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3 Dimensional Chat / My first Organic/character model

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Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 27th Feb 2009 22:31 Edited at: 25th Apr 2009 17:30
Well, Its based of the doom 3 hellknight (kinda by the legs) and i would say its my second but my first was just practise...
Images:





Wire:



Done in Autodesk 3DS MAX.
Also havent done the head yet,
C.C Welcome!
Asteric
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Posted: 27th Feb 2009 22:58
looks real good for a first go

Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 27th Feb 2009 23:04 Edited at: 28th Feb 2009 19:20
Thanks : D anyone else like ?

The Next
Web Engineer
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Posted: 1st Mar 2009 00:25 Edited at: 1st Mar 2009 00:29
Can you fix the image embed codes should be



Then i can give feedback

sprite
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Posted: 1st Mar 2009 00:44
You seem to have an odd deform on the legs in the second pic. Also the croch looks a little sharp.

Looks like the back of the legs have been pulled back too far.

I'll add something later on.
The Next
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Posted: 1st Mar 2009 21:06
Looks good

Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2009 08:37
Thanks, and sorry for the late replys i was away at weekend.

Azunaki
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2009 09:48
it looks good i want too see how well you can do a head(With detail)
Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2009 18:13 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2009 21:45
I'll be working on some marine character soon, or something like that but he will have a detailed head.
and thanks for the coments

EDIT: Any ideas for a 'humantype' character? Thanks

Azunaki
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2009 02:49
lol well you could always just do a marine. (or a villager)
Azunaki
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2009 02:49
and what are you using to model.
Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2009 08:20
3ds max 2009, Also i may do a marine.

=Acid=
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2009 11:07 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2009 11:07
I think you should work on your anatomy alot more before getting into modeling other various characters. I would suggest modeling a naked male and try to get the anatomy right. Getting that nailed down first will instantly help with modeling other characters because you already know how big ,small ,long or short there arms should be. Also working off a human reference is much better than working off nothing. Have a look at the site 3d.sk, even though it's a pay for site, the references are directly for artist and they help ALOT.
Red Eye
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2009 15:48
looking really good DEMONAIR

Quote: "I think you should work on your anatomy alot more before getting into modeling other various characters. I would suggest modeling a naked male and try to get the anatomy right. Getting that nailed down first will instantly help with modeling other characters because you already know how big ,small ,long or short there arms should be. Also working off a human reference is much better than working off nothing. Have a look at the site 3d.sk, even though it's a pay for site, the references are directly for artist and they help ALOT."


i made one male, and there out I model my creatures, by deforming it in blender lol


Red Eye - The Game: Work In Progress - W.I.P. Red Eye Productions
Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2009 19:06 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2009 19:06
By 'marine' im going to make a male character, get the anatomy right, then maybe add to it with like helmets, and stuff that a marine would have.

And thanks for the kind words

Alucard94
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2009 19:30
Smoothing something never makes it look good.


Alucard94, the member of the future of the past.
Dared1111
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2009 20:13
Could you fix the links to be IMG???

I hate those Vimax ads.

Still looks good, but the smoothing makes it look so unreal. Cut out the smoothing.
Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2009 21:08
It looks even more unreal without smoothing...

Heres a quick W.I.P:

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Alucard94
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2009 21:23
Quote: "It looks even more unreal without smoothing..."

Then you're not doing something right.


Alucard94, the member of the future of the past.
Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2009 21:59
Without smoothing. and also i was following this tutorial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kZpeZ1O8So

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=Acid=
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2009 22:06 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2009 22:06
Actually smoothing is very important. It obviously doesn't make it look realistic at a stage like this, but obviously having it on will not make it look faceted and will save the extra polys instead of having to keep subdividing for example the arms or legs. It's of course essential to have the whole model as well set to one smoothing group for placement of Baked out Normal and Ao maps from a high res.
Alucard94
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2009 22:13
Quote: "Actually smoothing is very important. It obviously doesn't make it look realistic at a stage like this, but obviously having it on will not make it look faceted and will save the extra polys instead of having to keep subdividing for example the arms or legs. It's of course essential to have the whole model as well set to one smoothing group for placement of Baked out Normal and Ao maps from a high res."

We're talking of smoothing as in subdividing, not as in smoothing the normals.


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Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2009 22:17
Oh, soo you dont mean smoothing as in 'meshsmooth' ?

Alucard94
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2009 22:29
Yes I do.


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Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2009 22:46 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2009 22:49
Oh, Does this mean my model is bad because i added a smooth modifier ?

Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2009 22:57 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2009 22:58
Sorry double post.

