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3 Dimensional Chat / want to try modelling

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sniper_uk
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Posted: 20th Mar 2007 23:00
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hi,
i would like to try and have a go at modelling what software would be best and the easiest to work with considering i have no programming experience
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Venge
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Posted: 20th Mar 2007 23:08 Edited at: 20th Mar 2007 23:08
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blender.
most people would say milkshake because it's easier to learn, but blender is free.

Requirements for blender:
must know how to read

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sniper_uk
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Posted: 20th Mar 2007 23:14
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thanks venge,
is there a link where i can download blender
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sniper_uk
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Posted: 20th Mar 2007 23:18 Edited at: 20th Mar 2007 23:19
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it's ok venge found it but will anything i make be compatible with fpsc
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Chris Franklin_
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Posted: 20th Mar 2007 23:19
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blender.org

llllRgt
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DB newbie
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Posted: 20th Mar 2007 23:22
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blender is very powerful it is free but it has alot of buttons and can be complicated at times. i redomend anim8or

http://www.anim8or.com/


Come see the WIP!

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sniper_uk
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Posted: 20th Mar 2007 23:47
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downloaded both thanks guys will anything i make be compatible with fpsc though
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Venge
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Posted: 20th Mar 2007 23:57
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yea it exports to .x, if that's what you mean.

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sniper_uk
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 00:06
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thanks guys all i need to do now is work out how to use them lol looks like some heavy reading sessions
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Venge
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 00:09
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patience, grasshopper

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sniper_uk
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 00:19
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but master when shall i stop lol
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DB newbie
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 00:37
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Quote: "thanks guys all i need to do now is work out how to use them lol looks like some heavy reading sessions"


for anim8or go to this site. http://www.mp3d.info/

it has video tutroials with sound on how to use anim8or...it is asome.


Come see the WIP!

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zircher
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 02:21
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Side note, while Blender has it fans, the learning curve is a little steep. If it's not your cup of tea, check out these alternatives...

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=25468&b=3
--
TAZ

"My goal is to replace my soul with coffee and become immortal." -- Wally
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sniper_uk
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 09:19
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much appreciated guys will do
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Kieran
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 11:18
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Blender, the most awesome modeller when you learn how to use it

http://blender.org has a ton of good tutorials on their website, plus if you goole some websites you will find tutorials I am getting quite far in blender too

also i have tried many other modellers and came back to blender for these reasons.

1) the interface is brilliant
2) there are hotkeys as well as buttons
3) buttons are arranged nicely and sorted into categories
4) it is powerful!
5) very easy to use once you follow a few tutorials

and theres more that i forgot

im not saying anim8or isn't good but i tried it and hated it, not a vary nice modeller to me. By the way i did spend alot of time in these other modellers i tried that were recommended, but for some reason after all those hours i still didn't even partly enjoy it compared to blender

but its up to you, pick what you want but i recommend blender.


RPG Engine Work in progress!
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Van B
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 11:23 Edited at: 21st Mar 2007 11:25
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Spend some money on Milkshape, it's a lot easier to learn than Blender and as an animator and exporter to DBPro it's very good.

Come on Kieran... Brilliant interface, buttons nicely arranged?


Your joking right?


This is milkshape:


For someone trying to learn the basics, well Blender is something I'd never suggest.


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
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Kieran
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 11:26
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lol so Van B opens up blender and opens various different button windows.... typical to make it look bad . Van B im not saying milkshape is bad, and no i don't want a fight but i appreciate blender that its free, and more powerful than milkshape. although it maybe harder to learn, it is definately worth it in the long run...


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Van B
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 11:36
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Nah, that's probably from some tutorial on how easy Blender is to use, got it through a google search and just thought it illustrated my point nicely . It's not just the way it's laid out, it's the sloppy GUI too, like those slider bars that are too wide for their text, stuff like that just deminishes my confidence in Blender. But I don't want to get on this discussion again - not when someone actually posted some details about texture baking in Blender, it's turning into a usefull application, for people who are not new at this modelling gig.


