop-ups Not a bad idea, but would get very annoying very quickly if each time you played it you got the pop-ups for the first few goes. So, maybe have a 'log-in'. Instead of entering your name when you get a high score, you enter your name at the start of play. That way the game 'knows' that you are a beginner (or not) and can give you help accordingly. That could work!

Not being able to take you eyes away from the play area to see the info panel:
I know it's a good looking screen but come on!
Seriously though, I know what you mean. It can get a bit too hectic to look to see how well (or not) you are doing. So, how about this: I have a green light above the main play are that is permanantly glowing. Perhaps I could turn it off and then have it flash green when you are close to completing the level and flash red when you are close to running out of time. Would that work?

[edit] Like this:


Staticification :
I have had that complaint before. So, I have enlarged the static animation to make it easier to spot and made the colours more distinct. Did you notice they were different colours? Blue for the one you have selected. Green if the one you are over can be selected and red if it can't. Perhaps I could employ another method too. How about: If you don't click on anything for 2-3 seconds then assume you have lost focus and have some kind of obvious indicator to show where the selected object is?

Top feedback ... thank you!



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BatVink
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Posted: 30th Jan 2007 19:37
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That all sounds good to me. I like the idea of a "Bloody Big Light" at the top for numpties like me. And the extra staticification would also be good. Even if was only momentary it would attract your attention.



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TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 30th Jan 2007 21:35
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You could always just add a pause button. And maybe cover up the play screen whilst paused so that you can't use it as a cheat to plan your moves. I don't know if that would work as I haven't actually tried the game due to the resolution problem.

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Ric
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Posted: 9th Feb 2007 15:11
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Scraggle: Superb game. I have sent you some feedback via email.

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Scraggle
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Posted: 10th Feb 2007 11:03 Edited at: 10th Feb 2007 11:04
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Ric, thanks for the feedback

Most of the issues you have addressed have been fixed. There are still a couple of niggles but I don't think anything else can be done now. In fact, I am not even sure that the game can be submitted at all now.

I was testing some sprite images which covered the play area and you couldn't see what you were doing. It was only a test, so it shouldn't have been a problem. Unfortunately, I then ran in to this problem which means I can't compile any more! If I hadn't been testing the sprites at the time of the problem then I could have submitted my game as is. Now though it is unplayable, so unless I can fix the problem, it looks like I might be out

You want to know how I did the semicircular time bars. I will tell you but not at the moment. Right now I am desperate to try and fix my PC. I am only posting this in the hope that someone might know what the problem is and be able to offer a fix.

Thanks



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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 10th Feb 2007 12:16
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If you just want to compile it I'll do that for you if you like.
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Scraggle
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Posted: 10th Feb 2007 12:54
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Thanks Green that's very kind of you

I might just have to take you up on that offer ... but first I am going to spend as much time as I can trying to get my PC to compile for me.



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Scraggle
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Posted: 10th Feb 2007 21:18 Edited at: 10th Feb 2007 21:22
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Since I have been unable to compile, I have spent most of my spare time (between 6 nations Rugby) making 'How to play' pages.

I will post them here for people that have downloaded the demo and don't know what to do. Or for people that might want to download the demo.

Click the thumbnails for full screen images:

Page 1


Page 2


Page 3




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Flashing Blade
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Posted: 10th Feb 2007 22:48 Edited at: 11th Feb 2007 11:14
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Bad news your PC playing up scraggle. Hope you get it fixed so you can address the resolution problem I have. I realy like the look of this - it looks so shiny and professional. I'd realy like to play it.

Also I've heard a rumour that the director of financing promising indie projects at Mastertronic has a monitor that doesn't go above 1024x768


*edited* 1020*768 changed to 1024*768 - ty peter


The word "Gullible" cannot be found in any English Dictionary.
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Peter H
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Posted: 10th Feb 2007 23:24 Edited at: 10th Feb 2007 23:24
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Quote: "1020x768"

*cries and hopes you meant 1024x768*

[edit] oh... you were joking

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Master Xilo
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Posted: 11th Feb 2007 15:20 Edited at: 11th Feb 2007 15:25
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Wow, that's a really funny and innovative game!!!
I can't stop playing it. But I can't open the options menu in the 5 parts demo, I downloaded.
But here my rating (for your game so far):

sfx:
music:
gfx:
fun:
gameplay:





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Scraggle
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Posted: 15th Feb 2007 13:41 Edited at: 15th Feb 2007 14:47
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Thanks Master X

I posted my game today by snail mail recorded delivery. At least that way I get a guarantee that it will arrive.
Because my PC died (the RAM problem was only a temporary fix) I am very much behind. I can only work on it for an hour or two at work after hours. So, I didn't get to fully implement the display options or the audio options and the game hangs when you try to exit, but at least there is a game in there.

