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Work in Progress / Landscape generator for DBPro and Blitz

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smaas
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Posted: 10th May 2010 17:14
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I few weeks ago I downloaded the BlitzTerrain DLL. It looked
like a great product but to test it I needed a tool to build not
only a heightmap but also a environment map.

So here it is, after a few weeks of hard works my landscape
generator. It can build huge terrains, add roads and foilage.
There are two examples in to download. The biggest took me
3 minutes to build, 8 minutes to save and it took 30 minutes
real time to walk from one side of the map to the other. It has
miles of road and tracks, woodland (it has 69987 trees!)
grassland and deserts.

More information, screenshots and two examples to download can be found on www.edam1740.nl/landgen . More will follow.


Steven


[img]c:\\landgen.jpg[/img]
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KISTech
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Posted: 10th May 2010 19:41 Edited at: 10th May 2010 19:58
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WOW, just WOW. The words I was mumbling to myself while walking through the terrain I can't post here, but WOW..

From the looks of it I'm assuming you are using Plant Life and Tree Magic? It looks quite good.

There's only 2 problems I saw. There wasn't a framerate display, but I could tell it was low. My system is one of the faster ones and it was struggling to keep it going.

The other was in the desert on the 2048 x 2048 map. There seems to be a single pixel seam visible around each tile. That may be your texture, or it may be Blitz. I couldn't tell you for sure.

My only question now is, when do we get to use the tool?

[edit]
Here is a picture of the seam. It's doing it in the forest too. Sorry if this is Blitz. I haven't been keeping up with the Blitz thread completely.



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smaas
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Posted: 10th May 2010 23:16
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Thanks,

yes, trees and plant are made with plantlife and treeMagik but I used the shader from treeparty (trees from treeparty where to slow). I put a new version with the FPS on the site together with the DBPro source.

I haven't had time to look at the performance but the problem is with the shader and blitz. If anybody has any ideas I like to hear them. This is the first serious thing I did in DBPro.

The seam is a know problem and has to do with the shader I wrote. I had to use texture atlases. Normally a shader can only handle 16 textures and I use far more. The seam come from the function I use to calculate the mipmaps in the atlases. I will look into it.

I cleaning up the tool and hope to put it on the website this week.

Steven

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Dr Tank
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Posted: 11th May 2010 05:23
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This looks really cool. I think I'm not your target demographic: my comp is on the slow end of the spectrum. It takes a couple of minutes to load up, and then runs at about 2 frames per second! I'll check this out again if you can make some speed improvements.

Have you got mipmapping on the textures? Seems like not. That can give a bit of a speed boost IIRC.
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The Slayer
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Posted: 11th May 2010 08:58
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Yeah, this looks awesome! And, I would like to try it out, but unfortunaly your link doesn't give me anything??
Is this the correct link: www.edam1740.nl/landgen ??

Cheers

Slayer rules!!! Yeaaah, man!
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smaas
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Posted: 11th May 2010 12:20
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I'll try to improve the performance. I know it's problem, I have a midrange computer and only get around 7 to 13 fps.

The site is www.edam1740.nl/landgen. I was probably updating it when you tried to reach it. But if you can't here are some more pictures from the site






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Jeff Miller
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Posted: 11th May 2010 14:28
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The link works. Did you precede it with "http://"?

Running the source code DBPro file requires MatrixUtilities, Extends, BlitzTerrain, and Kaedroho's anisotropic filtering dll.

It also calls another dll that I can't find with a command "TSS_message_box." Where might I find that dll? (I can run the source code by temporarily commenting out the line that contains that command.)
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KISTech
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Posted: 11th May 2010 18:55
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Sadly I do not have all of the required addons to compile it.

To create a link in the forum:


Produces:
http://www.edam1740.nl/landgen

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BlueKlayman
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Posted: 12th May 2010 00:44
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Amazing...just.. amazing...

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Jeff Miller
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Posted: 12th May 2010 13:19 Edited at: 12th May 2010 13:20
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KISTech -

You can comment out the only call to whatever this TSS dll is if your card supports anisotropic filtering.

Matrix Utilities, BlitzTerrain, and Kaedroho's anisotropic filtering dlls are free.

