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3 Dimensional Chat / realistic looking people??

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David iz cool
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Posted: 7th May 2007 01:55
anyone know how i can get my people to look more real??

they always look so plastic,im trying to make them look more realistic like real people.
Fungames
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Posted: 7th May 2007 02:27 Edited at: 7th May 2007 03:48
Try bump mapping.

EDIT:If you want a model done,I'll have done it for $5/2 Pounds.

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Image All
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Posted: 7th May 2007 04:15
Change the lighting properties of the materials as well.

indi
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Posted: 7th May 2007 04:34
practice

Shadow heart
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Posted: 7th May 2007 05:26
make em...



to the ones thats trapped inside of you, this is it!!
Fungames
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Posted: 7th May 2007 12:00
Quote: "make em..."
Quote: "practice"
Quote: "Change the lighting properties of the materials as well."

All smart suggestions.

The Urban Pack V2(W.I.P.)
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 7th May 2007 12:32
There are various tutorials out there, you have to get the edge loops right, the texturing right etc. There is an amazing two part demonstration of modelling a 3D head, its done in lightwave, but its useful, go to Kurv Studios website and check out the free lightwave tutorials.

Did The Buddha have a Zen micro?
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Posted: 7th May 2007 18:57
What is an edge loop Is it something common among all good modeling packages?

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 7th May 2007 19:17 Edited at: 7th May 2007 19:17
An edge loop is a part of how you form the geometry, any good organic modeller will know where they go and how to make them, edge loops on a face tend to be around the eyes and mouth. The tutorial I told him to go to is a godsend for getting geometry on the head right, especially the edgeloops. Here I'll show you what I mean by edge loops (On a model I made straight from said tutorial):




[edit] typo!

Did The Buddha have a Zen micro?
5Louiz
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Posted: 8th May 2007 00:43 Edited at: 8th May 2007 00:45
Simulate SSS. The lack of SSS and irregularity is what causes the surface to look "plastic".

[edit]
Like indi said, practice.

Have fun


David iz cool
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Posted: 8th May 2007 04:10
ok thanks
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 8th May 2007 04:48
Good texturing can't be beaten.


Come see the WIP!
hessiess
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Posted: 8th May 2007 22:01
people are inposable to modal in lo poly, curvy objects eat polys.

about 6k polys is the absolte minimum for desent looking people.

learn blender, you will never regret it.
Shadow Coderer
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Posted: 8th May 2007 23:14
Quote: "about 6k polys is the absolte minimum for desent looking people.
"

I completely disagree with that. Cash Curtis is right, textures make or break a model, especailly human characters. Just look at the final fantasy models, they have roughly 3k polys and look amazing. Normal mapping can help alot now aswell, so there isn't an excuse to go as high as 6k unless its for CGI purposes rather than in game.

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tyrano man
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Posted: 9th May 2007 00:04
[sacrastic and bored]
Look at the Final Fantasy 2 charachters, they look great, have their own style and are 0 polys!
[\sacrastic and bored]

hessiess
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Posted: 9th May 2007 01:15
i do high poly modaling, textures and normal maping canot do anything about jagged edges cased by lo poly. this emediatly destroys any scence of realisam. games will only be good wen computers can run 1 million polys on screen. and do raytracing in realtime

learn blender, you will never regret it.
greenlig
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Posted: 9th May 2007 03:20
Heissiess - You need to learn how to model well then mate. A combination of good modelling techniques and design, and things such as normal maps, ambient occlusion maps, and textures can make a mid to low poly model look very realistic. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Greenlig

Blender3D - GIMP - WINXP - DBPro
indi
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Posted: 9th May 2007 08:33
gamedev needs realtime nurbs not polys for a much better simulation of organic content.

zenassem
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Posted: 9th May 2007 08:48
For realistic people is their anything wrong with using the "low poly" poser models, or DAZ3D versions?

I know the high poly are probably too intense for games, but I really haven't seen better human templates than the DAZ3D low poly versions. And in Poser you can adjust the sliders of the model to create numerous characters fairly easy. Obviously the poses are useless, and I never tried to fully rig one of the models, but would it work?

I would assume also that using any of the hair and cloth effects might be out the window as well?

