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3 Dimensional Chat / Modelling People - Solid Mesh vs. Individual

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anwserman
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Posted: 25th May 2011 16:20
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Hello everyone!
I just have a simple question.. how do you all model people?

Whenever I model, I try to make the models out of individual pieces, and have them overlap at the joints. That way, when I animate the mesh, it moves freely without deformities at all.

However, I know there's other ways to model, like using a solid body. However, improperly modeling the mesh can cause major deformities in it to form when animating.

Each has pro's and cons. Perhaps the best way is to use a combination of both. But how do you all model?
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Design Runner
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Posted: 25th May 2011 23:47
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When I was learning (still am, always will be), I was told specifically to always make everything from one mesh. If it is going to be animated, you need to learn to model properly for animation, simple (yet so amazingly complex) as that. While that is what I was taught, there are other techniques.

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JLMoondog
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Posted: 26th May 2011 00:17 Edited at: 26th May 2011 00:19
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There is actually no universal right way, only the right way for the right situation.

I can't really explain it as every situation is different and calls for certain things when it comes to character modeling.

But to give some examples, take Fallout 3:


Their characters are broken up into several parts; body, head, gear, etc. Each one has been modeled separately and can easily be switched out and replaced to create a near endless range of character designs. On top of that, the heads are fully customizable in shape, color and aesthetic quality's. This gives the game a diverse feel and allows the player to become a part of the world they are playing in making the experience much more enjoyable then if everyone looked exactly the same. This sort of depth would be impossible to achieve if the artist had to model every character as one mesh.

Now look at Warcraft 3,


Every unit is made up of a single mesh(minus maybe his weapon or if he rides a vehicle) as there is no need for variations that cannot be done with a texture. In WC3 that would be the different colors used to represent each player. If the characters were given the same treatment as FO3 then it would be a waist of time and effort for the artist as the units are never seen close up and for more then a few seconds(especially when your trying to play a mp game).

So basically plan ahead.

http://www.jlmoondog.com/
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That Guy John
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Posted: 26th May 2011 01:02
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Quote: "overlap at the joints"

The problem with that is you may end up with some unwanted (not sure how to say it) texturre odities where the meshes overlap.

I remember being told that models had to be one single mesh, I tried and tried and got frustrated. I have found for myself that you can do models in parts, just try to limit the number of parts. In other words, shoot for a single mesh but don't beat your brains out if you end up with a couple different meshes for one model.

Your biggest impact comes in at UV Mapping, at least thats how I feel about it. I think that was the hardest thing for me to overcome.

And Here Is A Penguin:
FPSC OneSource [DeskTop App] - Bringing everything together into one.
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Quik
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Posted: 26th May 2011 01:24
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A model doesnt by any means have to be a single mesh, but especially with characters, unless it will be like, changing clothes (josh covered that pretty well).
Keeping it a single mesh has its advantages, especially with texturing and animating i've noticed myself, however it might take a bit more effort in the sole modelling part.

this model that i made a while back:


is made out of many individual pieces: for example, the shirt is one piece, the head another, the neck another and so on.
This made the uvmapping part easy for me, and since it was for the compo I wasnt going to bother with animation. Now, if i were to animate this, I would probably have to add more geometry so that I have skin inside the shirt for example, otherwise the player or viewer might see under the shirt and ask: why is there no skin?

so yeah, it all depends on what your going to do with it, but i personally try to keep my models relativly connected.

and for the record, I am a man.

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anwserman
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Posted: 26th May 2011 08:25
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Ok. I'll prolly do what I've typically done; solid mesh for body and separate for limbs, at least for now. Now, if I export to .X, I can only use one texture... However one child mesh out of the model would need an animated texture. Are there any ms3d plugins that export to .dbo?

Are the UV values of the model stored as percentages? If I reassign a new texture the old values will still apply, e.g a side of a box uses 100% of a 256x256 texture, if a 128x128 Tex is applied it would use 100% (not 400%)?
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The Zoq2
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Posted: 27th May 2011 00:10
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I think you can make sevral parts if you feel that's easier and then merge them into one solid mesh. Im not sure if that works in other modelling tools though

Srry about my english im from sweeden
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Quik
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Posted: 27th May 2011 00:13
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Quote: "I think you can make sevral parts if you feel that's easier and then merge them into one solid mesh. Im not sure if that works in other modelling tools though
"


that also works, but then you need to keep in mind how many polygons the merging place has, how the edgeloops go and so on

a lot more to keep in mind that way, i know i used to model that way.

and for the record, I am a man.

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Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 27th May 2011 00:44
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in the end it really does not matter on the fact .x files are treated as one mesh. So if you like to model piece by piece its ok to do so. Some people think its eaiser to model with one single mesh as all you need to do is have one good mesh to build with. I think for games it should all be one piece for a low poly count.

my signature keeps being erased by a mod So this is my new signature.
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seppgirty
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Posted: 27th May 2011 01:16
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the way you model also depends on the game program you are using. in DB classic and i think blitz basic, they use .x 7 that's when you would build your characters in pieces. dark basic pro uses .x8 (wich is bone based animation) and there you could use a single mesh....

i feel that cartoon characters look good built in segments and realalistic characters look better as a single mesh....

i guess it's a matter of opinion in some cases

gamer, lover, filmmaker
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PrimalBeans
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Posted: 27th May 2011 06:59
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i cant remember were but there is some tutorials on deform technic that is really good. I would say solid mesh but as josh says there are different apps were this wouldnt be the case... basically you need to know whats going on with the model in action. Tell us what your trying to accomplish and im sure there is a good solution. In the case of interchangable parts its good to have a dummy to model around but at the same time not required to have a singel mesh model. In the case of limbs though you should learn to use a single mesh and deform joints properly to get the most from your polies.

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That Guy John
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Posted: 27th May 2011 16:43
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Quote: " Now, if I export to .X, I can only use one texture"

Like with everything, I suppose it depends on what you plan to do with the model.

For example, if you are just rendering a scene composed of multiple .x models, each model can have there own texure file.
For instance, I can import multiple models (already indivually textured) into AC3D, export the scene to .X and view the scene in DXViewer with no problems.

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lazerus
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Posted: 27th May 2011 17:42
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In terms of modeling these days its nearly all a complete mesh by the time its finished. This is mostly down to seam preventation, to keep a models realism and for tesselation/ higher generated Lod's.

Even chop shop varitations have there seams welded.

At any rate its not hard to plan ahead when modeling loops and flow. It may take a little more effort, but it always pays off. I tend to model the torso first, then the limbs and then the head each on its own seperate mesh and weld them together. But thats just my way of doing it.

just my 2cents.


http://lazerus-reborn.deviantart.com/
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That Guy John
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Posted: 27th May 2011 19:39
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Laz,
What is the proper way to use welds?
When possible in AC3D I use "boolean" > "Union" to join two objects, then I use "vertex" > "weld" to get rid of the unwanted verticies, is the what it is intended for?

And Here Is A Penguin:
FPSC OneSource [DeskTop App] - Bringing everything together into one.
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lazerus
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Posted: 27th May 2011 20:24
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I dont use Ac3d so i'm not sure of its features but welding is;




Basically joining 2 or more vertices up.


http://lazerus-reborn.deviantart.com/
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