Regarding Extends, he is not using the Extends real time sky system, rather he is using an older and more flexible system and he includes the shaders and media that are needed. You can code around the few Extends commands he is using with conventional (but lengthier) DBPro coding. In one case he is using an Extends shortcut to calculate a 3D distance, which you can problably do with Pythogoras equations. In another section he is using Extends to compile a list of billboards and he subsequently calls another Extends command to turn all of them to face the camera, which you can do with an array and a loop.

smaas -
The source code is very interesting and instructive. I thank you for sharing this with our community.
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smaas
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Posted: 12th May 2010 16:46
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Thank for all your comments.
I put a new version on my site

- I rewrote the terrain shader increasing the performance by 4 times
- replace the tree shader with a billboard shader
- rewrote the DBPro code so you only need MatrixUtilities and BlitzTerrain which can both be downloaded from this site
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smaas
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Posted: 12th May 2010 17:38
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I added an example with the shader with lava support.



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KISTech
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Posted: 12th May 2010 19:28
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Outstanding. Downloading now.

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Hassan
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Posted: 12th May 2010 20:02
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that looks really pretty man, but now the harder part comes, you need to improve the performance, you know, even if the game is the best in the world at graphics and visuals, they wont play it with low FPS

but once again, those looks really really amazing

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KISTech
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Posted: 12th May 2010 20:27 Edited at: 12th May 2010 20:29
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I'm thinking it was an example of pushing it to it's limits, and that it did.

It's an excellent showcase of BlitzTerrain, as this type of scene with any other terrain would probably barely run.

The code will come in handy for many, for a long time to come.

Nicely done.

I'm most interested in the tool you used to create the terrain maps. Is that something you are going to release? Soon perhaps?

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TheComet
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Posted: 13th May 2010 12:56
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What happens if you move the backdrop (camera range) closer? It will run faster, but you will see the edge of the terrain more clearly.

TheComet

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KISTech
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Posted: 13th May 2010 18:46
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There are about 4 optimizations I can think of off the top of my head. They don't equate to much of a gain in FPS, simply because of the amount of stuff that is going on in the program, but as we all know, every little bit helps.

The Sky for example runs through a lot of code for what it does. Then there's the loop to update all the Vegetation objects. That takes quite a bit of CPU time.

I've made a few tweaks in my local copy and managed to get it to maintain a fairly consistent average FPS of about 24, with spikes in the mid 40s, and dips in the upper teens.

I may have a play with it later today and see just how quick I can get it to go.

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kaedroho
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Posted: 13th May 2010 19:01
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I have just ran this and I must say, absolutely amazing work!

To increase speed, you should add more LOD levels and decrease the distances of the current LOD levels.

BlitzTerrain - FREE LOD Terrain plugin for DBPro
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smaas
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Posted: 13th May 2010 23:47
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Thanks for all your replies. I'm very interested in any chances you make to improve the performance. On my site you can download the latest version with a improved shader. With this shader I get FPS between 12 and 20.

Good New you can now download the first rough version of LandGen from my site

http://www.edam1740.nl/landgen/LandGenDownload.html

I hope the installation works. I haven't tested it.

Here some of possibilities for seed improvement that work but reduce the quality.

1. the tip TheComet; reduce the camera range. Don't forget to make the skydome smaller otherwise the sky will disappear and reduce the radius of the sun and moon.

2. In cover.dba reduce the constant gField. This constant defines the amount of ground cover. gField = 50 gives you an array of 50 by 50 objects around the player. If you reduce gField maybe you have to increase gSpread. This defines the distance between the objects.

3. in ReadData.dba after the line
AllObjects(Array Count(AllObjects())).maxLoaded = DataFile Integer(1)
add the line
AllObjects(Array Count(AllObjects())).maxLoaded = 10

And after the line
AllObjects(Array Count(AllObjects())).maxBBLoaded = DataFile Integer(1)
add the line
AllObjects(Array Count(AllObjects())).maxBBLoaded = 100

The first defines how many objects of one type (tree) are loaded at same time (now 50). The second does the same for the billboard lod's (now 1000).
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smaas
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Posted: 15th May 2010 19:27
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There is a new version on my site. I added water. because of the performance I choose for an non reflective shader wich doesn't look so good but has a far better performance.

Still it does look very good. I put a few screen shots on site. Here are the best



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thenerd
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Posted: 15th May 2010 20:16
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looks awesome, but it seems like mipmapping is turned off on the terrain... maybe you could use kaedroho's anisotropic plugin...

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KISTech
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Posted: 16th May 2010 19:45
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He is actually using the Anisotropy plug-in. The textures are loaded by the shader, so the mipmaps aren't created.

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smaas
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Posted: 16th May 2010 21:45
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Mipmaps should have work but I did something wrong in the shader. A new version can by downloaded from my site but I am not sure wich version I like most so I have included to non-mipmap version as well.
See below for the mipmap and not mipmap version then you can choose for yourself.

