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3 Dimensional Chat / some recent models

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Mazz426
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Posted: 12th Aug 2009 20:11 Edited at: 12th Aug 2009 20:12
hello, I've made this thread to showcase some of my recent models.
I'd like any C&C on any of the stuff i post as I'm still learning
a lot and can do with a lot of advise/critism so that i can learn.
to start it off here is a pic of a mac 11 that i hade earlier today.


some have greatness thrust upon them - W. Shakespeare

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Mazz426
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Posted: 12th Aug 2009 20:13 Edited at: 12th Aug 2009 20:13
and here is a pic of a clock that i made yesterday, i found getting the positions of the numbers for this ones texture rather hard and if anyone knows a way to do that sort of positioning easily that would be helpful


some have greatness thrust upon them - W. Shakespeare

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heyufool1
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Posted: 12th Aug 2009 20:37 Edited at: 12th Aug 2009 20:39
Pretty cool models! Only 1 critique. I think the texture color for the mac11 is too green, and should be more gray/black. Example:
http://arniesairsoft.co.uk/news2/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/TM%20MAC10%20vs%20KSC%20MAC11.jpg

Use Google first... it's not rocket surgery!
heyufool1
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Posted: 12th Aug 2009 20:39 Edited at: 12th Aug 2009 20:40
Pretty cool models! Only 1 critique. I think the texture color for the mac11 is too green, and should be more gray/black. Example:
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=mac11&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

Use Google first... it's not rocket surgery!
Mazz426
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Posted: 12th Aug 2009 20:54
i acctually used the first image on that page for the texture so I'm not sure why its greenish, mabey it was from one of the lights

some have greatness thrust upon them - W. Shakespeare
Mazz426
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Posted: 13th Aug 2009 15:56 Edited at: 13th Aug 2009 15:57
heres a set of revolvers i made, i tried various different methods of doing them but in the end this was the easiest, I'm not very happy with how it turned out but i had it made it with the intentions of making an FPSC ready weapon but unfortunately i don't have a programme that'll allow me to animate my models
anyway here is the picture and please give any C&C on anything I've posted as I've had a lot of views and next to no posts so please i need feedback


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Van B
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Posted: 13th Aug 2009 16:46
Your getting there, there's certainly potential, but you need to rely on reference images more and spend your polygons better.

The guns all seem to have really high detail barrels, while the rest of the gun is kida plain. Same goes for that clock, you have used a 32 segment cylinder for that round part, I would use that on a big wheel, not a tiny clock - you could get away with using far less polygons on your cylinders, and spheres. Spend the detail on the gun, making it look as much like the intended as possible.

The main thing with replicating guns though is to replicate the gun, and it's not a straightforward google image search that gets results. I've been there dude! - I used to make gun models in much the same way, get a good ref image from google and cut it out, adding bits here and there...

These days I won't even consider making a gun model without an actual scale model of the gun, be it a toy, a replica, a BB pellet gun, whatever is cheap and accessible. Then I'd get a micrometer so that I can take exacting measurements, and I'd religiously stick to them. I'd go to these lengths because I'd be proud of it after putting in all that work, I'd look forward to using it, and I know I won't have skimped on anything. All the details would be right, I wouldn't be wondering what goes on the top, or the bottom, or the front.

I guess what I'm saying is that you'll look at these models in 6 months and laugh, then the models you make in 6 months, you'll look back at them in a year and you'll laugh. It's a huge challenge to remake something in a modelling package, and guns would be one of the most fun aspects, but there's a lot of practice involved, not in the techniques needed but the quality control aspect. It's easy to fall in love with your own models and I feel like a bit of a turd, because it might sound like I'm having a go at them, what I'm saying is your your own critic at the end of the day, and if your tough on yourself you'll improve more - if you think those models are perfect then you'll never get very much better. Self critique is the most important - set some high goals and you'll reach them eventually, like making a gun that's indistinguishable from the original in every way, then put that in a game and see it working just like the real thing... well I don't think work gets any more rewarding than that for a weapons modeler.

So I suggest that you find a toy gun, something that is a decent scale if you have no micrometer (which is a super accurate measuring device) - then try and make a model of it that is so much like it, it's own mother could get them mixed up. Get to know the gun, like watch youtube videos, look for reference images. It's best to pick a gun that you really want to model and find a toy of it, or a BB gun, then get stuck into it like your being paid.

I probably lost your interest some time ago with this post, but just thought I'd post up how I think you go from making weapons to being a skilled weapon modeller. If you see a gun and think about how you'd like to make a model of it, then your already there, you just need to force the quality tolerance in your own work.

