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3 Dimensional Chat / Softimage XSI 6 Mod tool has been released + ongoing inversion issue (everyone welcome)

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Redmotion
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Posted: 18th Aug 2007 11:51 Edited at: 18th Aug 2007 11:52
Okay last bit. It is possible to make a hybrid of the plugin in XSI as an alternative to a standalone app in which you feed in the file and it spits out the corrected one.

Principle could be :

Click on DBProDX export menu >
Code then does:
DXEport command (do a search for this in the SDK docs - its a built in command) > user enters options/filename and saves file > new section of plugin then reads exported DX file > writes a new corrected DX file.

It would cut out the second stage of having to go into another program and find the file and convert it.

CattleRustler
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Posted: 18th Aug 2007 15:32 Edited at: 18th Aug 2007 15:39
Quote: "What I think should generally happen is all the z co-ordinates need to be multiplied by -1 to flip them."

yep, I said that too a few posts above here

it comes down to xsi scene z axis negative/positive values are opposite to DirectX. Their dx exporter is simply not following dx specification. They are generating the file x file correctly but they are not changing their z axis values to match what dx expects. They should really fix this in their exporter.

I have messed about with the values manually and can correct the problem for the most part, but I still need to fiddle with some stuff, and find out a couple of things regarding the x file specification. There's a couple sections I dont understand what the data means, but most I do. Once I sort that I can build an app that will read in the x file (exported) and generate a new file with the flipped values, and all should be as expected. Obviously this may take a little while. Ill keep you posted on my progress

do you think its worth bringing this to xsi's attention? I guess they know about it. I think it would be fairly easy for them to include an option in their dx exporter like a checkbox called "Invert Z Axis" or something, then a simple condition test for that setting, and if its true just apply * -1 to all z values during the compile of the x file.

EDIT: when I wrote this post I didnt see your above one (this thread got a second page of posts but I didnt notice) I will have a look at the docs regarding the issue. thanks.

My DBP plugins page is now hosted [href]here[/href]
CattleRustler
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Posted: 18th Aug 2007 16:16
I dont see what youre talking about in the xsi docs. I searched DX and DXExport, both return No Topics. Can you direct me to the section of the docs youre referring to?

My DBP plugins page is now hosted [href]here[/href]
Redmotion
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Posted: 19th Aug 2007 09:51
Top menu bar > Help menu> SDK Guides > index tab > type DXExport - that should get you straight there.

CattleRustler
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Posted: 19th Aug 2007 17:43
ah I see, I was in the XSI Docs, not the SDK

anyway I am reading up on this. XSI sdk supports .NET which is very cool. Too bad we cant get at the innards of the dxexport function itself, thats where we'd need to tweak what its doing.

I have made some progress on what needs to be done to an x file correct the problem, just still sorting some issues having to do with the point vector data in the Mesh frames

My DBP plugins page is now hosted [href]here[/href]
Redmotion
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Posted: 19th Aug 2007 18:36
Cool, glad you found it. Mostly, I use the C# .NET part of the SDK when making compiled plugins and vbscript when scripting.

When you're programming a compiled plugin you can still call script commands (like the dxexport command) from within the .dll, so I thought, once the standalone is working well, the new code could be adapted as part of an extended directx exporter, which would run the normal dxexport command first and then the new code could amend the file it outputs.

(I think the only way to get into the dxexporters innards would be to request the source from Softimage.)

CattleRustler
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Posted: 19th Aug 2007 19:24
Quote: "once the standalone is working well, the new code could be adapted as part of an extended directx exporter, which would run the normal dxexport command first and then the new code could amend the file it outputs."

ah, right

good idea... if we get there
still sorting the x file data that needs tweaking. If I get that sorted then I can think about an automated tool, then maybe later an xsi plugin like you mentioned

My DBP plugins page is now hosted [href]here[/href]
Luciferia
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Posted: 19th Aug 2007 23:13
I still think it could use the milkshape thing where pictures can be put in to the background of views.
CattleRustler
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 00:07
in XSI you mean?
I think you can, not sure tho

My DBP plugins page is now hosted [href]here[/href]
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 01:15
Well there's more than one way to skin a cat, I haven't found out how to do that in Silo 2, what I just do is make a plain and texture it with a ref image and put it out of the way - simple and it works - plus you can adjust sizes and positions so if some images don't align for the right views, you can align them there and then.

Hakuna Matata
CattleRustler
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 02:04
yep, in XSI you can use the Rotoscope feature to put images in the viewports to then use as a guide for your model.

also, regarding the Z Inversion (mirroring) issue with the dx exporter: I figured out how to fix mesh Positions, and mesh Points, the only issue now is the Normals Vectors.

