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FPSC Classic Product Chat / V111 BETA - Public Test

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107295
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Posted: 16th Jun 2008 16:35
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STILL.DOESN'T.WORK.

Sending EMAIL!

One day, I threw a potato... AND IT HIT THE CEILING, like, HOW AWESOME
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Jaeg
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Posted: 16th Jun 2008 17:17
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I haven't tried beta 2 but I do have to say that beta 1 did increase my framerate. My new computer stayed around 34 fps and my older but still good computer was 24 to 34. I did a much hard test on my older computer with a decent sized level consisting of three segment types visible at one time. Six of bond1's Blade Seekers in a group once you start the level. There is a group of three of bond1's zombies 1 and 2 with the occasional zombie scattered about. And on the other side there was 4 shroudlings. The wost fps was with the seekers. But the rest of the time it was about 24 to 34.

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lukex10
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Posted: 16th Jun 2008 19:45
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hey, yeah build portals takes like 1 min and 20.01 seconds for me.

new pc for chrismas is nvidia 8800gtx ADM 4800 2.5ghz 2gb ram 250 gb hard drive
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Plystire
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Posted: 16th Jun 2008 22:38
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Hey Lee,

I was just wondering if we would be able to drop weapons that were either picked up from the player's start marker or from previous levels. If that's not possible, then the fixed "playerdrop" is kind of a bummer.


The one and only,


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KISTech
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 00:56
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Loaded Beta2 and rebuilt scifigame. The levels load MUCH quicker now.

However the frame rate is still very low if I leave Dynamic Lights checked. I was getting between 5 and 8 FPS before I gave up on it.


Machine Specs:

- P4 2.8GHz
- 1GB RAM
- GeForce 7600 GS (512MB RAM)
- Windows XP SP2

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game freak16
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 02:59
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Are these features going to be added to x10 sometime? I use both x9 and x10 and it seems like x9 has more features now than x10.

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Jaeg
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 03:02
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If you want to really test the fps make up a new level don't use ones made with previous versions.

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KISTech
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 18:41
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This might sound strange, but I would think that the map file wouldn't have any effect on the outcome of the compiled exe. It's just storing map data right? So the changes to the engine should only effect the compiled result of that map.

At least I would think so. Lee? Any thoughts on this?

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Jaeg
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 21:28
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I think they might have changed how some parts of the map file work. I noticed a difference when using an old map file and a newer one.

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Plystire
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Posted: 18th Jun 2008 12:07
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Lee, do you thin at some point you could add in proper collision for larger character entities? Mainly the wider ones. They don't collide very well with walls. That way we could have some more interesting monsters, like bosses! .... and other things.


The one and only,


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Silver Eye Productions
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Posted: 18th Jun 2008 14:24
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When i haved my OLD fps creator, the "bulding portals" took 10 minutes to load, and just with a SIMPLE ROOM

That was a bug.

http://www.geocities.com/saturnjupiter28
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KISTech
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Posted: 18th Jun 2008 21:52
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Ok. I've found 2 bugs that I can actually reproduce.

I started with a blank level. I laid out the ground from the stock ground tile and covered the entire level. Then enclosed the entire level on the outside perimiter with the stock large wall.

I placed the player start in the upper left corner, deleted the destination directory, and built the game.

Bug 1: The upper wall and the left wall are visible and seem fine. The lower and right walls are invisible. Collision was created for them, but the wall segments don't show.

Bug 2: As I'm walking around the player drops slightly and is stuck. Can't jump, can't walk out of it.

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Flatlander
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Posted: 18th Jun 2008 22:37
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You mean you covered the entire level? Every single square of the available map? That's pretty big and I don't think it was meant to be used like that. I was going to try and recreate this "bug" myself but I think I'll let Lee do that.

** We are not Alone **
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KISTech
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Posted: 18th Jun 2008 22:41 Edited at: 18th Jun 2008 22:41
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Yup. Every square.

It only takes a minute to walk from one corner to the other. It's not THAT big..

In fact, I wish it could be bigger. (don't go there..)

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Flatlander
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Posted: 18th Jun 2008 22:53 Edited at: 18th Jun 2008 23:00
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OK, I won't go there.

When you are looking at game building and some of the issues with large outdoor areas then that is probably too big of an area.

I did an 8 x 9 area and had no problems with any part of the wall disappearing. I will create an are twice the size and see what that does.

