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3 Dimensional Chat / 3D Compo: Back to Basics!

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David Gervais
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Posted: 1st Apr 2010 13:52 Edited at: 2nd Apr 2010 03:19


"3D Compo: Back to Basics!"

Using basic shapes, assemble them into a new object. The trick will be using your imagination to come up with something to impress the judges.

Rules:

1) You are only allowed to use these basic shapes.. Box, Sphere, Cylinder, Torus, Cone, GeoSphere, Tube, Pyramid, or Plane.
2) You can not 'extrude' any of the basic shapes.
3) You are allowed to 'distort' any of the basic shapes using non-uniform scaling, regular scaling, sub-division or removing dots, edges or surfaces. (just the basic functions we all love)
4) Use of multiple objects is expected, but if you have something that only needs 1 basic shape and the ultimate texture, go for it!
5) Texturing the 'shapes' is encouraged.
6) A 640x480 Rendering of your creation is 'Required'
7) Have fun.

Deadline April 26


Cheers!

lazerus
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Posted: 1st Apr 2010 16:39
Ahh hmm...

What to do what to do...



bergice
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Posted: 1st Apr 2010 16:56
I was thinking a black sheep made of 2 spheres and 4 cylinders but i discarded it

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Mazz426
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Posted: 1st Apr 2010 17:14
wanted to ask, z brush has a feature where you use what they call z spheres which are just spheres that you essentially paint onto another sphere, would it be okay to use that?

The crazy
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Posted: 1st Apr 2010 17:37
Mazz426: I wish! ZSpheres are way powerful, I'm sure it's not allowed.
Isocadia
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Posted: 1st Apr 2010 18:53
Well, it are just spheres and they follow the criteria. So I believe it should be allowed.

Isocadia

David Gervais
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Posted: 1st Apr 2010 20:01
I'd say just be sure to post a before and after scene so we know that 'basic shapes' are under all the z-brush effects.

Cheers!

Oolite
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Posted: 1st Apr 2010 23:52 Edited at: 1st Apr 2010 23:53
I have a few problems with this competition. You're perfectly capable of making a high res character with boxes, you could just make each box represent a single polygon, using only one face showing and have the rest of the polygons hidden inside the cage that you're creating. Of course it will be flat shaded and as long as you got the position of vertices exactly right then there won't be any holes. Sure it would be a lot of work to get done but there is nothing to stop someone doing this.
I guess the lines are just a little blurry to me. So would you be able to subdivide the boxes or does it just have to be the standard 6 faced cube, etc?
If you're allowing Zpheres, I'd say, make sure that its the standard zsphere model and not the adaptive mesh. Defeats the point.

yes/no

Also, could anyone just potentially start with a sphere(Rule 1) in ZBrush and sketch out a full character head(According to Rule 3, i'm not allowed to extrude, but all ZBrush does is push and pull polygons, the only change would be subdividing and it isn't stated that I can't subdivide along the way, even if I can't I can just start with a super high res sphere and start from there.)? Surely this is a major advantage over someone who's putting a few primitives together to make a tank.
It might be best to clear some of these up, I personally don't like the idea of using ZBrush in this task.

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lazerus
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 00:29 Edited at: 2nd Apr 2010 00:30
We are high maintenance lol.

How bout no zbrush?

It dosnt comply with the rules, or very at least bends them too much to be appropreate.

Zspheres are not a actual primative that can be found in most programs and so are not a primitive by outside perseption.

Just keep to the primatives shown in the banner.

Its the most fair and logical approach right?

See you guys made me act 'responsible' again =____=

David Gervais
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 00:34
I see your point.. gonna have to give this some thought to clarify the rules then. I was under the impression that z-brush just played with the normal map to add depth or bumps.

How about an addendum to the rules.. no boolene operations?

I'd guess then that z-spheres would not be accepted?

It appears that I'm flying solo, BigAdd and company have been very silent of late.

Maybe I'll make a set of basic objects, attach them and then you can only use those. cloning and distorting would be allowed. Any ideas to help make this clearer?

Cheers!

Mazz426
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 01:12
Z spheres are just spheres however I understand the complaints, I won't use z spheres but excluding z brush is unfair, I myself will use blender but some may find excluding certain programs more unfair than anything else, I wouldn't recommend doing that, I've seen people get very annoyed over stuff like that, providing a set of primitives may be the best course of action

henry ham
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 01:17
im a 3d max user & there are a basicset of primitaves

http://3ds-max-unravelled.blogspot.com/2010/01/standard-primitives.html

i think they should give everyone enough to work with

cheers henry

lazerus
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 01:36
I can live with that list.

