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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Ideas for Upgrade 6

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Rye
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 23:07
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I thought i would post this message to find out what other people would like to see in the next upgrade in the way of new commands. Obviously we want all bugs to be fixed but surely u have ideas for additional commands.

Maybe one of the TGC people will read this and include it.

i already emailed Lee about this idea ages ago an there is a chance it will be in U6. But i will use it to start you all off.

Share array array name(dimensions)

This command would enable multiplayer games to be created easier. All players would be able to change values in the array and there wouldnt be any data queue. The data is automatically recieved and sorted into its location. then all u need to do is read off the data as you would with any other array.

I'm really interested as to what ideas u have so post and dont be a lazy git.
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Duffer
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 23:16
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Save Object (*.dbo)
Append Object (*.dbo)
Append or Copy Frames <donor object>, <1st frame>, <last frame>, <target object>, <target object insert frame>
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David T
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Posted: 29th Aug 2003 23:46
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Distance 2D x,y,x2,y2
Distance 3D x,y,z,x2,y2,z2

I know there are functions to do it but it was save a LOT of time

ghosted objects no longer ingore objects behind them without their transparency state set to 1.

Theres no place like 127.0.0.1
There are 10 people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't
Bus station = where bus stops. Train station = where train stops. Workstation = ?
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Falelorn
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 00:09
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Collision Object objectnum, collision type

so you could place a building and have automatic collision that works

Collision Object 1, Sliding
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D Man
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 00:23
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Let 'em just fix the bugs.
Then it's all ok with me .

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spooky
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 00:32
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Totally agree with D Man - Should not create ANY new commands or features. Just go about fixing ALL outstanding bugs - have you seen list of bugs in the bug section of this forum - there's millions of the little blighters. Some should easily have made it into #5 but didn't. Some are claimed to have been fixed in #5 but weren't.

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Rye
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 00:35 Edited at: 30th Aug 2003 00:37
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WOW MAN WHAT A COOL IDEA (sarcasm) meant for the guy above you.

i know all the bugs need to be sorted, i was just curious as to what ideas other people had in there brains.
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Rye
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 00:52
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Just had another idea. How about a command that will switch servers. one for all those people that are making MMORPG's. Would be useful so that the games could be larger and support more players.
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Ian T
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 00:53
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'How about a command that will switch servers'

......it dosen't work like that........

--Mouse

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Rye
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 01:02
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it could be a command that simplifies disconnecting and reconnecting without having the player to do anything.
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DMXtra
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 01:12
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Some notes about the real upgrade 6 (not just wishing)

1) Any bugs not fixed in upgrade 5 will be fixed in upgrade 6.

2) The Nodetree system has a new collision already built in. Its supposed to be a nice and fast collision system and even includes eliptical collisions.

3) Save Object (*.dbo) and Append Object (*.dbo) are also still scheduled to make it into upgrade 6.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
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Rye
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 01:33
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good but not all of us will be using the nodetree, and some of us may just want some new simple commands like David89 wanting distance commands. they would not be hard to do, and they would simplify things.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 01:46 Edited at: 30th Aug 2003 01:55
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The only things I can think of are :

A) Beams
B) Some sort of scripting system (but IanM's doing something like that)
C) Allow the refresh rate of FSEX mode to be user-defined.
D) Finer control over AVI animation (step a frame at a time etc)
E) Ability to play QT files - you cant at the moment as there aren't any Microsoft QT codecs.


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ZomBfied
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 02:34
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Yeah fix the bugs.

But... while we're wishing... make "ENDCASE" optional. In other words get rid of it and make the compiler ignore it for backward compatibility. It's kinda redundant.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 02:39 Edited at: 30th Aug 2003 02:40
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Endcase isn't redundant - its needed so the compiler knows where each case ends. It should be optional so one case can run into another though (except for the last case statement).

Proper multi-texturing would be nice too.


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Chenak
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 02:50
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I just want them to fix the bsp problems, there's been bugs with the bsp collision since the first day dbpro was released.

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Ian T
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 03:30
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I wouldn't call it a bug, more that the code has never been good enough for any serious use... as Patch 6 is the 'world' patch I do hope this is fixed!

--Mouse

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 03:48 Edited at: 30th Aug 2003 03:48
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Dont forget FULL access to the DX9 handles and sprite & object structures and handles.


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Fallout
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 03:49
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Bug fixes. What's the point of putting icing on the cake if the sponge in the middle has bugs in it?

Also, an accelerated delete object command, if possible. At the moment it makes a huge dent in performance if you delete multiple objects in one program loop.

