Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / whats planned for patch 6

Author
Message
Terabyte
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posted: 4th Oct 2003 19:40
Link
What fixes are planned for patch 6
When is patch 6 planned for release (soon or in the future is not an answer somtime after christmass, next month or in about 2 months time is)

The following threads and their accompanying sound tracks are protected by copyright and any broadcast public diffusion, copying and edditing are etc... etc.. you may not complain about my Typo's
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
kevinthekangaroo
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jun 2003
Location:
Posted: 5th Oct 2003 19:21
Link
I hope they put some map creation tools. *imagines a world editor with vertex manipulation* mmmm....
Back to top
Profile PM
BatVink
Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 5th Oct 2003 19:35
Link
I don't imagine there will be any map creation tools, Cartography shop is a separate product that does this. My guess is there will be a 5.x with fixes. As DirectX 9 is still comparatively new, there won't be a DX10 for a while and this seems to be what drives new functionality.

I'd like to be wrong, new functionality is always a welcome bonus

BatVink (formerly StevieVee)
http://facepaint.me.uk/catalog/default.php
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Rwilson
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 19th May 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 5th Oct 2003 22:38
Link
I beleive they plan on putting in some advanced 3d-world tools. Something called Node Trees, or something of that nature. Don't know how it works, but it will supposedly allow for hight Frame Rates. Also I think I've heard of the possibilty for multi-return User-Functions (YAY!). Don't know much more beyond that.

Usermlsra - Causing Havoc with a Smile
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Rob K
Retired Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 5th Oct 2003 22:44
Link
- Christmas
- No fixes have been "planned" yet, but Mike said that they aim to get everything major out of the way.
- New Stuff: Nodetrees / Portals (a technology which stops objects which cannot be seen from being drawn, this will require lots of explanation which will hopefully come later), CSG (Cut holes out of objects, merge objects etc.), Direct Vertex access commands, Maybe SAVE OBJECT.


BLUE GUI Plugin: http://blue.robert-knight.net
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
ZomBfied
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2002
Location:
Posted: 5th Oct 2003 22:47
Link
Holy smack! (Direct virtex manipulation)
Back to top
Profile PM
Thialfi
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 19th Mar 2003
Location: Asgard
Posted: 6th Oct 2003 01:50
Link
It's the CSG that I'm drooling for...err, waiting for. I loved playing with CSG in Pov-Ray and 3D Studio Max.

By Thor's hammer
By the sons of Odin
I shall avenge thee
Back to top
Profile PM
DMXtra
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Aug 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 6th Oct 2003 12:36
Link
Well anyone will be able to make their own map tools when upgrade 6 comes out to the public.

Currently planned for upgrade 6:
o Bug fixes from the bug fix forum
o Nodetree(octrees) for static geometry. New and fast collision with these, also includes highly advanced portal technology.
o CGS in realtime with Addition/Subtraction/Intersection using primitives or 3D models.
o Lightmapping with shadowing
o realtime vertice manipulation

There might be some other features, but its too early to list them yet.

Upgrade 6 is really going to be nice, I think you all will like it.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
Back to top
Profile PM
las6
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Sep 2002
Location: Finland
Posted: 6th Oct 2003 13:35
Link
umh.
Not sure what to think about that.
- First of all, all the "static" stuff I've seen so far (instance object and the old statics) have not been very useful. Sure they give you a slight fps boost, but are practically useless because the methods used hide objects that should be still visible. (and I'm not scaling anything) This looks very bad, especially on certain projects that use tiled object positioning. (both square and hexagonal)
- Secondly, there's been CSG commands in DBpro from the start, nobody has just used them. Okay, I understand they are making it faster, but just pointing out the truth.
- Ligthmapping, eh? That sounds interesting, but does it take account only the 8 DX lights?
- realtime vertex manipulation sounds fun, but nothing that you couldn't do via memblocks. if the commands would just be fast enough.

