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kaedroho
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 00:28
This one includes the resources system.

Monk
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 00:57
Quote: "What style are you looking for? (curiosity)"


Fps-ish? Something that could represent an open source community fps project?

I dunno, Im not the creative sorts....

Monk


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thenerd
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 02:22
well, that is in the design document...
realistc, probably.

kuljot
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 06:04
I'm Confused. I have never doen organized programming like this with all these modules and stuff. I have just programmed with one source file and my code is messy. So i am a little lost. Can someone please explain how this module and all this stuff works so i can contribute to programming.

Gateway GT5628 Quad Core Desktop Intel Core 2 Q6600 2.4GHz Quad Core 3072MB RAM / 500GB 7200 SATA II Hard drive DVD RW 18X multi dual NVIDIA GeForce 8500GT ....
kaedroho
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 12:16 Edited at: 5th Aug 2009 12:18
Every engine uses modules. DBPro, FPSC, CryEngine, etc. Surely you've came across them before?

Some examples.

DBPro: Core, Files, Memblocks, Basic3D, 3D maths, Game FX, etc.
FPSC: Core, Physics, AI, etc
CryEngine: Core, Cry3D, CryPhysics, CryEffects, etc.

Monk
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 14:36
Whats the first mission going to be? I just need a rough plan and location, then I might start having a look at designing it.

Monk


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thenerd
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 14:44 Edited at: 5th Aug 2009 14:53
kuljot,
each module does a different thing, and the core puts them all together. for example, if you were going to do, say, physics, you would make a file with the appropriate functions that handled physics alone.
<analogy>
think of puzzle pieces as the modules, and all the pieces combine to form a puzzle (the game).
</analogy>

Monk,
I'm thinking...
[edit] how about, the team is in a helicopter on the way to the enemy military base, and they get shot down, and land on the side of a mountain. they must fight there way down the slopes, where friends are waiting. the level will be mostly outside, so it will show off kaehedro's engine and my awesome treemagik trees. also, on the way down the lanscape changes(snowy, forest, grassland), so the player can tell how close he/she is to finishing.

Monk
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 14:52
If youre still thinking. You could have a mission sort of based around trying to get to the island? Maybe attacked by pirates on a cruise ship on the way to the nearby main land. (the main land being where you will meet the other people and then head to the rogue island)

I think it should be before the team has really sort of got together and started finding the enemies.

Monk


I like work. It fascinates me. I sit and look at it for hours.
thenerd
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 14:54
monk, read my post above you. I edited it at the same time you posted.

Monk
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 15:03 Edited at: 5th Aug 2009 15:05
Cool, sounds good.
Ill start on a slightly more in depth level design if I can. Itll just give me something to do and gets us started.



Edit: Im sure in one of the design docs, a mention said that the first level should have a variety of features so that the player can decide what type of character (Vanising Act, Sentinel etc) they want to play as. Ill try and figure that into it.

Monk


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thenerd
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 15:09 Edited at: 5th Aug 2009 15:13
of course, it is outside so you can make ledges and such for the sniper/Sentinel, and maybe the grassland area lets you use the piggyback (i forget the new name) mechanic. the cold area higher up would be good for a vanishing act, because there is less to hide from.

technical question,
what program are you using?

Monk
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 15:16 Edited at: 5th Aug 2009 15:18
Well since its using Blizt Terrain and TreeMagik, the end thing im guessing will be put together using DBPro, but the design, im gonna do some drawings and some general ideas down, and then write / type it up.

Open to suggestions...

Monk

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thenerd
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 15:22
blitzterrain reads heightmaps, and when the xml system is done that will handle entities and other objects. do you think we should make an editor?

Monk
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 15:31
Yes, but it will need to be flexible. May need to do one for outdoors, and one for indoors...

Heightmaps
object placement
textures
number of enemies + starting locations

Anything else? LOD and physics will be handled separately.

Monk

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kaedroho
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 15:32
Yeah you should. I will unlock some RTMS commands for you for the next release to make an editor possible with BlitzTerrain.

thenerd
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 15:35
I'll start working on it. It might take my a little longer than I want, I am on vacation so the computer i am using does not have as much resources on it. but I can manage.