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
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Kieran
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 11:41
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yeah yeah, well looks are decieving, but by the look of your Milkshape picture you are showing that milkshape is bad

i can't even tell what that milkshape model is also the editor in Milkshape has like what? 6 buttons on screen which is showing that it hasn't got much power and blender had like 60 on screen at once which shows that if thats only some of the buttons then it must have alot of power.

anyway enough about this discussion, im dropping it before it turns ugly


RPG Engine Work in progress!
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Van B
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 12:19
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Quote: "i would like to try and have a go at modelling what software would be best and the easiest to work with considering i have no programming experience"


- this isn't about Blender, it's about suggesting a real simple modeling package that this guy will take to, and start producing work - what he does once he knows the basics is anybodies guess, but I feel it's important to start simple with modelling, at least until the mystery is gone.

When I started, the hurdles for me were not the program itself, because I'm used to complex software in my line of work - it was really more about understanding how the 3D objects worked... Like how the polygons know what side they're on, how the texture spreads over the model, how a bone structure works. Once you know this stuff then you should be able to learn any modeling package, but I honestly think this is best learned in Milkshape, it's just so straightforward and honest, and the simplistic nature just lends itself to proven modelling techniques like box modelling. My concearn is not that Blender is difficult to learn, but the time it takes is too much when your keen to get results, Milkshape provides those instant results that can propogate confidence enough to tackle better modeling packages - he could grab the demo, grab a tutorial, and have a character model done before supper.

Soz, that was longer that I intended it to be.


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
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Venge
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 13:40 Edited at: 21st Mar 2007 13:41
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Quote: "Brilliant interface, buttons nicely arranged?"


Not everyone is going to try the most complicated plug in as soon as they get it.
And the interface is very nicely arranged, obviously from that pic you can tell there are all the material/texture buttons at the bottom, and a plug-in for building trees on the right.

Quote: "but the time it takes is too much when your keen to get results"

ahem? I've been using blender for 4 months now.
I've gotten plenty of results.

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sniper_uk
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 14:14
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lol(what is it with me and forums,they always end up in a ruck) to be far guys i'm gonna try as many as humanly possible to find the one for me ,you never know i many end up using them all for different projects either way i'll keep you posted and we can all have a laugh at my attempts.
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Van B
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 14:17
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Ok then maybe Sniper_uk would be up for a little experiment. Like spend 1 evening with Blender, and one evening with the Milkshape demo, and post his thoughts on which is easier to learn.

Anyone who spends 4 months using a modeling package should be getting results, nobody is disputing that - what I would dispute is that you can get results in Blender right away, it's not as straightforward as Milkshape, and takes a lot longer to learn before you can produce usable work. That's all I'm saying, he should walk before he runs.


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
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TheSquid
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 15:46
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I've used Milkshape, gmax, anim8or, deled, gamespace light, and truespace. I didn't like any of them as much as Blender. You want to talk about a confusing interface, try using gamespace or truespace!

To be fair, Van B, your Blender screen shot is from a version that is over 2 years old. Not only that, the screen shot is of a python script that somebody else wrote. Hardly fair to use some random script as a true representation of a modeling tool. It's like taking one of my crappy games 2D games and using it to represent DBPro. (58th out of 73 entries, btw) http://www.retroremakes.com/comp2004/results.php

You're not shy about the fact that you dislike Blender. I challenge that using the following link:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Blender_3D:_Noob_to_Pro

anyone can learn Blender just as quickly as any other tool.
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Van B
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 16:01
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I already said I googled that image and it looked as complex-looking as I remember Blender to be. Trust me, it wasn't a deliberate attempt to find an extreme case just to proove a point - it's not my fault if there's evidence out there that you don't like.

Hell, anyone is free to post a nice simple straightforward screenshot of blender, but getting a blender user to post proof is like pulling a chicken's teeth.

At no point have I said I dislike Blender, I didn't want or expect this thread to turn into discussion about Blender - I was voicing my opinions that Milkshape is a more sensible suggestion for a greenhorn because it's cheap, simple, and there's a huge resource of tutorials and examples.
Obviously Blender is the cats pajamies in your collective eyes, and above any sort of critisism? - let people have their say without getting so damn fanboyish. I haven't suggested a single package that I use in this thread, it's not about personal preference, get the blinkers off for just a second and read the first post.


