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FPSC Classic Product Chat / My review on FPSC

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Lionsword
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Posted: 25th May 2008 08:41 Edited at: 25th May 2008 10:46
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Last month, my friend suggested I review this engine, and instead of the usual posting the review on my website, actually post it on the user forums.
He didn't say much else, he offered to pay for it, but $100 (FPSC + Some model packs) is barely pocket change for me.
Note: All of the below is only my opinion.

Looking at the average user around here, I'm going to go ahead and split this into sections so people don't get bored after the second sentence and press the back button.

Ease of use -
FPSC seems to win here. It is possibly the most easy to use game engine I've used yet. Right out of the box you can get used to the engine using only the stock that comes with it.

Graphics -
Unfortunately, you can't do much more. Just about all of the stock sucks. But I'm not going to just criticize the stock models, it is one of the first 10 engines I've reviewed that actually have stock models.
However, the 512 x 512 texture limit is a real killer, considering you can only use one texture per model/segment. So you get Quake 2-quality models.
The lightning is about average, with a good normal mapping shader it would do fine.

The AI (Stock) -
One of the first things that turned me off this engine is when I put an enemy down, and tested the level.
The enemy was a stock thug with a pistol. He fired a round at me, then immediately began attempting to run through walls. After I shot him about three times, he dropped to the floor with an annoyingly bad animation, got back up, ran at me, and fell through the floor.
I figured it was a bug in that AI. So I put down a soldier with a machinegun and some sci-fi genre guy with the same shotgun I was using.
I went into the room, the soldier fired a round at me, attempted to walk through a wall, as the sci-fi guy stared off into space.

Then I realized they all had the same AI script. So I set up a level to test each and every combo of AI scripts.
Almost all seemed to have the same effect of firing a couple rounds, running through the wall.
I then found the combo of SHOOT.FPI and SHOOT.FPI, with a rate of fire of 0, and a cone angle of 90. He actually shot like an extremely determined brainwashed FBI agent.

The FPI scripting -
I eventually gave up with the defaults, and played around with the FPI scripts. The system is great, it is easy to use, and would be powerful if it had more commands to use.
I got the enemy to the point where it would run behind boxes while reloading, pace while shooting at me, and run away at low health.
It wasn't F.E.A.R or Half-life2 or anything, but it worked.

Personal tests -
I decided to build my own enemy, with my own animations, and my own FPI script to see what I could do. I spent about 4 hours building the character in blender and gimp, and used my AI script.
The enemy looked okay visually, it went from Quake 2 quality to Farcry (on low) quality due to the texture limit. He acted like an enemy you'd see in a below-average FPS, but again, that is jus my script.

I also, using some Magic FPS tool or something for FPSC (Found it online, bought it.),which was actually pretty useful, built a room segment consisting of walls, a cieling and a floor. The texture limit again, really killed the appearance.

The physics engine:
The physics are meh-ish, if you understand what I mean. The objects seem like they are in a dream. If you push against a box, you move it slowly, as you'd expect. But once you hit a wall, instead of obeying the laws of physics you suddenly become a tank and it becomes a ball of rubber, meaning it flies off across the room in a random direction.
But at least it isn't like GTA 3's everything-is-a-sphere engine, or Doom 3's if-its-not-a-box-it-cant-move.

Overall -
The stock sucks, but a good modeler/scripter can make a game that would have been a hit in 2002. For 2008-2009, you are boned with FPSC x9. To get Direct X9 Doom 3 (still outdated to 2005) quality games, you pretty much have to have Vista and FPSC X10.


The pros of FPSC:
Extremely easy to use. Drag-and-drop system is great. Even the scripting is ridiculously easy.

The cons of FPSC:
The engine requires way too much to do way too little. Looking at the average FPSC game, I would expect it to recommend an 800mhz Pentium processor and a Geforce 4, and expect a lot less.
It's power isn't good at all, you can make an indoor (Or bad outdoor) no-vehicle weak FPS.

1-5 ratings:

On a scale of one to ten, I'd give this a three.

Good for killing time, but don't expect your games to be a hit, if you even sell a copy of one.