=Acid=
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Posted: 4th Mar 2009 05:32
It's perfectly fine with the smooth modifier. It's best to have it turned of while your modeling, makes it much easier to sort the mesh dynamics out. It's not a problem. You don't even have to have the smooth modifier on at all as well. You can just go to polygon mode, then select the faces that you want smooth, in this case the whole mesh,so just highlight the whole thing. Scroll down on the right where the selection bar is and there are lot of boxes with numbers in them. Just set it to 1.
Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 4th Mar 2009 17:09 Edited at: 4th Mar 2009 21:57
_Acid@ Thank you! : D, Your a really good modeller by the way.
EDIT: What is easier to model characters with, boxes or cylinders ?
Cylinders look easier imo because there is more dimention.

=Acid=
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Posted: 4th Mar 2009 22:23 Edited at: 4th Mar 2009 22:23
Thanks,
My old account was er Crav3, I had some problems logging in so I had to make a new one.

Back on topic:
Some people model in cylinders and some in boxes. It doesn't really matter which you start out from, but mostly starting out from a box is easier because you can subdivide(smoothout) the mesh when ever you choose. If your doing it from a cylinder you've already got subdivided faces which is uneasy going because you may have used more polys than you should have in the first place.

Just start out with a box, and model out the chest, than the arms,hands then legs.

Have a look here. Sure helped me alot.

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NWHUOvo69w
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN9gi480i5U

As well as this I suggest you find some really good references of people. That is Front view and Side view picture which you can put in the viewport and just work off the anatomy off that.
There's a site called 3d.sk even though its a pay site, but to me is the most usefull resource out there. I suggest maybe saving up and when you buy the subscription download as many references as you can before the time runs out.
Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 4th Mar 2009 22:46 Edited at: 5th Mar 2009 08:19
Thanks man! i think i might have a go with cylinders tonight. does anyone have a good human blueprint or something, thanks.

THINK
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Posted: 5th Mar 2009 17:05
it looks very good mate .
wat is gonig toe be an monster
or alien?
and if you need textuers here is the place to be ----------------------->http://www.cgtextures.com

i tink that am tinking
Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 5th Mar 2009 17:47 Edited at: 5th Mar 2009 22:24
I make my own textures Thanks anyway

Also, Demon/monster. but im starting all fresh because i forgot to back up my work

Also, could anyone get me a blueprint or refrence like the one in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF2B0r5B3yc&feature=related
Thanks alot!

EDIT: Found the exact one in the video.

Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 6th Mar 2009 17:45
I have a question, i cant see my refrence image in my static view ports i only can see it in 3d view port, how do i make it so i can see it in the others, Thanks

Asteric
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Posted: 6th Mar 2009 23:00
press f3

Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 6th Mar 2009 23:04
Thanks you

Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 7th Mar 2009 13:05
Could anyone tell me how to make different objects one. Because i have made the arms body and legs seperate, but i want to bridge them to make then joined but i cant do this unless they're one object.
Thanks alot.

henry ham
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Posted: 7th Mar 2009 13:14
in the modify menu go to polygon there is a button that says attach click that then click on the part you want to add to your object then you can bridge across.

cheers henry

Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 7th Mar 2009 13:32 Edited at: 7th Mar 2009 14:16
LOL!, Thanks alot, its wierd how i was just looking at all your character models

EDIT: Right i have my leg and my body but how exacly would i attach my leg too the groin thing.
Image attached.

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henry ham
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Posted: 7th Mar 2009 17:18
go into vertex menu then target weld pick the vertex you want to weld then move it to that vertex & it should weld them together

Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 7th Mar 2009 20:22
Thanks

Sid Sinister
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Posted: 7th Mar 2009 23:13
Quote: "Smoothing something never makes it look good."


Number one noob mistake is turbosmoothing stuff. Followed closely by unneeded edges/bad edge flow, and then the use of smoothing groups.

I'd like to quote an an article from the polycount wiki:
Quote: "
In most cases a single smoothing group should be applied to the entire in-game mesh before baking. However this can produce extreme shading differences across the model, as the lighting is interpolated across the extreme differences between the vertex normals. It is usually better to reduce these extremes when you can because the tangent basis can only do so much to counteract the extreme lighting variations. Less extreme gradients are also better if your game engine doesn't use the same tangent basis as the baker (or doesn't make its own properly).

Hard edges can be added (via smoothing groups) where the model already has a natural seam. For example, you can add a hard edge along the rim of a car's wheel well, to prevent the inside of the wheel well from distorting the shading of the area on the outside of the car body.

Bevels can be used instead of smoothing groups, but they should be used with care because they double the vertex count along that edge. Smoothing groups also can double the vertex count for an edge, unless that edge is also a seam in UV space, or it's a seam between materials."


