Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

FPSC Classic Product Chat / FPS Creator 1.04 RC7

Author
Message
Candle_
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th May 2006
Location: kindergarten
Posted: 18th Dec 2006 20:33 Edited at: 18th Dec 2006 20:48
Looks awesome(see screenshot) install with no problems .
Using full shaders now and could never do that before and loading for game start is really fast now from the editor .

Attachments

Login to view attachments
Safak
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Dec 2005
Location:
Posted: 18th Dec 2006 20:50
Looks good here also, please check attachment.

Regards,

Safak

Attachments

Login to view attachments
mickeyb
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2006
Location:
Posted: 18th Dec 2006 20:56 Edited at: 18th Dec 2006 21:59
Installed RC7 not working i then followed xplosys advice working,
Quote: "Hard crash. This is the first update that caused any program issues for me, and I installed them all as they were available.
FPSC simply won't run. Removing and reinstalling everything. I'll continue this post when it's all back in.

EDIT:
Reinstalled Original FPSC: tested: everything seemes fine.
Installed V1.04_RC7: Same Crash.

Quote: "FPSC-MapEditor.exe has encountered a problem and needs to close.
We are sorry for the inconvenience."
Quote: "The application has encountered a problem and needs to close. Extra Debug Info: 0 0"

Removed MFC71.DLL: No change.

On a whim I checked for an updated DirectX and found DirectX SDK (October 2006)
Installed DirectX update and restarted: No more crash.
Restored previously removed MFC71.DLL: Still no crash.
"

then built test game and got Light mapping Warning
one or more objects had their quality reduced to fit texture see generated quality change.txt file for details.

Then i tested level can,t kill entities they then go and hide in the wall.
ps: for some reason i can only post a download

Attachments

Login to view attachments
Reality Forgotten
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Dec 2005
Location: Wichita Falls TX
Posted: 18th Dec 2006 21:11
here is a pic of it working correctly on my machine.

Regards,
RF

Attachments

Login to view attachments
Nickydude
Retired Moderator
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Nov 2006
Location: Look outside...
Posted: 18th Dec 2006 21:29
Rf, could you post the fpm to see if I get the same as you?


Benjamin A
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 31st Oct 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Posted: 18th Dec 2006 21:31
Well I've build my level with RC7......

Comparisment:

RC5 loading time 3 minutes.
RC7 loading time 7 minutes.

Both using same settings (soft lightmapping is on, no full light mapping). I don't think that can be called faster.....

But the main shock came when I arrived in the game..... all of the entities items are in the wrong place. Everywhere except for where I've placed them.

This bug is very easily to reproduce. I've placed 4 floors or so on top of each other, the players starts on floor one. I picked a few characters (I've picked some from Model Pack 4) and place them in the floors above you. When I started the game, the some of models I placed on the floors above, stand next to me.

This doesn't seem to happen with the original included entities, but with entities from other model packs and some of my own items also.

Second thing that happened was missing textures..... a number of models appeared untextured, while the texture are in the folders.

Third thing that happened was the player starting position. Don't ask me why, but the game didn't start int he room I did place the starting position arrow in.

The level I did test is quite large, so I really do suggest people use previously made levels that are big, with lot's of entities and custom made items to see what happens.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
xplosys
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Jan 2006
Playing: FPSC Multiplayer Games
Posted: 18th Dec 2006 21:57
@Benjamin

Are you using custom floors or FPSC ones. I did a quick 4 layer like you said and put Pack 4 characters on all the floors. I started out in the right place and no characters were out of place. I used some TGC and some custom entities and they all looked fine.

The light are softer and smoother across whatever they fall on. The shadows look good. My load times with all settings to max are good. The only issue I have at the moment is the color changing guns and carried objects, but Lee say's that he figured that one out, so........... I'm happy. Very happy! Thank you.

I'm sorry, my answers are limited. You must ask the right question.