My suggestions:
First of all, and most importantly, bring the texture size way up.
512 x 512 won't cut it. 1024 x 1024 perhaps, or maybe even 2048 x 2048.
Get more power in the scripting. With more commands, any user could get their own car or have their own platforms within an hour.
Physics could use some tweaking on it's rules, and have more abilities. But even slight tweaks could allow for ragdoll physics in x9.
The requirements need to be brought down some, which can be done by simply using things like culling on the stock model. This isn't really an engine problem, but a little more a scare-customers off thing.
Get better shaders. Looking at the default shaders, give the engine some more abilities, and users can specular map their textures almost as fast as they can in Sauerbraten.

Edit: It has just come to my attention that I was wrong on the 512 x 512 texture limit. The model pack 4 models seem to use 1024 x 1024 textures.
Is it possible to use 2048 x 2048 (Due to the inability to use multiple textures on one model)?
Perhaps the stock characters should have higher polygon models.
Apparently, texture size can be easily mistaken after being pasted over a low-polygon model.
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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 25th May 2008 10:50
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That's good, but pretty much all of us know this already. Oh, you seem to hate the 512x512 texture limit, but I do believe that the limit is 1024. Oh, and have you downloaded V109 yet?

Quote: "considering you can only use one texture per model/segment"


I don't think so. Errant's guns all use about five textures.

Quote: "The enemy was a stock thug with a pistol. He fired a round at me, then immediately began attempting to run through walls. After I shot him about three times, he dropped to the floor with an annoyingly bad animation, got back up, ran at me, and fell through the floor.
"


Maybe try actually being creative about your scripts? Shoot.fpi and shoot.fpi won't make killer AI. Use the new Darkai and Darkdestroy script. (they are not actual darkai, but it does the job)

Quote: "I got the enemy to the point where it would run behind boxes while reloading, pace while shooting at me, and run away at low health.
"


Now I want that script!

Oh, and welcome to the forums.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 25th May 2008 11:25
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Wow I can only see The Toasty's post which is quite bizzare seeing as he isn't the topic creator and he has quoted the original post

[center]
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Aertic
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Posted: 25th May 2008 11:34
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Its appolo and new members...

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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 25th May 2008 11:36
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Yeah, that was weird...

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 25th May 2008 11:48
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Lol, You must admit scripting is too weak....

I reccomend a mod called "Ply's Mod" if you want more power in that section, there's also a mod called "EFX" that handles graphical updates like Bloom, Water and better shaders......

Get V1.09 though, it clears up alot of enemies-falling-through-flors and standing twiddling their thumbs while you shoot the hell outta their mates....

I have returned, after 28 days of exile, fear me!
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Dark Jaguar Flame
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Posted: 25th May 2008 15:07
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Maybe you can search before post suggestions etc

Many things you wand and dont like are fixed are availbe soon ad..

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Zdrok
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Posted: 25th May 2008 15:57
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Oh, come on!!

You actually have to use FPSC for a while before reviewing it. I'd give it a 7/10, but when v2 comes out, it'll bump right up to an 8.5/10 depending on how good it is.

Next time, please actually sit down, download FPSC v1.09, play around with it for about 3-4 hours, then review it. How long have you used it anyways?

Sorry if this sounded harsh, but your opinion can change over time, my friend. Welcome to the TGC forums, you may stumble upon posts like this a lot of times.

WarFact
Arriving in FPS Creator v2
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Fluffy
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Posted: 25th May 2008 16:07 Edited at: 25th May 2008 16:10
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Wow you really do know how to make a bad first impression its like you didnt even try to do anything with it. Did you even download an update and try the really nice free models and model packs around here?. So please next time you critisize a brilliant engine think to yourself does anyone care what you think about it!




You just wasted a few seconds of your life reading this signature!
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John Perone
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Posted: 25th May 2008 16:36
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Lionsword,

A good and honest review. You seem to be well versed in modeling, scripting, game creation as a whole. Someone of your experience may find FPSC a little limiting indeed. It's geared more toward the casual, inexperienced user. As a quick level design tool, I've found no better.

