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Dark GDK / TODO for the next release of DGDK.NET (v1.0.10.0)

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APEXnow
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Posted: 19th Aug 2007 18:50 Edited at: 19th Aug 2007 18:52
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Hi people. I'm asking for any comments regarding added functionality that needs to be addressed in the DGDK.NET toolkit.

I've listed a couple of things to begin with, but if people are needing, (not wishing for), but actually require a fix to be applied, or maybe a work around, can you please specify what that request is, 'clearly', so that even a child could understand it.

=================================================================



1. I need to address the way in which Idgdk3D :: PickScreen function works so that it calculates the correct 3D surface co-ordinate based on views that are rendered into a windows form control. This is by far one of the most annoying problems associated with the toolkit so far.

2. I need to address the problem of how keyboard and input events are received when using Winforms applications. The original DGDK.NET window still receives the messages associated with input events, and these need to be forwarded to the OverrideHWND window instead.

Paul.


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Jna99
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Posted: 19th Aug 2007 21:36 Edited at: 19th Aug 2007 21:36
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3. When the OverrideHWND is done the GDK window still appears.

4. Transparency still has a few issues,(e.g when you a apply transparency to an object that has limbs which have different z coordinates, the transparent parts of the closest limb overlaps the visible parts of the farest)

5. More commands to limbs like dbSetLimbAlpha or dbExcludeLimb

6. Correct the DeleteCamera B.O

7. A command to turn off SetCameraToImage.

8. Turn on/off Anti-Allising and Anisotropic

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 19th Aug 2007 21:41
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isnt most of that up to tgc to implement first in the dgdk, then it can be updated for dgdk.net?

My DBP plugins page is now hosted [href]here[/href]
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psx
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 12:30
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Loading resources from memory buffer. Its important.
With this we could write our own packers/unpackers.

Example

dbLoadObject( void* BufferPtr, int BufferSize, int nID )

and this version with all loading functions.
With this, it's possible to use structured storage or something like it.
I'm using C++ DGDK, and it seems that you asked about GDK.net.
Anyway, it will be very useful even for DGDK.NET
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kBessa
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 17:48
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@psx:
Good one, I almost forgot it.

@APEXnow:
I know we've talked about this a lot of times and I know you're not the one responsible for this, but I think you are the closer one talking to Mike that could point him this one

People have been asking for a "loading from memory" for years! It would be a great addition!
Recently there were some updates for DGDK but then they completely froze! Don't leave us alone TGC!
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 21:39
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Apex

Speak to the author of Sparky's Collision (Paul Johnston) and see if he will implement it for DGDK.NET

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=31051&b=5



My DBP plugins page is now hosted [href]here[/href]
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Argon Knight
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Posted: 21st Aug 2007 06:29 Edited at: 21st Aug 2007 06:30
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The PrintC function is missing. I wrote more about it here:

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=111182&b=15
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Jna99
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Posted: 21st Aug 2007 12:40
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9. More types of objects supported like lwo, obj

10. Updated documentation!!

11. Save Image as a dds breaks the program

12. setCameraToimage again...has two signatures, on the second one theres a field called alphagen when it's activated the program crashes

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APEXnow
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Posted: 21st Aug 2007 20:08
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I will try to accomodate the majority of you, but I will not be able to fix the actual internal issues of some of the functions. Bugs that occur with the actual functions, rather than DGDK.NET specific issues, must be posted as genuine DGDK bugs because the bug will exist for DGDK as well.

Paul.


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Jna99
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Posted: 21st Aug 2007 21:10
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APEXnow so how should we process regarding the bug report?

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 21st Aug 2007 21:22
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go to the bug forum, search for your issues to see that they have not already been asked/answered, if they havent post a thread for each bug you think youve found. they will reply...eventually.

My DBP plugins page is now hosted [href]here[/href]
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Ziaden
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2007 03:36
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"10. Updated documentation!!"
Ditto.

The world's first MMOW
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kBessa
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Posted: 17th Sep 2007 07:05
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Hi Paul,

I just found one thing! After the inclusion of CameraExist, I found another one missing. I know it exists on DBPro (dunno on DGDK).

TERRAIN EXIST : Return Integer=TERRAIN EXIST(Terrain Number)

Another one is a way to check if a Collision Number is already in use, although I don't know if this is possible, haven't seen a Expression, even in DBPro.

All for now, cheers my friend!