Swhale aka The FPS Creator
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: My computer chair, no zip code sorry
Posted: 18th Dec 2006 21:58
Ive come across a cunundrum. Heres the deal. I have a lamp with a yellow light set near it so that it looks like its turned on. I have a script on the lamp to turn the light on and off. The light defaults as on. When I turn that light off, light from the room's white static bulb doesn't illuminate the lamp, and I am left with a bright room and a dark shaded lamp.

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it's larger than 600x120
xplosys
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Jan 2006
Playing: FPSC Multiplayer Games
Posted: 18th Dec 2006 22:08
Quote: "When I turn that light off, light from the room's white static bulb "


Sorry, I don't understand. If the room uses a yellow light to simulate the lamp, why is there a white static light?

If the lamp is a secondary light source for the room, then you may need to move the white light source or add another small one closer to the lamp. Don't forget, if you just upgraded the lighting in the engine, you will need to make some changes to your old lighting.

Best.

I'm sorry, my answers are limited. You must ask the right question.

Mickm
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Apr 2006
Location: Kingston, ON
Posted: 18th Dec 2006 22:10
Had to install the latest direct x like in the instructions but everything worked perfectly.

The new lights look awesome. I'm not sure if it was because of the new direct X but i did notice a little speed increase.

Keep up the good work TGC.

http://www.gamestack.org
http://onlinenotes.gamestack.org
http://onlinebookmarks.gamestack.org
uman
Retired Moderator
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 18th Dec 2006 22:19
Using RC7 with my actual game levels I encounter all kinds of problems.

I am getting much reduced frame rates. With difficulty to move around.Had to remove some Characters attached to paths as their Physics get messed up and they get stuck and cause serious slowdowns. The more lights I add and only in small numbers the slower it gets. Even the player can get stuck when getting near a light placement with low fps and bad Physics acusing collison problems.

On game test run compile the editor says its loading all entities even those which have not existed in the level which was boken up into parts many months ago in order to try and gain fps and the majority of entity types are no longer actually used in the level.

Saving the levels causes FPSC to crash and Task manager having to be called to kill it of before exit is possible.

Will try another install I guess or try removing all Characters altogether and wait for Dark AI - who knows.




"I am and forever will be your friend"
Benjamin A
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 31st Oct 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Posted: 18th Dec 2006 22:22
Only used prefabs in my last test example. I've placed 2 prefabs levels on top of each other, so you get 2 floors. Simply placed all of the model pack 4 on the top floor and the player starting position on the lower floor. The player cannot reach the top floor and the characters cannot reach the lower floor.

When testing the level some of the characters do end up on the lower floor from the start, it's very odd.

With my custom made level it was even worse, lot's of entities in the wrong places.

I've also figured out what causes the larger build times / loading level times. It's the creation of textures. The more different segments you use the longer it takes. With the level which I've been using to test about every RC with, it takes about 4 minutes to create textures.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
Swhale aka The FPS Creator
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: My computer chair, no zip code sorry
Posted: 18th Dec 2006 22:23
@xplosys

I had a white static light from a cieling light, and a yellow lamp light.

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it's larger than 600x120
Nickydude
Retired Moderator
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Nov 2006
Location: Look outside...
Posted: 18th Dec 2006 22:31
BenjamineA, I tried what you've sugessted and the characters seemed to be in the right place, but I've noticed another oddity, transparent characters! See attached.


Attachments

Login to view attachments
xplosys
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Jan 2006
Playing: FPSC Multiplayer Games
Posted: 18th Dec 2006 22:33
In my case, I am using a fresh install, just this morning, of everything including FPSC, all the model packs, and V1.04_RC7. Obviously, pre-existing content and levels have issues which I will not see. Luckily, I am still in the paper stages of my game and have not started to build my levels. (kind of scared to start because I keep waiting for the next update, and it looks like with good reason)

That being said, aside from the weapon color issue, everything I have thrown at it so far has worked well and produced both good load times and FPS. Time will tell if Lee can correct issues with pre-existing content and levels. Let's hope so.