Keep at it, and anyone else for that matter who is making weapons - your only as good as your next weapon model.


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Mazz426
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Posted: 13th Aug 2009 18:42
thanks for the detailed response but unfortunately things like gun replicas, BB guns and even paintball guns have very strick regulations and even a fake gun that doesn't do anything can have an required age of purchase so that is the reason I have been having to use google as my reference, however i will still try to find stuff like that and thank you for the help

some have greatness thrust upon them - W. Shakespeare
teamhalo
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Posted: 13th Aug 2009 21:16
I suggest you chamfer some of the edges on the mac and add a mesh smooth modifier to the retractable stock as those stocks are cylindrical. Other than that they look pretty good if you were going for the low poly look, but I did notice that in different areas of the model have higher numbers of polygons(barrels etc.), you should work on balancing out you polygons. Good Stuff.
Mazz426
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Posted: 14th Aug 2009 17:02 Edited at: 14th Aug 2009 17:02
thanks for the responces guys and here is a new samuri sword, I've tried to make it as low poly as possible, I'd tell you how many there are but i still don't know how to check poly counts in blender, that information may help if someone knows thanks


some have greatness thrust upon them - W. Shakespeare

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SJHooks
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Posted: 14th Aug 2009 19:19
Quote: "poly counts in blender, that information may help if someone knows thanks"
Oh it's quite simple. Just look at the top right corner:
When in edit mode you can select the entire model (all the vertices/edges/faces) and then press ctrl+T to make all the faces triangles. But honestly I wouldn't do that, I would save the model with all the quad and tri polies, and if I did want to triangulate all the faces, then I would save it as another file (i.e. Sword - 2.blend). Otherwise it is much more easier to edit if all the faces are quads and tris.
Mazz426
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Posted: 15th Aug 2009 01:21
Thank you, I'm not at my computer right now but when I am I'll let you know. I've also rendered a static animation of the sword swinging and slashing which I'll upload later, thanks

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Mazz426
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Posted: 16th Aug 2009 18:33 Edited at: 16th Aug 2009 18:34
here is a helmet that i made, i was thinking of judge dredd at the time so thats sort of what i wanted a bit anyway heres the screen and please give some feedback


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SJHooks
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Posted: 16th Aug 2009 19:08
Hey Nice work. Love the texturing. You are also using a normal map right? If not, here's a web I've recently been to about making diffuse, normal, and specular maps in photoshop, but It should work the same way for other programs, like "The Gimp". http://www.moddb.com/tutorials/building-essential-texture-maps-for-material-shaders-using-photoshop/2
nackidno
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Posted: 16th Aug 2009 19:51
Although the models got a few errors, you are a really good texturer! Keep at it!

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 16th Aug 2009 21:35 Edited at: 16th Aug 2009 21:37
Quote: "and here is a pic of a clock that i made yesterday, i found getting the positions of the numbers for this ones texture rather hard and if anyone knows a way to do that sort of positioning easily that would be helpful"


The numbers fit on a circle really, so you would create a circle, and just draw a cross through the middle of it, and put the numbers on the cross. Then Hide the cross. Then just put the circle onto any other shape that you like. Texture it as a decal texture on a separate limb.

Mazz426
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Posted: 16th Aug 2009 21:56
thanks guys, after i texture it I'm going to be uploading a head model

@nakidno
could you tell me where i have errors, as i dont have any inverted faces that i know of, i was just wondering what you meant

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nackidno
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Posted: 16th Aug 2009 22:24
The gun doesn't seem to have a trigger and the chamber doesn't look quite right. I'm sorry, I should have said the gun model but I thought of that after I sent the post. ^^

Mazz426
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Posted: 16th Aug 2009 23:05 Edited at: 16th Aug 2009 23:05
oh right thanks, i tried to do a trigger but for some reason no matter what i did the faces always ended up flipped so i gave up.
anyway here is the head i mentioned, I'm acctually more pleased with the model than the texture for the first time. again post any C&C and if you think its good I'll make it into a whole person, so heres the pic


some have greatness thrust upon them - W. Shakespeare

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SJHooks
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Posted: 16th Aug 2009 23:37
Nice work on the head, but the textures for the eyes and mouth (etc) are a bit soft on the skin, it would kinda be better to make them stand out. There are also some things you have to take in when sculpting a head. Take this picture I took from an article of how they animated and made metal gear solid 4, (about autodesk softimage). Here:
Nocice how the eyes funnel in, that's part of the facial features on a face. Also, try making the nose rounder, and make ears. Like this image (from the same sight)
Great work, and trust me when I say that making models of living things are much harder then other objects. Living things are complex to make, they need a lot of expertise on 3D modeling to make, I still don't think I'm ready to make humans, but you never know. Nice work anyways.
Mazz426
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Posted: 18th Aug 2009 15:43 Edited at: 18th Aug 2009 16:30
hello again, thanks for the feed back, the tutorial was helpful but I've not yet finished the human head and have decided to do some more un-organic models, so here is a sword model that I've been calling crystal sword even though the blade doesn't look like crystal its more like amber or gold i guess anyway here is the render with poly count