@indi,
I wish I could understand Nurbs. I'm happy with what I am doing and learning in MilkShape right now. But my old version of Lightwave 6.0 seemed sweet, but I didn't take to it intuitively. Perhaps when I have more 3D experience I can revisit it, and all the cool tutorials. But I'll learn to walk before I run!

hessiess
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Posted: 9th May 2007 16:32
Quote: "Heissiess - You need to learn how to model well then mate. A combination of good modelling techniques and design, and things such as normal maps, ambient occlusion maps, and textures can make a mid to low poly model look very realistic. You have no idea what you are talking about."


i am fairly good at modaling, and i understand edgeloop modaling

i will only beleve that wen i see a modal witch isant ruined by jagged edgies.

learn blender, you will never regret it.
zenassem
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Posted: 9th May 2007 16:45
@Hessiess,

If it will help at all, I can take a look at the low poly poser characters I have in DBpro. If they look jagged, than there is something wrong.

I'd send one of them to you for testing, but I'm not sure if that would be legal for me to do.

Can anyone confirm whether or not I am able to send Hessies one of those models, or Daz3d models for testing? Or would I be breaching the copyrights or UAP or something???

hessiess
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Posted: 9th May 2007 16:59
if its true then mabie i need to inprove my modaling, carictor arms look wired wen you rotate the carictor becose of the large flat faces. im only intrested in 3rd person games, i havent yet seen one witch isent let down by large flat faces on modals

learn blender, you will never regret it.
Image All
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Posted: 9th May 2007 20:01


I dare you to tell me that is either ugly or high poly.

hessiess
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Posted: 9th May 2007 21:07
i can tell that its lo poly becose the arm looks bad and the left of the horses ears. and the rug on the back just looks wrong. when was the last time you saw a hexagon shaped roled up rug?

learn blender, you will never regret it.
Shadow Coderer
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Posted: 9th May 2007 21:18 Edited at: 9th May 2007 21:21
I dont think link is the best example of a realistic person. I suspect one of the reasons that link is stylised to a certain degree is the hardware limitations. On the other hand, the texures are great, and the lighting does not give away the fact that he is low poly.
Despite seeming to contradict my other post, this prompts me to post a final fantasy pic instead!

Its the best ingame shot of ffxii I could find on IGN at short notice, and you should bear in mind that in ffxii, Square Enix used half as many polygons in favour of "more advanced texturing and lighting" No idea what they meant by advanced texturing but never the less, it looks pretty real in my opinion. And neither link or nondescript ff person look "plasticy" as described by david iz cool.
edit:
Quote: "i can tell that its lo poly becose the arm looks bad and the left of the horses ears. and the rug on the back just looks wrong. when was the last time you saw a hexagon shaped roled up rug?
"

We are talking 'bout humans here! The rug could be square for all the difference it makes to this topic!

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hessiess
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Posted: 9th May 2007 21:29
i think that the texturing on the furst one is better than the second one. the second image looks more realistic than the furst. but i can still tell its computer genarated and lo poly. agen its given away by sharp angles on the edge of the modal. it dosant look plasticy, buy if it was renderd closer to the face it would look like clay without sss.

learn blender, you will never regret it.
Chenak
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Posted: 9th May 2007 22:09
FF12 is for the ps2 so its hardly going to have ultra realistic 10k poly characters. If you play it you will appreciate how much skill and effort went into those low polygon models. They look fantastic. They are not supposed to be photo realistic, and on screen you can barely notice any hard edges.

It never renders close to the face, so whats the point in smoothing down those supposed edges? There is none, it just wastes FPS. There are cinematics for that, and im guessing high poly models for cutscenes. The FF12 camera is quite far off from the characters, I for one have not noticed any edges. In doom3 they are everywhere O.o, so a thumbs up to FF12

Same for the zelda game, you only notice the edges on screen shots, ingame you can barely notice anything.

If you seriously need more 3rd person games with fantastic models... Resident Evil 4 for the Gamecube (None of the crappy ports, PC one is okay ish but the GC one is the best!)

Those models were the best I've seen for a 3rd person shooter.
zenassem
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Posted: 9th May 2007 22:20 Edited at: 9th May 2007 22:24
Just for reference, Here is what the daz3d models for poser look like.

