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3 Dimensional Chat / Topology Tutorial -How to make faces, The real way

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mike5424
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Posted: 6th Jun 2010 17:59 Edited at: 6th Jun 2010 17:59
So many people make heads out of boxes and sphere's making a fairly decent head but forget about topology. To be honest, I couldn't make a head without topology. My attempts failed, Hours of work for a terrible head. Look how terrible my best attempt was even though it took over 3 hours! (Pic 1) My first attempt at topology beat all of my other heads, And it only took 1-2 hours! (Pic 2)


Pic1


Pic2

Planning Topology:

The way i make my topology is to plan it out in photoshop first. It doesn't take too long, Normaly 10-40 mins.


Note: Use the pen tool and stroke to create the lines

Note: Don't worry about planning topology on the side reference, The front is most important


So, I start by making a simple, Low poly, Topology plan.
(For this example i will use my light yagami topology plan.)



The topology i use contains 2-3 loops for the mouth, 3-5 Loops for the nose and 3-4 For the eye. Take into account the distance beetween the inner loop and the second most inner loop as the inner one will most likely be pulled back slightly. The cheek bone needs some loops to create the curve of the characters cheek and the nose needs alot of attention payed to it as parts carry on untill the top of the head of connect into the eyes. While making your topology you need to think about anatomy too, For example, The zygomatic bone crates a curve that needs more geonometry than the forehead.


After the head has some base topology we need to remove this hyper lowpolyness. At the moment we have little to work with, Start to divide the empty area'to create a nice ammount of loops to work with.



Note: Don't worry to much about n-gons, You can fix them later while moddeling


Methods:

What i would call the best ways to make your head is the following:

Method 1. Create a plane over the head with no segments, Cut in the topology that you planned and around the face. After you have done that pull the vertecies out one by one using a side reference. It may not work in certain modeling pakages as they man not have the needed cutting tool.

Method 2. Create a plane the size of one polygon from your topology plan (Preferable around the eyes or mouth and, Just to stop confusion, Make sure the plane is in the place of the polygon aswell as the size) Then start to pull it out and move it around to the correct position on the side reference.

I'm not saying these are the best methods, I just find them easier than some others.


Comming soon: Modeling the head!

---
Hassan
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Posted: 6th Jun 2010 18:36 Edited at: 6th Jun 2010 18:36
Quote: "So many people make heads out of boxes and sphere's making a fairly decent head but forget about topology. To be honest, I couldn't make a head without topology."


"I couldn't make a head without topology.", if you are referring to the second picture, i wouldn't call it a head, it's just a sphere and it's too obvious

no offense, but the current progress is not enough to start a tutorial..how about, create the decent head first, take screenies and/or vids or whatever and then make a tutorial thread?

Camouflage Studios
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Posted: 6th Jun 2010 19:18
Well, the topology pictures you showed aren't even good. The faces vary in size too much and the density gets very high around the nose. You could easily make the polies bigger. And around the eyes, again, your polies vary in size and shape, and polies should generaly be square shaped and around the same size.

This is a pretty good thread.

http://www.subdivisionmodeling.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8911

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Asteric
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Posted: 6th Jun 2010 19:41
Im just going to add something in on behalf of Hassan and Camo.

Thank you for the effort and time in compiling this tutorial, i know they take ages to sort out.

mike5424
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Posted: 6th Jun 2010 20:16
Quote: "
"I couldn't make a head without topology.", if you are referring to the second picture, i wouldn't call it a head, it's just a sphere and it's too obvious"

No it's not...

Quote: "
no offense, but the current progress is not enough to start a tutorial..how about, create the decent head first, take screenies and/or vids or whatever and then make a tutorial thread?"

This is the most important part though.

Quote: "Well, the topology pictures you showed aren't even good. The faces vary in size too much and the density gets very high around the nose. You could easily make the polies bigger. And around the eyes, again, your polies vary in size and shape, and polies should generaly be square shaped and around the same size."

Umm... No... http://www.xsibase.com/forum/attached/topology.jpg That topology is fine, It has lots of variation.

Quote: "
Thank you for the effort and time in compiling this tutorial, i know they take ages to sort out."

Thanks asteric!

---
lazerus
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Posted: 6th Jun 2010 20:49 Edited at: 8th Jun 2010 20:03
Ill bite the bullet then;

People are not so much compalining about the tutorial, Its more down to your examples which are stylised over a exsisting style (anime)
Which has given it a strange look. The sphere you used is still very evidently a sphere, thats not very good, in most cases since you now have a football/mushroom headed character.