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SJHooks
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Posted: 18th Aug 2009 18:41
Hey the sword looks great! Low poly too. Just a suggestion: Have you thought of making the blade of the sword solid? I mean metal might be smooth but on swords it looks more chiseled, and (IMO) on 3D models being solid brings out the edges. I'm not saying any change is required, just saying if up want just try it out and see if the result is what you like. I made a samurai sword a while back:
This was from my noobie days, (trust me if I showed you the model up close the texturing is pretty bad). Anyways, just saying, solid objects with a good normal map (like the ones you've been makikng) make the object look smooth, and the edges still stand out. That, and it's helpful to texture the edges of something like the blade of a sword with a darkened brush... sorta like the blade of this image:
Just saying, it makes the edges more noticable. Otherwise, pretty good model! I'm gonna take it that you're definentally not new to texturing... (and if I'm wrong and you did leave the blade solid, then I guess its the angle of the lighting along with the normals of the object from the normal map.
Mazz426
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Posted: 18th Aug 2009 21:57 Edited at: 18th Aug 2009 21:59
thanks for the advise, and solid? do you mean that the blade is one solid colour because its not, it may be the .jpg compression or the lighting, it may even be the programme I'm using to render (poser, if you haven't heard of it I'm not suprised) I've been looking for a good free 3D renderer for a while but that won't matter when i get zbrush later this year yay. anyway I'm gonna post the texture so you can see it and no I'm not new to texturing

some have greatness thrust upon them - W. Shakespeare

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SJHooks
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Posted: 18th Aug 2009 22:33
Quote: "thanks for the advise, and solid?"
You're welcome, and I mean the ability to render a face as a solid or smooth one. Here's the control panel in blender. I explained in these pictures:
. In the last post with the curvy part of the tip of the blade for the samurai sword, I made that section smooth. Really, I'm pretty sure I'm correct (I'm not the expert on normals) that when you set the faces to smooth, it makes the normals change their properties. That's why I think a normal map will pretty much do the same thing... at least that's what I think becuase of some past projects having the same result . Hope that helped a little
Mazz426
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Posted: 19th Aug 2009 15:14 Edited at: 19th Aug 2009 15:15
thanks i have on occasion used polygon smoothing but i've never like the finish so i don't really bother, anyway i took what you guys said about the head into consideration and I've made a new head that has 8 more polies but is 100x better i think. i also managed to get my head around organic texturing after looking at some examples. I did this earlier today and i have deliberately left the eyes blank as I'm not sure if i should replace them with spheres. anyway I've made a high poly version as well which i dont actually like much, I'm definately going to turn this into a whole person. any way heres the screen with the poly counts, any C&C will help thanks


some have greatness thrust upon them - W. Shakespeare

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SJHooks
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Posted: 19th Aug 2009 19:43 Edited at: 19th Aug 2009 19:49
Hey, it looks much better! I'm not trying to say that the model is bad, but over time you'll be able to make completely realistic faces. Take JFletcher's model:
Over time I'm sure you'll be able to make organic models like this. The poly count is around 2000, but really it's because (I think) the hands are flat. If he included the fingers and detail, the range of that model's polys would be around 2500-3000. But that's not the point right now, the point right now is what you asked for and that is criticism. Ok, I agree with you, the model does look much better than the first face model. Yet there is of course the parts of it that could use improvement. First I just want to ask: when you made the high poly model did you just subdivide a few times? Honestly, when you subdivide a model too much, each individual face from the begining has many normals, therefore each individual face stands out. Take this knife model I made a while back:
Model with smoothing:
And the model with subdividing (3 times) and smoothing:
Personally, for something like that human head you made, I'd say that instead of subdividing to make a "high poly version" it's better to subsurf, for it makes the model more round. Next I'm sure you know about manually making edges and faces, so I'd say what I would do is make the face( except the eyes) then trace the shape of the eyes, then I would do some extruding and manually connect the face so the eyes still funnel into the face and have a nice shape as well. Next, I really like how you improved the nose. the only real improvements I could tell you to work on the nose is that the nose, (on the sides), are kinda round and curve into the face. Remember that Solid Snake picture?
Look at the bottom-left/right sides of the nose, can you see how the nose has those little bumps that cruve from the nose inward? (It's hard to explain, if you don't understand please say and I'll edit the message with a visual example to help my horid explaining skills). Anyways, the nost also has a curve on the front... Overall this model has improoved greatly, but if you want to make the most realistic human head if you can, I'd use reference images. I went to the following website: http://www.secondpicture.com/tutorials/3d/3d_modeling_of_a_human_head_3ds_max_01.html and found these images:
and
Honestly if I were you, just to avoid any issues, use these images for practice only. And if you want to ever distribute your models, then I would say it would be safest just to draw your own human face reference images and then use those. Just save the images up there and use them for practice... (sorry for any typos that I ever make, when I type fast I sometimes click the wrong button without noticing, so yeah, that settles that). Nice Job and Good Luck!
Mazz426
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 11:20 Edited at: 20th Aug 2009 11:20
well here is a new head that i amde, this time i used a proportionally accurate image for the face and profile.
tell me what you think