Thiago
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thierry st malo
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Posted: 17th Sep 2007 17:23
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I couldn't agree more with your 1.
Thierry
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jason p sage
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Posted: 18th Sep 2007 22:19
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@kBessa -
Quote: "TERRAIN EXIST : Return Integer=TERRAIN EXIST(Terrain Number)
"


DarkGDK Terrain seems to be DBPro AT or Advanced Terrain. If this is the case - Wouldn't if dbObjectExist(MyTerrainID)==1 do the trick?


http://www.jasonpetersage.com/?PAGE=jpsmain&SECTION=IRONINFANTRY
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kBessa
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Posted: 19th Sep 2007 06:49
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@jason:

Hum... I don't know about that, actualy I never investigated it. Do Objects and Terrains share IDs like 3DMaths? Unfortunately I left my laptop at work today, I will take a look at this tomorrow.
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jason p sage
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Posted: 19th Sep 2007 12:54
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Well I'm still just getting into DarkGDK - but the advanced terrain in DBPro is object. In fact - not only a shred ID - you can give the ID to Parkey and do collision with it.

The DarkGDK commands for terrain resemble the DBPro ones so much that I would almost me willing to be its the same "subsystem". If it is - its really and object with limbs - an d if its like DBPro yet again - you can have more thsn advanced terrain at a time. I played arround wity tiling them once in DBPro. There they defiantely are not only shared - but indeed - the advanced terrain is an object that you can do "Object Stuff" to.


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kBessa
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Posted: 20th Sep 2007 04:29
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I opened the Terrain Showcase in DBPro and it uses ID 1 for terrain and ID 1 for skyboxes, hiding object 1 hides the skybox, so I am completely sure they are not the same. I think a TerrainExist method is really missing.

Can you confirm this Paul?

Thiago
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jason p sage
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Posted: 20th Sep 2007 05:13
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Terrain or Advanced? Because I'm pretty Sure DarkGDK Terrain is not the same as DBPro Terrain.

It is confusing. In DBPro there is the Stock Terrain - and then there is Advanced Terrains. I Think in DarkGDK - the Terrain is like the DBPro "Advanced Terrain Addon - that they eventually gave out for free for DbPro users - I think because the stock Terrain was so bad.

So Yes. Stock DBPro Terrain and Objects are not the same - but Objects and Advanced Terrain Are. I could be totally wrong here - but if no one clarifies - I'll be able to answer this myself in a few days when I get there. I can change my code to go either way fairly easily... but - In DB Pro I used Sparky's collision for my "Terrain" (Advanced Terrain) but I don't think it would of worked with Sparky's if I used a Srtock Terrain - because of what you said - (stock)Terrain and Objects DO use different ID's.

(I hope I'm right because otherwise I may have SParky issues in DarkGDK if they implemented the stock one )

Thank You for responding and being interested. Now my curiousity is peaked.

"Cheers" as they say in the uk - better then the "goodbye's" we usually say/hear in the states...


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APEXnow
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Posted: 20th Sep 2007 20:36
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Hate to say, but I've looked through the terrain library and I cannot find a function that resembles an (exist) call. Unless Mike over at TGC can refer me to a function that I could expose in DGDK.NET for testing terrain existance, there's not alot else you can do. You probably could get away with using the sObject structure in C/C++ or in a plugin to implement a function that could test whether an object IS a terrain type. But it may need a little work.

Paul.


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jason p sage
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Posted: 20th Sep 2007 21:39
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@ApexNow - you'd know better than me - (I Think you're referring to me) - but I thought DarkGDK Terrain is the same as Advanced terrain. As Such - Terrain is just an Object - With a cool API call to handle LIMB culling and routines to set up and update the "specifics" of making that object look in fact like terrain.

I suspect you are the guy making the DarkGDK C# work - so you have access to more "stuff" and I haven't experimented yet - ALMOST - maybe tonight (Porting Iron Infantry to DarkGDK) - but I suspect it will act like AT does in DBPro... Shoot.. if I'm wrong I'll have a "what now" quandry for landscape


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kBessa
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Posted: 20th Sep 2007 23:24 Edited at: 20th Sep 2007 23:26
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@jason: I just tested it.

-Created an object with ID 1, ObjectExist(1) returns 1
-Created a terrain with ID 2, ObjectExist(2) returns 0
-Created an object with ID 2, ObjectExist(2) returns 0
(I've removed the terrain code on the last one, of course)

@APEX: And about Collision, is there a way to know if a colision ID is already in use? Didn't find anything, even on DBPro manual. =/

Thiago
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APEXnow
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 01:02
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Quote: "@APEX: And about Collision, is there a way to know if a colision ID is already in use? Didn't find anything, even on DBPro manual. =/"


kB, not sure what you're trying to achieve with that one. It doesn't matter whether an object is within the collision list or not, if people use the collision code correctly, they don't need to know if an object is tested against or not. The idea of collision lists is to actually test against objects within range that are probably likely to collide. I.e. you wouldn't test object collision against objects that are not within camera view, or even further out from the player's view point. This basically boils down to efficient game design and code efficiency.