Monk
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 15:39
Ill just start on the design so that when the editors ready, youve got something to make straight away. =)
If you get stuck, ill try to help

Monk

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thenerd
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 16:05
okay.

kaedroho
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 16:29
The RTMS commands work in the latest version because my little security system only partly worked. Which makes the RTMS commands work but very buggy.

Monk
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 18:58 Edited at: 5th Aug 2009 18:59
thenerd,
If we're gonna have all 14 missions based around the rogue island, instead of just planning one mission, I could design the whole area.
It would save planning mission by mission and would give the overall feel of the game. Then go into more detail for the location of each particular mission. Sound good?

Monk

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Dar13
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 19:43
Quote: "Every engine uses modules. DBPro, FPSC, CryEngine, etc. Surely you've came across them before?"

Quote: "FPSC: Core, Physics, AI, etc"

I wish FPSC was modularized, kaedroho. It's all one huge source file.

Sounds like you know what you're doing, so good luck.



Tom J
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 19:53
Deal me in some of the level design stuff monk, if you have done an overview of the island levels, then I will assist with putting the detail in some of the levels. Though I suggest we need to map out the story as well as just mapping out the levels, so it all works out together.

Didn't BlitzTerrain have a feature where you could make holes in terrains? That could be handy for sticking in subterranean buildings and stairways and stuff like that.
kaedroho
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 20:05 Edited at: 5th Aug 2009 20:11
Quote: "I wish FPSC was modularized, kaedroho. It's all one huge source file."


Acctually, it is a bunch of modules all put into 1 source file. Look at the prefixes.

Quote: "Didn't BlitzTerrain have a feature where you could make holes in terrains? That could be handy for sticking in subterranean buildings and stairways and stuff like that."


Yeah, its called exclusion. Its available in the latest release.

Dar13
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 20:27
Ah, so it is. My mistake.

thenerd
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 20:55
well, Monk, that sounds like a good idea, but how would you go about loading the level. It would take longer to load (although it would only load once), and the game would run slower. we might need to implement a streaming system of some kind...

Monk
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 22:45
Im still gonna treat the loading of levels on a per mission basis, as thats the best way for the game to work, one mission at a time.

Im(we +TomJ) only designing the level as a whole because its easier to think of the island or island chain as a whole, rather than design the beach, the forest, the hills separately.

Also, on a map of the whole thing, you can plan the way each level is going to work, in what order, and where on the island.

For each mission, we only need to load the stuff in view. We dont need to load the whole island, just the local landscape (as much as can be seen- less if there are trees in the way) as many trees etc in sight. We dont need to load the whole island, since the player will not be visiting the whole island for each mission.

TomJ,
Ill keep posting my thoughts and ideas on here fairly regularly, and comment on what you think. If i do any drawing/sketches whatever, ill try to scan them in and post the in the evening (GMT)

Any more ideas?

Monk

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thenerd
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Posted: 5th Aug 2009 23:03 Edited at: 5th Aug 2009 23:04
well, how about making the whole island, and then deleting parts not needed. for now just make all the island.

Monk, i'm looking forward to your design sketches...

Monk
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Posted: 6th Aug 2009 11:50 Edited at: 6th Aug 2009 16:29
Im planning to make the main character British or American and have the squad of 5 other people from different countries. That will make a total of 6 people. Im still deciding whether the main character is American or British depending on who we get as voice actors.

Im looking for an island that we can use as the "rogue" island. Either that, or we could just make one from scratch, but I dunno about other people, but Id prefer just to use a real one if there is one suitable.

Im planning on the island being in the Mediterranean since its already fairly close to Europe. Either the Med, or the African/Spanish edge of the Atlantic.

Edit: There are a few small islands near Majorca / Balearic Islands that could be suitable.

Edit2: There are a few more larger islands just off the coast of spain. I think that these islands could be more suitable.

Edit (again) : I think im gonna use the Azores Islands. They fit the plan of missions Ive drafted up. Ill post more details later =)

Azores map

TomJ,
Ill post the sort of outlines for the first few levels later.

Monk

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thenerd
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Posted: 6th Aug 2009 16:46 Edited at: 6th Aug 2009 16:46
the Azores islands will work.

