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3 Dimensional Chat / boning support

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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 5th May 2003 09:32
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I made a character in 3ds max 5 it was a long and hard process, I finished it finally only to find that exporting the model out of 3ds max to a 3ds file then to .x file, the bones animate fine, but the actual character doesn't "respond" to the bones(I skinned it in 3ds max and it works fine as a .max file). how do you export so that it works the way you want?
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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 5th May 2003 15:21
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Depends what version of db you're using

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th May 2003 22:15
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hehee... please use the term rigging
that aside, don't export straight to 3DS it is a long an ardous affair - you have to make sure everything is setup for heirachy mode.
there is a tutorial in the help about howto do it though.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 5th May 2003 22:50
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Yes quite right, saying "can someone bone this model for me" is false advertising, and I was rather dissapointed to find you were talkin' computers animation

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 6th May 2003 04:26
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I'm using DB but that doesn't matter.

Quote: "Yes quite right, saying "can someone bone this model for me" is false advertising, and I was rather dissapointed to find you were talkin' computers animation"


I didn't get what you meant sorry(If you thought I wanted someone to "bone" my character-I didn't).

lol , R. Vegeta, "setup for heirachy mode", I'll look that up when I get home(at school right now). thanks. In case I can't find it can you tell where it is.

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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 6th May 2003 12:58
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*lol* 'twas a 'lil joke, woulda though someone with a handle like toiletfreak woulda got it...

Anyhow:

We all use DB but the question is which version, because though DB1.13/enhanced can be made to playback a bone-based animation, it has no native commands to make it simple, unlike DBpro.

I'm not sure excactly what your problem is, but if it's just the export settings in max you need to know, that will depend on which exporter you're using.

Please post all relevant info

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th May 2003 18:46
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lmao... dan need a girlie who can satisfy him (or three) he's about ready to poke ripe melons

and trust me if you don't rig(bone hehee) your character properly then you can't setup a hieracy and ALL IS DOOMED AND LOST! (ahem, sorry Star Wars marathon on Cinemax)
just look through the tutorials you should see a good one on rigging your model properly for the task of exporting.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Aribtrage
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Posted: 6th May 2003 21:08
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The 3ds format is old and doesn't support bones. There are several .x exporters for 3dsMax ( Pandasoft do one, Microsoft do one ) and that's the correct way to export. Haven't tried with the DirectX 9 exporter, but since DBPro was written for DX8, that's probably the one to use if you can still find it. It came with the DirectX 8 SDK.

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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 7th May 2003 05:58
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I got the two exporters you mentioned above, but 3ds max doesn't load them, I took a look at the plugin manager and it said (for the panda exporter) "deferred". R. vegeta(or anyone else who can export with bones) can you convert for me if I sent it to you through e-mail. I'm pretty sure I rigged the character correctly(but it's rigged by a amateur-so it's a bad job).

note: I took out the IK-chains because they had too many "restrictions".

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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 7th May 2003 06:00
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Quote: "but it's rigged by a amateur"


the ameteur is me by the way. lol

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 7th May 2003 06:32
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The Panda plugin should be deffered that meens it is installed correctly. You should find it on your export file type list (not the save as list) and it is entitled "Panda ...." not "X" or "Direct X"... took me a few attempts to figure that out too - twice infact because I forgot the second time I went to use it...

Pneumatic Dryll
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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 7th May 2003 09:47
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I now how to export normally(to 3ds anyway) but I can't get the panda dx exporter plugin(s) to work. All I did was download the panda plugin file (pandaDXEporter.dle -->I think thats the file name-not sure) and put it into the plugins folder in 3ds max. Thats how I "install" my plugins, it worked for all other plugins I downloaded except panda...I also get some annoying message when I load 3ds max saying can't load panda. If you know how please tell, it would solve alot of problems.

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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 7th May 2003 09:50
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nice avatar PneumaticDryll

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Jonny_S
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Posted: 8th May 2003 01:00
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I hate trying to bone models, the monitor always gets in the way, and if I go in the back I get electricuted sorry I had to crack a joke

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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 8th May 2003 04:25
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So do I, I think I'll make a short movie so that I know what 3dsmax is capable of and what it's limitations are. It'll do me good since I'm still in the learning stage of modelling in 3ds max. Good thing about 3ds max is that is has a good renderer. I'm guessing that it'll take a long time though.

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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 8th May 2003 12:13
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mmmmmm melons

Anyhow, boning models is all about getting past the bouncers...