My advice to TGC would be to concentrate on the bugs (get me fixed), then listen to the community, do everything that was promised when DBpro was launched (what happened to the huuge landscapes?), after that it would be nice to see some new features.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
OSX Using Happy Dude
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Aug 2003
Location: At home
Posted: 6th Oct 2003 15:32
Link
Mike & Lee want to fix all of the bugs by P6


Avatar & Logo by Indi. Recovering from the UK DBPro Convention in Chichester
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Rob K
Retired Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 6th Oct 2003 16:42
Link
@las6

This is a very different technology. I believe that the old statics had very little in the way of occlusion implemented. At the conference, Mike showed us a demo with a door and a very high poly object behind it, moving the camera behind the door set the polycount from over 10000 to below 100.

It is worth nothing that objects are hidden, not individual polys. You cannot slap a massive X object in a nodetree and expect it to work. Ideally you should divide the level up if possible into smaller meshes, and for best results, align them with the nodes (I believe there will be a command which will reveal the edges of nodes)

-Secondly, there's been CSG commands in DBpro from the start, nobody has just used them. Okay, I understand they are making it faster, but just pointing out the truth.

There was only ONE CSG command before, and it only does a union operation on a saved X file, not on active objects. The new commands can be done in realtime with loaded objects and there are now difference and intersection operations.

- With lightmaps, you basically add objects to a "pool" and you add lights to the "pool" (the lights are not DX lights, just references for when the lightmapper builds the texture)

- Memblock manipulation of verticies has several serious disadvantages which make direct access highly beneficial:

1. It is slow because DBP copies the data to a mesh, then to a memblock which you edit, then you have to copy it back to the mesh, then change the objects mesh. With the vertex commands, you can just edit the object's data. The new commands are actually hidden away there but you have to edit the DLLs. They are well over 3x faster than memblock manipulation.

2. All object effects are lost when you change its mesh after editing it, so effects like cube-mapping would be lost for example. This would not happen with the vertex commands, as there is no CHANGE MESH operation

3. The vertex commands are easier! - There is no need to calculate which byte affects what, it is just.

SET VERTEXDATA COLOR vertex,color

for example.


BLUE GUI Plugin: http://blue.robert-knight.net
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
M00NSHiNE
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Aug 2003
Location: England, UK
Posted: 6th Oct 2003 17:12
Link
It would be so great if all the bugs just disapperared.....

"It's amazin' what you can do with a computer and access to t'internet"
Back to top
Profile PM
las6
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Sep 2002
Location: Finland
Posted: 6th Oct 2003 18:53
Link
@Rob K

So Instance Object is using some old method, eh? Why did they include it anyway? And I have always use multiple objects. It might be interesting to see a system hiding the occluded polys instead of objects.

Ah, the lightmap system sounds useful after all. Nice to know they planned that a bit more than usually.

And the only slow part with memblocks is the Change Mesh. And they could have probably optimized that. And anyway, you don't need to copy the object to mesh and then to a memblock if you are editing it sequantily, you could just use the memblock created and edited before. The byte addresses were easy to calculate, unlike figuring out what vertex to edit. And you still need to know it, so it doesn't seem that much easier.

but some good points. Still, I hope they put the priority on the bugs. There's still a horde of those. Not that I would have so much trouble.. it just would help everyone. = (new) users & TGC

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Hamish McHaggis
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Dec 2002
Location: Modgnik Detinu
Posted: 6th Oct 2003 19:01
Link
Hamish drools while imagining blowing holes in walls with a rocket launcher.

Brains are for idiots.

Athelon XP 1400 Plus - Nvidia Geforce MX400 - 256mb RAM
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Terabyte
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posted: 6th Oct 2003 20:14
Link
wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Sounds good

DX10 ... oh ... oh god no... please No NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

The following threads and their accompanying sound tracks are protected by copyright and any broadcast public diffusion, copying and edditing are etc... etc.. you may not complain about my Typo's
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Rob K
Retired Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 6th Oct 2003 20:19
Link
Quote: "So Instance Object is using some old method, "


Instance object is for copying objects, but without copying the source data. When you instance an object, it creates a new object with its data strucutre set to that of the old object. So if you change the color of the first object, it will probably change the color of the second instanced object as they share the same data.

Quote: "It might be interesting to see a system hiding the occluded polys instead of objects."


I think it has been done this way for speed reasons. Otherwise you might end up losing more FPS through occlusion calculations than would be saved by removing the data from the pipeline.