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DB newbie
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 17:12
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And this is Anim8or....anim8or can even animate.






Come see the WIP!

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Kieran
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 20:59 Edited at: 21st Mar 2007 21:03
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Well attatched to this post is a screenshot of blender, you will notice that the buttons are labelled and sorted neatly into categories so you can find what you need. Also that is like 2 minutes of box modelling which isn't much. Blender is a nice package and TheSquid has tried GameSpace and TrueSpace which cost a hell of a lot! GameSpace is like $200 or something and i've heard truespace is like $700 or something like that. And after that he came back to blender??? so it must be pretty darn awesome!


RPG Engine Work in progress!

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DB newbie
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 21:25
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this is odd... we are like competing to get him to use a modeling tool...odd o well


Come see the WIP!

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Venge
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 22:37 Edited at: 21st Mar 2007 22:37
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@Kieran: you need to update your blender , version 2.43 is out now.

It's not that it took 4 months to get results, I got the noob_to_pro wikibook (which is incomplete, btw), and this is one of the first things I made with it (after learning to texture)


I'm not suggesting it to be your first modeling app (I used 3d canvas first), but it's good if you want professional results (built-in renderer )

I would say get milkshape and try it for a while. THen, try blender and use it instead .
Seriously though, it's your personal preference

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sniper_uk
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 23:28
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still here guys i got blender and milkshape i'm gonna have a go with each.
By the way venge that is so cool how long did that take you to do if can i produce something half as good as that i'd be happy(and surprised).
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Venge
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 00:02 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2007 00:04
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I made that after completing (skimming) the wikibook I was talking about.
I don't know how long it took really, modelling the glass was easy enough (extrude/scale a cylinder ), it was mostly getting the texture right...

coming soon: Ford GT vs. the Corvette.
No, really.
I'm serious this time.
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QuothTheRaven
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http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=68699&b=3
Rules 1 and 2...

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Venge
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 01:08
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Quote: "http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=68699&b=3
Rules 1 and 2..."


...
kinda pointless posting that now, as van b probably would have locked this before posting in it 5 times...

coming soon: Ford GT vs. the Corvette.
No, really.
I'm serious this time.
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RUCCUS
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 01:08
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Rules aside,

Wings 3D,

Wings 3D,

And maybe... Wings 3D.


>> Gibble Blops
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Kieran
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 07:28
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hehe this is fun

@Venge
firstly i just wanna clear up that I do not Dislike you just because i have said that you post negatively earlier.

secondly i do have 2.43 but i was using the older one quickly to show that as it was better for a demonstration in my opinion


RPG Engine Work in progress!
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Van B
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 09:22
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I think there's more worrying things on this forum than modeling software queries for us to moderate . These discussions are healthy, because most of the debate comes from us remembering how damn confusing and frustrating it can all be, and not wanting other people to go through the same guff that we did. I think it gets heated because once you find a workflow that produces the models you need you damn well appreciate whatever software makes it possible .


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
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Van B
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 15:27
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Venge, that's a nice composition.

But from my POV, not useful for most people here to model, or even learn to model like that. There's a world of difference between normal modeling like in your render, and game modeling. It's the same with the tutorials for Blender, most of them do a great job, but not for game modeling.

I'm not saying it's a downside in Blender, but I'd expect more low poly stuff considering it has a game engine built in. Blender is really more like the top end modeling packages, like Cinema4D maybe, I suppose it just depends on what you want to make in it, I tend to assume anyone enquiring about modelers here is looking to make media for their game projects.


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FredP
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I vote for Milkshape.Blender confuses me.Out of all of the 3D modeling programs I have tried Milkshape works best for my needs.
Modeling,animating,file converting...it does everything I need.
I have Blender (since it's free) but I don't use it.
It gave me a headache just trying to figure it out.
But this is just my opinion.
I vote with my money as well and I bought the full version of Milkshape.

http://www.wembley1967.com
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Kieran
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 20:40
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hehe FredP finds blender confusing HAHA! thats halarious

if you read the very first tutorial then you wouldn't be confused but what most people do is open a program, the buttons aren't where their normal modellers buttons are so they exit and say its a bad modeller???