As many have mentioned, many of the issues you found have been fixed in the latest updates, and many more features have been added. There is a solid base of dedicated users here, and some of them get defensive when their engine is dissed. Not to worry.

Welcome to the forum.

JP
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 25th May 2008 16:38
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Now, I wouldn't say his engine is perfect, (there is no such thing), but if you actually searched, 80% of your problems would've been solved by getting new updates, better media, and slicker AI scripts from these forums.....

It's a required thing to do research before reviewing anything...

Could you please provide a link to your site? I want to see your other reviews....

I have returned, after 28 days of exile, fear me!
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Lionsword
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Posted: 25th May 2008 22:39
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Notice: My review was based on this FPSC setup on this system after 7 days, 5 hours per day:

FPSC:
FPSC v1.09
Model pack 2, 4, 6, 9, 10

The programs for my models were:
Blender 2.46
Gimp 2.5

System is:
AMD Phenom 9500+
4gb DDR2 PC6700
Geforce 9800 Gx2
Windows XP SP2 was the OS used

Quote: "
Could you please provide a link to your site? I want to see your other reviews....
"

My website is actually private to my business and family, but most of my reviews can be found on IGN.


Quote: "some of them get defensive when their engine is dissed. Not to worry.
"

Yeah, it happens if you review just about anything, people get defensive and often make accusations without any actual backup.

However, it was indeed my mistake to bash an inexistant 512 x 512 limit.

Quote: "
I don't think so. Errant's guns all use about five textures."

Can I get a link to these guns, and is it possible to use multiple textures on a single enemy model?
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Plystire
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Posted: 26th May 2008 00:20
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Quote: "is it possible to use multiple textures on a single enemy model?"


I am having trouble understanding how you mean this question.

Are you wanting to be able to swap between different textures for a model during the game? Or are you wanting to put more than one texture onto the model at the same time?

I have a question for you:

Quote: "Is it possible to use 2048 x 2048 (Due to the inability to use multiple textures on one model)?"


Have you tried it?

A lot of questions can be answered by trial and error.


The one and only,


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puppyofkosh
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Posted: 26th May 2008 00:46
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It is possible, Tatters did it.

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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 26th May 2008 01:40
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Quote: "Can I get a link to these guns, and is it possible to use multiple textures on a single enemy model?"


Uh, MP9/10...

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Orrion Carn
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Posted: 26th May 2008 02:01
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Boy, someone must not like FPSC much.

Quote: "1-5 ratings:

On a scale of one to ten, I'd give this a three."


Quote: "1-5 ratings:"


Ok, 1-5...

Quote: "On a scale of one to ten, I'd give this a three."


How'd we get from 1-5 to 1-10? A 3 out of 10 or 5?

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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 26th May 2008 02:14
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Nice review

Quote: "However, the 512 x 512 texture limit is a real killer, considering you can only use one texture per model/segment"


Wrong on both counts. You can use 1024x1024 textures and multiple textures on entities and segments.

Quote: "The FPI scripting - I eventually gave up with the defaults, and played around with the FPI scripts."


Use the new darkai scripts for FPSC v1.09. There are several good custom ai scripts around the forums.

Quote: "The stock sucks, but a good modeler/scripter can make a game that would have been a hit in 2002"


I don't think most people would mind pulling that off as a portfolio piece or stepping stone to a modern game in FPSC X10.

Quote: "To get Direct X9 Doom 3 (still outdated to 2005) quality games, you pretty much have to have Vista and FPSC X10."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3QQmr-j8Q4

Made using XP and FPSC X9 v1.07

Quote: "On a scale of one to ten, I'd give this a three."


This score would appear to indicate the comments you made regarding FPSC's relevance with stock content, not what is possible to achieve with custom content.

There's no comparison between the quality of work seen in the original FPSC v1 to v1.09 and v2 is due this year with many more engine improvements.

FPSC X10 lacks most of the issues you've experienced out of the box.

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bond1
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Posted: 26th May 2008 02:53 Edited at: 26th May 2008 03:47
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There is no real texture limit, so 2048x2048 is possible: Set "reduce texture" to a value of -1 and it uses the actual texture size, whatever that may be.