Quote: "And the only slow part with memblocks is the Change Mesh. And they could have probably optimized that. "


True, but the fact remains that DBP has to copy the data over, which is inefficient. Also, Change Mesh looses all the objects' effects, so you have to take into account time required to re-apply them. It is easier, because you write less code

Bugs are a priority for U6, I think most DBDNers will just chuck the beta back if it isn't sorted.


BLUE GUI Plugin: http://blue.robert-knight.net
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Surreal Studio IanG
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Sep 2003
Location: Cyberspace...I think
Posted: 6th Oct 2003 20:47
Link
Will you be fixing the bug which stops you from using .3ds files; and can you make it so you can use the exe's on computers without DirectX 9b, because it is a real pain having to give your beta testers a copy of DirectX 9b, because not many people have actual got DirectX 9b.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Shadow Robert
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 6th Oct 2003 21:35
Link
not to be funny but I am running out of patience with what TGC keep saying about the 3D,

there is STILL no DBO format, which was suppose to be implimented by now.
there is STILL no real object access, although there are now commands for this - without documentation its about as useful as a chocolate fireguard.

quite frankly if the TPC SDK had a library file and headers for the Basic3D DLL, there would already be low-level vertex access, there would already be CSG, there would already be additional Shader support.

TGC can keep sitting there fixxing bugs, but quite frankly if some of us had some REAL access to the engine we'd of been able to impliment one hell of alot.
Quite frankly what has stopped me from wanting to release things is the sheer speed difference between natively doing operations and doing them within DBPs command structure.

20ms speed difference might not seem much, but you do that every frame per second @ 60fps thats a 1,200ms latency (1.2 SECONDS!!)
what does that mean? well you ever played Quake3 online on a 33.6/56k modem? Well then you know EXACTLY what that means.

i'm not against TGC adding these features themselves, but they're effectively tieing the hands of the TPC developers ... the way the dbp is setup, it would also make it impossible to replace anything without replacing several other things at the same time.

Basic3D -> Memblocks -> Sound/2D/Music -> Core

before you know it you've had to replace the entire sodding engine, when all you wanted to do is simply edit the vertex positions.
it is extremely inefficient to have to

Object -> Mesh -> Memblock -> Change Mesh -> Object
you end up having not only 3seperate versions of an object

so a 250kb object will now take up 750kb, but also you have the latency between each of the creations - which although this is simply the declaration of the memory and copying of memory to memory isn't even close to as fast.
At most you should ever only require a single index/vertex buffer and edit its size to suit the current data load...
swear i'd love to get my hands on the source to see how this is all setup, my guess is it is definately not optimised, either memory or processing wise - just built for compatibility.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Terabyte
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posted: 6th Oct 2003 21:50
Link
using dx9 for the exe's has to be done

The following threads and their accompanying sound tracks are protected by copyright and any broadcast public diffusion, copying and edditing are etc... etc.. you may not complain about my Typo's
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
MikeJohnson
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Aug 2003
Location: Radcliffe, Manchester
Posted: 6th Oct 2003 23:30
Link
Raven - there is a DBO format It's been in and working since patch 4. At this stage we haven't released the information as it's possible we may make changes for upgrade 6. It's only going to cause problems if we release information now and then in a few months time there's going to be a new revision. There's also more work for us to do on documentation. It's no good us releasing the format and then hoping that everyone can figure it out for theirselves. It will come - just be patient

As for access to object data - many commands are now in the current version. You can get / set all vertex data of an object now. Again there's work to do on documenting this commands and explaining how they all work.

Here's a quick example to demonstrate the commands -



Mike
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
EddieRay
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Feb 2003
Location: USA
Posted: 7th Oct 2003 00:19
Link
Hey Mike... looks nice.

Are there going to be any commands like "PICK VERTEX" and "PICK LIMB" to really open the possibilities for making modelling tools and such in DBPro? I really like "PICK OBJECT"... it works great! Best darn "meat and potatoes" feature to be added to DBPro in a long time IMO.

By "current version", do you mean "the unreleased version that will eventually be patch 6"? Just tried the snippet in 5.1b and, of course, it doesn't actually work for ME in my "current version"...