Monk
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Posted: 6th Aug 2009 17:26 Edited at: 6th Aug 2009 17:45
Good, thats what I thought

You were aiming for 14 missions in 14 days right?



thenerd, I can get you some heightmaps for the Azores if you want? Then when you get the editor up, you'll have something to test on.

Monk

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kaedroho
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Posted: 6th Aug 2009 18:13 Edited at: 6th Aug 2009 18:14
Make the story so it can be expanded in the future. So if its popular, we can make another game.

Dont make it do the same thing for 4 days, even if its different places. I like to call it Assassins Creed Syndrome.

Makes games rather boring if you do the same thing over and over.

Monk
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Posted: 6th Aug 2009 18:34
Quote: "Dont make it do the same thing for 4 days, even if its different places. I like to call it Assassins Creed Syndrome.

Makes games rather boring if you do the same thing over and over."


You mean days 10 to 13?

Quote: "Make the story so it can be expanded in the future. So if its popular, we can make another game."

Haha, weve gotta make the first one yet.... But I'm sure that we could expand it. Maybe let the betrayer escape? with the last vial?

Monk

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kaedroho
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Posted: 6th Aug 2009 18:37
You seem to have 1 thing per day.

Make it so missions do more than 1 objective and different objectives. It will make the game more interesting.

Monk
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Posted: 6th Aug 2009 18:44
In the design doc, or one of the earlier posts, I think the plan was to have 14 days and 14 missions. Some will be at night so it does vary a bit.

Ill try to change the objectives, maybe have to go back and rescue your mates if they got captured instead of you.

I think the players will get quite a bit of variation from the islands as well. If the islands are all slightly unique, then each island will have its own challenges, even for similar missions.

Monk

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Sasuke
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Posted: 6th Aug 2009 19:02
Wow, took me awhile to read through all of this but this is looking like a proper engine instead of the old "I'll make the level, you make the guns and chuck it all together". Wish I could join in but I'm deep in my game engine at the moment, anyway I'll be keeping track of this, maybe lend a thought now and then. Good Luck Guys.

A dream is a fantasy, if you achieve that fantasy it was never a dream to begin with.
kaedroho
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Posted: 6th Aug 2009 20:40 Edited at: 6th Aug 2009 20:42
I have a character control system which uses realistic Gravity calculations, Capsule shape collision, etc. I'll dig it up.

Its on a hard drive which is in my very old pc. I'll see if i can plug it into my new one.

Its very old, (pre uberengine).

Tom J
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Posted: 6th Aug 2009 20:49 Edited at: 6th Aug 2009 20:51
Well the draft sounds like a good overview, I'll try to give my comments

Although my first question is why the player is on a 'cruise ship' in the first place, that phrase makes me think of a a huge holiday liner; but I would have thought a ferry would have made more sense



Comments in bold.
Quote: "

Day 1 - Attacked whilst on your way to meet the rest of the squad.
Attack takes place on cruise ship by pirates. Can act as a
basic shooting/moving tutorial as well.


Day 2 - After making it safely to meet squad, night flight towards
airport on main island. Get shot down, and crash land on
Terceira. Must fight to kill approaching enemies and reach
some safety...

Could make for some good guerrilla warfare opponents on this stage, e.g. you're in a low visibilty dense forest at night and because you have been shot down you would have enemies surrounding you and exploiting the environment, by hiding on ledges and such like that. You could make it so you've crashed into rock bottom and you have to get to the higher grounds, where perhaps there may be a shelter of some kind. It could also serve well as the first level which settles you into working with a team.

Day 3 - Take out Communications Tower 1 on Terceira.

Day 4 - Take out Communications Tower 2 on Faial.

Well I think this was another thing that kaedroho was pointing out on the repetitiveness thing. The day 3 mission works out nicely since it is on the same island. But for Day 4, Faial is on the other side of Pico and Sao Jorge so it feels a bit all over the place; how would the team get there? I don't know whether you could make each tower in a completely different place, so that the mission approach is different, either that or make tower 2 something else like a power plant.

Day 5 - Capture Airport on Sao Jorge.