It always better to follow the norm, which is atomically correct faces, with the proportions in check. That way when you go on to personalise it, you know the limitations and realism behind it. Calling it cartoon never surfices, it must be recognisable. You seems to need help of poly usage and density, since if you follow the face around its wires, you have alot of unessacry loops. The 'hair' for example, is still very much a sphere, the poly flow, shape and size indicates it. You should try and use a lower poly approach if you want to use a sphere starting point. Maybe 6-7 'y' sides by 4-5 should do it.

Personally, i hate using spheres since they are crap when it comes to the poles of them. I much prefer to model starting with a cylinder or a box depending on the style im going for. The face of my compettion entry started as a cylinder, a bit of a rush 1 hour job but it works still. I think it came out as 200ish with the headdress.

All im trying to get through is that you should revise your style a little and do some normal people. Once you have that knowledge come back and youll understand what were trying to say.

I tried my dammed hardest not to step on toes,

Still thanks for trying and taking the time to write it up.

Kira Vakaan
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Posted: 6th Jun 2010 20:55 Edited at: 6th Jun 2010 20:55
I mean no offense, but I agree with Camo. And your round-headed character doesn't demonstrate good topology either. I've highlighted some parts that need fixing.



1. I don't know why this triangle exists. Using n-gons like the pentagon above it is never a practice for topology. There is no detriment to merging the top two vertices of the triangle to form one quad.

2. Again, n-gons only screw up loop flow. I'm sure the head is round enough that it will not suffer from the loss of the highlighted loop.

3. Is there a reason these faces are triangulated? Easy fix though.

4. Another n-gon. Cut through to the center of the forehead.

I think that you need to do some more studying before writing a tutorial.

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Hassan
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Posted: 6th Jun 2010 20:58 Edited at: 6th Jun 2010 20:59
Quote: "No it's not..."




/facepalm

Quik
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Posted: 6th Jun 2010 21:14
i really dont get why people are so anti tris? they usually smooth out fine for me, and ngons also smooth out fine =P it is all depending on how the model is built.


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
Asteric
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Posted: 6th Jun 2010 21:25
Nah they really smooth out badly, but its more of a problem when they are used on curved surfaces, or sculpting.

Kira Vakaan
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Posted: 6th Jun 2010 21:37 Edited at: 6th Jun 2010 21:38
Yeah, it's a big no-no for organic modelling and/or anything requiring sudivision.

The plane on the left sudivides into the mess on the right (using Catmull-Clark sudivision, of course).



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Azunaki
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Posted: 7th Jun 2010 02:40
they can also be problematic when rigging and animating. depending on were they are.

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JLMoondog
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Posted: 7th Jun 2010 04:50 Edited at: 7th Jun 2010 04:58
Er, honestly, your topology is not so good. Though most of what I'd say has already been said, so not going to repeat.

Good effort none-the-less.

Also on a side note, although you want to normally avoid triangles, sometimes you can utilize them well as long as they move with the poly flow.
Example:

I have several triangles in this mesh, but they subdivide nicely to add transitions between sections of the face.


Azunaki
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Posted: 7th Jun 2010 08:30 Edited at: 7th Jun 2010 08:34
there are exceptions, they can add much needed detail and also create very obvious lines for animating(accenting muscles ect) you can also place them on parts of a still that wouldn't be seen to reduce the poly count substantially, but as said before just about all organic modeling you want solid flow any mishaps will affect your final result.

mike you have posted that image before and it is no better now then it was then.

and since this is all about topology here is a pull from google



and here is a head modeling tutorial. personally i feel this is the standard.(i found this through some stuff Alucard posted a while ago. its the same video just in a different place)

http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to-model-human-head-great-edge-flow-maya-179899/

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zeroSlave
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Posted: 7th Jun 2010 19:25 Edited at: 7th Jun 2010 19:25
I'm just gonna throw this out there. Found it on a blender tut site posted around here not too long ago. I thought it was a good reference for topo and edge flow:



My green thumb grew the tree my Trojan War horse was crafted from. With roses in our pockets we rally round the tombstones. Ashes to ashes, we all fall down.

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Kira Vakaan
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Posted: 7th Jun 2010 19:36
Wow, this thread seems to be morphing into something that a topology noob might actually find useful. I love communities.

Azunaki
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Posted: 8th Jun 2010 03:55
i love this community.(and polycount its pretty sweet as well)

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