As far as getting stuck, I'm afraid that has been an issue for a long time. However, because of the size of the area there may be other reasons why the player got stuck. Try this when the player gets stuck: Press the "c" key to make the player crouch and then try to move him out of the the area he is stuck in. Most of the time he won't get stuck in the same place the next time you move there. If the player gets stuck in a wall then no he can't get out. The player stuck scenario is very hard to reproduce actually. At least I can never reproduce it because the next time I play the game there won't be that problem. Go figure.

ADDENDUM #1

I have no problems with a 16 x 18 sized area. OK so I'll go the limit.

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KISTech
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Posted: 18th Jun 2008 23:04 Edited at: 18th Jun 2008 23:19
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I suspect it may work if I move the walls in just 1 square. I just wanted to point out the issue.

That's disappointing to hear that the "stuck" thing has been around for a while. I've made 2 maps so far that covered most of the available area and was able to get the stuck problem on both maps.

Oh, and just a little annoying thing. Why does the editor have to "reload" the map every time it builds the game?

[edit]
Nope, just moving it in 1 square didn't help.

File attached.

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Flatlander
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Posted: 18th Jun 2008 23:09 Edited at: 18th Jun 2008 23:26
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I placed the ground on the whole map area and the walls on the outer edge. Yes, the bottom boundary wall and the right side boundary wall are invisible. I'm not sure how large you can make this before they become invisible. One would have to keep making it smaller until you get to that point. I do know that it can be as large as 16 x 18.


EDIT:

Sorry I kept editing the above but I was hoping it would be quick enough. BTW, I did not find myself getting stuck in any part of the map. Of course, I didn't walk around for very long and I am sure I never covered every square inch of the ground.

** We are not Alone **
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KISTech
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Posted: 18th Jun 2008 23:26 Edited at: 19th Jun 2008 00:45
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I'm testing a theory now that the lower and right walls have to have something in the square behind them to show up, thus they can't be placed on the outside edge.

[edit]
That did it. For the lower and right sides you can't place a wall on the outer edge. It's just a hunch but I wonder if you were able to place the camera off the right edge and watch as the level starts up, if the walls would fall.

Anyway, that seems to be what is happening. If you don't place a ground tile for the wall to sit on, it wont show up on those two sides of the map, even though I actually placed the walls from the adjacent tile that already had a ground tile.

New map attached.

It just occured to me that if the wall could "fall through" because the adjacent tile didn't have anything in it, I wonder if that might have something to do with the occasional "stuck" problem.

[edit2] Ok, so maybe they didn't fall. It occured to me that they probably wouldn't be set up as physics objects affected by gravity..

Random weirdness is so much fun to track down..

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KISTech
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Posted: 18th Jun 2008 23:41
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Quote: "I do know that it can be as large as 16 x 18."


I want 2,000 x 2,000 so I can make a level of New York City.

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bkinsman
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Posted: 19th Jun 2008 01:39 Edited at: 19th Jun 2008 01:40
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ok i must admit that would be cool KISTech, i would love to see that sort of map. lol. but it is very unlikely that that will happen, FPSC can barely cope with what it already has, so unless Lee has a sudden brain storm and figures out how to completely stop the decrease in frame rate and can develop the engine so it supports that much. You aren't going to get that sort of map, the whole frame rate problem is been going on for a while now, and i understand that we are getting more and more advanced technologically, but that sort of feature won't be around for a few years, (in fact make that several years) lol.

Like i said KISTech that would be really cool though if we could.

P.S. i wasn't having a go i was just stating the facts. lol. I hope i am right in my assumptions lol.

BJKDAW
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KISTech
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Posted: 19th Jun 2008 02:29
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To be honest I don't know enough about the engine to say one way or the other, but I've made some pretty good looking levels in DBPro that are fairly large. (2000x2000) The frame rate begins to drop only when I start adding trees and shrubs.. I managed to get some significant gains by instancing though.

Anyway, FPSC seems to work ok. I'll likely have to release two versions. One shader enabled and one not, just so the option is available for those with weaker computer configurations.

It seems like a lot of fun either way.

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Jo Jo Monkey
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Posted: 19th Jun 2008 06:12
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What's more important with FPSC, Core 2 Quad processor or a Geforce 8800. The reason I'm asking is because I'm thinking about buying a labtop with a core 3 quad processor, but it will only have like a geforce 8600gt in it.
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Thraxas
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Posted: 19th Jun 2008 11:55
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Get a Desktop PC instead of a laptop... My laptop has 'issues' with FPSC whereas my Desktop <3 FPSC

[center]
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bkinsman
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Posted: 19th Jun 2008 14:07
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@ Jo jo monkey: Core 3 quad?
Quote: "I'm thinking about buying a labtop with a core 3 quad processor"


BJKDAW
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Scurvy Lobster
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Posted: 19th Jun 2008 15:03
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Thraxas: guess you're unlucky. There is no logical reason why a laptop should be worse than a desktop pc, and my laptop runs FPSC fine.