i hate milkshape not because of that but because it is not Freeware and it is not as powerful as blender and it doesn't have as much support as blender.

oh well best of luck


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sniper_uk
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 20:49 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2007 20:52
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hi guys,
firstly may i say sorry for breaking any rules for asking which is the best modeller software and secondly thanks for everyones input, with out this a newbie such as myself wouldn't have a clue which software to go for and lastly many thanks to the fpsc moderators for not shutting this forum down.

god i'm such a creep at times lmao

p.s at this stage i must admit without up setting anyone milkshape does seem to be easier to get to grips with but i haven't given up on blender yet
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Venge
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 22:33
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@Van b: the ford gt i'm working on will be specifically for a game, so its low poly version is going to turn out a lot better than my previous models posted here.

Yea, blender is more for high-poly modeling and realistic renderings, but it can be used for low-poly stuff as well

coming soon: Ford GT vs. the Corvette.
No, really.
I'm serious this time.
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BenDstraw
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 23:43
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blender is ok for being free. but there is better out there. for free or otherwise.

just because blender has the best renderer of the free apps. doesnt mean its the best app. it really depends on what he wants. maybe blender can be good for games too. but it seems like since he's new maybe he should get his feet wet in a more simple program. then move up to blender if he wants to make decent stills for free.


also dont matter how much someone likes a program, not everyone is gunna feel the same. your not the spokesperson for the program you use. no one is gunna give you a metal if you convince someone that your program is the best. really all you should do is post a link to the program. give why you THINK its a best program for the person. no need to argue

one more thing, this wasnt directed towards anyone. it just seems to be the attitude around here. that being said id suggest blender or wings for free apps and milshape or silo for commercial apps.

God modelled man in his own reference image.
comment my art at: http://www.bendstraw.deviantart.com
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zircher
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My line is use what works for you. Productivity is your goal. Every tool has its strengths and weaknesses.

I've tried dozens and dozens of modelling tools and what I'm most productive with is DoGA CGA and Metasequoia. I put Blender is the same category as GMax, Lightwave, and Maya; too much of a learning curve to bother with. I personally hate having to memorize a lot of keyboard short cuts. But, that's just my style/preference.
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hessiess
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Download the trial of ms3d and learn the basics, after you have grasped the concept its nerley completely useless. Get blender and watch tutorials. If you want to know what blender can do find elephants dream. This was made nerley entirely in blender
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Sonic 91 Software
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model magic 3d. use this! it's free, can export textures to dbpro and has just saved me from going even more insane since deled lite packed up on me.

"Fight the good fight of faith,
Lay hold on eternal life"
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Turoid
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I suggest to use milkshape, not because it has less buttons or what ever. It has a lot of export and import features. And when exporting to .x, you get a lot of settings to play with.

visit http://www.psionic3d.co.uk for some good tutorials for milkshape, good luck.

I am awesome and always right.
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indi
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2007 16:01
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milkshape
unwrap3d
paint shop pro or the gimp
character fx

is a good cheap low budget, great for DBP workspace toolset.

Hexagon2 is a personal favorite modeler of mine.
Maya 8 is now my personal favorite 3D package after a few months staring at the interface, im actually getting stuff done.

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zircher
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Quote: "Maya 8 is now my personal favorite 3D package after a few months staring at the interface, im actually getting stuff done."


Aye, that's the rub of any powerful package regardless of price and fan boys. You'll spend quite a getting up to speed. For me, that two months lost because I don't need a high end package to make low poly models for games. Your needs may vary, adjust your priorities appropriately.

BTW, I'll second Indi's basic tools set, but also suggest you could use Pixia or Paint.Net as an alternate graphics tool and Metasequoia as an alternate low poly modelling tool. It depends on your style preferences and budget. *
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* Side note, I consider Blender to be very very expensive. The time wasted and the frustration endured trying to learn it makes it a very poor choice, for me. I'm just not wired that way.

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JimB
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I think Fragmotion is a better choice other than Character FX.
http://www.fragmosoft.com/
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Pillsbury Dobok
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Wings 3D...
Milkshape...
Anim8or...

Ultimate Unwrap for texturing...

Anything but Blender... please... save yourself.

I am the keeper of the invisible flame. You shall not pass gas...
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