My DBP plugins page is now hosted [href]here[/href]
Sopo the tocho
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 03:41
This is incredible, I just downloaded this software and I'm wondering why they put this massive 3D modeling tool in our hands for free! I just cant believe it!

Intel Pentium core 2 duo T6600 2,6 mhz 4mb, 4 gb ram 600 mhz ddr2, ATI X1650 radeon
CattleRustler
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 04:41 Edited at: 20th Aug 2007 04:43
shhhh!
dont make them have second thoughts!

if you havent read this whole thread I will alert you that when exporting your models to .X the z axis values are not handled correctly by their exporter, and leaves the z positive and z negative values inverted from the xsi scene data, as compared to how DX and DBP expects it. This will appear as a y180 rotation at first, but its really a Z mirroring - it affects all z data.

I am working on a solution
Read the whole thread for more info (if you havent already)

Ill keep this thread updated with the progress

My DBP plugins page is now hosted [href]here[/href]
Luciferia
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 20:05
ok, cheers guys! wasn't quite sure how to do it.
CattleRustler
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 21:00
heres a good set of t00ts for modelling against a rotoscope in xsi 6 mod tool

http://digimill.blogspot.com/2007/04/t00t-basic-plane-modeling-in-xsi.html

My DBP plugins page is now hosted [href]here[/href]
CattleRustler
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Posted: 21st Aug 2007 00:00
Ok, with the help of Apexnow we sorted the problems with the normals data in the x files, and now that I understand the "rules" so to speak, I can begin on a converter app.

Goal for first version of app will be to:
-correct positions
-correct geometry
-correct normals vectors

all of which was tested by manual edit and seems to be ok.


Later iterations of the app will handle
-Texture data
-Animations data

Thanks to Apex for the help and insight on the x file data
Ill keep this thread posted...

My DBP plugins page is now hosted [href]here[/href]
Luciferia
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Posted: 21st Aug 2007 16:15
Do you have to have XNA or Valve Source to make it work because i downloaded it and the mod tool picture comes up and the application behind it then they both disapear as if i exited it?
CattleRustler
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Posted: 21st Aug 2007 16:52
I dont have XNA, but I do have Valve Steam/Source SDK stuff installed.

I think its a stand-alone app and should not require either of those two items, but I am not sure. Maybe fish around on their site. I dont recall seeing those requirements. Is your dx up to date? vid drivers up to date?

Recently Apex could not open models I made and exported to x without updating his dx drivers. Theyve mucked around with shaders and shader support so I have no idea. Ill look in the docs and see if there are some requirements...

My DBP plugins page is now hosted [href]here[/href]
CattleRustler
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Posted: 21st Aug 2007 17:13
I found these requirements on some site:
Other minimum system requirements:
256MB RAM
200MB Swap
OpenGL accelerated graphics card
64 MB RAM or more recommended
CD-ROM
3-B mouse

And I think it only runs on XP, or xp and higher - not sure

My DBP plugins page is now hosted [href]here[/href]
CattleRustler
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Posted: 25th Aug 2007 04:36
Ok, I have a small converter app that seems to be working nicely to correct the Z-mirroring issue with XSI 6 mod tool DirectX exported files.

Currently it corrects (in Z):
-object positions
-object geometry
-object normals

Tomorrow first thing Ill post a version here for anyone that wants to test it out. Once we are satisfied that all is well with whatever we can throw at it (with regards to positions, geometry, and normals ONLY), then I can move on to adding Animations, Texturing, etc.

Ill make a thread about it tomr.
sleep time



My DBP plugins page is now hosted [href]here[/href]
Redmotion
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Posted: 25th Aug 2007 13:33
@ CR: Hi CR, Great to hear things are progressing well. Look forward to using the app.

@ Luciferia: You don't need XNA or Valve Source to use the mod tool for direct x files. However, if you do want to make assets for Valve or XNA you won't get very far without them.

XSI has pretty much every feature you could need for game dev. If you can't find a function just do a search for it - more than likely it just has a different name.

CattleRustler
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Posted: 25th Aug 2007 21:18 Edited at: 25th Aug 2007 22:03
@ RedMotion
The app was ready to be posted when I discovered a small hiccup in the normals, so it will be delayed a bit.

I should have something in a little while.


EDIT: sorted the issue, all looks good, post in a few mins

My DBP plugins page is now hosted [href]here[/href]
CattleRustler
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Posted: 26th Aug 2007 01:06
first version of the DXZMirror app released for testing
its attached to this thread:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=113106&b=3

My DBP plugins page is now hosted [href]here[/href]

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