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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / [STICKY] U77 Public Release Candidate

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baxslash
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Posted: 14th Jul 2011 16:09
Sorry if I'm missing it but what are the "Touch Gesture" commands mentioned in the first post? I can't find anything in the keywords files...

I assume they're for touch-screen technology?

Green Gandalf
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Posted: 14th Jul 2011 23:55
Quote: "Sorry if I'm missing it but what are the "Touch Gesture" commands mentioned in the first post? I can't find anything in the keywords files...

I assume they're for touch-screen technology?"


Good question. Probably just another Help file omission ...
baxslash
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Posted: 15th Jul 2011 10:48
I just wondered because it might help with my current WIP for touchscreen devices. I'm aiming to make it possible to use mouse/touch control for everything.

aerostudios
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Posted: 16th Jul 2011 15:41
I've tried running the u77 update on my Windows 7 Pro (64 bit) system. But, it doesn't appear to be changing anything. It's still showing 1.076 as the version of the compiler from the about link. I've done it multiple times and it still says the same thing. It's also still behaving as if I have not updated; will not compile and run, it just compiles and sits here. Also getting the "invalid parameter" error running other compiled programs.

Just to be sure, I let the update extract everything to a different folder to compare the files that are being replaced/updated. The DBPcompiler file is dated 1/30/2011. Is that correct?

Russell B. Davis/aerostudios
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 16th Jul 2011 22:49
Quote: "Is that correct?"


Not sure. It's 31/1/2011 on mine. More importantly, the DLLs in the Plugins folder are dated 13/4/2011 for the latest version (U77RC7).
Greenster
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Posted: 9th Aug 2011 23:04
it's better to hash compare, and use exeinfo or peid to get the binary info.

anyone know when lee will start back to work on RC8?
griffirr
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Posted: 30th Aug 2011 13:39
Suppose they'll ever add the the Dark Imposters plugin to this. I would buy it, the plugin, but I need to run the app under win7 SP1 and as far as I know this is the only version with the fix for that. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
baxslash
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Posted: 30th Aug 2011 13:48
I could be wrong but I believe the fix for W7 is in the latest none Beta release of DBP too, which also works with DI.

KISTech
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Posted: 30th Aug 2011 21:17
I think the fix for Win7 came out in beta 3 of U77.

baxslash
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Posted: 31st Aug 2011 10:44
Quote: "I think the fix for Win7 came out in beta 3 of U77."

It did but I believe they put it into the main release too (U61?). I would check the DarkImposters release thread as I think there are details there...

griffirr
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Posted: 31st Aug 2011 13:52 Edited at: 31st Aug 2011 13:55
I find no mention of the win7 sp1 fix in the newest release documentation. The dark imposters thread has no mention of this. The fix (win7 sp1) has nothing to do with dark imposters and I'm happy with the beta release (dbpro) at this time. Although my customer requires a full release. I only hope that the latest focus on appup does not reduce support for dbp as I've seen so many times before. Money over quality seems to be the problem with the software industry nowadays, consider DarkPhysics. I'm supprised that this simple plugin support was not added to the RC as soon as the plunin was released, especially since no other versions of dbp work with win7 SP1. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
mr_d
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Posted: 31st Aug 2011 15:48
hi griffirr, I have to back up what baxslash has said, as from personal experience, I too was waiting for this fix in a "Release" version since U7.5 came out and have found that U761 works for me (I have Win7SP1-64-bit). Someone else has said that it didn't work for them, but I can only speak from my own personal experience - as you've said they did not mention the topic in the change log.

KISTech
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Posted: 31st Aug 2011 18:21 Edited at: 31st Aug 2011 18:22
(nevermind) I missed a post on the last page...

JackDawson
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Posted: 5th Sep 2011 08:03
Not to be a spoiled sport here, but does anyone have any idea as to when the bug to the Fog vs Light Shadow will be fixed ? A time frame is what I am curious about. Not trying to be pushy and I mean all do respect here. I am just more curious so I know what I need to do until then.

If you want to know more about the bug I found, here is the link.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=188950&b=1

Thanks for any help / info I can get in advance.