Paul.


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jason p sage
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OH MY GOSH! Thanx for testing but HOW DO I test for ground hits then? This REALLY REALLY stinks if I'm not missing anything. How Do I tell Sparky to do raycasts etc......


Man... I may have to figure out a way to my own from scratch - like Tiled MAtrixes with hi and low res ones for far away ... MAN...

DBPRO had that perfect. Terrain was an Object.. (If using Advanced terrain) THIS STINKS!!....

um.... Any kind words to save me from a complete terrain rethink/redesign/code a lot and test alot marathon?


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APEXnow
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 01:23
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Jason, I'm actually working on Sparky's collision DLL to work in DGDK.NET, but it's taking me longer than I had planned. Reason is... well... work tbh. I've already done the preliminary work on this, so I really do hope to have a plugin that Sparky will provide in some flavour, but please be patient with me. I'm up to my ears in it atm, but I'll do my best to come through.

Basically, Sparky's DLL is a reality, just needs time to sort out.

Paul.


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jason p sage
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QAPEX - I appreciate the effort - but I'm cool man - I have C++ - and Sparky did release the C++ version fo DarkGDK - My Meltdown is because I can't treat a limbed terrain (Advanced Terrain) in DarkGDK like I could in DBPro according to kBessa's test. They HONESTLY do share same Object ID list in DBPro - AT and Objects. DBPro Stock Terrain commands don't. I think that now appears to be the Bucket they tossed the Advanced Terrain in - subsequently separating the Object ID from the Advanced Terrain ID - the way they originally designed it. That is my problem ... in SHORT....

I USED to be able to:

Sparky - SETUP MY TERRAIN...Yes Sir
SParkY - Set Up My ROCK...Yes Sir
Sparky - Did Falling Rock Hit Terrain? Yes Sir

Now in Dark GDK it Will Be like:
Sparky - SETUP MY TERRAIN...Your What?
SParkY - Set Up My ROCK...Yes Sir
Sparky - Did Falling Rock Hit Terrain? Um... I don't know.


That is my dilema and its not C# - so fight your battles bro - I really appreciate the concern... maybe I'll get dragged through some programming exercise that makes me a better game developer - with me kicking and screaming all the way - Happened with C++ ... I'm starting to like it - Happened with .net... its cool...

If I get stuck making my own editor or something crazy - I hope you can point me toward some of the better "How to make a light map" tutorials!


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kBessa
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 05:27
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Paul, I didn't specifie, actually I was talking about BSP Collision, and anyways, few people will use it, and I already made a diferent ID Manager for it and Terrain, so probably people will not have any problems with it (as long as this person only use LightEngine for BSP and no external plugins or DGDK commands). It was just curiosity.

About terrains, I asked because it exists in DBPro, but I also think people will not use it that much (again, the ID manager is capable of handling it).

Keep up the good work!

Best regards my friend,
Thiago
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APEXnow
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Posted: 24th Sep 2007 23:07
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Jason, I've removed your post as I don't want this thread hijacked with an off topic issue. Can you repost the query in a separate thread, thank you

Paul.


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cypher0
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I think documentating the existing commands should really be a priority any new ones are implemented.

There's so many undocumented commands already available, even some nice looking CSG and BSP-lightmapping ones, but with no detail on how to use them properly.

Apart from that it would also be nice to have access to some of the unmanaged memory space of DGDK, for instance, to change the view-matrix used by the camera.
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OmarDo com
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Hello,

I'm Asking if you will make another free version DarkGDK.net as like Dark GDK ??

Good bye
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Bluestar4
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Posted: 24th Dec 2007 16:41 Edited at: 24th Dec 2007 18:11
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Quote: "Hi people. I'm asking for any comments regarding added functionality that needs to be addressed in the DGDK.NET toolkit"

and where do I download it ?

-edited to add-
and here is a quick question or 2 for you - I get the feeling as I look at the dark gdk that it locks you into using DX9c. well I hate to say this , but my vista OS uses dx 10 , so will I still need to download the dx9 sdk to use this ? and another thing - if microsoft is backing this product why isn't it included as an optional component on the install program ? this last point alone is something I believe that TGC should strongly consider and even request that microsoft include this as an optional component on the installer. Lastly , if its not compatible with Dx10 then programs made with it will be of little use to the general public.

