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Work in Progress / NINJA SCROLL

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hexGEAR
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Posted: 5th Nov 2002 15:09
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Hey, i'm making this game called Ninja Scroll:

i'm still workin on the demo though which consists of 2 parts, part 1 is completed and ready for download @ my downloads page:
http://www.geocities.com/hexgear/fw_ninja_scroll_downloads.html
there are also lots of screenshots of the game on the site, here are just a few of them:





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pathfinder
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Posted: 5th Nov 2002 15:28
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hehe when I saw the screenshots I thought it was commercial, ill download the demo tonight. But just looking at the work youve put into the website iam looking forward to it.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th Nov 2002 16:35
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i kinda liked this... pitty it has nothing to do with Ninja Scroll (Manga) as i loved that film

on word... S-L-O-W, sorry but it was very painfully slow for - i changed the resolution in one of the addin dbas (which i'm not sure is a smart idea to have those open to the public )

but still was far to slow, i reckon i was getting a good erm - 10fps

please stick it in 640x480 standard... and window it as well that'll give even more speed

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 5th Nov 2002 17:55
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erm..... guess it's back to the drawing board then, dunno man, i got these ideas that i ain't sure of achieving using DB, i'm really considering learning c++. Anyways thanks for the comments i'll get to it eh.
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denki
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Posted: 6th Nov 2002 09:50
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Dude, you can't call it ninja scroll! I'm just trying it BTW

denki
Kousen DPB RPG latest - Working on editors!
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denki
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Posted: 6th Nov 2002 09:50
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Damn Corrupted, I'll check tonight with new winzip

denki
Kousen DPB RPG latest - Working on editors!
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 6th Nov 2002 15:01
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what's wrong with the name, is it 'cause it kinda gives people the impression that it's somethin to do with the manga movie. It's called Ninja Scroll because in the long run, the game has a lot to do with ninja's and scrolls
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 7th Nov 2002 02:31
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Just some more misc. shots from the Demo II i'm working on, it's gonna take a while to complete since i have to go back to the first and look for ways to boost my fps.







since the game is about stealth, i'm trying to make it look and feel as much like thief as possible.
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 7th Nov 2002 02:32
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 7th Nov 2002 02:51
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damn, that looks sweet
Dloading now...

Alex Wanuch
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 7th Nov 2002 12:59
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yeah, it may look good but a pity i doesn't play good on some peoples computer, i put a lot of work into it though, you can swim, shoot shurikens, blow gun darts, use smoke bombs (which had some cool fx), use the sword, creep, evade........ some much stuff. but for this particular stage of the game, you will be using the 1st person view (easier to use for sneaking around)
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Nov 2002 14:42
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i think perhaps it should be called something else as well
i mean you should watch the movie, truely fantastic...
should be called something like
"Kiyou Ninmu" (ƒLƒˆƒE?@ƒjƒ“ƒ€)

i'll leave you to figure out what it means
from the code i noticed perhaps you need to think of a more efficient way to utilise the code, i mean you have too much going on realtime rather than as background tasks.
try to focus actual game on what the character does and make sure everything used often is in the built EXE, this will help speed ALOT

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 7th Nov 2002 14:57
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Well it worked on mine, once I deleted the temp folder thing. And I must say, I was impressed

Alex Wanuch
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 7th Nov 2002 18:12
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ok then, the name goes, i'll try to look for something else that'll fit the game, might even consider "Kiyou Ninmu" (after searching for the meaning). hey rapscallio, what was the fps of the game on your system (if the game doesn't say then edit the source code and add the screen fps() command). Thanks for the comments vageta, i'll get right at it.
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 7th Nov 2002 23:45
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hey raven you have to help me out man, what the hell does "Kiyou Ninmu" meen, iv'e been to every internet translator on the net and tried every single language but still nothing!!!.
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 8th Nov 2002 00:34
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I'll try later tonight

Alex Wanuch
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th Nov 2002 01:06
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mwhahahaaa... first you need to know what language it is i guess
so i'll help you there its Jap - guess you don't have the language plugin for IE cause otherwise you'd have seen that in the brackets

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th Nov 2002 01:18
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i found out what it is... onscreen depth
when i'm looking forward the FPS is 10
but when there is practically nothing onscreen its levels out at 34 hehee

so make NOTHING for the whole level and i should be able to play fine

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 8th Nov 2002 02:24
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...
I've tried various different translation sites and general websearches, but I can't find the meaning of "Kiyou Ninmu".
...