Has anyone downloaded and tested the the landscape creation tool yet??




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Duffer
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Posted: 16th May 2010 22:31
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@ smaas,

This looks excellent. Have tried the demo.

Any chance of a single .exe for installation?

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
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Zipir
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Posted: 17th May 2010 02:41
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cool project and Maybe EXTENDED TERRAIN can be wonderfull with enviroment mapping(vegetation)
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Jeff Miller
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Posted: 17th May 2010 17:05
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I'm having difficulty getting the Landgen tool to run. I get the following error message.

"Unable to install or run the application. The application requires that assembly C1.Win.C1Input.2 Version 2.0.20091.33227 be installed in the Global Assembly Cache (GAC) first."

I need some guidance as to how to overcome this error, like where do I get whatever it refers to and how to install it.

I'm using Windows 7.
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KISTech
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Posted: 17th May 2010 18:53 Edited at: 17th May 2010 19:10
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Assuming that the second image is with Mipmaps, that looks amazing!!

Didn't notice the tool on the site. Checking now.

[edit]
Quote: ""Unable to install or run the application. The application requires that assembly C1.Win.C1Input.2 Version 2.0.20091.33227 be installed in the Global Assembly Cache (GAC) first.""


I get the same error. It wont install.

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Mugen Wizardry
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Posted: 17th May 2010 21:51
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I get could not understand command for BT SetATMode and BT MakeTerrain..

But I have all the DLLs and INIs...

CHECK OUT SOME MUSIC FROM MY NEW TECHNO CD! TECHNOKINESIS
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ALSO, CHECK OUT MY NEW TECHNO CD! http://www.imageposeidon.com/
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KISTech
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Posted: 18th May 2010 18:23
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Make sure you've got BlitzTerrain 2.0.

@smass
Any ideas on the installer error?

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smaas
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Posted: 19th May 2010 13:30
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I'm working on the installer. Sorry about that. I should have tested it but a need a second computer for that. I did put a new version with the c1Input on my site but still not tested. I will look into it tonight and hope to have a tested version tomorrow.

To whet your appetite, I put a few screen shots from the automatic created swamps on my site.


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smaas
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Posted: 19th May 2010 22:20
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I just uploaded the LandGen installation to my site. I tested it on my old computer and it worked. You need net 3.5 and directx 9.


http://www.edam1740.nl/landgen/LandGenDownload.html
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KISTech
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Posted: 20th May 2010 03:18
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Sorry, it's still not creating anything usable.

It runs through part of the installation process, creates a Start menu folder and an Icon there that leads to the location of the start menu button. No files are installed, no EXE shows up.

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Duffer
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Posted: 20th May 2010 10:06
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@ Smaas,

An all in one installed dedicated to/for DBPro would be neat...

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
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kaedroho
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Posted: 20th May 2010 14:00
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I can confirm that the seams on the terrain is a BlitzTerrain issue. I think its been caused by UV inaccuracies instead of normal inaccuracies as it was before.

I'll get to work on fixing it right away!

BlitzTerrain - FREE LOD Terrain plugin for DBPro
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smaas
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Posted: 20th May 2010 18:47
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Sorry again, the generator is not developed in DBPro but in visual studio 2008. Microsoft calls it ClickOnce deployment but I've clicked a lot of times now. But we know that Microsoft always goes for the "why do it simple when it can be done difficult" option.

I now clickOnced to the webdeployment option.

http://www.edam1740.nl/landgen/publish/publish.htm

It works on my computer. Net doesn't install a exe on your computer. I haven't figured out what and where the application is installed but it seems to work. Install and look in the start menu for CoastalWare/Landscape generator.

To run you have to download the two directories c:\landgen and c:\blitz

http://www.edam1740.nl/landgen/LandGenDownload.html

I'm looking at programs to make the install easier and build one file with all dll's, dotnet files and data packed in one executable but first let see if anyone wants to use the tool.
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KISTech
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Posted: 20th May 2010 19:04 Edited at: 20th May 2010 19:18
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Microsoft. Where quality is job 1.1

Still not quite there. Although this time the Install button on the web page seems to have installed something. (not sure where) When I click on the icon on the start menu it flashes the edges of the screen like it's trying to run something then it exits, and nothing.

Click on the "here" link on the page brings up an XML document in text. I have .Net 3.5 SP1 installed.

I use Firefox, but tried it in IE too. No joy.