You could link that in with the shooting down, perhaps the airport has anti-aircraft defences that need to be deactivated; to send supplies in, other than that; that day seems fair enough

Day 6 - Break into the Production Factory. Get Betrayed by Squad
member and get captured and taken to Pico

I'd rather think of that as reach the production factory, because just breaking in seems quite short. It could be a mission where it is about the journey rather than the location. And then once you are there the betrayal can occur quickly.

Day 7 - Escape by KO'ing scientist who enters and walking out past
guards (you are disguised as the scientist). Have limited
time before alarm is rasied.

Cool cool, you could even do it as a mission which is very open ended, since it is an escape thing, although being a scientist sounds like fun too. As a question, would the team all be in there with you, or would you have to reunite?

What could happen here (if we are still using the revised storyline I put in), is have some sort of UN breakdown where all the countries start trying to meet the islands demands at this point, since the force has been captured. Just a thought, to liven up the political scene

Day 8 - Must sneakily raid an enemy camp to gain supplies.

For a stealth mission, it sounds good.

Day 9 - With remaining squad, wipe out the 3 small enemy bases.

This would be on Pico still? I'm not sure which one "the main one" is, hehe, sorry

Day 10- Destroy the main enemy camp.

Day 11- Destroy the first launch site.

Day 12- Destroy the production Factory.

Day 13- Destroy the second launch site.

The second launch site could be like an unknown twist - you thought you had stopped them, but there is a backup launch site that you weren't aware of, and so you have to rush and get to it within that day. It would probably help to make the two sites completely different. I think you are already addressing the repetitiveness issue though.

Day 14- Track down fleeing bad guy and the squad member that
betrayed you. Kill them and the surviving vial of anti-
protein.
hmm, we're going to need a memorable location for that somewhere completely unexpected perhaps

"
Monk
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Posted: 6th Aug 2009 23:49
You read my mind on a few of those points.

Quote: "Although my first question is why the player is on a 'cruise ship' in the first place, that phrase makes me think of a a huge holiday liner; but I would have thought a ferry would have made more sense
"

I had initially written down ferry, but for some reason, typed cruise ship...

Quote: "Could make for some good guerrilla warfare opponents on this stage, e.g. you're in a low visibilty dense forest at night and because you have been shot down you would have enemies surrounding you and exploiting the environment, by hiding on ledges and such like that. You could make it so you've crashed into rock bottom and you have to get to the higher grounds, where perhaps there may be a shelter of some kind. It could also serve well as the first level which settles you into working with a team. "


My initial idea was that the player has to exploit the ledges to survive, and the enemy was the one crashing through the undergrowth to get to the crash site before the player got away. You could have them starting at the bottom running upwards, and them let them decide how high is high enough and which shelter they want to use. Its also a sort of intro level which will let the user decide what type of character (sentinel etc) they want to be during the missions.

Quote: "Well I think this was another thing that kaedroho was pointing out on the repetitiveness thing. The day 3 mission works out nicely since it is on the same island. But for Day 4, Faial is on the other side of Pico and Sao Jorge so it feels a bit all over the place; how would the team get there? I don't know whether you could make each tower in a completely different place, so that the mission approach is different, either that or make tower 2 something else like a power plant. "

Power plant sounds good. My chosen method of transport was going to be stolen powerboats, or whatever transport the enemy uses. Ive redone the map with the places in a more logical positions. Ill try and neaten it up and possibly upload it sometime. Not now though. The power plant would be on Sao Jorge.

Quote: "Cool cool, you could even do it as a mission which is very open ended, since it is an escape thing, although being a scientist sounds like fun too. As a question, would the team all be in there with you, or would you have to reunite?

What could happen here (if we are still using the revised storyline I put in), is have some sort of UN breakdown where all the countries start trying to meet the islands demands at this point, since the force has been captured. Just a thought, to liven up the political scene
"

Ive also replanned this bit, where the main player manages to escape but the AI doesnt. This means the player has to mount a solo rescue mission, and the scientist idea may still apply.
Adding politics would definitely add to the game, nice thinking =)

Quote: "Day 9 - With remaining squad, wipe out the 3 small enemy bases.

This would be on Pico still? I'm not sure which one "the main one"
is, hehe, sorry "


In my replan, Ive got rid of this mission to add variety. The next mission moves forward one day, then ive yet to add another mission on day 10.