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 8th Nov 2002 03:46
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hey vegeta, i have to agree with rapscallion, the word "Kiyou Ninmu" does not exist unless you tell us the translation site you found it on.

hey i've done more work on the Demo II and i have manages to keep it on a constant 29fps on my computer. what are the specs of your computer vegeta? i don't see why it should run at 10fps on your machine and 25fps on mine.

let me introduce you guys to kato, the lead character of my game, he's replacing Jubei in the original ninja scroll. mwhahahaaa........................

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hexGEAR
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Posted: 8th Nov 2002 03:54
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FIGH NIGHT

on the left, you have my Ninja scroll main character Kato, a young ninja in training and on my right you have the original ninja scroll main character jubei, a masterless ninja wonderer.

vs

who do you think will win?
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 8th Nov 2002 04:28
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Oh, and I couldn't get the source code working...
I can't get it to run in DBP, and I don't have access to memblocks in DB classic.

Alex Wanuch
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th Nov 2002 05:46
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Kiyou Ninmu literally means "Mirror Mission"
most translations sites are quite useless when it comes to Jap

ya know you can't link Geocities, Angelfire, Tripod US sites right?
I'd suggest you get ahold of the UK/European counterpart versions - Lycos in Europe is quite outstanding even on the free service and allows hotlinks

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 8th Nov 2002 14:30
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what do you meen by "you can't link", as in you cannot link from a site outside geocities to a site based inside geocities or what?
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 8th Nov 2002 14:49
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hey could you guys answer me this, why is it that if there is nothing on my screen at all (in db) when i run a program the fps is 40, then some guys make games that the fps is 50 or even 60 using the same dark basic, how the hell do they do it?, it cannot be code because i've really worked on my game code, it's hovering btw 30 and 40fps now!!
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 8th Nov 2002 15:04
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they probably have wicked-ass computers...

Alex Wanuch
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th Nov 2002 15:12
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No happens to me too..
Duron 800 - GeForce2mx 200 - Dx8.1b Debug - 512Mb SdRam

with a blank screen full screen at most resolutions i can get around 120fps, if i window that then goes upto close to 250fps (in DarkBasic Enhanced)
when i add things it drops relatively.

i guess its far more in the coding style than anything else eh (^_^)

and by you can't link i mean, you can see your pictures because you have them in your temp folder - however if i want to see any EVEN your avatar i have to copy the address into a new browser window. There are alot of pics there and i really can't be bothered to do that!

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 8th Nov 2002 20:29
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ok vegeta, if you get fps as high as 120, and your computer is clearly better than mine, how come the fps of my game is higher on my and rapscaLLion's computer and lower on yours?
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th Nov 2002 21:04
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your guess is as good as mine

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hexGEAR
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Posted: 9th Nov 2002 16:13
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man, i wonder if any of you guys could help me out with lean code, as in lean right or left to check if guards are coming towards you. After doing that i can finally start creating my combat arena.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 9th Nov 2002 19:22
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hmm... well the leaning itself would be a combo of an animation and camera movement - perhaps write a section that when close to a building he has his back to it, but the camera doesn't move
then all you have to do is move the camera slightly.
if the character is against the wall he is not in FOV of the ninja's

so setup some globals that can be set to either 1/0 and then for the guard FOV check if these are active or not so they know to take action par Ai or just ignore

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 9th Nov 2002 20:11
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i understand what you meen but in the demo II i am making, the camera is in 1st person perspective and i'm not totally sure on how to write the exact camera movement and rolling code, like in thief and all other fp games.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 9th Nov 2002 20:35
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hmm
well about about a simple curve cam
my brain is kinda falling asleep so not sure on the actual maths - but i'm pretty sure, it is simple trig
Camera Radius (offset from ABS)
Camera Height
you then use the Radius and CosSin to calculate the new position based on the Height - Radius which gives you the number to calculate the original XY of the camera, then using that setup the distance to move, which would end up as degree's of movement and finally rotate based on the degrees

i'm sure someone can quickly code it up - this is kinda why i like making art more, you don't have to remember calculations or anything.

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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 10th Nov 2002 00:55
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I dunno... I like it in 3rd person

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hexGEAR
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Posted: 10th Nov 2002 01:59
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yeah, the game is basically in 3rd person but for indoor stages i had loads of problems with the camera colliding with pillars and table static objects, it made the gameplay crooked, so i decided for indoor stealth stages you switch to 1st person and for outdoor or normal areas you use the 3rd person camera
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 10th Nov 2002 03:12
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the demo II of ninja scroll is basically finnished, just the enemy A.I. left to program, i've got some lecture on AI in java programming coming up and i think it would help in the game so i'm gonna postpone completion. the game works on a constant 30fps. I've also made the combat dojo where the fighting will take place, withought code and in a windowed 640 * 480 * 16 res the fps was 80. so i'm gonna try to maintain a high fps as i code. I've got some screenies of them both and more can be found on my screenshot page.
http://www.geocities.com/hexgear/fw_ninja_scroll_screenshots3.html

the stealth mission stage:





the combat room in the dojo:

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Nov 2002 06:22
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oh something of note... i noticed alot of the media models you were using we're quite high polygon for what they are and also scaresly textures.
you'd be far better off making them lower polygon with a better texture or higher polygon without a texture. As they are alot of the things will just kill FPS for no good reason
Also, take note to have a virtual version of the game playing in the memory - so that when the ninja comes into veiw of an object you can load that object into a position of 0-255, if you have any more than that speeds starts to drop

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 10th Nov 2002 15:50
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thanks man, will do. about the positioning stuff what about using the fog distance and set camera range commands to decrease the depth of view (say 40 +) that should help to increase the fps shouldn't it?
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Nov 2002 16:59
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well it should... i dunno i've noticed alot of people use very small numbers for this - just have to wonder what scale they're working to.

i tend to work to 1dbu = 10cm ... and oftenly set the camera range to 1,500 (for larger worlds) and the fog 1,350 (to offset so things blend into scene well

i mean if i want more speed i can shrink the camera distance further - but it isn't that much of a performance increase, for people with GeForce, Radeon, Kyro and such cards i think you should add the line

do it like that because there are a few cards which run TnL but don't like it with other certain DB stuff suchas Static Objects

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GCEclipse
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Posted: 10th Nov 2002 18:35
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Really nice screens hexgear - reminds me a little of the Last Ninja games on the spectrum and C64. I doubt anybody remembers them. Ran fine. Fast fps on my PC which is a 1.4ghz with a geforce 3 job.

Again, really good work I've seen so far and I'm really looking forward to seeing more.

GC
http://www.eclipsedevelopment.co.uk/
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 10th Nov 2002 21:45
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thanks for the compliment GC, and thanks to vegeta i've found a lot more ways i can increase the fps. The ninja scroll demo on my site was not coded efficiently so i'll be working on it again to make it as fast as possible.
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 14th Nov 2002 17:42
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has anyone got any ideas on how to mask your games code, bitmaps and music ( as in encrypt them or render them in a format that cannot be easiliy decoded).

to live is to suffer, to survive, well, that's to find meaning in the suffering - DMX
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 14th Nov 2002 22:31
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...
use DBP?

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 14th Nov 2002 23:27
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no, don't have dbpro yet, gonna get it soon though. I still have db classic! i think your supposed to encrypt the file, then when running an exe or something decrypt it then when exiting the exe encrypt again but i'm not sure about the entire process.

to live is to suffer, to survive, well, that's to find meaning in the suffering - DMX
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 15th Nov 2002 00:12
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simple... runtime the files into a single file



of course putting all of the files into a string array first
also this might be easily broken so you can tag them together into groups of directories they're in, put offset headers before the data, Table of Contents at the end of the file instead of the start ya know upto you really.
DBpro is even better for this as you can select a byte position similar style to a memblock and recreate things that way

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 15th Nov 2002 00:23
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lol stupid me, thats kinda wrong
try that instead...



and to decompress would be ->


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hexGEAR
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Posted: 15th Nov 2002 00:48
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so erm... when do i compress and decompress?

is it when i run the .exe the files are decompressed and when i'm about to exit the .exe the files are the compressed again.

When you make an .exe (not final) using dark basic it does not need the source code to run does it?

and finally, can i use the decompress and compress method for the sounds, bitmaps and 3d models?

to live is to suffer, to survive, well, that's to find meaning in the suffering - DMX
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Shadow Robert
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firstly... you compress to begin with once on its own, just to get the file

then when the game begins right at the start you decompress so you can load everythings

then right before exit you then recompress and delete all the files, this means the source is relatively safe, i mean if you use exactly above there is a chance people can figure out what you've done

with it you can compress any kinda of file, so whatever it is you can compress into it ... i made a special packer function a good year or so ago for DB with a simple GUI front, i'll have to dig it out or make a new one, it was mainly to keep files much neater - however i'm sure i could edit it to have a password or some varification file to allow only developed programs to extract

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hexGEAR
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Posted: 16th Nov 2002 00:10
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Guys

- i need some feedback on what you hate or dislike about this game demo so i can implement and change it in the main game.

- any ideas or thoughts you think should be in the game or would be good if i included it in the game.

I'm about to commence production!!!

to live is to suffer, to survive, well, that's to find meaning in the suffering - DMX
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 16th Nov 2002 01:59
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Wait, I thought DBClassic had Pack file options... I know DBP does but I was SURE DB 1.x did...

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
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