Thanks,

Ed

Desktop: AMD900/256MB/Radeon 8500 64MB/Win98SE/DX9.0b/Catalyst 3.7
Laptop: P3-850/384MB/GeForce2 Go 16MB/WinXP Pro/DX9.0b/Detonator 45.23
Back to top
Profile PM Email
MikeJohnson
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Aug 2003
Location: Radcliffe, Manchester
Posted: 7th Oct 2003 00:44
Link
My mistake They aren't enabled for version 5.1b. I thought they were.

There are going to be lots of commands like this which allow you to fully control the data of an object. No commands like "pick vertex" yet but they could easily go in.

Mike
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Shadow Robert
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 7th Oct 2003 03:35
Link
Mike i know, but that does't help me a lick having to rely on the DBP's builtin functions that are subject to change when i could just use DirectX's which won't.

i just wish that you guys could open up the 3d interfaces for the objects atleast for the TPC people rather than everyone left to wait for features that could really be implimented and working already... to say this is all frustrating to know everything is just out of reach is really a complete understatement.

i don't want to have to use DBPs builtin functions to achieve what i want to do, its great for developing within DBP - but within C++ it feels like it is forcing me to program i a fashion that just doesn't feel right. would like some real control, it shouldn't be too much to ask should it?

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
DrakeX
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location:
Posted: 7th Oct 2003 06:41
Link
i like the mesh editing commands. and to van, with memblocks you can't edit animated meshes or meshes with more than one surface. with the new commands you can. however the only thing i don't like about them is the sheer WORDINESS of them. i mean really -- LOCK VERTEX DATA FOR LIMB and GET VERTEXDATA POSITION X()? i mean yes -- they're descriptive, but really, there's a threshhold on just how descriptive command names should be!

also -- i've said it once, i've said it a million times -- get rid of the limb system. all it does it make for incompatibilities between whole objects and their limbs, makes it easy to forget to fix a limb bug if one exists in its sister object command, and generally limits things. by that i mean you cannot build heirarchies made of anything but meshes and the whole linb creation process is just.... oh my god. please get a real heirarchy system!

stop looking at me!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Magefire
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Feb 2003
Location:
Posted: 8th Oct 2003 05:27
Link
If there is one thing that I would really love to request, it would be antialiasing. In OpenGL it is amazingly easy to impliment and I would expect that since DirectX is in its 9th version, it would be simple to just create a function that would turn on and off antialiasing. This would allow us to create games that look so much better. So many cards support antialiasing so that shouldn't be a problem.

If you give a man some fire, he will be warm for a day. If you set a man on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
las6
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Sep 2002
Location: Finland
Posted: 8th Oct 2003 09:13
Link
Well, you can always have antialiasing when you set it on from the display settings of your comp. But a function to do that wouldn't hurt. Still, I never use ingame options for that, I always force the mode.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
indi
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 8th Oct 2003 09:37
Link
remind me to thank the guys at TGC for this wicked package and to glare at las6 and raven for whingin

save ferris
http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
Back to top
Profile PM Email
las6
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Sep 2002
Location: Finland
Posted: 8th Oct 2003 09:59
Link
wait a minute, You're grouping me and raven?
No that's not good.

besides, why didn't you say anything about drake?
I was just asking some questions about the patch and I'm treated as a whiner, now that's just...

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
indi
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 8th Oct 2003 12:13
Link
drakes response is plain ludicrus as well.
destroying limbs would ruin many possabilities in which they can be used for. Even I can see that without being an uber 3d person or coder.

If you guys can do better and explain what is broken and how to fix it then do so.If you cant then why bother replying.

Its pointless to be the griever if you dont present a decent argument to the actual problems at hand and given an opportunity to present good ideas instead of griping in a negative way, most of the arguments by some people here show a lack of understanding anyway as to what the commands and features are doing in the first place. Sure thats partially TGCs lack of command instructions but see how i put this into a positive way so it can be a beneficial thing to gain from.


I dont even try to assume i know whats involved with them, if i did id be writing my own engine in C++ now wouldnt I > ? OR giving accurate information about specific problems at hand. I know when to shuddap and just watch n listen.

take a look at your post and imagine for a split second your a DBP TGC coder, and what they can do to alleviate your grievances.

How good would it make you feel if someone just said fix the bugs but doesnt say where they found any.

lol I dont even need to inform you of this problem as you should have a little more respect in regards to the way you communicate your problems in a more positive light.