I'm sorry, my answers are limited. You must ask the right question.

Nickydude
Retired Moderator
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Nov 2006
Location: Look outside...
Posted: 18th Dec 2006 22:47 Edited at: 18th Dec 2006 22:50
Anyone else having a problem changing the background music and skybox from the "File -> Build Game -> Level Settings : Edit Global Script"? No matter what I do I can't change them, the skybox is stuck on the War backdrop which I added a while ago, in previous release and the music is stuck on my NightCrawl.

Can anyone confirm this and if you changed them how!

when I 'Preview' the changes have been made but testing the game puts it right back again.


Benjamin A
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 31st Oct 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Posted: 18th Dec 2006 22:50 Edited at: 18th Dec 2006 22:51
@ xplosys, lucky you I didn't have much problems with the previous builds, but this one....

This is a picture from my level. I'm standing in front of a locked door, the text is still appearing. but the door is gone and instead of the door there's a chair. Actually all of doors have been replaced with chairs...... And that's only one of the problems I'm getting. For some reason the engine is swapping entites around. Instead of boxes, I'm getting guns.... instead of guns I'm getting boxes.

When building the same level with RC5 I've got no problems at all, haven't tried RC6, didn't get around doing that before RC7 was out.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.

Attachments

Login to view attachments
Caesar Green
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Dec 2006
Location:
Posted: 18th Dec 2006 23:38
Hello,

RC7 looks like a great deal. I plan on reinstalling FPSC from V1 and then upgrade...can I just install RC7 after I install the program (V1)? Or do I need to install each incremental patch?

I don't think I have them all...

Thanks!
K
Cellbloc Studios
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Mar 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posted: 18th Dec 2006 23:51 Edited at: 18th Dec 2006 23:53
What happens when the door opens?

Your mod has been erased by a signature
Gam3r
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Mar 2006
Location:
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 00:13
@Caeser Green

You can just install any model packs first (if any) then you only need to put in the latest update it includes all changed files in the history for FPSC updates.

The Beta Cell Website 3% http://tbc.redlime.org
Wanna help me make an all new FPSCreator Resource website?
Submit your media for public use here! http://fpsc.redlime.org
Benjamin A
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 31st Oct 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 00:19 Edited at: 19th Dec 2006 00:24
It's the fresh install that got me thinking and by now I've figured out the solution to my problem.

I've opened the fpm made with RC5 (and before) and saved it with RC7. Build the level with RC7 and now everything is back in it's place. I'm still getting an occasional character dropping through the floor as mentioned before.

So, if you've got old levels, it's wise to save them with RC7 before building/testing

By having found the solution to I've been able to test the full level by now. I can't say I'm happy at all.

1. Even though the lights look great, the loading time of larger levels increased with more then 100% (due to the textures that are being build). You will not notice this so much with small levels, but with larger levels using lot's of different segments and textures, it's starting to show. A loading time of 7 minutes compared to 3 minutes before isn't really acceptable for me.

2. A major drop in framerate. Again with smaller levels you will not notice this, but with larger levels, I've experienced a drop of 6-10fps and even more at times. With RC2 the game runs 28-32fps. With RC5 the game runs from 24-32fps. With RC7 the game runs 11-25fps. With every build were loosing speed instead of gaining and this isn't only due to the AI anymore.

I'm not like Uman trusting that DarkAI will bring back good framerate, since I'm not 100% sure it's the AI only. It's the complete scripting system causing a major drop in framerate. You can take out every enemy, but have other scripts using zones, keys and so on and still the framerate compared to older versions has dropped.

Since version 1 we've been loosing a bit of speed with about every update and by now it seems they're starting to add up and take their toll.