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Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 12:19
The face is too flat, no offense but i wouldnt do texturing until you get really good at modeling, but thats your decision...

Great work anyway keep going
Van B
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 13:23
I think that you've fallen into a trap, that a lot of people fall into when learning head modelling, and that's relying too much of profile images, and not enough on actual modelling.

There's no easy way to make a head, no quick techniques, I think you'd be better off trying to follow some tutorials then come up with your own technique. As I said before, in 6 months you'll look back and shudder, just don't be afraid to try a completely different approach, either suggested here, or picked up in a tutorial somewhere. Once you know how to do things like edgeloops, how to split faces to make details like noses and ears, well your modelling will just get better and better.


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Mazz426
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 16:08 Edited at: 20th Aug 2009 16:08
well thanks guys, i just looked at your posts and you have pointed out all the problems i had with it myself, however it was my second attempt, and after looking at what you said i went and reaplied what i'd done but with more knowledge of what to do, the model I'm making right now I am going to turn into a whole person, as i am determined to learn more and to improve, so heres the render and please tell me what you think before i finish it as it wouldbe annoying to go back, anyway here you go


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Mazz426
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 16:36 Edited at: 20th Aug 2009 16:37
okay everyone heres a quick update on what I've done with the model since my last post


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Van B
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 16:48 Edited at: 20th Aug 2009 16:50
Can you post a wireframe version too?

Really it's the eyes that are toughest to get right, I mean other areas are easier to fix, or even replace - like the mouth for instance. There's no leeway with eyes though, so I think you'd get the most helpful feedback if you show wireframe.

I'd say it's head and shoulders (ged it!) above your last head model, looks kinda regal, like a stuffy butler type. The mouth area needs to protrude a little more, and the eye and eyebrow area need definition. The more definition you put in, the less 'special needs' the heads will look.

I would suggest that you make 2 versions of this head, 1 of them as human as you can make it look, and the other with exaggerated features, like a caricature. I think that having to make a bigger nose, and exaggerated features would give some good practice.

Looking back at JFletchers model, the guy is not exactly handsome, he has those crazy Swayze eyes, a button nose, and it looks like he lost too many bar fights. But that's what makes it such an awesome model, he has character and is defined facially to help project the sort of character he is. He looks believable, and that goes a long way in character modelling.

Keep it up, hope to see you post heads with stuff wrong with them before long - in a good way of course, maybe some scars, or go the whole hog and make some zombies. The thing is to do something interesting with each model, it keeps it... well... interesting! - spend hours making him look dapper, then spend even more time making him look like a maggot buffet. It's fun to do models like that I think, anything that lets you put an idea into practice is a good thing IMO.


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Azunaki
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 18:00
yea we need to see how your loops are.

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Mazz426
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 18:07 Edited at: 20th Aug 2009 18:08
thanks Van and what you've been saying is really what I've been trying to do, the character aspect is that i will use this model as base and buildindividual characters from the model.
heres the final result and the wireframe will be in the next post


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Mazz426
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 18:09 Edited at: 20th Aug 2009 18:12
and, guess what its the wireframe, oh and again C&C welcome, and if people want it (which i expect they won't) then ask for a download and I'll post one, also the model has 651 faces

oh and the model on the left has had several changes since the one on the right e.g. added hair and a sort of collar

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Azunaki
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 18:23
a base model is much better without any clothes on. with clothes on its much harder to go back and change the entire body then to just a few extrusions on a separate save. also for a shirt and pants they are far to boxy. the pants aren't to bad but the shirt almost looks a lego piece.

how did you model this, did you model each part as a disconnected separate part or did you extrude off and form it as you went?