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smaas
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Posted: 20th May 2010 20:46
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Kill Bill

A last try before I'm out of ideas.

http://www.edam1740.nl/landgen/test.html

Here is the exe and the necessary dll's. Maybe if you put them in the same directory it will work or at least you get a meaningfull error message. You do have c:\landgen and c:\blitz? the program will. not run without them. They can be installed from here


http://www.edam1740.nl/landgen/LandGenDownload.html
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KISTech
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Posted: 21st May 2010 02:23 Edited at: 21st May 2010 02:30
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Yup, I've got the Landgen and Blitz folders with their respective stuff in them.

I downloaded the rar and unpacked it into C:\Landgen and ran the EXE. It does the same thing as before, a window starts to open and then it closes before I can see what's going on.

I even moved it to another directory and it still wouldn't run.

Is this working for anyone else?

[edit]
Doesn't work on my other computer either.
Both are XP 32bit for what it's worth.

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smaas
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Posted: 22nd May 2010 10:32
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I\'ve one last trick up my sleeve. There is one thing not-dot-net in the tool, an ms-access database. I will replace that this weekend with a pure .net solution. Then, according to Microsoft, a exe should run on any computer that has .net installed. Hope that will work. Otherwise I\'m afraid that landgen will, thanks to bill, never see the daylight.

Anybody else tried to install?:
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Oneka
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Posted: 22nd May 2010 16:47
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Ive installed it and it ran with no problems, it did take the exe like aabout 30 or seconds to load but other than that it ran for me


Making dreams possible, one line at a time...
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KISTech
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Posted: 22nd May 2010 20:05
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I've tried it now on 3 computers. One is a fresh Windows XP install from about 3 months ago, one is my development machine that has every prerequisite under the sun installed on it, and the 3rd is my Vista 32 laptop.

All have .Net Framework 3.5 SP1 installed.

They all do pretty much the same thing. The frame of the app window flashes for a second, then closes with no error message or anything.

Is it not possible to just create an executable and deploy it normally without the ClickOnce stuff? I know there was a download that included the EXE, but wasn't that still based on a ClickOnce deployment? I've not developed anything but a DLL in .Net, so I couldn't say but it's got to be easier than this..

@Oneka,
What's different about your machine? Maybe something you have installed that I don't or something I have installed that might be interfering with it?

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Oneka
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Posted: 22nd May 2010 21:29
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um the newest DX maybe? I dont know but there isnt really anything that stands out like that


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KISTech
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Posted: 26th May 2010 19:17
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Anyone have any more thoughts on this?

I can't seem to find the magic combination that's going to let me run this, and I would REALLY love to see it in action.

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smaas
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Posted: 28th May 2010 01:06
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I've rewritten the tool so that it doesn't use anything else than standard dotnet components. The executable should run if net 3.5 is installed. Hope it works!

http://www.edam1740.nl/landgen/download.html

I've done test with 512x512 textures which works fine.

coming up

- change the texture runtime. Looks great with the runtime change of the terrain from blitz

- night shader, shows the terrain in a flickering circle around the player like he's (or she) is carrying a torch
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KISTech
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Posted: 28th May 2010 01:54 Edited at: 28th May 2010 02:00
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In the first version there was a MS Access MDB file to download. Is that still required? I didn't see it in this new package.

On all 3 of my machines I'm still getting the same result. Silent crash after flashing the window border. (with or without the MDB file.)

[edit]
If this is written in C#.Net 2008, would you be willing to send me the source to see if I can help find the issue?

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smaas
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Posted: 28th May 2010 12:39
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No it's programmed in VB.net. I replaced de access database with text files. This way the program doesn't need any oldb or other data access dll's. I hoped it would work this way. Here are the references the tools needs and should be on your pc.




If net 3.5 is installed only the first (direct3d) could be a problem.
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KISTech
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Posted: 28th May 2010 18:43 Edited at: 28th May 2010 18:48
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Ok, I have VB.Net 2008 installed. I looked at the project references of a blank project, and all of those were listed with the same version numbers.

[edit]
I should mention I have no desire to steal your code. I would just like to help if I can. There has to be a reasonable explanation for why it wont run on any of my machines.

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Red Eye
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Posted: 28th May 2010 19:03
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DarkGDK posibilities?

Looking great, thats why i ask. Keep it up mate.

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smaas
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Posted: 29th May 2010 13:54
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I'm working on a DarkGDK demo.

KISTech I tried to mail the source to you're email address but it doesn't exists any more. It's not something I want to put on the forum so mail me.
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KISTech
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Posted: 31st May 2010 00:14
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Have to remove NOSPAM from the address. It helps to prevent crawlers from harvesting your address for spam lists. (or at least it seems to.)

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