And FPSC is actually capable of some pretty cool stuff with a bit of ingenuity. Have a look at some of the mods, and take a look at a recent character I've made which I think is quite cool: The Ice Wizard: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=129909&b=24. You can do a lot with some creative modelling/scripting.

EDIT:

I did an IGN search for "Lionsword" but it didn't turn up anything. Care to share any links? Your rating of 3/10 is really arbitrary and doesn't show what it is relative to. What are you comparing FPSC against? What is the benchmark? Not being defensive, but judging FPSC on it's own merits, it's intended userbase, and pricepoint, I think it deserves a much higher rating. I mean, is there even a product out there that compares to FPSC? I don't know of any. And if anyone even dares to bring up "Silent Walk" I will personally come over to your house and kick you in the nuts.

----------------------------------------
"Your mom goes to college."
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Plystire
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Posted: 26th May 2008 04:44
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Quote: "And if anyone even dares to bring up "Silent Walk" I will personally come over to your house and kick you in the nuts."



Lmfao!!!

Someone say it! I wanna see this.


The one and only,


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puppyofkosh
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Posted: 26th May 2008 04:46
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Well there is Silent Walk...

*Lies on floor in extreme pain

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Zeldar
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Posted: 26th May 2008 05:12 Edited at: 26th May 2008 05:15
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Quote: "The AI"

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=91759&b=25
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=129769&b=23&p=0
Quote: "Can I get a link to these guns?"

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=126691&b=24
http://www.fpscreator.com/pack9.html
http://www.fpscreator.com/pack10.html
Quote: "(Or bad outdoor)"


Made with FPSC X9.
Quote: "no-vehicle weak FPS"

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=128688&b=21
Quote: "I got the enemy to the point where it would run behind boxes while reloading, pace while shooting at me, and run away at low health."

Gimme.
Quote: "It wasn't F.E.A.R or Half-life2 or anything, but it worked."

Didn't they design their own AI? There's a lot of awesome stuff the community has done for FPSC on these forums, so if I were you, I'd check it out(not trying to sound harsh or anything like that).

Signed, Zeldar
.....what?
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Plystire
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Posted: 26th May 2008 06:49
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Nice, Zeldar.

Many of us don't have the patience to hunt down all those threads.


The one and only,


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Lionsword
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Posted: 26th May 2008 10:23
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I now feel embarrassed about model packs 9 & 10.

Looking at the textures on the guns that were hidden in plain sight, the guns do have 4 textures, but they are a shader combo, as seen in many other games.

What I was asking was is it possible to use two different textures two different areas of one model?

Not that it really matters, now seeing that there is no texture real limit (Sorry for my mistake), and looking at all those links from Zeldar (Thanks Zeldar), I am definitely bringing up the rating of this engine, from 3/10-6/10.

Quote: "
Quote: "To get Direct X9 Doom 3 (still outdated to 2005) quality games, you pretty much have to have Vista and FPSC X10."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3QQmr-j8Q4
"

I have to say that is one good Doom 3 copycat, but is far from doom 3 quality. Perhaps with some good real time shaders, it can surpass doom 3.


Using FPSC as it is, would it be possible to write some shaders like the ones found in Sauerbraten? www.sauerbraten.org (Take a look at the newer maps such as metl4 and corruption)
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Rampage
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Posted: 26th May 2008 11:42
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Plus Fpsc was made at least 6 years ago and Is constantly getting better. Version 2 is coming out which will include ragdoll physics, (realistic deaths). So no more crappy death animations!!x9320


Visual Game Studio Express Lead Programmer.
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Fuzz
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Posted: 26th May 2008 12:01
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Quote: "Quote: "And if anyone even dares to bring up "Silent Walk" I will personally come over to your house and kick you in the nuts."


Lmfao!!!

Someone say it! I wanna see this."


Hahahahahaha

Pretty good review though but there are heaps of cool stuff you can do with FPSC

Victory Is Imminent
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s4real
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Posted: 26th May 2008 12:24
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Fpsc is only as good as the person using it, like everything being Games, music and software the basic features or standard presets are going to be plain but put some thought into it and you can create some good stuff.