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
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indi
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Posted: 8th May 2003 13:04
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hehe or becoming a fashion photographer or the boyfriend to a make up artist and doing the naughty

http://www.lunarpixel.com

http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 8th May 2003 13:25
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*lol*

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th May 2003 13:47
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ToiletFreak did you read the tutorials on rigging your character?
because you have to follow those steps TO THE LETTER to be able to export 3DS - you can't simply attach the modifier, you have to take the long route i'm afraid.
Remember that 3DS - DO NOT USE MESH DEFORMATION, you will HAVE to setup and export as linked objects.

you want to see a simple way of what i mean, make 2 cubes ... use the chain w/box icon and click from the original box to the second box.
now set the base keyframe - and then move one of the boxes like rotate it, then set the keyframe.

now export and you'll notice that 3DS now has that animation.
how the effect of the bone animation is no different, all you have to do is setup the exclusive/inexclusive envelopes for affecting the limbs in the same way - and you must make sure you chain link in the hierachy order of the bones (because else they'll all appear on the spot when exportered)
now you'll notice they'll export with the animation properly

and don't worry about having the animation the right amount of keyframes, just make sure you have the right distance of keyframes for the animation to work (say you have 12 keyframes, place them only 1 frame apart with the exception of the subtle movement keyframes ... this is because keyframes are not only space intensive, but moreover they're automatically interpolled within DirectX and you can find that for some reason you're actually exporting several thousand frames even though you only have 30frames lasting 1second (its weird but its how max works)

you can setup the interpol ingame if you need to

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 9th May 2003 04:26
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OK, I'm not sure If I get it, but I'll give it a shot, and yes it's true, I didn't complete the rigging tut's.

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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 9th May 2003 07:00
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wait, I remember doing the rigging tut's just not the other ones after it(like the lighting and texture baking).lol, I think I just forgot about the Hierarchy linking bit, but I do remember doing it and I also remember me spending too long on it, and getting back pains so I stopped. So I didn't really absorb it in fully, and eventually forgot about it. THanks R. Vegeta, you helped me out the most on the Db Forums...

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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 9th May 2003 08:56
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One more pointless question, How long does it take you to

1)make the wireframe of a character(human)
2)texture it
3)Add in the bones
4)Skin it
5)Rig it(includes boning and skinning)
6)Animation(using Auto key)
7)Export and convert to a .x file.

For one character it took me about a total of 78hours working time(But I was also looking at tut's). I still have to do #7 though. oooooooooooooooooohhhhh just wait, I'll get there. lolo

It isn't me thats good it's the program I'm using thats good...
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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 9th May 2003 12:00
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Of course it depends on what you're building but it's been taking me an average of 4-6 hours per character to model/uvmap/texture and then perhaps about another 20 mins per character to rig in milkshape but the animations themselves vary so much depending on the character...
Also my characters have a maximum of 600 polys so it's quite a lot simpler than for detailed models. Most of my modeling time is spent working out how best to use less than 600 polys
I'm thinking about uvmapping almost the whole time I'm modelling 'cos I place a rough planar texture on my model as soon as it's roughly in shape, and I don't finish modelling until I've already uvmapped the object. Like I wont flatten the ears against the head if I know I'm just going to be stretching them out again for the uvmapping etc...

Textures with a graphics tablet and photoshop it don't take long, but they are cartoony textures...
Exporting takes less than .5 second

On other projects I've spend up to a week on modelling alone, it all depends on the detail

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 9th May 2003 15:43
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depends what i'm working on it for... most of my professional work takes around,
1-2hrs development
2-3hrs Rigging (can take upto 4 if i'm doing it properly)
20-30mins playing about and adapting the mesh for animation making sure its worth skinning
1hr skinning (hand over to someone else to texture whilst i work on the animation)
Animation heavily depends on the movement, difficulty, etc..

i mean for earth&beyond i had a good few motion capture routines to choose from, so all i had to do was edit the capture to the bones didn't take long at all - whereas for my current personal project i don't have a motion capture studio at home (and personally i prefer to do it without)
however so far 4animations have taken me around 7hrs
animation is really a very fickle thing when it comes to time, getting things just right and such.

exporting is usually to a specific format, but if i exported to DirectX i already know all the qwirks of the exporter - material setups etc... so only takes a few secs to setup and press export.

all in all it can take me anywhere from 5-6hrs to complete a model to a week depending on complexity and equippment at my disposal.
but then everyone works at different speeds.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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