I will try to fix the hanging problem and maybe get the audio and display options in too, and then FTP it. But it is my fiancés birthday tomorrow, so I can only get in an hour maybe two tonight and then I will have to send what I have or leave it with the snail mailed version.



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Smilodon
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Posted: 15th Feb 2007 23:46
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I think this is a Problem:

Runtime Error 1507 - Display using 32 bit is not supported by available harware at line 0

I've downloaded the Demo from here:
"Click here to download the latest Demo of the 'Classic' game (27th January 2007)"

and every time I try to run it, this message appear.
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Scraggle
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 20:17
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You're not wrong, that is a problem. It is because your monitor does not support 1280x1024.

I was hoping to use tonight to resolve that (and a few other issues) and get a complete version uploaded but my PC crashed (again) and took my source code with it. I have 'save on compile' set on the IDE and it must have been saving at the time of the crash because now I can't open the code.
I still have another copy on another PC but it is a week old, so, those final tweaks are not going to happen.

I'm just glad I snail mailed a nearly complete version yesterday.

I will upload the version that I mailed and edit this post when it is ready but if your monitor doesn't support 1280x1024 then I'm afraid it won't work for you

I will buy some new RAM and hope that fixes my PC problem, then I will resolve the display issue and upload a version that anyone can play. Although that will now be after the deadline ... obviously!



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Van B
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 20:21
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You can hack the exe to allow say, 1024x768. If you don't mind I can try and hack it.

But, are you using the default IDE? - if so try loading that source code into notepad, and look for some horrible corruption, that can happen sometimes but if you delete that, you tend to get most of your code back.


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
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Scraggle
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 20:28
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Thanks for the offer VanB but hacking the exe won't help. There are a few sprites and objects that I didn't add scaling code to. I kept putting it off because I wanted to get at least one version available.

I have just opened my code in NotePad and it all seems to be there. So, I will have a play and see if I can get it loaded up somehow.
Thanks for the suggestion



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Scraggle
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 20:34 Edited at: 16th Feb 2007 20:44
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I take that back!

I mistakenly looked at last weeks code in NotePad.
The latest version claims to be 184KB but when I open it in NotePad I see nothing. If I open it in UltraEdit I see lots of zeros and no IDE is willing to open it.

Any suggestions for recovering the code or is it gone for good?



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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 21:31
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Scraggle

These PC problems of yours have been painful to watch. I just hope that the version you finally submitted was at least as good as the early versions I tried some time back. It was fun to play and looked good too.

Good luck!

After tonight you can have a few of these
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Van B
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 22:44
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Sounds like it's gone for good .

The version I downloaded played nicely, no slowdown and all the shaders look great. Now I just need to figure out how to play . I think we have similar tastes when it comes to design, my scoreboard for example is a lot like your gui, just seems to fit the retro electronics look to have wires and lights and digital number readouts .


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
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Scraggle
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Posted: 16th Feb 2007 23:19 Edited at: 17th Feb 2007 00:35
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If there is a plus side I have managed to post a game, it's just not as complete as I would have wanted.

This is what I submitted: Concentric V1.0

@VanB
There is a how to play thingy in the submission version. It is on screen during loading or you can call it up at any time form the options menu ... or look a couple of post up. It's up there somewhere.

@GG
It's a helluva lot more painful from where I am sitting. Thanks for all you help with shaders. It wouldn't be the same game without your input. I gave you a mention in the game ... thank you



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Tim Will Hack
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Posted: 17th Feb 2007 04:48
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Dang, Do you have any backups from a ways back? Every time I make about 5 mins worth of changes, I save as, and up the min version. My game right now is 001-161-017. I have every version change in code, (about 70mb worth) I lost something a long time ago and NEVER intend for that to happen ever ever again.

I also send it to myself in gmail as an attachment at the end of the night. If I leave the house, I make sure I have a copy on my zip drive that is in my pocket, and if i bring my laptop with me somewhere I leave a different flash drive at home with the backup, one in my pocket and one on the laptop. I'm crazy, but it works, someone can steal me and my girlfriend could at least continue the legacy.

Sorry to hear about your loss, I subscribed to your youtube and was really liking the progress.

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 17th Feb 2007 14:15
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Scraggle,

I'm probably being stupid, but I can't seem to download your game from the link. All I see is a page full of adverts, registration details, etc, plus a brief description of your file - but nothing to click on for the download itself. What am I missing?
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Scraggle
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Posted: 17th Feb 2007 21:38 Edited at: 17th Feb 2007 21:58
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It's not very straight forward is it?! ... sorry.