Ravens just full of misinformation, time and time again take a look at how he was corrected above so that people are not misinformed.
His reply to his misinformation and speculation also was not full of respect so u can dismis his diatribe as waisted ascii or learn that its simply not the way things work.





I ask a professional I trust when i dont know how something works, I know they are in the know when they prove time and time again there skills in there given field. I know to be respectfull to people working towards similar goals.

your growing into adults and some of you dont have an excuss since you are already adults, do i really need to spell this out to you, I figure its common decency and something you should have installed into you at a lot earlier age then this.






good job TGC you have made a program I really enjoy let alone get to this stage of 3d interactivity if i had to do on my own.

The forum post is asking for whats in store for patch 6. Are we not off track now? Isnt the reply left for people in the know to inform all of the users with the new groovy features?

Excuse me if you think it might be a harsh reply but please know your place and accept that things way above your head are being worked on by clever people and that we will benefit from them at the end of the day without grievances.

save ferris
http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
Back to top
Profile PM Email
las6
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Sep 2002
Location: Finland
Posted: 8th Oct 2003 12:31
Link
well, telling them to fix the bugs sounds the right comment on this post. Specific bugs go to the bug board. You can find Loads of bugs there. So that's why I suggested the TGC to fix the bugs. At least the ones that are already reported and listed. Sounds adult enough for me.

and that is a harsh post. Especially when I was only asking and commenting on the new features and pointing out that there is already a CSG command. Plus there are features that were promised, but not released. It would be nice if TGC would not promise us some new features, when they end up making totally different ones. Some people can be dissappointed because of that.

Besides, I got a some new information on the lightmapping stuff. Sounds much more useful than before.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
indi
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 8th Oct 2003 12:34
Link
I respect your ability to create good textures lassix and you can dismiss or learn from my positive argument as well as I can but in essence its a post for the TGC people to reply and inform us. so ill shuddap now for the betterment of the gel that makes us all peers, at least i hope so.

save ferris
http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
Back to top
Profile PM Email
DMXtra
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Aug 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 8th Oct 2003 13:22 Edited at: 8th Oct 2003 13:23
Link
Quote: "
well, telling them to fix the bugs sounds the right comment on this post. Specific bugs go to the bug board. You can find Loads of bugs there. So that's why I suggested the TGC to fix the bugs. At least the ones that are already reported and listed. Sounds adult enough for me.
"


They have been fixing bugs and rewriting code for optimisation and some bugs pop up. Lee's mission is to fix every bug possible for upgrade 6 and this is the HIGHEST priority. Upgrade 5 fixed a ton of bugs as well, but it was a release just to get DX 9 out and a new demo on the website. If fixing ALL bugs thats in the bug forum is priority, then I don't know how to make it any clearer than this.

Quote: "
and that is a harsh post. Especially when I was only asking and commenting on the new features and pointing out that there is already a CSG command. Plus there are features that were promised, but not released. It would be nice if TGC would not promise us some new features, when they end up making totally different ones. Some people can be dissappointed because of that.
"


Well the CSG commands are not complete and all the features that were promised will be out by upgrade 6. Its a free upgrade so I fail to see why this is really a problem, not many people are missing out on making money on their games here anyway, so its pretty much a moot point.

I personally don't think its harsh at all, I think there are
people in the community that like to bitch all the time (not a flame, but an observation). I look at other communities and they have worse problems and yet not many people complain, its amazing what maturity can do.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
Back to top
Profile PM
las6
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Sep 2002
Location: Finland
Posted: 8th Oct 2003 13:48
Link
uh, who's bitching now?

Quote: " No fixes have been "planned" yet, but Mike said that they aim to get everything major out of the way"


That just made me worry, and I haven't heard anything about the Bugs being priority #1 from the TGC itself.

and what comes to the Patch 6, I see a list of features that are totally new, (some good ones too) but not the ones that were promised.

just had to answer to this post, But otherwise I'd stopped. Indi's reply was very mature, unlike yours DMXtra. So calm down.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
snailian
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Sep 2003
Location:
Posted: 8th Oct 2003 20:46
Link
In regards to direct vertex manipulation, would the values in the command "set vertexdata position 0, 10, 20, 30" be relative to its current position or set to the global position? I think it would be helpful if you could manipulate a vertex in relation to where it currently is.