Day 12, is now capture the factory not destroy. Bonus points for not killing the workers, just the managers.

Quote: "The second launch site could be like an unknown twist - you thought you had stopped them, but there is a backup launch site that you weren't aware of, and so you have to rush and get to it within that day. It would probably help to make the two sites completely different. I think you are already addressing the repetitiveness issue though.
"

Oddly enough, thats exactly what I was thinking, I just couldnt think how to phrase it shortly. I was thinking of an announcment by the baddies to show off how you hadnt beaten them, they announce the second, and then by the marvels of infra red satellite technology, you discover it underground. This could even be made into two missions, thus filling the space I had. One; find the entrance, two; destroy the launch pad.

Quote: "hmm, we're going to need a memorable location for that somewhere completely unexpected perhaps "

I was thinking heli chase?
And then because you dont actually see inside the heli, it leaves the possibility that it was a dummy. Combine with a secret note saying its not over at the end scene, and you have a sequel =)

Hope that adds to the mayhem!

Monk

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Tom J
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Posted: 7th Aug 2009 01:30
Quote: "I had initially written down ferry, but for some reason, typed cruise ship..."


Fair enough

Quote: "My initial idea was that the player has to exploit the ledges to survive, and the enemy was the one crashing through the undergrowth to get to the crash site before the player got away. You could have them starting at the bottom running upwards, and them let them decide how high is high enough and which shelter they want to use. Its also a sort of intro level which will let the user decide what type of character (sentinel etc) they want to be during the missions."


So would the higher up shelters have some sort of advantage to them, like more supplies in them, or something like that? It sounds like an interesting idea depending how well you cope with the survival. And then you choose your character/class when you reach the shelter.

Quote: "Power plant sounds good."


Ok then, the power plant will probably not be powering the launch sites, considering that you still have to destroy them later Maybe it could just power down the airport or factory, or something like that. Also, what kind of plant do you think it should be? Fossil fuel burning, hydroelectric, something unknown?

Quote: "
The next mission moves forward one day, then ive yet to add another mission on day 10."


As a suggestion it could be to sabotage or ambush the supply route for antiprotein, so that less can reach the launch site.

Quote: "I was thinking of an announcment by the baddies to show off how you hadnt beaten them, they announce the second, and then by the marvels of infra red satellite technology, you discover it underground."


Underground makes me think of the James Bond volcano base in You only live twice for some reason, should be good

Quote: "
I was thinking heli chase?"


Perhaps, I would like to see a proper showdown with the betrayer though; the player needs vengeance of course the other guy (the guy behind it all) could always have a faked death.
kaedroho
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Posted: 7th Aug 2009 02:36 Edited at: 7th Aug 2009 02:37
I havnt found this character control code yet. Ill keep digging tomorrow.

I know its on this hard drive though.

I just got back from a gig so im finding it hard to concentrate on anything now with this constant ringing sound in my ears.

Monk
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Posted: 7th Aug 2009 09:29
Quote: "Maybe it could just power down the airport or factory, or something like that. Also, what kind of plant do you think it should be? Fossil fuel burning, hydroelectric, something unknown?"

Possibly the airport, as that would tie in with the next mission. I would like hydroelectric as I think it would be ace to blow up a dam =)

Quote: "As a suggestion it could be to sabotage or ambush the supply route for antiprotein, so that less can reach the launch site. "

That would have to be on boats of planes... Unless we just ambush them in port.

Quote: "Perhaps, I would like to see a proper showdown with the betrayer though; the player needs vengeance of course the other guy (the guy behind it all) could always have a faked death. "

Proper showdown would be good if done properly. How would we fake his death, or are there any other ways of leading into a sequel?

Quote: "I just got back from a gig so im finding it hard to concentrate on anything now with this constant ringing sound in my ears."
What band?

Monk

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Dared1111
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Posted: 7th Aug 2009 15:35
Quote: "Ive also replanned this bit, where the main player manages to escape but the AI doesnt. This means the player has to mount a solo rescue mission, and the scientist idea may still apply.
Adding politics would definitely add to the game, nice thinking =)"


This could be an issue, depends on how that level is designed. If we leave the player alone, we should be careful not to make players need mechanics that require the AI characters.