Maybe this will help:

Firstly Click here

Then:

Then:

Then:

Finally:




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Scraggle
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Posted: 18th Feb 2007 13:14 Edited at: 18th Feb 2007 13:14
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Here is an alternate link which should be a little easier Concentric V1.0



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Peter H
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Posted: 18th Feb 2007 15:08 Edited at: 18th Feb 2007 15:09
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just to warn you other people have to get an account to download from there (unless you sent it directly to their e-mail)

luckily i have an account so i'm downloading it now (i might not get a chance to play it today)

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
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Smilodon
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Posted: 18th Feb 2007 19:42
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Ok, my Notebook has on its 15,4" TFT only 1280x800 pixel.

For me is 'File scavenger' a nice tool to recover lost files.
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 18th Feb 2007 21:14
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Quote: "I still have another copy on another PC but it is a week old, so, those final tweaks are not going to happen."


Not for the nVidia Comp perhaps - but I hope you can include them for us all to enjoy.

A week's work may sound a lot - but in my experience, writing the code a second time, although a chore, doesn't usually take anywhere near as long because you can usually remember how you got round various difficulties. Not always true I know. Sometimes the code is cleaner second time round because you haven't got the intermediate errors to cleanup.

It would be a shame if you've lost the code for all those initial screens though - a lot of work seems to have gone into those.
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Scraggle
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Posted: 19th Feb 2007 09:14
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I didn't actually lose much functional code. Most of what has gone was just bug fixing, so it should be easy to re-do those because I remember how I fixed them. I didn't get round to adding volume control or allowing the user to change display mode. That would have happened in the final week if my PC didn't die.

I will complete Concentric as soon as I fix my PC. It might take a little longer than it would have done though because Mrs Scraggle isn't so willing to let me have computer time now that the compo is over and buying new bits to fix the PC might also take some persuasion with an upcoming wedding to pay for.

... it will happen.



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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 19th Feb 2007 13:25
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Quote: "I didn't actually lose much functional code. "


That's a relief.

Quote: "Mrs Scraggle isn't so willing to let me have computer time now that the compo is over and buying new bits to fix the PC might also take some persuasion"


I'm sure you can think of something to offer in return ...

Quote: "... it will happen"


Which?
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Scraggle
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 19:31 Edited at: 21st Feb 2007 19:48
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@Green Gandalf
It will all happen. I will persuade Mrs Scraggle that I need to buy the PC bits, I will buy them, I will fix the PC and I will finish off the bits of Concentric that didn't quite make it

@Ric
You wanted to know how I did the 'fluid effect' of the timer following a semi-circular path. I promised an answer, so here it is:

Fluid was the word you used but when you see how simple the effect is, you can see there really isn't anything fluid about it.

It is made up of three images, well, four but one of them is cloned and inverted. Here they are:

The background, it could be anything of course but this is similar to what I used:


The timer bar. I've show it blue here for clarity but I used a black one and then colourized it with a memblock routine. Also you will notice tht it is wider at the top and that the bottom half of the image is empty. The reason for both is explained below:


A 'Glass' overlay:


I made a 3D plain for each one and textured it with these images. Then overlayed them on top of each other like this:


It is then simply a case of rotating the Timer Bar plain around the Y axis to represent the level that the 'glass tube' is filled.

Of course, the astute observer will notice that this method would only work if the lower half of the 'Glass' image was solid. Because I am using two 'glass tubes' one above the other, the timer bars will rotate into each others window like this:


How do we get around that problem?

Actually it is quite simple. We rotate the Timer/Objective Bar plains 1 degree around the x axis. That way the lower half of the Timer Bar is beneath the background plain as is the upper half of the Objective Bar.
Then instead of rotating them, we can roll them. So only the coloured part of the image will be above the background. Whenver the coloured part is rotated beneath (or above depending on which one you are talking about) the centre line, it dips behind the background plain. The curved shape of the Overlay hides the cutoff so the average user will never realise how deceptively simple the effect is



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Van B
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 19:50
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Very neat effect - was wondering how you did that.


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
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Scraggle
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 20:15
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Splendid! It's not just for Ric's benefit then



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Peter H
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 21:15
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i too have wondered at similar effects before, very clever!

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
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Ric
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 21:44
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Aww, no complex fluid physics algorithms!! Very clever effect - I look forward to trying it out so long as it's not a patented idea! Thanks for the explanation.

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