For example, say you wanted to "morph" a models hand into a piercing weapon. You could just pull the vertex(s) from the top of the hand to a point a short distance from the hand. It would be much easier to locate where those points need to be placed in relative postion from the rest of the hand, than from the origin (0,0,0).

Just curious, Thanks for all the information so far.

Cry in the dojo-laugh on the battlefield.
Back to top
Profile PM
Rob K
Retired Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 8th Oct 2003 23:26
Link
Vertex positions are relative to the center of the model, which you define in your 3D model editor.


BLUE GUI Plugin: http://blue.robert-knight.net
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
DMXtra
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Aug 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 9th Oct 2003 01:05 Edited at: 9th Oct 2003 01:07
Link
Quote: "
That just made me worry, and I haven't heard anything about the Bugs being priority #1 from the TGC itself.

and what comes to the Patch 6, I see a list of features that are totally new, (some good ones too) but not the ones that were promised.
"


Lee has said this over and over and over. Bug fixes are number one for upgrade 6. He has said it on DBDN and through email. Don't worry about it. Nobody is just adding in features without bugfixes.

Just to let you know that not only am I on DBDN, I also email lee and mike almost daily about things. The exact fixes have not been named specifically because lee's goal is to fix every bug he can fix either though email or the forum. In other words which ever way they come in.

Please tell me what features were promised that arnt going to make it?

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
Back to top
Profile PM
Hamish McHaggis
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Dec 2002
Location: Modgnik Detinu
Posted: 9th Oct 2003 01:08
Link
Can you offset an object from its origin. If not, there should be a command to do that. I know you can do it with limbs, but thats quite long winded when it could easily be done with one command.

Brains are for idiots.

Athelon XP 1400 Plus - Nvidia Geforce MX400 - 256mb RAM
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Terabyte
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posted: 9th Oct 2003 01:30
Link
should be a good christmas present

The following threads and their accompanying sound tracks are protected by copyright and any broadcast public diffusion, copying and edditing are etc... etc.. you may not complain about my Typo's
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
DrakeX
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location:
Posted: 9th Oct 2003 01:38
Link
"Can you offset an object from its origin. If not, there should be a command to do that."

i would imagine there will be a command to do this. and if there's not, you can just loop through all the verts of an object and shift them by however much you want.

"destroying limbs would ruin many possabilities in which they can be used for. Even I can see that without being an uber 3d person or coder. If you guys can do better and explain what is broken and how to fix it then do so. If you cant then why bother replying. Its pointless to be the griever if you dont present a decent argument to the actual problems at hand..."

excuse me, but i did post an argument as to why the limb system should go, and what should be put in its place. and here you are doing the opposite of what you tell us to do -- you just say that "the limbs shouldn't go" but you don't provide any argument as to why not.

as for a "decent" argument -- decent is a subjective term. what might not be decent for you may be decent for other people.

finally, we don't all have to agree with TCG's business practices. it's called freedom of speech. if TCG is running a forum where we can't voice opinions against them, then please let me know, so that i may leave.

stop looking at me!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Dreamora
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Sep 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posted: 9th Oct 2003 02:02 Edited at: 9th Oct 2003 02:06
Link
sorry but if the lightmapping is as bugged as the set blend mapping on (mapping 24 is not working, throwing away base texture -> yeah really cool bumpmapping ), then I don't believe it will be very usefull.

@Drake: shifting vertices is completely useless because animations / rotations etc refer to the object / frame origin, so your shifting is breaking the whole thing on animation anyway ...

Dell Inspiron 8200,P4-M 1,7ghz, GF4 440go (45.23 - DX9b), 512mb RAM
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
D Man
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Oct 2002
Location: Germany
Posted: 9th Oct 2003 02:04
Link
@Hamish McHaggis: You could just edit the vertex positions to achieve an offset.



Just a simple function .

God is real, unless declared integer.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Rob K
Retired Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 9th Oct 2003 02:09
Link
@DrakeX

As long as you are not blatantly flamebaiting you are perfectly welcome to voice your opinions

Personally, I agree that it would be nice if limbs were replaced with a more flexible system. A certain other piece of software enables you to parent any entities, so for example, you can Parent/Child a camera and an object, so that when the model is moved, the camera is automatically moved. However, that would require a complete revision of the way objects work. Believe me this has been discussed at great length on the DBDN forums, and the general consensus was that ideally EVERYTHING (lights, cameras etc.) would be an object. However, there is a problem of backward compatibility to deal with - which is why the LIMB system will remain for the time being.