I've also tested my most optimized level ever (from Commander Josh). It was created originally with V1 and was created for maximum speed and yet havinbg enough action going on in the level. That one has always ran over 29fps in every build and 31fps with V1. With RC7 the game drops to 24fps on several occasions. Still runs pretty well, but there's a loss of 5fps compared to other builds and a loss of 7fps compared to V1.

A drop of 7fps doesn't matter much if we're talking about framerates over 50, but we're talking about 31fps at max and then 7 less is lot less.

Quote: "The task is to create a 1 level game in FPS Creator.

The level should be no larger than 15 x 15 x 5 grid units in size (that's 15 units square by 5 units in height). Into this relatively small space you need to cram as much gaming action as possible."


The way we're going now there's not going to be much action left if the game is build with the newer builds, since we need to take out a lot of entities to get the game even to run at a decent speed. I'm really considering returning to V1 by now for my entry. At least I'm going to get decent gameplay with it, but I will suffer in other areas.

I feel sorry for some of the first timers entering. Some of the stuff I've seen looks awesome, but they're cramming so much stuff into the game that it won't even run in the end. At least we're all facing the same problems, that somewhat of a comfort.

Well, I'm off to uninstall RC7, going back to a previous build, still got to try RC6. But with the loss of speed and the increased loading times, I'm going to wait for the next RC instead of aggrivating myself waiting ages for a level to build or test.

EDIT: Some of you really need to start testing completed levels with these release candidates! A lot of you test small empty levels and start shouting the upgrade is working great. You don't test an upgrade that way. I'm glad at least some of you (like Uman & FredP & some others) are testing the upgrades to a fuller extend, we all need to do so. Throw everything you can think of against the release candidate and then tell us how it stood up against that. Don't just test it with an empty room or a few empty rooms. Test it with a complete level, several floors high, using stairs, doors, scripts, enemies, pickups, and so on. Use full levels, not these empty ones. Any build will run well with those.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
Thraxas
Retired Moderator
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Feb 2006
Location: The Avenging Axe, Turai
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 00:49 Edited at: 19th Dec 2006 00:53
I'm experiencing the enemy characters moving through the walls problem (like mickeyb)...

I'm also getting slow down in areas of my levels where before I wasn't getting any...

I even rebuilt one of my levels from scratch thinking this might help but the enemies still move through walls like they weren't there and the level still slows down in the same places...it's back to RC6 for me, for now...

'Dawn of the Fallen Angel' coming soon(ish)...
Silent Thunder
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Feb 2006
Location: The Ship
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 01:15
Quote: "A tip just in. A user who experienced the freeze, reinstalled the upgrade fully (DO NOT CHOOSE REPAIR), and the freeze vanished"


huh? so are we supposed to choose repair? If not, what?


Get my Mega Segment Pack for free, be one of the first 5 to post
Candle_
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th May 2006
Location: kindergarten
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 01:19 Edited at: 19th Dec 2006 01:21
Nickydude go to the
Quote: "Crogram Files\The Game Creators\FPS Creator\Files\languagebank\english\gamebank\mygame"
folder and open the setuplevel.fpi and change it there and save it.

Candle_
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th May 2006
Location: kindergarten
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 01:22
Quote: "huh? so are we supposed to choose repair? If not, what?"

Choose Uninstll then install it.

Nickydude
Retired Moderator
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Nov 2006
Location: Look outside...
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 01:33
@ Candle_: But can you change it from within FPSC, or is it just me?


Thraxas
Retired Moderator
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Feb 2006
Location: The Avenging Axe, Turai
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 01:46 Edited at: 19th Dec 2006 01:48
Quote: "But can you change it from within FPSC, or is it just me?
"


I can but I have had a similar problem before... I think I fixed it by going to C:\ program Files\The Game Creators\FPS Creator\Files\languagebank\english\gamebank\mygame and deleting "setuplevel.fpid"... backup first in case I'm wrong but I'm sure that's what I did

'Dawn of the Fallen Angel' coming soon(ish)...
Nickydude
Retired Moderator
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Nov 2006
Location: Look outside...
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 01:56 Edited at: 19th Dec 2006 01:57
For some reason the lighting levels in my build of a game are different from testing it.