But hey, this is not a thread for discussing that sort of stuff. Let's get back to the subject of V1.11 beta testing.
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Satchmo
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Posted: 19th Jun 2008 15:18 Edited at: 19th Jun 2008 15:18
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Quote: "There is no logical reason why a laptop should be worse than a desktop pc, and my laptop runs FPSC fine."


Yes there is, a laptop is underclocked for heat and stability reasons, whilst a pc is not.

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 19th Jun 2008 17:06
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I tried the WA1 level with V111 BETA2 and it worked fine for me, screenshot attached. Can you make a screenshot of what you see from your starting position to the 'disappearing walls' ensuring you capture the whole screen so I can see the version number in the bottom right corner, thanks.

"Small, smart and running around the legs of dinosaurs to find enough food to survive, bedroom coders aren't extinct after all "
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bkinsman
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Posted: 19th Jun 2008 20:23
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wow that sort of level still running at 38 fps i am impressed.

BJKDAW
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KISTech
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Posted: 19th Jun 2008 21:21
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I know I've downloaded and updated to Beta2, but my screenie says it's version 111001. Hmmm..

Anyway, here's the screenshot. All I did was remove the wall from the right side where I had it one square in (like the lower wall is) and put the wall on the outside edge. So in this map only the right wall is missing. Doing what I did on the lower wall is what overcomes the issue.

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KISTech
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Posted: 19th Jun 2008 21:22
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..and here's the map that made that screenshot.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 20th Jun 2008 04:48
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Quote: "Thraxas: guess you're unlucky. There is no logical reason why a laptop should be worse than a desktop pc, and my laptop runs FPSC fine.

But hey, this is not a thread for discussing that sort of stuff. Let's get back to the subject of V1.11 beta testing. "


No I'm not unlucky it runs on my laptop but it crashes all too often but it's not a problem as it works great on my Desktop PC... BUT I think you'll find many people with laptops would have problems, mainly to do with integrated graphics cards. Also even dedicated graphics are not up to the standard of graphics cards on a desktop PC...

My saying get a desktop wasn't just in reference to FPSC, however. Even if you get a top of the line gaming laptop you're wasting your money in my opinion... With no option to upgrade easily a laptop will become obsolete very quickly...

Anyway... I haven't encountered any problems with the newest beta yet...

[center]
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KISTech
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Posted: 20th Jun 2008 19:16
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Ok, got upgraded properly to Beta2. I guess I dreamt that I did the upgrade or something..

Loaded up the map I attached in my last post and it's got the same thing. The wall placed on the outer edge of the right side doesn't show up.

Image attached.

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 20th Jun 2008 19:40
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Confirmed and fixed for V111 BETA3, thanks for the effort!

"Small, smart and running around the legs of dinosaurs to find enough food to survive, bedroom coders aren't extinct after all "
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icycold 2367
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Posted: 20th Jun 2008 21:28
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I dont know if this is a glitch or not(It's been on all the updates ive done) but occasionaly when I undo something I place the whole entire section where the entity, segment floor/wall/ceiling etc gets deleted to. You don't really need a map just place a entity and then click undo.
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 03:51
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UNDO only works on segment changes, not entity edits.

"Small, smart and running around the legs of dinosaurs to find enough food to survive, bedroom coders aren't extinct after all "
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icycold 2367
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 06:19
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Oh sorry lol just trying to help =)
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Evan Moore
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 09:33
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My frame rate dropped from 28-33 to 23-28 and for some reason I could no longer pick up dropped enemy weapons (In the previous version I set it to allow the player to be able to pick them up).
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Gunn3r
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 09:35
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Did you add anything into the map? That could have an effect on the FPS as well.


Gunn3r Games
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icycold 2367
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 12:04
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This time I think I found a glitch I had this problem and it was fixed for a while it might be the lighting though i'll attach the map. All I did was open the map added a couple lights and went to test game and once it got to saving and optimising universe it got the fpsc game has stopped working then, the general error.
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Ertlov
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 15:44 Edited at: 21st Jun 2008 15:45
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Don`t know how, but this beta is the frist version where I don`t get "Error Debug 0 0" Errors when building a really huge, complex map...

