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Geek Culture / An after thought on why people get offended at...

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Chris K
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2003 18:38
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I suppose what I was trying to say was this:

If heaven if perfect and you believe you will go there when you die then why are we filled with an overwhelming desire to not die. Even babies will do anything to stay alive. Why are Christian cancer sufferers upset that they will go to heaven sooner?

I'm sorry if I sound rude, I just really want to know what Chrsitians think about this.

Also, there's this:

If there is no sin in heaven then how was there a fallen angel? Surely he sinned in heaven. Where-ever we have free choice, there can be sin; even in heaven.

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Arrow
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2003 05:17
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Quote: "Anyway, I believe in another place before heaven... people can only go to heaven once they become 'worthy' otherwise they stay for eternity in this other place."
Ah, you should read up on the Tree of Life, one of the few western Religous ideas I like.

Quote: "If heaven if perfect and you believe you will go there when you die then why are we filled with an overwhelming desire to not die. Even babies will do anything to stay alive. Why are Christian cancer sufferers upset that they will go to heaven sooner?"
Like I said, you can't throw out millions of years of life and evolution over a concept there barely been around for 3000 years. "To live, is to live". The very purpose of life is to contenue to live.

As for the second part, I think if there is some truth to Chirstianity they oviously dumbed down some of the point that are 'uncomfortable'. The fact that an all mighty, all knowing, all loving god would allow bad things to happen to good people makes little sence unless he/she/it had little choce to do otherwise.


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Chris K
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2003 12:08
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Many Christians do not believe in evolution. The Bible dates the world at about 6000 years old. Does anyone here believe both of these? If so, can you explain my question?

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Chris K
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2003 16:34
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Hello?

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Arrow
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2003 16:53
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4 hours? Give 'em some time for crying out loud, at least a full day. In any cace it maybe a long wait. The few contribuating christian parties swore off thread thread a while back. I had been being a little tackless the last few post to try to stimulate some responces, but it looks like they've kept their word.


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Chris K
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2003 17:24
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Oh well.

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sonec gaimr1
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Posted: 24th Nov 2003 21:23
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Quote: "If heaven is perfect and you believe you will go there when you die then why are we filled with an overwhelming desire to not die. Even babies will do anything to stay alive. Why are Christian cancer sufferers upset that they will go to heaven sooner?"


I have a couple of theorys on this

1.
Quote: "Even babies will do anything to stay alive."

Well, of course they will. Almost any way of dying is painful. So do you think that baby is just going to sit there and not do anything about it?

2.
Quote: "If heaven is perfect and you believe you will go there when you die then why are we filled with an overwhelming desire to not die."

I have met many people who want to die. The reason is, I'm guessing, is that they have a personal relationship with God. And I believe what they say for two reason. They seem happy and joyful all the time, and I keep getting hints from them about the rapture (see www.leftbehind.com).
3.
Quote: "Why are Christian cancer sufferers upset that they will go to heaven sooner?"

Where did you here that?

Bert is evil, Barney is evil, and the Pillsbury Doughboy is evil. I knew it from the start.
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Arrow
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Posted: 25th Nov 2003 05:04
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Very few poeople are completely ok with death, it scares most everyone, and for good reason, it's a complete unknown. No one really knows what lies beyound it, people fear what they don't understand. With death there is no return (at least to your old life) the idea that you may never see your loved ones scares people. The pain issue is also part of it, but I don't think it's a large part.


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las6
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Posted: 25th Nov 2003 12:08
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Even if people do believe in God, they still might not want to die. Some like it down here. Plus, change is usually perceived as a bad thing. and then there's the whole loved ones thingy.. So give it a bit more thought before blabbing all sorts of things, will you?

but me, I would have no trouble taking some cancer or anything. Then again, I'm a bit unusual guy anyway.

Quote: "Even babies will do anything to stay alive"

many babies could actually easily kill themselves by accident if there weren't parents.

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sonec gaimr1
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Posted: 25th Nov 2003 20:50
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That's a good explaination, las6

Bert is evil, Barney is evil, and the Pillsbury Doughboy is evil. I knew it from the start.
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Chris K
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Posted: 26th Nov 2003 20:49
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I don't think I worded it right but you've pretty much explained it anyway.

Another thing:
If you are a Christian and your best friend/wife isn't, would you go to heaven without them, hence would it be perfect?

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Arrow
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 16:56
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Religion is Man's way of explaining the unknown. Man is flawed so all his theories will be flawed at one point or another aswell. Even if he receaves Divine intervention, he'll probably still mess it up, and he doesn't his friend will. Such is the nature of Humanity.


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 17:23
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Quote: "Man is flawed so all his theories will be flawed at one point or another aswell."


That in itself is your own theory. If your theory is flawed, then man is right! Lol! I'm saying that your quote doesn't make much sense.

Pincho.
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Chris K
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 20:25
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I have to agree with Arrow. There's way to much contridicition and far too many flaws (in my opinion) for The Bible to be true. I think the writers embelished it too much and left it...confused.

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Arrow
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Posted: 28th Nov 2003 04:16 Edited at: 28th Nov 2003 16:15
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Quote: "That in itself is your own theory. If your theory is flawed, then man is right! Lol! I'm saying that your quote doesn't make much sense."
Thus it proves itself into a pardox, I think Pardoxes have some kind of element truth attached to them. In any case that theroy uses the Catholic POV.


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Ian T
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Posted: 28th Nov 2003 04:53
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Chris-- thing is, the authors of The Bible were playing left-hand-dosen't-know-what-the-right-hand's-doing; it's just collected works of various scholars. Many would not be considered true christians by today's standards of some christian groups, although follow the Bible, which is quite ironic.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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Chris K
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Posted: 28th Nov 2003 10:16
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Right.

I always thought it was weird how there could be so many different 'Christian' groups, who all follow the Bible, but who all disagree about it. (Protestants, Catholics, Babptists etc.)

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las6
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Posted: 28th Nov 2003 11:00
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people often want to prove their theories with bible. You can really say just about anything you want if you pick out some sentences. This actually explains the whole contradiction theory. People just read parts and don't usually get the context.

There's a "right" way to read bible, but I'm not gonna go into that in here.


Quote: "If you are a Christian and your best friend/wife isn't, would you go to heaven without them, hence would it be perfect?"


erm, does best friend / wife make life perfect? Of course they make the life "almost perfect" down here. But Heaven is something you shouldn't try to think in the logical way. If it's perfect there it's perfect. But why do you think it has anything to do with anything that is down here. I mean, the whole concept of perfect and what makes life perfect is probably different.
One thing I know, is that there isn't marriages and such in heaven. You can look it up if you want. Still doesn't mean I couldn't love someone with all my heart down here. Just that I'm realistic. ;D

@Arrow
Nice paradox.

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Chris K
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Posted: 28th Nov 2003 20:57 Edited at: 28th Nov 2003 20:58
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OK.

Another thing (yes, another):

The devil is pure evil, right? So he/it/whatever never does anything good?

God believes that justice is good.

Hence, by punishing bad people isn't the devil, in a way, being good?

I realise that he couldn't show them compassion either, so I guess its just another contridicition.

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Arrow
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Posted: 29th Nov 2003 05:24
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No, the chirstain never have liked the idea of balance, something most other religions embrace. They refuse the idea that the devil has an important part in existants, nor do they admit that Good and Evil are equil and completely dependant on each other. Like two sides of a coin, one can not exist without the other.


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Chris K
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Posted: 29th Nov 2003 10:13
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Hey, just like in the matrix!

Any Christians care to share their views on it?

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