Here's the test from inside FPSC:


And here's from the build of the same game:


I have Full Light Mapping and Shaders turned on in both the preferences and Global Build Menu Script. Also, flickering dynamic lighting that works perfectly in the test, don't flicker in the build, I do have Dynamic Lighting turned on in both.


Candle_
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th May 2006
Location: kindergarten
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 02:00
I don't use that editor, I use notepad2 to do all my editing.

Jon Fletcher
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th May 2005
Location: Taunton, UK
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 03:26 Edited at: 19th Dec 2006 04:08
Im going to update later tommorow and read some more user opinions

but DarkLights support is magnificent, some screens so far look brilliant, great work Lee

edit:

ah what the heck, its late but i really wanted to test it, at first i had some slight problems, just crash upon load of the program, but was immediately resolved after installing the latest directx9.0c update.

everything looks great, lightmapping works really nice, however like another member, i am also getting some weird colours, in this room i have a yellow light, and dead in the middle, the colour would switch to a blue, elswhere, it would maintain its colour, this also happened on a plain white light:



you can also notice a blueish 'blotch' on the ceiling, the blue may be the opposite RGB of the light colour im using, i'll have to check

but overall, the quality increase of lightmaps is so much better, cheers!


MK83
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jun 2006
Location: Greeneville, TN
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 04:37
I did'nt crash this time, but what is causing this?


http://www.mk83productions.com http://www.freewebs.com/mk83

Attachments

Login to view attachments
Candle_
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th May 2006
Location: kindergarten
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 05:39
Check to see if the fog is on MK83..
I had some thing like that when the fog was on.

Airslide
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Oct 2004
Location: California
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 05:46
Sweet gun jon

Oh, I got to play with shaders for the first time - it runs fine unless you get too close to an enemy, which happens to be trasparent The fact I can run it that way without having everything at about 5 fps is a major improvement.

Mr Makealotofsmoke
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Dec 2006
Location: BillTown (Well Aust)
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 12:11 Edited at: 19th Dec 2006 15:52
ok i get another problem
i made a multiplayer map..ok
then i updated to RC7
i tested my map to c if it would work...IT FINALLY DID!! NO ERRORS!!
but then i go to creat map and it suddenly turns to single player...so i go to preferences then click multiplayer..go back to build game..single again. arena settings greyed out

mod note:
I edited your post.No swearing.

If I Want It, I Want It

uman
Retired Moderator
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 13:09 Edited at: 19th Dec 2006 13:38
Benjamin A,

I have basically the same findings as you. Characters fell buried in or falling through floors and all the other issues you have. The AI drain and other issues being seen in this one just compound the other issues further.

Ceratinly its well known and Lee knows that the larger and more complex a level the more issues and instability that show up - so power users if you like will have the most problems. My fps is down to about 11fps in much of my levels and its almost impossible to move around. You cannot test fully engine development in simple levels and find all issues crop up. The more content and wider ranging user number feedback the better the test of the develpomment and the results.

You are correct in you statement regarding fps drop off and max fps limits of course 33fps is too low a cap for an engine to start with though higher upward fps start limits do not guarantee success if the engine is inefficient. FPS would still drop off very quickly when adding content. Also correct with regard to the statement reagrding testing. Testing can only be successully done on serious level bulids that put the engine under pressure if you want all the problems to show up. Updates are best realeased when known to be stable after extensive internal testing. But these are long standing debate issues and decsions have already been made by the developers as how to proceed. The debate over those things now over. They have been done to death here at the forums between users via suggestions and requests previously and its down to TGC to sort the current probs in the light of TGC developer decisions as to how they proceed with FPSC development.