I'll have the enemies in the design document soon.

kaedroho
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Posted: 7th Aug 2009 16:18 Edited at: 7th Aug 2009 16:19
The headliner:

http://www.myspace.com/kenaiuk

I was right at the front for them.

Saw them at Witney. (where i live)

Monk
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Joined: 25th Sep 2008
Location: Standing in the snow =D
Posted: 7th Aug 2009 17:34
I havent heard of Kenai before...

Dared1111,
theres only one mechanic that requires AI isnt there? The piggback, and thats only if the player choses to be a Vanishing Act. They can still complete the missions without that ability. Especially if they have the vanishing ability.
Ill remember not to make the player need the piggback though.

Monk

I like work. It fascinates me. I sit and look at it for hours.
Tom J
20
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Joined: 4th Aug 2005
Location: Essex, England
Posted: 7th Aug 2009 21:06
Quote: "Possibly the airport, as that would tie in with the next mission. I would like hydroelectric as I think it would be ace to blow up a dam =)"


If we could have fluids spewing out of the dam then that would be gorgeous X) Of course it is up to the programmers whether that is doable with our engine. As a 2nd 007 reference from me, it also makes me think of Goldeneye.

Quote: "That would have to be on boats of planes... Unless we just ambush them in port."


I was thinking that there must be a road journey at some point, even if the stuff is primarily moved around another way. The road bits could be from the factory to the port and from the port to the launch area... on a narrow road with a load of checkpoints. That was what I was thinking for an ambush.

Quote: "
How would we fake his death, or are there any other ways of leading into a sequel?"


Any number of ways I should imagine. I phrased it badly because his death doesn't have be actually faked, it just needs to be apparent that he dies (by falling into the sea from a cliff for example).

It would be cool to get some concept art up at some point; with some of the more established missions, maybe I will give that ago; although maybe not
Dared1111
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Joined: 25th Oct 2006
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Posted: 8th Aug 2009 13:41 Edited at: 8th Aug 2009 14:55
Maybe we should have creatures called the Corrupted. Civilians that reacted oddly to the anti-protein and have become rabid-esque, sometimes agile like a wolf and sometimes more like a slug on speed. Would be good for adding a dynamic feeling to the enemies encountered.

Here's the new design document, if you do not like bit about The Corrupted, then please say so.

thenerd
17
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Joined: 9th Mar 2009
Location: Boston, USA
Posted: 8th Aug 2009 17:53 Edited at: 8th Aug 2009 17:54
Quote: "If we could have fluids spewing out of the dam then that would be gorgeous X) Of course it is up to the programmers whether that is doable with our engine. As a 2nd 007 reference from me, it also makes me think of Goldeneye."
Awesome! it might be hard, but I'll have to get fluids in for that bit.

The level editor is going fine, I am using blue gui for ui, and that part is easy. It is going a little slower than I want, but i am on vacation.

Dared, I like the corrupted idea, but doesn't the antiprotein kill instantly? It might work though...

I have no internet right now, but I go back home soon, and then I can finish the editor. Sunday, I think...

kaedroho
18
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Joined: 21st Aug 2007
Location: Oxford,UK
Posted: 8th Aug 2009 17:59
Quote: "I have no internet right now"


How did you post without internet?

Tom J
20
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Joined: 4th Aug 2005
Location: Essex, England
Posted: 8th Aug 2009 18:00
As long as you aren't going too far down the zombie route with these corrupted, I don't mind them; they should probably only be in certain areas as well.

There could probably be a weaper "conscript" class IMO, as well as with the supersoldiers. Just for some watered down fight scenes and also since I would expect conscripted villagers to be forced to fight you
thenerd
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Joined: 9th Mar 2009
Location: Boston, USA
Posted: 8th Aug 2009 18:05
Quote: "How did you post without internet?"


I'm at starbucks. I have no internet at my house im staying at, because the owner installed a router, but forgot to pay for it.

I'm starting to like the "corrupted" idea, maybe the evil people were sick enough to test it on their own people. the early versions of the antiprotein didn't kill, but caused huge mutations.

Any good modellers out there to make characters?

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