"Son, I crap bigger then you !"
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 6th Sep 2011 13:55
The latest RC (RC7) has completely broken the set shadow shading command when the shader option is used. The following code (posted by Spooky eons ago) worked perfectly up to RC6. With RC7 no shadows appear at all. This is in addition to the fog+shadow bug that I reported for RC6 in Bug Reports.

JackDawson
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Posted: 6th Sep 2011 15:40
Glad to know its not just me having this bug. I was going insane, thinking I wrote something wrong or something was out of order.. lol

"Life is like a box of chocolates.. eat it before it melts."
WickedVixen
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Posted: 6th Sep 2011 17:30
Any chance that we could get an 'alias' of CASE DEFAULT?
I choose OTHERWISE, like in Think Pascal for Mac. It's a few characters shorter and it makes for easier reading. CASE DEFAULT seems a tad clunky, especially when you're in a SELECT CASE list... OTHERWISE would do the trick for me!

Thanks for the consideration...

Green Gandalf
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Posted: 6th Sep 2011 19:23
"case default" seems clear enough to me, i.e. the default action when no action is given for the specific value provided.
EdzUp
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Posted: 17th Oct 2011 22:07
Crikey missed this (rather large) thread good to see DBPro is still being worked on, does it have streams yet like HTTP streams?

-EdzUp
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Santman
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Posted: 20th Oct 2011 20:52
Same here with the shadow shader - soon as I install this, it goes wonky and doesn't render anything other than a half circle on a sphere. Appears to switch off the shadow shader for some reason. Would copying the shader file from the previous version, updating, then replacing the shader files with the earlier ones work maybe???
tiresius
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Posted: 26th Oct 2011 19:53
I really hope the shadow shader gets fixed soon. Otherwise I'll have to choose between shadows and Win7 support.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
Greenster
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Posted: 16th Nov 2011 11:28
I don't think anyone is actually working on DBP right now, lees and everyone are all on appkit.
JackDawson
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Posted: 16th Nov 2011 14:35 Edited at: 16th Nov 2011 14:37
Greenster, I am starting to think your right. Its why I quit using DB products all together. I see a lot of people in this thread talk about specific things that needed fixing that apparently worked previously or none at all. And I see people commenting about performance drop with the "new fixes". But I have seen no attempt at fixing anything here. No new updates.. nothing. DBP looks dead. My friends have been telling me outside of this forum that they are moving on to other languages, like PowerBASIC or VisualBASIC. I'm not a VisualBASIC fan, but PowerBASIC is really well done and works. With no problems. Has a graphic library you can get for it as well as other features that makes it impressive. AND, they are always working on fixing it, not to mention it has inline assembly abilities. DB Pro however.. well.. bottom line, they got their money, so they don't care to fix what we paid for. Which is a huge disappointment. My apologies if I seem bitter, but I haven't seen anything to show my statements wrong. I'm just frustrated and stating how I feel about this. It would be nice to be proven wrong.

"Life is like a box of chocolates.. eat it before it melts."
baxslash
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Posted: 16th Nov 2011 14:41
AGK does seem to be the main focus at the moment but I would be surprised if DBP is left completely now. There are still loads of users including myself and AppGameKit is very new and very far from complete.

It would be nice to know when DBP is being fixed again though... I understand and share your frustration. Nothing worse than waiting for a fix! (No drugs reference intended)

EdzUp
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Posted: 16th Nov 2011 16:13
Seeing as the patch is a release candidate surely something more 'solid' would be a good idea to give users a hope that its being sorted.

-EdzUp
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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 17th Nov 2011 02:44
hey all

we all would like DBP to be just in the right place

DB got them started and when it got upped to DBP

it's basically left at that point

I do not know about you folks but the other programing languages
are more than I am set to understand

DBP Is the cloestest I will be able to makeing games with
I've spent many hours looking at other peoples code and I understand
some of what I am looking at, i've even gotten to the point

I can even help people from time to time , compared to the early days
when I first got DBP

all we can do is keep bugging them
if ms had be kicked a few more times then maybe one day they might
turn out a good windows what ever #

so far they fall short and with a lot of bug's
DBP Dose have a bug or two or 5 but they are workable or should I say livable

I'm willing to hang in there and see what happens

8 dvd's of payed stuff with tones of example's
people have posted in the forum's

and the free addition's people have made that in some cases replaced
the payed for dll's that were a bit out dated

we ask and we ask again and we keep up the pushing

I know there is a new Dark Physic's being worked on
and will be sold some time down the roads

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
griffirr
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Posted: 28th Nov 2011 12:15
Resourceful,

I agree.
Greenster
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 06:47
It's actually intelligent to consolidate AppGameKit and DBP, only problem is PC would be the only platform to have 3D and it'd cause confusion.