There some great stuff coming out as in mods,updates and packs, take the time to check them all out but your review is pretty good from a person who just played with it out the box.


Best s4

Sodex Coming soon
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Aaagreen
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Posted: 26th May 2008 12:48
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And throw in a program like 3d worl studio for scenery, and add airmod, and you havev some nice levels running at a playable level.

Formerly Bum Fat Cheese
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 26th May 2008 13:47
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Quote: "hidden in plain sight, "


Huh?

Really, this is meant to be a stepping stone, baby-steps into the Game-Dev world if you like, and it does that great, it's not meant to make the next Half Life/Halo/Doom/Insert other FPS here, it's just something you play around with, at £30, it's cheaper han your average PC game, and has a lot more longevity if you're creative and imaginative enough....

I have returned, after 28 days of exile, fear me!
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Zdrok
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Posted: 26th May 2008 17:08
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Quote: "made at least 6 years ago"

It was started in 2001, which makes it seven years.

WarFact
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=130217&b=25&p=0
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Errant AI
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Posted: 26th May 2008 20:04
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Quote: "Looking at the textures on the guns that were hidden in plain sight, the guns do have 4 textures, but they are a shader combo, as seen in many other games.

What I was asking was is it possible to use two different textures two different areas of one model?"


Minor correction here. While it is true that the weapon entities have a single texture map with shader maps, the first-person-perspective models use several. You'd need to look in gamecore\guns to find those files. Heck, even some of the bone stock weapons like the commando use three maps (gun, magazine and scope).

AFIK, you can have multiple maps on dynamic entities but not static entities. I've yet to see a character with multiple textures but perhaps that has changed recently.

I agree that the lighting and shader capabilities in x9 have a long way to go still. The lighting has come quite far already. In time, I wouldn't be suprised to see custom shaders being able to be used.

As an overall product, I don't think there is an easier tool for prototyping a concept. It is ideal for designers/artists wanting to create a look-feel experience to use as a pitch aid when looking for VC to use in large-scale development.

The current batch of mods can not be underestimated either. I truly think FPSC is entering a golden age.
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Orrion Carn
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Posted: 26th May 2008 21:18 Edited at: 26th May 2008 21:19
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Quote: "I truly think FPSC is entering a golden age."


Word.

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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 27th May 2008 01:48 Edited at: 27th May 2008 02:06
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So, you used it how long before making a judgement?

Thanks for sharing your unbiased opinion though, even if it was a bit premature.

Quote: "On a scale of one to ten, I'd give this a three."

Well, that is higher than I would rate your review. (just kidding)
Especially after you admit its ease of use and the fact it is one of the few offering loads of stock media.
Not many people find the scripting rediculously easy as you said except a few of us, so that is refreshing.

You keep playing around with FPSC, and the more you discover about pushing it to its limits, the more you will appreciate it.

Did I overlook your mention of which version you used?
I hope you used the latest version for your tests, because there are a lot of useful conditions/actions that have been added.

Quote: " I truly think FPSC is entering a golden age."

Ahh, the words of an experienced FPSC user.

Quote: "Fpsc is only as good as the person using it"

The truth is self evident.

Quote: "Nice, Zeldar"

Yeah dude, very nice.

Don't forget to visit Conjured Entertainment

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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 27th May 2008 02:58
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I personally like his review. But like someone said people are going to get defensive because they use this engine and not an engine that actually is better. I'm not saying FPSC sucks, I really enjoy FPSC. It's great for a hobby. But the games it can create are not next generation.

One thing I didn't like about the review was how much you focused on the texture size.
Quote: "
but $100 (FPSC + Some model packs) is barely pocket change for me."

If that's the case, could you buy me Torque? Lol. And maybe a new computer.