"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
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Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 8th Mar 2009 13:11
Ive had about 3 goes at modelling from cylinders and im really happy with the result. Its just ive got my arms, legs, and body seperate. could some one plase tell me how i can make them join like in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF2B0r5B3yc&feature=related Thank you!

=Acid=
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Posted: 8th Mar 2009 13:25
Select the object, on the panel to the right it says attach, click what object you want to attach it to.
Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 8th Mar 2009 14:08
Thats only making the seperate objects into one, you'll get what i mean if you look at the image

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Asteric
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Posted: 8th Mar 2009 14:10
you can bridge the edges together, or target weld the verts

Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 8th Mar 2009 14:12
Ive tryed bridging but it looks terrible How exacly do you use target weld because i can never seem to get it to work

Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 8th Mar 2009 23:05
Right heres a model with no 'Mesh smooth modifier' i just used some smoothing groups to equal out some parts.
Heres a screenie

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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 9th Mar 2009 02:24 Edited at: 9th Mar 2009 02:28
Interesting convo I had with some industry experts at polycount about smoothing groups.

Quote: "<Stradigos> I'm trying to explain to someone that using different smoothing groups on your model is not a good idea. Doesn't it add more geometry somehow? Why exactly don't you want to?

<III_Demon> its not a huge deal

<III_Demon> you just dont wanna go nuts with it

<III_Demon> 'smoothing groups' are just an interface.. they're an obnoxious layer on top of the actual meat of the thing

<III_Demon> whats actually going on is separate vertex normals per face

<Stradigos> what happens to them when you bring it into a game engine

<III_Demon> maya handles it on a per edge basis

<Stradigos> so would that mean two normals per vertex?

<III_Demon> each sharp edged vertex becomes multiple verts, if the game engine doesnt handle it properly. depends on the format.

<III_Demon> best case, everything is handled properly, and you have multiple normals per vert.. face vertex normals or whatever they're called in your specific thing

<gcmp> meshes get seperated by angle so it becomes more complex but sometimes it's needed with some low poly stuff

<III_Demon> worst case, the format doesnt know how to handle it, so it splits the verts into separate ones, which can create wacky seams on your edges, and definitely creates more geometry

<III_Demon> its not the end of the world.. you just wanna avoid lots of 'hard edges' or whatever, if you're using a system that doesnt handle them properly

<Stradigos> alright, thanks for clearing that up

<Stradigos> one more question

<Stradigos> if you baking, you definitely want to have one smoothing group though right?

<III_Demon> it figures into normal mapping, and thats another layer of complexity

<Stradigos> so then short answer yes?

<gcmp> well I had that when exporting and reimporting a mesh from a popular game engine, every face that had different smoothing on was an element to be able to handle the supplemental game engine lighting

<III_Demon> eh... there we go with the complexity. =] generally, yes, if you can get away with it, you just wanna leave smoothing groups alone entirely. put everything in one smoothing group and leave it that way

<III_Demon> some engines kinda require the opposite, for normal mapping.. but they handle that in the engine, and i have no idea wtf i'm talking about if i go any deeper than that.

<Stradigos> lol, thanks

Stradigos> I think using smoothing groups is fugly

<Stradigos> I hate it

<Stradigos> I'd rather texture it and normal map it

<III_Demon> at this point its just left over from obsolete days

<Stradigos> yeah

<III_Demon> yeah. normal mapping is the better solution

<III_Demon> and/or higher poly counts

<III_Demon> if you can jack the poly count high enough, theres never any need for sharp edges at all"


"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-
Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 9th Mar 2009 09:14 Edited at: 9th Mar 2009 09:30
Wait could you take me to a conclusion, is this a bad model ? Because i want to know which tecniques not to use when character modeling.
Thanks-

Sid Sinister
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Posted: 9th Mar 2009 10:09 Edited at: 9th Mar 2009 10:21
No, it's not a bad model. There's room for improvement but this is a great start.

What I am talking about is smoothing groups. Others already touched on mesh smooth and turbo smooth, so you already know about using/not using them.

I think maybe where you are getting confused is on the terminology. I could be wrong, but let me just clarify.





I am often on a crusade against smoothing groups. They are old, outdated and bad practice. They cause problems with some game engines and often make the model look crappier than it is, partly because they are retarded and partly because people don't know how to use them.

The convo I put up in my last post was about me asking about smoothing groups. I wanted to double check my information.

Quote: "<III_Demon> at this point its just left over from obsolete days

<III_Demon> yeah. normal mapping is the better solution

<III_Demon> and/or higher poly counts"



Don't worry about it. Your doing fine. Your only using one smoothing group by the looks of it anyway. I was just giving some useful information for the future. I didn't mean to confuse you

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-

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