High Poly based off of Victoria 3 base model


Med-low poly for Poser



I really hope that your not trying to achieve better than that

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 9th May 2007 23:24
@Indi, even better the type of Open GL technology Zbrush and Hexagon use but in games...man imagine that games rendering millions of polies a frame...Fun (Dunno what limitations there might be, those millions might be shortcutted)

Look behind you a threeheaded monkey!
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Posted: 9th May 2007 23:29 Edited at: 9th May 2007 23:30
@hessiess: Excuse me for enjoying a game where the concern is more "Frames per second" over "Seconds per frame". I'd like to see how big any game project of yours can get with your over-indulgent modeling before you wise up and do some poly reduction, then maybe learn half-decent texturing skills.

hessiess
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Posted: 9th May 2007 23:30 Edited at: 9th May 2007 23:47
im uset to renders taking 1 to 2 howers!. im working on a short film! not a game.

that 2nd one looks rilly good. thats the sort of polycount i think game modals should have! with abit of particle hair it would look perfect!

im not trying to acheve anything! just saying that ive never seen a lo poly modal that isant ruined by hard edges. im the cind of person who spots any tiny error with anything. im never hapy with anything i make.

on the gurl the hair looks like polygon hair, and theres no detail in the scin, it is never that smooth, alwase has some texture on it

learn blender, you will never regret it.
GatorHex
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Posted: 9th May 2007 23:59 Edited at: 9th May 2007 23:59
for real time in game you can't do without nVidia skin shader

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
MonoCoder
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Posted: 9th May 2007 23:59 Edited at: 10th May 2007 00:00
Perfect models are for films, not for games. There's just no practical reason to use them.
Ankillito
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Posted: 10th May 2007 02:25
well, maybe if everyone bought a million dollar computer, than we could use realistic models. I bet in 20 years video games will look more realistic than movies do now.

"There will always be evil, for, without evil, the good shall lose their virtue."
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Posted: 10th May 2007 02:37
I hope you are referring to CG animated movies; nothing fake ever beats reality. As technology in gaming increases, so will movie production. There will never be games with better quality visuals than professional footage of reality.

Ankillito
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Posted: 10th May 2007 02:49
I meant future video game models will look better than current movie animation models.

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hessiess
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Posted: 10th May 2007 09:57
Quote: "I meant future video game models will look better than current movie animation models."


its alredy posable to make photorealistic renders, how can you do better than that?

learn blender, you will never regret it.
John H
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Posted: 10th May 2007 13:36
For all intensive game purposes, characters with millions of polies, multiple 2024x2024 or HIGHER high res textures, along with bump maps and shaders and an alpha map for kicks, well, they just wont work in any sort of a game.


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zenassem
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Posted: 10th May 2007 16:45
Quote: "its alredy posable to make photorealistic renders, how can you do better than that?"


Renders are different than real-time interactive models. I think I understand what he meant. He's meaning video games for the masses and slightly above avg home computer in the future will have more realistic models than, current movies even.

While they can have photo realistic renders in film, it's not done for every effect. You can still see things that don't look, move, or behave quite right. I also see a difference between Photo realistic, and Computer Realistc. Most of what is computer generated in films are actually too perfect or too sharp, making them look unreal. Along with physics, and human movement patterns, i think will see alot more work going into modeling renders and textures, to minimize the too-perfect to be real. I know a lot of work has already been done, and I have seen effects based of of fractal formulas that can be used on geometry and textures to un-perfect everything.

Am I making sense? It seems in one direction (visuals) we went passed duplicating reality, and in another direction (Physics, natural movement, cloth/particle movement, Animation) we are currently well behind duplicating reality, (although making advances). What's interesting the is until we close the gap, things will look odd. You have the "super perfect graphics", with odd behavior to the environment.

Our brains are so hardwired to detect motion, especially of the human form, that anything even the slightest anomally is easily detected. We may not be able to describe exactly what is wrong, but we'll have a sense that something just isn't right.

Code Dragon
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Posted: 10th May 2007 17:33 Edited at: 10th May 2007 17:38
Quote: "I bet in 20 years video games will look more realistic than movies do now."