Sutter Soft
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CattleRustler
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Quote: "I get the feeling as I look at the dark gdk that it locks you into using DX9c. well I hate to say this , but my vista OS uses dx 10 , so will I still need to download the dx9 sdk to use this ? "

Yes, the current dgdk uses dx9c (latest version) but they (dx10 and 9) can live happily, side by side on the same machine for Vista

Quote: "and another thing - if microsoft is backing this product why isn't it included as an optional component on the install program ?"

These products (dgdk, dgdk.net) existed already, MS and TGC got into a deal where each product will help push the other, so they put them together in a free deal for vs2008, but at the end of the day both products (VS express and dgdk's) are separate products, so ms doesnt/didnt feel the need to include dgdk as part of its install. No big dilemma really.

Quote: "this last point alone is something I believe that TGC should strongly consider and even request that microsoft include this as an optional component on the installer. "

maybe they will, or they wont - I guess we'll see

Quote: "Lastly , if its not compatible with Dx10 then programs made with it will be of little use to the general public."

Currently TGC is working on DX10 versions of their products, FPSC DX10 is either released or soon to be. This leads me to believe that the DGDK/DGDK.NET cant be far behind but I dont know that for sure. As far as DBP - who knows.

My DBP plugins page is now hosted [href]here[/href]
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Alfie
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All the checklist commands (c++ version) should have a small "l" (non-capitalized) in the documentation. Seems simple but just about drove me insane because I didn't think to look that the documentation might be wrong.

Might be worth fixing for the next update or for the .NET version.

The whole multiplayer tutorial isn't in C++ code also (I have to translate and find the function in the documentation manually), it might be nice for the tutorial to be converted into code for c++ in further updates and likewise for the .NET version (as that tutorial is reasonably advanced as it is).

Cheers
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Cryptic Dragon
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Quote: "psx

Loading resources from memory buffer. Its important.
With this we could write our own packers/unpackers.

Example

dbLoadObject( void* BufferPtr, int BufferSize, int nID )

and this version with all loading functions.
With this, it's possible to use structured storage or something like it.
I'm using C++ DGDK, and it seems that you asked about GDK.net.
Anyway, it will be very useful even for DGDK.NET"


I agree. Whether it is a pointer and linked list or even loading a simple integer array into the ram with a range from 0 to 255 for each 8 bit character. This way we could easily create encrypted files that would still decrypt very fast in the ram then send the decrypted array into your DarkGDK Black Box for further use. To me I look at unpacking much like you look at data encryption/decryption or compression/decompression.

The only other option would eat up a lot of load time at the game start if we had to call an ecrypted file into ram such as a linked list or array, decrypt the sequence of bits into another array or linked list, save it to the hard drive as a file recongnized by DarkGDK, then use the new recognized file and call it using a DarkGDK function, then MultiShred and Delete the recongnized file. While this would work it could take a long amount of time especially if it were large files or a very large number of small files that are being loaded.

CrypticDragon

You know for a fact that you have reached the edge when you can absolutely see sound!
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Cryptic Dragon
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Quote: "psx

Loading resources from memory buffer. Its important.
With this we could write our own packers/unpackers.

Example

dbLoadObject( void* BufferPtr, int BufferSize, int nID )

and this version with all loading functions.
With this, it's possible to use structured storage or something like it.
I'm using C++ DGDK, and it seems that you asked about GDK.net.
Anyway, it will be very useful even for DGDK.NET"


I have several reasons for asking for this type of function. Let us assume that if an old employee was a disgruntled employee of my company. They may have felt that we did him or her wrong somehow such as if we had to fire them from the job. They could create a very simple virus that could easily delete those image, mesh, and sound files then replace them with the same file name but different information. Since the DarkGDK loads by file name a virus could place functional files in their place and then all kinds of nasty things could show up during the game play that could discredit your company especially if one of your respected End Users who paid for the game gets hit.

If the files were encrypted and I would be the only one who knows the decryption sequences then this would at least help some in preventing an attack by a virus writer.

CrypticDragon

You know for a fact that you have reached the edge when you can absolutely see sound!
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Jumpster
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Simple request, unless I'm missing something here; I know we can override the HWND - but I'd like to just retrieve the existing one...

Regards,
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crazy bmanp
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add a way to use directx 10, i can't even use this because i have 10 and it needs 9.
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Bluestar4
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@crazy bmanp & cattle rustler,
as I said in my previous post - this product doesn't just use dx9 , it locks you into using a machine that has this speciffic version and month of dx9. normally , I say hats off - its another great product from tgc, but not this time and definitely not at the prices of the "" "comercial" version. make it where it runs on ANY system with ANY version of dx 9 or any version of dx 10 , it might be worth the price. [the way I see it its just another library or set of components to add to a compiler that works just fine without them. lastly , I dont see MS supporting this product the way they should. They act as if its a third party unsupported install at your own risk kind of thing - its not included in the installation files, not resumeable,ect,... sorry , but I do have to give my honest opinion in this case and like it or not [disaggree or not ] thats my opinion. now when its udpated again , I'll come back and give you another unbiased review of the product.