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Dr Parsnips
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Posted: 27th May 2008 03:27
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hmm, i see all the fan boys come out with there pitch forks and torches, ready to burn this review and its author lol just kidding, but seriously i can definatly see why he said alot of the things in his review. We have all felt them at some point, i know i have, but with its constant updates and dedicated user base FPSC has alot of hidden (or perhaps not with all the mods coming out out) potential. Its easy to see this as someone slaggin off fpsc but in reality he is giving an unbiased view, and he said some very encouraging stuff, like comparing it to 2002 games (heck i would settle for 1998 game under my belt! ) ... so in short, i agree with his review but i know the engine and the community well enough to know that fpsc is alot better when effort is applied.

HMMMMMMM
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Lionsword
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Posted: 27th May 2008 07:08
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Quote: "If that's the case, could you buy me Torque? Lol. And maybe a new computer."

Actually...torque was another one of the engines I reviewed...you don't want to read the review.
Quote: "hmm, i see all the fan boys come out with there pitch forks and torches"

I've seen a lot worse...like when I reviewed Halo 3 as a game. People did not like me bashing halo 3. It was so bad, an IGN Moderator got kicked for trying to ban me for being honest about halo 3.


Quote: "I really enjoy FPSC. It's great for a hobby."
That it is...my friend read my review, and said: "You were wrong about the texture limit...but damn man, don't release my name or I'll be hung by the fanboys.", after which he sat back down on his computer and continued messing around on FPSC.

Personally, my favorite hobby engine would be the Sauerbraten engine, which has, after an hour a day for a month turned into an FPS with all of my media, my modified Cube2 engine, and a pretty fun game in my opinion. It's still got a lot of work to be done before I release it as a free FPS.
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 27th May 2008 16:06 Edited at: 27th May 2008 16:15
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Quote: "hmm, i see all the fan boys come out with there pitch forks and torches, ready to burn this review and its author lol just kidding,"

Dang it!
I forgot my stake!



I just think that 3 out of 10 is way too low.

FPSC should get 3 points just for the LOW PRICE and its ROYALTY FREE LICENSE.

By the time you add the EASE OF USE, ABILITY TO EASILY IMPORT CUSTOM MEDIA, LOADS OF STOCK MEDIA (That you CAN use in your released games!), FPI SCRIPTING LANGUAGE, and its other great features; you are quickly past the 10.

Quote: "my favorite hobby engine would be the Sauerbraten engine"

It looks interesting, but it is a shame about the licensing of the media huh?
How easy is that to use for beginners?
I didn't notice a nice GUI where users can paint their maps.

Don't forget to visit Conjured Entertainment

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Aertic
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Posted: 27th May 2008 17:08
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Quote: ""my favorite hobby engine would be the Sauerbraten engine""


I love it too.
Quote: "
How easy is that to use for beginners?"


Actualy in someparts its not, one: a knowlage of C++ or C# is needed to compile and make games with it, as in Bat files, and also it has extra features in it not described by Wouter but users use them features to there advantage and it can get a little messy yet brillaint, infact I would say saur is a bit better than fpsc, its not just drawing blocks, it more that that.

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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 27th May 2008 23:43
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Sauerbraten engine hey.

I once checked this out a while back but must have been the original cube edition because I've just checked out a video from the latest assassin edition and it looks a touch better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bdhQRuVhkk&feature=related

I was surprised to find the engine is free to download and use.

If it only requires some code to compile games then I might have to give this a go myself.

No way is this going to have the same ease of use as FPSC though.

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Dude232
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Posted: 27th May 2008 23:57
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the review was truthful but what version are you using and you should look at some gammes made with it... one actually got on the market

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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 28th May 2008 00:22
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Quote: "Actually...torque was another one of the engines I reviewed...you don't want to read the review."

I'm assuming you didn't like Torque then lol. I don't know anything about Torque I just always hear it's an amazing engine.

Quote: "Personally, my favorite hobby engine would be the Sauerbraten engine"

I tried it but I didn't know what I was doing lol.

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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 28th May 2008 01:05 Edited at: 28th May 2008 01:13
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Quote: "I'm assuming you didn't like Torque then lol. I don't know anything about Torque I just always hear it's an amazing engine."


Torque is not amazing. Download and play the orc village demo. It was surprisingly bad considering it was supposed to be a showcase demo.