I did not mean I was happy to wait for DarkAI as such as being a complete fix - what I meant specifically was by the time thats out then I would hope that the current problems would be sorted and FPSC stable again so that we could then hopefully gain the extra benefit of DarkAI and be able to access it with a level playing field. I mean simply I cant use this version as is.

I agree that its not only the AI is causing problems now - its a mess so this current version seems to have numerous issues affecting many areas of the program. Typically what happens in such instances making things worse across the board due to knock on affects of errors and making it difficult to track down and isolate exact root causes.

I am in complete agreement with your statements and have the same findings. I have always had suppoted and stated my support for these points as I have consistently made it known to all. Thats why I have always had the same complicted levels to use as a test base apart from the fact that my dev has been on hold due to the fact that FPSC does not handle those complex levels with enough efficiency so I cannot proceed they also serve as a stable platform for testing updates in a consistent testing environment. I dont have to go very far in my levels in order to test the stability and efficiency of FPSC updates. It falls over very quickly if it is not a happy chappy. Its not happy at the moment.

I dont think Lee would contemplate building DarkAI onto FPSC in its current condition - that would be and impossible step to consider.




"I am and forever will be your friend"
LeeBamber
TGC Lead Developer
24
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Jan 2000
Location: England
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 13:29 Edited at: 19th Dec 2006 14:04
@uman - DarkAI (and FPSC AI drain aside), what are your top three 'mess' issues of FPSC you refer? Maybe other users have the same problems, and together we can tackle them.

@MrMakealotofsmoke - try using the NEW ARENA item from the FILE menu and making a small arena then going to BUILD GAME. Arena tab should not be greyed out then.

@BenjaminA - if you believe your speed-loss is not the result of the AI drain, perhaps you would like to send me your level (with media) for some performance tests? I will then be able to get an idea what large levels do to cause the step-down in framerate.

Here is a new screenshot as I work through RC8, with a focus on resolving the last few DarkLIGHTS tech issues (attached).

"Small, smart, and running around the legs of dinosaurs to find enough food to survive, bedroom programmers aren't extinct after all "

Attachments

Login to view attachments
Credz_42
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Nov 2006
Location: in front of the comp
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 14:07
now downloading
Lon
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Feb 2004
Location: Big Ass Castle
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 14:10
See screenshot. First of all, the lighting looks wonderful. Second, that enemy on the floor, I killed him with a physics object which is now working. Third, I can confirm that dynamic lighting reflecting off of dynamic objects such as enemies, the weapon your holding, etc doesn't represent the actual light color. I was getting blue and greens refecting off of my weapon and the enemies, where it should have been white, yellow and red respectively. All in all I think other than this, were there.

Lon

[url=http://webpages.charter.net/lflicking/]

Attachments

Login to view attachments
LeeBamber
TGC Lead Developer
24
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Jan 2000
Location: England
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 14:17
Regarding the 'weird colour' light issue, this has been fixed for RC8.

"Small, smart, and running around the legs of dinosaurs to find enough food to survive, bedroom programmers aren't extinct after all "
Benjamin A
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 31st Oct 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 14:20 Edited at: 19th Dec 2006 14:21
Quote: "@BenjaminA - if you believe your speed-loss is not the result of the AI drain, perhaps you would like to send me your level (with media) for some performance tests? I will then be able to get an idea what large levels do to cause the step-down in framerate."


I already did a while ago.... it's the one with the fires.

How about increased the loading times, can that be solved? Going from 3 to 7 minutes isn't what I would call an improvement.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
uman
Retired Moderator
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 14:33 Edited at: 19th Dec 2006 15:02
Hi Lee,

Major Issues only that I have seen as I dont worry at all about glitches or non show stoppers as I know you are working to fix all those and discounting the AI drain :

Basically I cant say what the causes are additionally to the AI drain as it obviously is adding to the difficulties the engine is having.