Any objections/modifications?

Honestly, you'd only need a box and allow welding + distortion (decreasing the poly size, not increasing through extruding and alike) inside that single entity.

SJHooks
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 02:41
Lol that dragon head in the woodworks competition would have destroyed in this one . But who wudda guessed. This one sounds much easier to do

Oolite
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 03:01 Edited at: 2nd Apr 2010 03:02
Quote: "How about an addendum to the rules.. no boolene operations?

I'd guess then that z-spheres would not be accepted?"

Well technically you could create the same effect as Zspheres in another application by layering spheres. Quite counterproductive if you ask me but gains the same results. I would personally allow Zspheres as an entry, but it won't be winning anything because all it is doing is laying spheres in the shape of a human, not that impressive at all if you ask me.
If it were me and as I assumed what this competition was about, was using base primitives to mould an object. I would personally create objects to import, so no subdividing, no welding or deleting of polygons/vertices, just translate, scale and rotate should be allowed.

I'm just following this.
Quote: "Using basic shapes, assemble them into a new object. Like leggo blocks,"

You don't remove the side of a Lego block when it doesn't suit what you are doing, do you? If you do you're weird. This challenge is about tweaking existing objects to fit your needs, without destroying the properties of the original object. I think you could use zbrush if you want but there is no point seeing as you can't create or destroy polygons. I think its fairer on the whole. Think about it, if you could create or destroy polygons, theres no point in this challenge being a primitive based challenge. Also, experience Zbrushers can take a sphere and turn it into a head in a couple of hours, whereas someone in max or blender would have a much harder time doing so.

Ultimately it's up to Mr Gervais, but i believe a download with the primitives in is the best way to go, with you only being able to translate, rotate, and scale the vertices, polygons and edges. This still retains the topology of the original primitive and still gives enough freedom for creativity.

David Gervais
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 03:18
The rules have been edited. I hope it is now clear to everyone.

Thanks for your input!

Cheers!


lazerus
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 03:23 Edited at: 2nd Apr 2010 03:25
Quote: "Lol that dragon head in the woodworks competition would have destroyed in this one . But who wudda guessed. This one sounds much easier to do "


Forgot all about him. - short attention span -

Yeah that was very fun to make, though i lost the files when i did something in max lol. I applied it as a new direcitory and it screwed up a little so yeah lol.

Got a few ideas cooking already.

Im going to make a few things for this, Ill create textures for each primative as filler for the programmers. Then ill make a seperate piece as my entry.

I love working at night, i get all my best ideas, cba quoting so look at my location. Im 90% there most of the time lol

An ive rambled again.

Edit; craps post above.

So no rectangles?

Deathead
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 03:24 Edited at: 2nd Apr 2010 03:30
I am most definately entering, time to use my pixel texturing skills to test(which there was none in the first place).lol *don't worry*



Oolite
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 03:28
Sorted. Are we still allowed to start each primitive with any subdivision level?


David, I'm gonna send you an email about something completely unrelated within the hour, get back to me when you have the time.

SJHooks
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 08:09 Edited at: 2nd Apr 2010 19:58
Quote: "So no rectangles?"

Um...:
Quote: "...You are only allowed to use these basic shapes.. Box, Sphere, [etc.], Plane...you are allowed to 'distort' any of the basic shapes using non-uniform scaling, regular scaling, [etc.]"


lazerus
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 12:46
Sorry it was late when i read that. I might get my best ideas but thats becasue i can barely function lol.

David Gervais
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 13:48
Quote: "Are we still allowed to start each primitive with any subdivision level?"


I thought it was obvious, how you create the first primitive is up to you, a 1x1x1 box or a 5x5x5 box is still a box primitive.. what it will effect is the final shape if you subdivide it or distort it.

for example, a flashlight is basically a cylinder with one end scaled bigger for the 'light'. (or more specifically the last 2-3 segments of the cylinder are scaled.) if you make a 2"x4"x8' box/rectangle,.. poof! you got the basic building block to frame up a house LoL. Seriously you people always tend to over complicate things, not in itself a bad thing, but you make things harder than they need to be.

Cheers!