Quote: "I tried it but I didn't know what I was doing lol."


I've just spent the last 30 minutes going ahead and checking out the cube 2 engine video tutorials. Sounds like Airslide's missus is into game dev also.

http://cube.wikispaces.com/Videos

Check out the first 'getting started' video. I think even I can deal with that. I've downloaded the free engine and documentation and looks promising.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8e96rE0ae8

Don't think I'll be putting FPSC back on the shelf just yet though although I couldn't help noticing the nice bumpmapping on the wall in the default map shown whilst she starts setting up a new map.

Even though this engine requires a little coding, there appears to be enough stock scripts etc to get up and running quite quickly. I couldn't help being impressed with the way you can make custom terrain in the editor so easily too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPrJhhBoHrU&feature=related

This looks way better than Torque and the likes of the A6 engine. I don't think it will beat FPSC for the things it excels in but it might just be the next step up on the ladder for people willing to do their homework.
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Toasty Fresh
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Location: In my office, making poly-eating models.
Posted: 28th May 2008 01:10
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Quote: "People did not like me bashing halo 3."


Say no more.

FlashPack!
Buy it NOW!
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=122152&b=24
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Lionsword
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Posted: 28th May 2008 07:16
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Quote: "
No way is this going to have the same ease of use as FPSC though."

It isn't as easy as FPSC coding wise, but I actually find it easier to create maps. All you need for a wall is a texture, not a texture and a segment model. To test the map in Sauerbraten you press E to get out of edit mode, and if you want to do a full shaded test, go to editing-->lights-->Calclight (w/e here).

Nomad Soul, that video is showing off Assassin edition, which is the latest on the download site, but not the latest CVS.
I'm using the latest CVS (Finished getting 3 hours ago.), and one nifty new feature allowing you to easily set texture scales. Basically meaning you can have 8192 x 8192 shaded textures scaled how you want them if you had the patience to make one.

One of the really interesting things about Sauerbraten is not just can you edit levels in-game, but people can edit levels together over the internet if they wanted to.

Quote: "I'm assuming you didn't like Torque then lol. I don't know anything about Torque I just always hear it's an amazing engine."

By people who have never used the engine, maybe.


Quote: "How easy is that to use for beginners?"


Once you figure out to press E, you pretty much figure the rest out.

Quote: "It looks interesting, but it is a shame about the licensing of the media huh?"

Not really, if you can make your own textures and know how to use a 3d program like Blender you're set. If not...well, then you'd better learn.
Even if I were allowed to use that default media, I wouldn't. The smallest texture I have in my sauerbraten build is 1024 x 1024.
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Kilgore
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Posted: 28th May 2008 14:08
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Interesting points. As others have said, I think FPSC x9 has to be appreciated for what it is. If it was capable of producing cutting edge, commercial quality games out of the box, then developers wouldn't spend huge money on licensing engines, or developing them.

FPSC is easy to use, quick to learn, and offers some fairly impressive results with customisation. These things are of key importance for people undertaking one-man projects.
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Aaagreen
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Posted: 28th May 2008 15:06
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FPSC doesn deserve 3/10. It comes with:

Good lightmapping
A skeleton to rig up your characters
AI (It may not be good, but at least it has it)
The ability to import your own characters, weapons and objects
Using Airmod, you can place 50 enemies in a room at a playable frame-rate
Very good stock media and chracters

FPSC (As an engine) Deserves at least 6-7/10.

Formerly Bum Fat Cheese
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RedneckRambo
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Location: Worst state in USA... California
Posted: 28th May 2008 17:16 Edited at: 28th May 2008 17:17
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Quote: "FPSC (As an engine) Deserves at least 6-7/10."

FPSC as an engine deserves 3. With what it comes with deserves like a 9 or 10. Not the actual engine itself.

Quote: "Download and play the orc village demo."

I did that a long time ago. I didn't think it was bad. It wasn't anything special though.

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Aertic
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Posted: 28th May 2008 19:58
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Oh, and lionsword, whats you're saur Mp name?