I'd give it only 8 years, the problem today is that more polys linearly increases the need for better graphics cards. Realtime raytracing is becoming a better and better alternative to rasterization, where polys logarithmically increases the need for better graphics cards.

Not to mention that raytracing looks exactly like real life, by defintion, it contains the equations for how light behaves. You can speed it up by having several RPUs each rendering a 8x8 portion of the screen simultainously for realtime rendering. Shaders would be obsolete, raytracing can natively handle reflection and refraction.

I can't wait until the day that we can go to the computer store and buy RPUs instead of GPUs, rendering would have been perfected, much like the way color was perfected when TrueColor came out.

"Once there was a polygon mesh who was very sad because he was only Gouraud shaded."
tyrano man
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Posted: 10th May 2007 21:46
It won't be too long. As with the current rate of advancement in technology. The general computer it doubleing in power every three years. So in 2010 we'll have something like a Nvidia geforce 17600! (double a 8800 hehe).

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 10th May 2007 22:18
It really won't be long I agree, we already have the technology for realtime photo realistic technology, I mean Zbrush, Hexagon and Silo are already capable of handling millions of polygons at real time, Zbrush has a great real time renderer, you can have hi res photorealistic textures and set custom materials on to the models. If they could somehow but that Open GL technology into our game engines, there would be a lot we could do in terms of realism.

Look behind you a threeheaded monkey!
Shadow Coderer
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Posted: 10th May 2007 22:19
I heard that some company had already found a way to get realtime global illumination - using current hardware. And poly counts are getting pushed higher and higher. Gears of war anyone? I challenge hessiness to find any jagged edges in those character models. I'm starting to wonder what the appeal of the game creators website is for you, as it seams that you are sickened by anything <10k polies with particle hair. Hardly the output of gamespace and darkbasic pro is it? Don't get me wrong, I do not wish for you to leave or anything, but I am curious about why you chose these forums above more animator/cg oriented ones.
I think that power conservation and enviromentally friendly-er PCs will hinder the progress of the quality of realtime models and games. Assuming that microsoft and other manufacturers are concerned about global warming.

"Psst! Brian! There's a message in my alphabet soup. It says, 'oooooooooo!'"
"Peter, those are Cheerios."
hessiess
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Posted: 11th May 2007 00:27
manly becose allot more happens on this form! on blenderartists my posts are just put to one side and ignored. there are sometimes some interesting threds in off topic. im not modaling as mutch at the moment becose im trying to lern how to use linux.

why havent there been any nurbs based game engines? do thay recwire more prosessor power? gi raytracing isant neseseraly good becose it tends to make supa realistic renders.

learn blender, you will never regret it.
Ankillito
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Posted: 11th May 2007 05:04 Edited at: 11th May 2007 05:07
@ John H

Quote: "For all intensive game purposes, characters with millions of polies, multiple 2024x2024 or HIGHER high res textures, along with bump maps and shaders and an alpha map for kicks, well, they just wont work in any sort of a game."


Not yet. In the future, watches will have more computing power than your current computer... Well, that might be overkill...

"There will always be evil, for, without evil, the good shall lose their virtue."
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Posted: 11th May 2007 07:10
The future sounds awfully retarded to me.

hessiess
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Posted: 11th May 2007 18:24
Quote: "Quote: "For all intensive game purposes, characters with millions of polies, multiple 2024x2024 or HIGHER high res textures, along with bump maps and shaders and an alpha map for kicks, well, they just wont work in any sort of a game."

Not yet. In the future, watches will have more computing power than your current computer... Well, that might be overkill..."


no good fore me then, i can only reed a analog clock quickly,takes me 20 sec to reed a digetal clock

computers geting smaller would be completly usless for me, i like big monitios

learn blender, you will never regret it.
tyrano man
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Posted: 11th May 2007 18:37
yeah soon they will have 0.5" screens, and thats for a desktop
hehe

SamHH
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Posted: 11th May 2007 18:59
Wow from how to get real looking people to .5 inch screens and the typos are unbearable.
Shadow Coderer
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Posted: 11th May 2007 19:17
The lack of capital letters gets to me.

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