P.S. I never said this compo was going to be followed by a programmers compo, (the 'Get me in the game' compo that kind of fizzled was for that) but that could change if we get enough entries. So, if you want to make multiple entries, go ahead, it might be the thing that kicks off the programmers compo.

bergice
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 14:17
Wow cant we just keep this to BASIC SHAPES for now?

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HowDo
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 00:11
IMO
just a thought, it should be shapes available on the lowest free package.

Dark Physics makes any hot drink go cold.
Quik
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 00:40
yeah i totally agree with u HowDo


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lazerus
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 00:52
Just realese a download of objects...

please...

My head has started to hurt with all these random loopholes lol.

High maintinence seems to be a understatement now.

The crazy
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 01:10 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2010 01:11
My current work in progress. Seems like the rules are still changing a lot so I made sure I only used objects that I see in the picture at the top of this post. I'm going to stick to that, even when the rules are definitely finalized. Seems like the safe road for me.

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lazerus
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 01:31
Well crazy, you out did maz thier lol.

Ill start mine after ive texture what im working on now.

Mazz426
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 01:35
Hmm looks like I'm gonna have to step it up a notch, great model so far

The crazy
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 02:49 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2010 02:51
Thanks guys Mazz, your hand was inspiration for mine haha.

Just an update with the chest:

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David Gervais
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 03:24 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2010 03:24
just a little note, the only 3D modeling program I use is Anim8or.. it's free, and except for the torus I can make all the other shapes in less than a minute. pyramid is a box (cube) that you select one face, 'scale' the face to join all the corner dots, select the dots with group select and 'merge' the points. voila a pyramid. Even if a 'tube' is not part of the basic shapes in Anim8or, it's a cinch to make one. I never said you couldn't extrude if necessary to 'build the initial' basic shape, the rule says you cannot 'extrude the basic shape' (that implies once it's made.)

once again you guys are making this into rocket science.. if you are confused, pick a single shape and see what you can do with it. turn a set of boxes into a replica of stonehenge.. it wouldn't be hard, and the trick would be in the texturing..

It seems that every time I try to make it 'simple' the more complicated it gets.. I'm soon gonna loose patience and force you all to use one shape to make 1001 objects.

Ok, I'm off now.. <sigh> you are a high maintenance crowd. lol

Cheers!

Red Eye
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 10:53
What to make?


hmmmm, nice compo, tikning what to do....

...Kranox Studios!
Mazz426
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 15:58 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2010 15:58
hey i've decided to do the terminator arm and was wondering if the followin ' distortion' was allowed



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David Gervais
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 22:26
Basically if you are just moving vertices it's all good, it the 'extruding' want to have people avoid, because it can destroy the original basic shape so that it is no longer a basic shape.

In your example it's still obvious it is a cylinder/tube.

Cheers!

Red Eye
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 22:29 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2010 22:32
My Entry: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=168230&b=3 W.I.P



Quote: "Basically if you are just moving vertices it's all good"


Damn, didnt knew that!

lazerus
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 22:40
I have my sketched out now.

Ill have to up the design + detail to compete with Crazy thier ^__^


Compettion ^________________________^

Highlight of my month, well my insepertation anyway.

The crazy
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Posted: 13th Apr 2010 03:49 Edited at: 13th Apr 2010 03:49
Just an update on my model.

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SJHooks
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Posted: 13th Apr 2010 07:01
Mouth reminds me of the iron giant

JLMoondog
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Posted: 13th Apr 2010 10:01 Edited at: 13th Apr 2010 10:03
Red Eye:

I posted in your other topic, but just incase you didn't see it, here is the request again. Mind showing my a wireframe? I did release the models for the telescope scene for free. Just for clarification. Even the textures look similar. I'm not accusing, just want to see make sure.

These are the original models:

Original Scene:

Original scene download:
http://www.mediafire.com/?zm2q3m4mtmw

Now the map I did get off the internet, so not worried about that.

I apologize for hijacking.


David Gervais
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Posted: 13th Apr 2010 13:51
Just a fyi, I don't think this is a case of someone using your model Josh, first off his proportions are 'different', he has 4 segments to the scope, you have 3, he has a wider base to his compass, yours is almost photo-realistic, his looks like a simple 3D model.

A quick image search for "Telescope and compass on a map" brought up quite a few hits. Too many hits to make me think this is in any way a 'unique scene'

Josh, Your rendering is in my humble opinion worthy of commercial use. It's that good. A truly professional model and render.

and that is my take on this situation.