I use PB or python these days though, I bought DBP years ago and made a game in it, but it has no thread API and no acceess to native API, DLLs also have strict restrictions on data type handling and require a bulky SDK..
JackDawson
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 06:58 Edited at: 1st Dec 2011 07:00
PowerBASIC is cool Greenster, how long you been using it ?

I been contemplating going over and buying their newest windows compiler. Its come a long ways. Its up to version 10 now.

Pricy, but it is solid. My friend has a copy and he warned me not to get PB Pro. But I didn't listen. Wish I had now. :/

"Life is like a box of chocolates.. eat it before it melts."
Greenster
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 10:04
I meant PureBASIC. I've been using it about 2 years, only because it produces optimized binaries that allow easy access to anything, and is cross platform. Very stable too and no need for any runtimes or non-OEM install libraries(except for updated DX or OGL).

I'd buy AppGameKit if they ever refined and consolidated it to be honest. But I couldn't ever do professional work with it because of the required runtime and the licensing. They should also add J2ME support(all profiles), it's on even low-end mobiles and has all the same functionality(except networking on some standard profiles).
=PRoF=
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 11:30
@Greenster:
Quote: "
because of the required runtime and the licensing.
"


What do you mean by this?

baxslash
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 11:39 Edited at: 1st Dec 2011 11:40
I assume the runtimes he's referring to are the the ones that your users need to have installed which are not provided with Windows as standard . Whenever I publish a game on AppUp I need to include about 60Mb of Merge Module for the game to run on a fresh machine.

It doubles the size of any game I produce in DBPro. AppGameKit games can be less than 1Mb in size and run on any machine (so far as I'm aware).

EDIT: I see he's talking about AppGameKit sorry, that being the case I'd like to know too.

=PRoF=
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 11:52 Edited at: 1st Dec 2011 12:03
@Baxslash:
I'll bow to your superior knowledge of App Up, but with my DBP projects I usually just include the DX9 web installer, which is run as part of set up; and the vc++ redists required by Matrix1 (Which are included in my app/game folder as part of installation again). Most people already have DX9 in my experience (especially those who play games). Both these things are relatively tiny.

Yeah, it was the AppGameKit side of things I was questioning, I must admit to not having tested much in AppGameKit yet (Due to Deviceless-ness and an annoying issue where AppGameKit won't compile on my main dev machine) but I wasn't aware of any needed runtimes.

As for the licencing, I have always found TGC have been very lenient with licencing. I even had a quick search when I read the question and could find nothing overly restrictive or unnecessary (imo) with the AppGameKit licencing.

baxslash
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 12:03
Quote: "I'll bow to your superior knowledge of App Up, but with my DBP projects I usually just include the DX9 web installer, which is run as part of set up; and the vc++ redists required by Matrix1 (Which are included in my app/game folder as part of installation again). Most people already have DX9 in my experience (especially those who play games). Both these things are relatively tiny."

Unfortunately you need to provide a silent full installer in the form of an msi. TGC provided a simple Merge Module containing the required runtimes. You still have to include any other dll's such as the ones for Matrix Utils too.

Quote: "Yeah, it was the AppGameKit side of things I was questioning, I must admit to not having tested much in AppGameKit yet (Due to Deviceless-ness and an annoying issue where AppGameKit won't compile on my main dev machine) but I wasn't aware of any needed runtimes."

Sorry to hear that. What's your machine?

I'm unaware of any additional runtimes required for AppGameKit games.