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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 28th May 2008 20:44 Edited at: 28th May 2008 21:09
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@Jenkins

Saying FPSC as an engine scores 3/10 is ridiculous. Would you say that Beyond Life or Eldora were 3/10 games, I wouldn't.

@Lionsword

Quote: "It isn't as easy as FPSC coding wise, but I actually find it easier to create maps."


I love the way you can manipulate geometry and texture with such ease and control. Its difficult to comprehend how you get from a plane of cubes to some of the insane architecture I've seen though.

Quote: "To test the map in Sauerbraten you press E to get out of edit mode, and if you want to do a full shaded test, go to editing-->lights-->Calclight (w/e here)."


Being able to build your map in real time 3D and then just switch between edit mode and single player mode like that is awesome. The editor options GUI looks so cool and even the console commands are no worse than entering cheats in other PC FPS games.

I understand the 'calclight' command also deals with texture mapping for things like bump and specular maps when combined with commands like '/texture n (filename) x,y' or '/texture s (filename) x,y'. Is that how you apply additional texture maps to surfaces because thats my main reason for wanting to use this engine? The texture effects I've seen look brilliant.

Also I saw dynamic shadows in action when some big creature started swinging a mace around and shadows were being cast realistically.

Quote: "Nomad Soul, that video is showing off Assassin edition, which is the latest on the download site, but not the latest CVS."


Ok thanks. I downloaded the 'assassin edition' from the website. How do I get the very latest version?

Quote: "One of the really interesting things about Sauerbraten is not just can you edit levels in-game, but people can edit levels together over the internet if they wanted to."


This is getting crazy. I watched the ID software ID Tech5 demonstration and they announced this would be a feature for their latest technology. I thought that was an exclusive! LOL

Quote: "Not really, if you can make your own textures and know how to use a 3d program like Blender you're set. If not...well, then you'd better learn."


I'm using Milkshape which supports MD2 and MD3 file formats used by the engine. I believe that even MD5 files may now be supported by both aswell.

Basically, as much as I love FPSC, support it and enjoy using it. I've had a rather sharp thorn in my side for a while now regarding the lack of shader support. Its unthinkable to work so hard on producing a game in this day and age that doesn't allow decent looking bump and specular mapping.

If Sauerbraten can deliver such good shader support in XP and directx 9 from a free game engine then I'm in. The fact you can easily port games over to Linux and Mac OSX with it is also a big plus if you try to make something commercial.

FPSC has helped me learn skills like modelling, seamless texturing, character rigging, scripting etc and I still regard it to be a very good product, especially in terms of value for money and the community here are great.
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Ocho Geek
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Posted: 28th May 2008 22:11
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Quote: "However, the 512 x 512 texture limit is a real killer, considering you can only use one texture per model/segment. So you get Quake 2-quality models."


there is no texture size limit, and you CAN set multiple textures to an object (if you know how :p)

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Lionsword
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Posted: 28th May 2008 22:30
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Quote: "Oh, and lionsword, whats you're saur Mp name?"

I usually go around as 42. You'll usually find me on Assassin edition until the CVS actually gets fully released.

There is a good tutorial using a cross-platform program called SmartCVS.
http://www.the-conquerors.net/clanpage/index.php?site=static&staticID=10

The tutorial says it is for mac, but it is exactly the same for Linux.
Dunno about windows though.

Note: Before someone asks, I used Windows to test FPSC, and I use Kubuntu for Sauerbraten, on the same computer. It dual boots.

Quote: "
there is no texture size limit, and you CAN set multiple textures to an object (if you know how :p)"

Err...you probably should have read the first page before posting that, as I already know. Thanks anyway.

Quote: "
This is getting crazy. I watched the ID software ID Tech5 demonstration and they announced this would be a feature for their latest technology. I thought that was an exclusive! LOL"


ID Tech 5 is open GL based, cross-platform, with a dynamic changeable world. Hrmm...Open GL based, can be used in linux, and you can edit the world most likely in-game.
Sounds like ID Tech 5 was either inspired by sauerbraten, or possibly is a modified version of sauerbraten.
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