Sutter Soft
http://www.geocities.com/suttersoft
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Jeff032
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Quote: "add a way to use directx 10, i can't even use this because i have 10 and it needs 9. "


So download DirectX 9, you can have both 9 & 10 installed.

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monotonic
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I haven't got a copy of GDK.NET at the minute so I don't know if this is already there but, is it possible to provide access to the vertex buffer of an object.

The reason for this is because I want to implement progressive mesh functionality in my engine.

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jason p sage
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Directly - I doubt it - but there are vertex buffer commands - lock limb vertex dAta - etc....


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monotonic
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 22:59 Edited at: 20th Feb 2008 23:24
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T'is a shame. Maybe I could create the progressive mesh using managed directx and insert this somehow into GDK.NET.

Will have to wait and see.

Edit: Just noticed you can create a managed ProgressiveMesh object passing a pointer to the constructor of type ID3DXPMesh* pInterop also IntPtr pUnmanagedObject.

Another Edit: There is a function in DarkSDKDisplay.h that contains a function called IDirect3DDevice9* dbGetDirect3DDevice ( void ); and make the .NET version of this function return an IntPtr. If you could add this one please if you could that would be great, even if it's not tested just make it an undocumented command

Sorry about all the edits.

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jason p sage
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 23:45
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Please Please - no more undocumented commands - I'd rather have the docs say what it's supposed to do and say "NOT TESTED"


http://www.jasonpetersage.com/?PAGE=ironinfantry&SECTION=ironinfantry
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monotonic
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 23:50
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Lol I know the felling mate. To be fair though VS.NET does kind of document itself as long as a boiler-plate has been added above the function (Intellisense).

I was just trying ensure this command would get added by not putting to much pressure onto Apex and TGC with documentation etc... Because adding this function should be pretty straight forward.

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monotonic
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Posted: 29th Feb 2008 18:28
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Apex - Mike,

I'm sure your getting annoyed with people asking this but.... what's the ETA on the release of GDK.NET (FREE)

I was hoping to have a play this weekend.

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kBessa
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Posted: 29th Feb 2008 18:44
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You're not alone on this one monotonic. I was also wanting to get my hands on it but...

It will be ready when it gets ready (Reminds me of Duke Nukem Forever, lol).

Let's give'em some more days, I'm pretty sure it won't take that long now.
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monotonic
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Posted: 29th Feb 2008 18:51
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Yeah, I'm sure they are doing their best.

I'm gonna use GDK.NET for my map editor, and GDK(C++) for the actual angine. At the minute I'm nit-picking trying to kill time until I get GDK.NET. There is not much more I can do, or at least want to do until I get it. I don't want to implement a whole load of features in the engine until I can test the ones I have.

'Errors: 153625, Warnings: 71627121'

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Rye
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Posted: 29th Feb 2008 21:33
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Support for widescreen resolutions. 1400x900 etc...

personally, since its for C++ etc.. i'd like to be able to get a handle to the actual object, instead of having to reference them by numbers. eg,

or something like that.
wouldnt be in addition to the number method though. So the old functionality remains.

This way games could truely be object orientated. This would probably require too much recoding to implement though.
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monotonic
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Posted: 29th Feb 2008 21:58
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Quote: "since its for C++ etc.. "


GDK.NET is for C# and VB.NET I'm unsure about managed C++. But, using the current GDK you can get the sObject pointer using sObject* dbGetObject( int iID );. Although, this still would not make GDK truely object orientated, because you would still need to call function in order to perform the GDK related stuff.

The only way to do this would be to write an OO wrapper or use one that has already been created, I think there is a few around the forums. Personally I prefer to write my own, which is suited to my specific needs for the engine.

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jason p sage
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Posted: 1st Mar 2008 00:20
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Agreed - Rye - Apex Definately Is one of the guys who could pull that off - but it might not be in his directives - dunno - I did exactly what your saying for DarkGDK (C++).

Monotonic is right - For the OOP to be really effective you need to wrap everything - however my less than mainstream approach is to still have a backdoor to the low level stuff - when I know exactly what needs to be done and why - without wrapper call overhead.

I Think the way it is + the OOP wrraper is a perfect scenario - but of course allowing users this much potential to wreak havoc might not be good for the masses - but for me - a SORTA power User... I like the "extra" power and options.


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