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Mazz426
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 18:37
i extruded off of the starting point, the head, and the body, this is my first attempt ever at modeling a whole person in this way. the reason i added clothes was because i wanted to have my options open but not to broad. and even then i personally would find it less annoying to remove unawnted faces than to create new ones, and of course because its a base there would still be a mixture of both i dont mind that. I am going to change things like what you've said as its not finished, i do now realise that in one of the above posts I've said that it was the final version which i didn't mean, what this is is a sort of first draft. anyway thanks for the comment and advice

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Mazz426
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 18:59 Edited at: 20th Aug 2009 18:59
okay well i decided to do what you said and remove the clothes, heres a comparison pic


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heyufool1
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 19:00
Well it looks amazing if you're going for low poly. But if you aren't then I suggest adding some more shape to the arms and body.

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Mazz426
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 19:09
thanks, this model was meant to be low poly, really I'm holding off on high poly models right now as I'm waiting until i get zbrush before i do any models pushing the 1000-2000 mark

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Dared1111
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 19:16
The person is amazing for its polycount.

I find low poly is the best way to learn, then you're likely to waste less polies in the future.

SJHooks
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 19:18 Edited at: 20th Aug 2009 20:27
Yup, without the clothes the model looks better. Like I said, though, whenever you make an organic model, unless you're aiming for a cartoonish model, always try to use a reference images, they help add realism. Anyways, if you can, try rounding off the nose:
And also try adding the detail to the ear. Here is an ear I modeled a while ago, then with a simple level 1 subsurf modifier:
You don't have to if you don't want to though, the model is fine right now. Just a thing though, how did you model that head image I posted? if you split the 3D editor into two view, and then asigned one view the side view of the head, then the other the front view, and modeled in wireframe mode, then it should be simpler. It also helps to just rotate the head and fix anything wrong you didn't see in the other dimensions of the model. At least, that's what I did. Anyways, heyufool1 (... really?) is right, the model looks great for low poly. If you were going for a medium poly model, then it can use some improvement by using reference images, and so on. And just because I'm curious, can you try subsurfing the model a little? I personally think organic models like humans have ever part of their body rounded, so a nice subsurf can bring out some nice detail.
Mazz426
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 19:54 Edited at: 20th Aug 2009 19:55
okay i applied the subsurf modifier to the first model and you were right it looks better in areas, but worse in others, can you use subsurf like the subdivide feature where you can apply it to particular parts of the model or is it more like multeries where it always does it to the whole model, heres the render and also i ended up using another image for the head as the one i found was just an outline, and that way i just found it a bit easier


some have greatness thrust upon them - W. Shakespeare

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SJHooks
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 20:10 Edited at: 20th Aug 2009 20:12
subsurfing applies it to each individual mesh, or in other words if your model is entirely one mesh. There is a way to do what your asking, but it's an indirect way. You just duplicate the mesh (in object mode), then you delete the parts of the mesh you don't want to subsurf in, and leave the parts that do subsurf. Then when you subsurf the new model, you actually apply the subsurfing. Then you click to two seperate meshes, and then press ctrl+J, it merges the two seperate meshes into one. I was planning on doing this with the ears of the model, but decided not to. I would be careful though, subusrfing adds A LOT of polygons to a mesh, and therefore can ruin a model completely if you accidently save it.
Mazz426
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 20:26 Edited at: 20th Aug 2009 20:29
right okay thanks i used to do that sort of thing a lot so i know what to do, anyway i noticed more issues looking at it just now, for instance the subsurfing appears to have changed the size of the legs so i changed them back and i added some facial features that make it look a lot better, here it is and also i always tend to have my models in .obj format so that i don't ever accidentally overwrite something


some have greatness thrust upon them - W. Shakespeare

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SJHooks
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Posted: 20th Aug 2009 20:30 Edited at: 21st Aug 2009 00:16
Yeah, it is better! Like I said the only way you could improve your model is by tracing the model from an actaul reference image, unless of course you were actually going for a cartoonish sort of look. The face looks good, and I'd just like to suggest normal mapping for stuff like the hair
It really puts a nice touch on the model
Azunaki
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Posted: 21st Aug 2009 02:52
...you shouldn't wait...zbrush is good but its really only for adding extremely high detail. you should work on high poly get as high as you can. low poly isn't really hard or pushing on your own ability really only for picking up the skill.(and high poly is more the 3000-5000 range on a character...)

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