As Ben has also discovered in using complex levels where the burden is greatest then there seems to be an accumalation of things adding to slowdown speeds which knock on to everything else so unknown errors are seriously affecting gameplay and all entities behavious unduely. Obviously those unkown issues are impacting on everything unduely and a fair and accurate accessment of the update is therefore difficult and misleading.

Overall discounting the AI drain there is still an additonal major fps loss over previous Updates so I am left with fps in many places of 11fps - more or less in other places fluctuating greatly. Fps loss being unfairly added to while Characters are active.

The result is that due to slow fps speeds both player and characters behaviour is badly affected. Physics and collision is badly affected. Some Characters start buried in the floor while their physics are on and if off they dissapear from the level altogether apparently having floated off somewhere. Characters on paths get stuck and cant move and that seriously affects the engine performance further while thats the case as I presume the math gets stuck in a never ending circle.

In placing a samll number of lights the fps drops off quickly as they are added and each one slows the game speeds more and very guickly so before more than a dozen are in fps speeds are so low its difficult for the player to walk efficiently any longer and his collison is unstable. Numerous time when appraoching a single tile that carries a light the player has become stuck as his collision becomes unstable and its not possible to move at all. Using the crouch and backwards key is necessary to reverse out of the situation with forward movement being blocked. Effectively you cant cross the area where light is placed.

I have not seen any world build errors but there are numerous and varying lighting glitches chnaging on each compile as mentioned by others which I have no concern of unles they are contributory factors to the more serious speed loss issues.

Speed, Collision and Physics are the only seriously affected issues I concern myself with.

It would seem to me perhaps incorectly that Unkown errors If thats what they can be described as and the resultant math that is having to be done by the engine at test run time is so great that it is resulting in serious speed loss impacting on physics and collision impacting on characters and player in the way described above.

I have two error messages on compile and dont know if they have a bearing or not :

1. Object : 70000, 1 or more limbs do not contain vertex normals data. Defaulting to flat shading for these limbs

2. 1 or more objects have their quality reduced to fit on the texture, see the generated "quality change.text" file for details

These error meesages call up a user OK box needing use of the retun key before compile proceeds but do not stop the compile process of course. Can you make this box skip without needing user intervention or otherwise during a large compile if one went off to sleep and came back then the compile process would have been on hold and not completed while awaiting user intervention.

Hope that helps.

EDIT : More :

Hi Lee,

I have done some more testing and can Confirm that all of the speed problems I am having are Character related so it seems. Removing Characters on paths helps the most as they are obvioiusly the biggest drain. Removing all Characters from a level boost the fps back to pre RC7 levels so obviously Characters and the new lighting update are having a serious impact when together.

A game without characters is not nuch help of course so I dont know how there impact could be reduced or why the new lighting system increases their impact so greatly unless its just a mmater of the engine not being efficient enough to run both at once at least in my large complex levels, which by the way I would not consider as being overly complex but less so than required by any modern game. I have still much to add as they are quite sparsely populated by detail.

Personally I am happy to wait for DarkAI and see if that removes the AI burden so you can ignore me but not sure how others will manage in the mean time - I have waited long enough so can wait longer before picking up my own development again.

I am sure you have many other things to concentrate on.

Thank you for you concern though - I look forward to DarkAI hopefully next year.

I have the same full bright issue on some entities though not on weapons from weapon pack 5.



"I am and forever will be your friend"
LeeBamber
TGC Lead Developer
24
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Jan 2000
Location: England
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 15:09
@BenjaminA - for whatever reason I cannot find your fire level. Can you send it to be again please (lee@thegamecreators.com) if you have time.