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APEXnow
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 04:08 Edited at: 30th Aug 2003 04:09
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I'm not sure as to the behaviour of the DELETE OBJECT command but I've also noticed that if you're deleting 200-1000 objects in one go, it starts of slowly, then speeds up through the loop. I thought that if the DELETE OBJECT had two forms, one for a single ID and the second for an ID range, would this make any difference to the performance depending on how the DarkBASIC Pro. engine handled deleting objects. i.e. DELETE OBJECT 1, or DELETE OBJECT 500, 1000 (removing object IDs within the range).

Just a thought of course.


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zircher
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 05:30
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I'm sure it has been mentioned in the past, but I'd LOVE to see an option explicit command. I've lot count of the hours wasted in debugging code caused by a simple typo.
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the_winch
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 05:42
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I would really like an option explicit command (all variables need to be defined).
If the ide was ever updated it would proberly have such a feature now, perhaps one people writing replacement ides would like to add?
It would be quite nice if the debugger could be fixed, it's unreliable especially in step through mode.
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Fallout
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 06:25
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I will second/third that, for sure! Option Explicit is essential. It'll literally half the amount of debugging required for almost every programmer using DB. And that has to be a good thing.

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Bulleyes
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 08:57
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I would prefer if animation on 3-D object texture are done somewhat like sprite animation, i.e. specify an image splited into cells of animation sequence.

Currently, DBpro is using AVI file for animated texture, which I personally don't find it very useful, especially when you need 8-bit alpha channel in your animation (as in most case), for example, explosions.

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jrowe
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 13:46
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I'd like to see the Level of Detail Terrain commands finished because I'm sich of working with matrices!

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Scraggle
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 14:33
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I'd like to see more windows commands. I know DBP is pimarily a games language but reading the cover of the box it is also a windows application package. So why not include more windows commands? A standard file selector would be most welcome even in some games.

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Scraggle
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 14:44
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MP3 tagging commands would go down well!

For example:

Return string =TRACKNAME(MP3 filename)
Return string =TRACK TITLE(MP3 filename)
Return integer=TRACK NUMBER(MP3 filename)
Return string =ARTIST NAME(MP3 filename)
Return string =ALBUM NAME(MP3 filename)
Return string =LYRICS(MP3 filename)
Return integer=RELEASE YEAR(MP3 filename)
load image ALBUM ART(MP3 filename),1

There are other items in an MP3 tag like; Tempo, Preference, Situation, Genre etc. and it would be good if all of these could be accessed.
And also including the commands to write them would be helpful.

Nine lives to choose from and I get stuck with this one!
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ZomBfied
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 15:07
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Endcase is redundant. The compiler should know to end the case when it hits the next case statement or the endselect statement.

select a
case 1
do this
case 2
do that
case 3
do the other thing
endselect

pretty easy.
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APEXnow
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 15:27
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Scraggle, probably would be better to have an additional PERFORM CHECKLIST FOR MP3TAGS or something as a familiarity of the language.


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Easily Confused
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 15:50 Edited at: 30th Aug 2003 15:58
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Yes, more bug fixes, I think I read somewhere that patches 5 & 6 concentrate mainly on bug fixes (well...I think I read that somewhere)
Edit: Feel sorry for Lee now, just looked at the bug forum, a lot of work for him to do

@ZomBfieid: I have to agree there, by removing endcase it would make everything more readable.

Here's an old Patch 5 wish list (I'm in there somewhere) which has stuff that could be included in the future:
http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=8303&b=1

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Darkflame
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 15:50 Edited at: 30th Aug 2003 15:56
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Some more Sprite functions, to simulate ways of mixing images.
(addative, subtraction, dodge,ect ect).

To get an idea look at the options for "layer" effects in PSP or Photoshop.

eg:
~~~~~~~
Mixsprite [destination],[source1],[source2],[Mix type Number]
~~~~~~~

I think this is a really needed feature for anyone doing 2D games or manipulating graphics.

"The man who says it cannot be done is generally interrupted by someone doing it." ~ Elbert Hubbard
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 17:02
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And how would you know when you've finished one case statement (and you dont want it to fall through to the next one), without an endcase ? You wont be able to judge it just by the next case statement, as case statements just (usually) boil down to jump tables.


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IanM
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 17:05
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You're thinking in terms of C there.

Technically, it *is* a redundant command, but personally, I think ENDCASE makes the code visually clearer.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 17:11
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Quite true, I was...


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Ian T
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 17:45
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Yup, it's always good to finish what you start

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 18:28
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But is it ever finished ?


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Preston C
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 18:43
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Nothing can ever be finished, everything can get better and better, but never finished.



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Scraggle
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 18:58
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Quote: "Scraggle, probably would be better to have an additional PERFORM CHECKLIST FOR MP3TAGS or something as a familiarity of the language.
"

Whilst I agree that this would be an easy way to read the tag file. How would you go about writing it if not by having individual commands as I demonstrated?

Nine lives to choose from and I get stuck with this one!
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Jmansr
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 19:25
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puzzles can be finished.