Licensing is not a problem in AppGameKit either except that you have to buy it to sell your games but that's not exactly unfair to ask

=PRoF=
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 12:11 Edited at: 1st Dec 2011 12:13
@Baxslash:
I have no real plans to publish on AppUp, but I will bear that in mind. iOS and Droid are the targets for my first commercial release, (Hence my concerns at Greensters statement)

My main PC, is a Windows 7 64 bit machine. AppGameKit did run fine on it, but now my project refuses to compile. It could be a botched upgrade, or maybe even just a corrupt file in the project file. I've not really had time to test or sort it out. It compiles and runs fine on the laptop, so I have just been using that

Greenster
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 17:39 Edited at: 1st Dec 2011 17:51
@=PRoF=: The AppGameKit requires a runtime app on IOS and Android. I'm not totally sure if it's for published apps, but it is at least for testing(not issue for testing but unattractive if for published apps). The licensing is $999 per seat after a $100k USD turnover/earning which also drives a lot of people away(not me..just greedy companies(mostly because of additional fees for IOS)).

Another turnoff is the additional $100 license for IOS dev. If you do contracts like me, then you know you gotta out bid, and it's usually against 3rd world brokers and devs who work for almost nothing..

I won't do a big paragraph regarding the signing+approval platforms for the firmwares, which looks like they were designed by a person with mental problems..especially IOS.
baxslash
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 17:46
Quote: "The AppGameKit requires a runtime app on IOS and Android. I'm not totally sure if it's for published apps, but it is at least for testing(not issue for testing but unattractive if for published apps)."

Do you mean the AppGameKit Player? If so that's just for testing.

Quote: "The licensing is $999 per seat after a $100k USD turnover/earning which also drives a lot of people away"

That's a pretty small fee for a company with that kind of turnover. Not sure how other development platforms like Unity and Monkey compare though.

Quote: "I'd buy AppGameKit if they ever refined and consolidated it to be honest. But I couldn't ever do professional work with it because of the required runtime and the licensing."

Clearly you are worried about the licensing cost, does that make you a greedy company

Seriously though I wouldn't write AppGameKit off in its early stages, already there are a few published AppGameKit games.

=PRoF=
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 17:59
@Greenster:
Ah, Ok. I'm certain that you can compile Tier 1 bytecode to run independently of the player/viewer software. But as I understand it, it's quite a convoluted method, and is different for each platform.

The licencing seems very very reasonable to me? I'd consider making $100,000 (or £65,000) in a year a huge success, (albeit a little hopeful, lol). I for one look forward to paying TGC the extra money

Greenster
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 18:14 Edited at: 1st Dec 2011 18:17
@baxslash: I'm a contractor who has to bid war with an army of other contractors, firms, and brokers from all over the world..The padded costs loses me significant income. I'm one developer..self employed..this very much matters.

IOS is the only problem causer really because of the additional license which is a prerequisite to the signing keys you have to have to even test on a device. Android you can easily build and distribute without a license.

This also matters to the independent app and/or game dev, even more so since they are self-funding on typically low-budgets..

[B]EDIT/b] I also think the licensing is beyond fair..unfortunately people who manage projects for big 'disconnected' companies venturing into marketing through app popularity..go by the numbers. I'll probably purchase and use AppGameKit still, once it gets more stable where I can predict stability on devices I don't own and can't afford to buy.
baxslash
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2011 09:35
Quote: "I'm a contractor who has to bid war with an army of other contractors, firms, and brokers from all over the world..The padded costs loses me significant income. I'm one developer..self employed..this very much matters."

I sell software to contractors and they would not consider spending less than 1% of their yearly income (in a one off payment) on maintaining their main production software an inflated cost (many of them spend that with us on a yearly basis). Fair doesn't really come into it, if you don't want to buy the software for $999 you can choose to use Unity for iOS and Android only (none pro lisence) = $800, pro lisence = $4500 or Monkey for $99 (I think) or anything else on the market (or code without an SDK).

It's all down to opinion really, I guess ours differ. Maybe we should leave the off topic discussion here. You can always contact me via email if you want to discuss it further? (I mean that in a friendly way )

Here's a tip regarding App signing that might help you (for a year at least), if you sign up as a developer for AppUp they'll provide you with a free Comodo certificate that's valid for a year

JackDawson
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2011 14:03 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2011 14:03
If your worried about costs, believe it or not, there are free alternatives for programming phone apps. But, they have a steep learning curve because of all the tools involved to get to that point. I have made a few apps about a year ago to test the theory and it is possible to make apps for any devices if you know multiple languages to do so. But it is 100 % free. You would have to do some googleing to find what all you need.