@uman - thanks for your report. Anything that is directly or indirectly caused by speed-loss, and speed-loss itself I will tackle as part of the DarkAI overhaul so don't worry too much about speed inside large levels (you can thrash me if its still slow after DarkAI). If you send me one of your levels (again), which I can use as a testbed, I will see what I can do about keeping it at 30(60?) during the DarkAI work. Could you send me a small level showing this 'player stuck in light' issue, I have never seen this. The dynamic light in final EXE bug has been fixed for RC8 If those error/warnings where shown in RC7 during lightmapping, then these have been disabled (let me know if RC8 shows them still). Speed/Collision/Physics are very much intertwined, so my prediction is that when speed is increased all your major gripes will disappear. If you find anything not related this trinity, let me know

"Small, smart, and running around the legs of dinosaurs to find enough food to survive, bedroom programmers aren't extinct after all "
KeithC
Senior Moderator
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location: Michigan
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 15:20
Is there anything that can be done to address the file-size issue, Lee?

uman
Retired Moderator
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 15:29
Hi Lee,

Thank you,

Yes personally I am happy to wait for DarkAI in prfererence anyway to developing my own which would seem to be a waste of time and yours if you were to look at AI now. That would not make much sense would it.

I can see if you can send you a level again which effectively shows the AI drain.

Actually the getting stuck in light is not relative if fps is higher - its just caused by a momentary big drop off in fps and is a glitch of that much as the player or other character can get stuck or fall out of FPSC levels occasionally. It can be seen to happen in areas of high Serious Lagg Issue especially so for instance in such areas the player can get caught on the edge of a tile or entity - he just gets stuck in a polygon and can useually get out unless the fps is so bad he cant move at all which has been known to happen in areas of SL issue when users have encountered 0 fps. Its just a glitch I am sure and most users will rarely encounter it.

Thanks again for all you do and I look forward very much to DarkAI integration - I am sure indeed I will be very happy. More so than anyone will know.



"I am and forever will be your friend"
Nickydude
Retired Moderator
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Nov 2006
Location: Look outside...
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 16:12
Quote: "Numerous time when appraoching a single tile that carries a light the player has become stuck as his collision becomes unstable and its not possible to move at all. Using the crouch and backwards key is necessary to reverse out of the situation with forward movement being blocked. Effectively you cant cross the area where light is placed."


I also get this occasionally, but not always in the same place so I can't repeat it. This happened a couple of revisions back so it's not new to this one.


KeithC
Senior Moderator
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location: Michigan
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 19:21
I appreciate all the updates and attention that FPSC is getting from everyone at TGC over the last few months; it's been quite invigorating.

Therefore, I'm afraid I'm going to have to fire Lee and the rest of the guys at TGC; until the Holidays are over. Take a break guys.

-Keith

Nickydude
Retired Moderator
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Nov 2006
Location: Look outside...
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 19:33
Just let him squeeze RC8 out and then I'm sure they've all earned a half a shandy


MR elevetor
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Sep 2005
Location: you wouldn\'t belive me if I told you
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 20:25
I cant get it to work....And I´ve directX 9.something C
and I think thats the newest..but my fpsc crashes all the time... and this is not good

I dont want you to die....I just dont want you to live anymore....BTW: I´ve xbox 360 and probably dont nyah nyah nyaah!!!
Mickm
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Apr 2006
Location: Kingston, ON
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 20:32
Quote: "I cant get it to work....And I´ve directX 9.something C"


Microsoft released some more stuff with Direct X in december. So if you updated to Direct X 9 before december, goto the Microsoft website and download the Direct X setup and run it.

http://www.gamestack.org
http://onlinenotes.gamestack.org
http://onlinebookmarks.gamestack.org
Jikito
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Feb 2006
Location:
Posted: 19th Dec 2006 20:33
what i noticed in differance between r6 and r7.

In RC7, framrates dropped to around 6fps alot of the time.
test compile took near 7 minutes longer.
Player and Npc's kept falling through the geometry.
ok this is an odd one but it would seem that a vertex on some of the segment models would be misplaced and suddenly i stretched looking like it would spread across the zone.

I hadnt tested the lights themselves yet, I had planned to light the zone after completing it.

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-10-09 01:36:44
Your offset time is: 2024-10-09 01:36:44