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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 20:09
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I think the best thing to do would be

1. Iron out all the bugs
2. Dont put loads of new commands in, just a few to do with world building as this is the major thing people need at the moment. A portal and all the level rendering stuff is needed to make games run faster.

"It's amazin' what you can do with a computer and access to t'internet"
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Rye
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 20:42
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its not the only thing people want. Its pointless working on a multiplayer game if the current multiplayer command set isnt good enough.

A lot of people here would like to make some kind of mmorpg. At the moment it is probably impossible unless some dll's are created that extend the multiplayer capeabilities of DBP.

At the moment the current multiplayer commands are hard enough to use just to make any kind of multiplayer game, forget about Masively multiplayer ones. All the examples i have seen run slowly because the players computers have to be in sync with each other. And i know of other languages that are no way near as good as DBP overall but they do have better multiplayer commands.

PLEASE PLEASE PLASE CAN NO ONE ELSE SAY THEY JUST WANT BUGS FIXING
IT HAS BEEN SAID ALREADY SO THERE IS NO NEED FOR U TO SAY IT!!!
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Fallout
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 21:11
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I forgot .. working object interpolation between two set object frame commands.

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UberTuba
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 21:15
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binary mdls

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UberTuba
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and the fact is, no-ones gunna make an mmporg for a looooonnngggg
time, so why add in commands to do that

the artist formally known as darkfluff
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Rye
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 22:07
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They may help for other multiplayer games. Maybe one that is made for more than 2 people, which would mean sending lots of pieces of data for each player(eg. x,y,z co-ords, rotations, shooting data etc..). The current command set would leave a huge data queue, which would then need to be recieved and sorted. One or two extra commands like i suggested would make things infinitely easier and faster than current methods.

And what u said about no-one making one for a long, bullsh*t!!!

If someone put the time and effort into one as they have with other programs then one could be created, it wouldnt be easy but it would be nowhere near as impossible as u say. Maybe if there were one or two extra commands that simplified things, someone might have a serious attempt.
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Preston C
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 22:13
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I want them to make some hidden commands!

How about one where it shows a chicken, who walks into the middle of the screen, then an anvil falls down and crushes em! That'd be a funny command!



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Rye
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 22:35
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the only way the chicken would appear on the screen would be if the creator used the command. Which means the command wouldnt be hidden. But i like the idea of a chicken walking on the screen.

Maybe if it was a random occurance on every game,and to get rid of it you had to press print screen.
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Rob K
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 22:39 Edited at: 30th Aug 2003 22:44
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What is in U6 so far...

- Node Trees (& Portals) : Make your game run faster
- CSG Commands : Maplet / Cartography Style cutting shapes out of objects using other objects
- Vertex Commands (finally!) : Direct & much faster manipulation of the vertex data of objects (no need to use memblocks + the current solution of CHANGE MESH is slow and wipes out any special FX applied)

There probably are a few other things, but those are the main highlights AFAIK.

Personally, I feel that arrays in types would be very welcome.

Proper polygon to polygon collision is really an essential as well.

I think the BSP collision system needs to be changed to be honest, as it is very fiddly to get working absolutely right at the moment. The main problem is the documentation and the fact that the example BSP demo doesn't have any stairs or other "tricky" collision places. INTERSECT BSP would be nice as well, then we could program our own sliding collision.

@Ryan

I think you need to rework the way that you send data around, I'm sure a few extra commands would make this easier, but firstly combine everything into one message, secondly, you could try sending relative movement instructions, rather than absolute positions each loop for example. If you are careful the current mp commands will suffice.

You talked about all the PCs being in sync - that isn't a worry if you are careful. The game StarWraith was written using DB Extended's mp commands (effectively the same as those in DBP), and it works fine on multiplayer - which prooves that it is possible. Read the design doc under TECHNICAL DOCUMENTS carefully.


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 23:12
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two things i'd like to see...
a PROPER sdk, which gives us full access to the engine - if it has to be with a full License meaning we pay TGC $50k or something if we use it for anything cept DBP then thats fair enough ... personally wouldn't even mind too much if there was a policy for the SDK to be un a GPL kinda thing where if you use it for profit you pay for it, else you don't.
anyway we can actually have some proper access to the engine though is what i care about more.

second is data encapsulations within '{' '}' brackets.
allowing us to pass large strings of data into a specific encapsulation buffer so that plugins like ASM could go from several string interpretation lines to simply

ENCAPDATA{
ps.1.1
tex t0
mul r0.rgb, c0, t0
}
Create Pixel Shader From File 1,ENCAPDATA

or something similar would make things alot simpler at times.

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IanM
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Posted: 30th Aug 2003 23:32
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That sounds like it's a job for a decent preprocessor ... which is what I would like to see.
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