Cheers!

JLMoondog
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Posted: 13th Apr 2010 17:39 Edited at: 13th Apr 2010 17:47
I see where your coming from David, and in no way am I accusing him, as I stated. I just like a piece of mind. It does look like he used mine as a reference, as it's early similar. After closely looking at it here are somethings that are making me nervous:

Both telescopes are made of 18 sided cylinders:

The leather texture looks dead on besides the color(might be my eyes, but I can trace similar leather creases):

Being separate objects, having more then two sections is possible:


Now, I'm not accusing him of claiming my model as his own, but it does look like he used mine as a reference and used some of the textures. The render also looks like it's from TS, which is what it was made in. Oddly enough the telescope and lens color indexes are exactly the same. I used black for the lens to create a sharper reflection. Only difference with the copper texture is mine has a bump map where is doesn't.

My works been stolen before, so I apologize for making a big deal over this. If I'm in the wrong, you can slap me or something. All I want to see is a wireframe of his work.

Sorry again for high-jacking. I'm actually building a bike model for this comp. Maybe I'll finish.

Edit: Did a quick render with no effects and shaders...looks very similar now...



Mazz426
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Posted: 13th Apr 2010 19:35 Edited at: 13th Apr 2010 19:37
i dont think hes copied it, just feel glad that someone has draw inspiration from you, also the leather texture, heres the first one i found on google

all this would require to get what hes achieved is some brightness changes, zooming in and adjusting the contrast and some hue adjusting. i don't think hes copied you personally...

JLMoondog
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Posted: 13th Apr 2010 19:55
Nah, that texture is completely different and looks nothing like either or.

Like I said, I'm not saying he took my work, he might have used mine as a reference. I'd still like to see the wireframes.


Quik
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Posted: 13th Apr 2010 20:14
it sure look familiar=) a wireframe could be good, i surely understand ur reaction josh, u should be honored either way, that someone would take inspiration from u, or even, if thats the case, that someone took ur model, because they thought it looked so darn good, i would have been honored either way=)

hope this mess turns out good..

iam not entering this compo since, well, i really need to finish one of my own projects tbh, long time since..


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
JLMoondog
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Posted: 13th Apr 2010 22:55
My paranoia aside, I started on my entry, about 2 hours of work. Mostly sketching out how to build the bike with primitives, helps to decide ahead of time what to use where.



Actually a bit of fun to do, hopefully I can finish it in time, want to add as much detail as possible.


Blobby 101
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Posted: 14th Apr 2010 01:02
wow josh! are the treads on that tire all just resized cubes?

JLMoondog
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Posted: 14th Apr 2010 02:02 Edited at: 14th Apr 2010 05:43
Yes, they are all individual cubes. Gonna change them up again, the outer treads should be offset from the center, wont be hard to rotate.

edit:
Slow progress...this is crazy, and after the 70th primitive I just said, "screw optimization!". Though I'm having more fun then I thought and building just from reference pictures is great practice. After this is finished I think I'll make a proper modeled version for kicks.



Red Eye
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Posted: 14th Apr 2010 07:10 Edited at: 14th Apr 2010 07:13
Yo buddy, I am certain that you are far better, and I did not say that you arent. But one thing is sure, I made that all on my own. The crappy models and the crappy textures. Altough the marmer is from cgtextures(marmer = " the leather), the map is from google images. And i dont see how u could doubt that my texturs looked like yours, as far as I am concerned mine is crap, and yours looks like I could put my hand on the screen and grab it, that photorealistic.

I would NEVER steal anything from someone, and especiially not from you, as I respect your work. I will post a wireframe of my creappy models, and show you that it isnt the same.

Can't you just say that its crap, i can handle it no worrys, but just dont say i stoled it. I am long enough on this forum to know that every single artist (bad or good) needs to be respected and give critic on his of her work.

Posting wireframes soon, I wont win anyway so....

ANyway,

Quote: "and that is my take on this situation."


JLMoondog
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Posted: 14th Apr 2010 08:07
For the third time, I'm not saying you stole it. I'm just saying they look similar. Just wanted to see a wireframe for my own sanity.


The crazy
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Posted: 14th Apr 2010 17:19
Not to rag on the model guys, but it's a telescope. This drama sucks.

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