AGK on the other hand just makes it easier to do. Although I'll never buy anymore products from TGC until they fix DarkBasic Pro, the program I paid for, I will however admit that AppGameKit looks to be shaping up quite nicely.

"Life is like a box of chocolates.. eat it before it melts."
Irradic
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Posted: 20th Dec 2011 18:54
The year is coming to an end and there is no update in sight.
I'm feeling like I'm having a deja vu from the time FPSC X10 was released.
Obviously Lee and Co are still busy tending to their new baby "AGK".

It would be great if the source code on Google would be extended with the code for the renderer. Or make it available as an extra download for DBPro (retail, online shop) owners.
I'm sure there are people on this forum who would love to get their hands dirty and do so optimizations or additions.
Personally I would like to see what could be done regarding multiple render targets.

Wyldhunt
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Posted: 20th Dec 2011 19:57
I agree.
If AppGameKit has become the new focus, at least release the full DBP source to the paying customers. We could help with a lot of the bugs in the software and maybe even get TGC a few more sales once it's fixed. The community may decide it's worth it to have bug free software.
DBP is on the verge of being great. It just needs a bit more work. I've no argument against AppGameKit, but if the focus has become AppGameKit, then something should be done to not drop all of us who use DBP. I think giving the source to paying customers would be a good way.
I can't imagine TGC hoping to still make money on abandonware. If they open it up to paid customers, it wouldn't be abandonware any more.
Brendy boy
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Posted: 20th Dec 2011 20:44
Quote: "It would be great if the source code on Google would be extended with the code for the renderer. "

Quote: "at least release the full DBP source to the paying customers."

The code on google code IS complete and contains among other things renderer code too.

JackDawson
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Posted: 20th Dec 2011 21:08 Edited at: 20th Dec 2011 21:43
Wait what ? there is source code for DBP ?

I am a paying customer, where can I get this. I would get back into DBP if I knew where the code was and as others have stated, we could optimize it and fix the bugs.

EDIT : Found it. Thanks

EDIT 2 : Wow I didn't realize that DarkBasic Pro was just the IDE to the DLLs of DarkGDK. That website shows the code to compile down to the DarkGDK DLLs and you must make your own GUI / IDE if you want to use those DLLs. Do I have this right or am I missing something here ?

"Life is like a box of chocolates.. eat it before it melts."
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 21st Dec 2011 01:15
I know once I get every thing understood which i am much closer too
than I was 10 years ago when it was just DB

I would post in my games that would be sold
what I used to make it

so that would get more people interested in Buying DBP

DarkGDK is way beyond my options to understand at this point
even c++ or similar is too much to get my head wrapped around

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
Wyldhunt
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Posted: 21st Dec 2011 01:31 Edited at: 21st Dec 2011 01:33
DBP Source Code:
http://code.google.com/p/darkbasicpro/

For reference
JackDawson
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Posted: 21st Dec 2011 02:14
Yea, that link is what I have. Its Dark Basic Pro ( DarkSDK ) DLLs. Its not the actual IDE code. Its just the DLLs that the IDE uses.

"Life is like a box of chocolates.. eat it before it melts."
Brendy boy
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Posted: 21st Dec 2011 09:52
Quote: "and you must make your own GUI / IDE if you want to use those DLLs. Do I have this right or am I missing something here ?"

No, you can use whatever ide you want -> code surge, old IDE, indigo etc.
All you have to do is compile the dlls and place them in compiler/plugins folder

Santman
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Posted: 21st Dec 2011 12:05
Am I the only person here missing the big picture? I BOUGHT DB because I wanted something that allowed me to focus on content, and not have to learn C++ etc. All respect to the creators, but we bought the product - I fail to see AT ALL why it should be left to the users to fix their bugs. Lets face it - if Skyrim (as an example) had been launched and couldn't be completed or features just didn't work, Bethesda wouldn't get away with saying "oh, someone from the modding community can fix it, we'll just publish the source files" - we'd all want a full refund. Maybe that's what we should all start doing - after all, under the trades descriptions, DBPro is not doing exactly what it says on the tin.

GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER GAME CREATORS!!!

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