However, Model Pack 9 and 10 weapons are not working properly anymore

Support the efforts of Homegrown Games! Don`t let us starve!
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 18:29
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Aahhh, you need to lower the number of sounds in their FPE to about 4 or 5 I think then.....

That bug's come up quite a bit in both updates and 3rd Party mods......

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KISTech
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2008 01:06
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Quote: "Confirmed and fixed for V111 BETA3, thanks for the effort!"


No problem.

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Plystire
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2008 02:39
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Does anyone know if characters still act strangely when you give them an alt-texture?

@CG:

The three largest mods have it fixed. S4Real's mod also has it fixed, I believe.


The one and only,


Whosoever says, "Don't sweat the small stuff," is obviously not a programmer.
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2008 04:14
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Hi Evan Moore + Ertlov,

If you are having issues you would like resolving for BETA3, please provide a step by step on how I can reproduce the bug you have reported, and ideally an FPM level which uses default media where possible. Thanks.

"Small, smart and running around the legs of dinosaurs to find enough food to survive, bedroom coders aren't extinct after all "
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ASTECH
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2008 05:01
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I used to get 38 average with 1.09 and now I'm getting 7-14.
What happened? It shredded my frame rate. And to use Bond's zombies
and get no error... i have to use this version. Help me Lee.
The framerate is worse than V1 for me. Ehetyz said the same.

Astek



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icycold 2367
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I think this error might be a vista or a error on my part, but i'll attach the stock gun an a level using it in a rar for you. Whenever I play if I open the sound file's in Window's Media Player, Itune's, or goldwave sound editor they work fine, but when I go into fpsc all of my gun sound's quit working for some strange reason. I would like any way you can to fix this. I'll attach a video so you can see what i'm doing. It uses the default start marker, colt .45(stock one but is updated with hand's), 3x3 Bunker Fighting area low segment, yellow light marker, and the light that I call the bunker light from the entity's for ww2 it's in ww2->wall furniture->light_e, and lastly the mas36 and mp40 with a entity that shoots me to show their sounds work. The weirdest part is that it's only my gun sounds that don't work. This would be really appreciated if you could help i'm going to show all of my setting's to so you can see everything in it. This will be zipped in a .zip file named BugGlitchOnFPSCVersion1.11 so you know it's correct. Lastly the video as you'll notice is made with a unregistered hypercam 2. Sorry forgot to put the lights in so the room is very, very dark. If you open the file yourself though use the yellow light its what I normally use. The sound might be my computer though, tell me what you hear because I only hear static. Also the video is about 6 minute's long so before you start it grab some chips and a soda and sit down.

The Official FPS Creator Tips and Tricks Guide By - Nickydude
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Ehetyz
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2008 15:15
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Quote: "I used to get 38 average with 1.09 and now I'm getting 7-14.
What happened? It shredded my frame rate. And to use Bond's zombies
and get no error... i have to use this version. Help me Lee.
The framerate is worse than V1 for me. Ehetyz said the same.

Astek"


Yeah, first I thought it was the new zombie models, but I removed them and the framerate is still absolutely hideous (Using 1.10). I'm talking from 38 avg on the 1.08 to 18-20, in a level with less than 400 static entities and very little dynamic ones. Now, on 1.08 I was able to make a level with 1000 models in it and keep the framerate above 30, so not being able to have acceptable frame rates even on a small, simple level is pretty aggravating.
It seems to have something to do with the portals. I checked the polygon amounts, and it has no relation to the frame rate. It just chugs without any consistency whatsoever.



-Astek Games Developer-
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Scene Commander
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2008 15:55
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I would agree about the FPS, v1.09 was running my levels at around 27-32fps, since v1.10 I'm only seeing around 22fps, although I have seen some improvement by rebuilding levels.

Quote: "Does anyone know if characters still act strangely when you give them an alt-texture?"


Sometimes I've noticed that the alt-texture doesn't seem to be applied when you switch.
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107295
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2008 16:18
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Argh, I have reinstalled it and have manually entered my stats into userdetails.ini and it STILL WONT build GAME.

One day, I threw a potato... AND IT HIT THE CEILING, like, HOW AWESOME
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ASTECH
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2008 16:21
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To be more accurate... I closed everything besides FPSC and I got a
22. I don't know what it is really. I could hit 38 before and it was great. But sometimes with a build I'll hit 30... then others, only 18-22. It seems to be inconsistent.

Astek



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