BLUE GUI Plugin: http://blue.robert-knight.net
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
indi
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 9th Oct 2003 03:24
Link
drake
I dont think I need to spell it out for you do i mate.?
If you need for me to elaborate on why limbs are good you should wait for my new tutorial about them TGC has purchased and will make available to the public soon when Rich gets the time to post them up.
So as for your comment I can dismiss it.
Sure its nice to hide behind the screen but face 2 face i bet its a different kettle of fish with a great less deal of pointless attitude.

save ferris
http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
Back to top
Profile PM Email
DrakeX
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location:
Posted: 9th Oct 2003 05:15
Link
so basically you're saying because you like limbs, i should shut up and not hope for change.

right.

stop looking at me!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Shadow Robert
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 9th Oct 2003 05:21
Link
:: doesn't give a damn about limbs, wants some real dang access to the objects ::

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
indi
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 9th Oct 2003 05:29 Edited at: 9th Oct 2003 05:30
Link
Let me repeat myself again in a different way for you in case you miss read what i posted. Theres a lot of reasons to use limbs and the tutorial I wrote about them will be available for all to see when that tutorial is made public for those who are not familiar with them.

they cover things like helicopter blades / windmills /door hinges / attaching items to characters hands / spaceships that can have additional weapons attached to it / puppetry motion systems / game model prototyping before your final media models are ready / first person shooter skeleton setup for managing guns off your character.... etc. As you can see using limbs has a great many potential uses without going into much detail.

Theres no call to be rude because I may have singled out your criticism about limbs. I think you need to be a little more polite if you want me to treat you as an adult with a constructive argument. Anything else is your own problem with the way you interact with peers and fellow coders. No one has to tolerate it or even give u the decency to reply to your question but guess what, I re-answered your question again for you in case you missed the point about limbs.

save ferris
http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Dreamora
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Sep 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posted: 9th Oct 2003 05:52
Link
but one command is missing for sure: set limb origin or better
set limb origin to limb position

when loading X models the single limbs have often no own origin, rotation on such limbs breaks the whole model, "flying" limbs etc

Dell Inspiron 8200,P4-M 1,7ghz, GF4 440go (45.23 - DX9b), 512mb RAM
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
indi
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 9th Oct 2003 06:16
Link
dreamy I think one way to work around this is create an invisble limb and or root limb then glueing the object u want onto this placeholder limb. It then allows you to use all the object commands on that mesh or object just like it was a normal object.

save ferris
http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
Back to top
Profile PM Email
las6
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Sep 2002
Location: Finland
Posted: 9th Oct 2003 13:19
Link
But doesn't that already show how inadequate the limb system is?
I once tested my helicopter model in DB, thanks to the really neat limb system, that didn't go very well. I did some quick work on objects, but I had no real interest to continue that project.
I wish they had scrapped it in DBpro, or at least made a new system. Now it's just harder to get rid of. Perhaps it will be in 'DBpro 2005 XT'.

lol, a thing they could do is a simple command that would solve many problems:
make mesh from matrix
And perhaps we could finally get rid of those matrices.
(this would just be the start, aimed for those who are too lazy to write their own function to do this. I know it would be useful, cos I've done quite a few of these for many different projects.)

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Rob K
Retired Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 9th Oct 2003 14:50
Link
@Indi

I don't think you are following Drake's line of thought though. He isn't asking that TGC get rid of limbs and put nothing in its place, he is asking that limbs be removed and a superior system be put in its place.

For example:

chopper=Load Object("multilimbed.x")
camera=Make Camera()

blades=GetChild(chopper,1)

blureffect=Load Effect("motionblur.fx")
Set Object Effect blades,blureffect

Set Object Parent camera,chopper

Do
Turn Object Left blades,10
Loop

==================================

As you can see from this source though, you would need to make other serious changes as well, and that is unlikely to happen.


BLUE GUI Plugin: http://blue.robert-knight.net
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2026-07-26 12:33:10
Your offset time is: 2026-07-26 12:33:10