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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Saving a BlitzTerrain as X?

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Mugen Wizardry
User Banned
Posted: 10th Aug 2011 01:15 Edited at: 10th Aug 2011 01:17
Ok, now that is WEIRD BEYOND comprehension. o.o

Attached is a photo of what it's doing.

Here is the code I use to create the terrain:



Here is the code thats bugging it.



The code that's bugging it is in the main loop.

And yes, I tried ur fix



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KISTech
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Posted: 10th Aug 2011 02:30
Press F2 to Save the terrain objects
Press F3 to Load the terrain objects you saved



In your main loop before the sync, put this around your BlitzTerrain Update lines.

if BT TerrainExist(1)
...
endif

So that when you press F2, which deletes the BlitzTerrain, you wont get an error that it doesn't exist.

Keep your code, and your concepts simple. The simpler the code is, the easier it is to find the errors and get it working.

This code should work for any size terrain, even if you change the split value.

Mugen Wizardry
User Banned
Posted: 10th Aug 2011 14:06
Um, read integer and write integer are NOT a command. :/

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Mugen Wizardry
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Posted: 10th Aug 2011 14:21 Edited at: 10th Aug 2011 15:21
EDIT: Ok, read the below comment please.

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Mugen Wizardry
User Banned
Posted: 10th Aug 2011 14:38 Edited at: 10th Aug 2011 15:18
EDIT: I got it to texture. Now it just needs the correct detail, and a way to save all the objects as 1 big object, as well as saving the detail on TO that one object. Then its done



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Mugen Wizardry
User Banned
Posted: 10th Aug 2011 16:01
I tried texture staging. THAT didnt work ><

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baxslash
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Posted: 10th Aug 2011 16:08
Mugen, you'll get slapped by a mod if you keep double / triple / quadruple posting. I do it myself sometimes when I want to draw attention to a new item but not like this...

Mugen Wizardry
User Banned
Posted: 10th Aug 2011 16:12
Sorry... -.-

ANYway. The texture must look like this when viewed up close:



NOT like this:



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Mugen Wizardry
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Posted: 10th Aug 2011 18:21
Ok, I've tried texture staging, that didn't work ><

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Mugen Wizardry
User Banned
Posted: 10th Aug 2011 18:55
I tried texture divide when I load the object. THAT didnt work ><

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Mugen Wizardry
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Posted: 10th Aug 2011 19:54 Edited at: 10th Aug 2011 20:14
Ok. We have another problem. I tried to write ALL the pieces to one mesh. But it went HORRIBLY wrong. o.o



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Mobiius
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Posted: 10th Aug 2011 20:14
Why do you need to save them as objects anyway? Any gain in speed for using BlitzTerrains is lost when you save them as objects as they will no longer have any LOD? You just shifting the delay when loading, into a delay when displaying. This will slow your game down quite a lot if you're using huge terrain objects...

You're better off using BlitzTerrains save commands to save the terrains to disk as a native format, so you retain the LOD you created, but get much much faster terrain loading..

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Mugen Wizardry
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Posted: 10th Aug 2011 20:16
Because I need to export it to another object. I need the LOD. Just please. Alls I need, is to get it to texture correctly, with the correct detail, using a texture map and detail map.

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Mobiius
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Posted: 10th Aug 2011 20:24 Edited at: 10th Aug 2011 20:26
Does the DBO format not retain the original texture details?

also...
Quote: "I need to export it to another object."

and
Quote: "I need the LOD"

To get LOD this way, you'd need to export each LOD level of each sector object, further slowing the program down??

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Mugen Wizardry
User Banned
Posted: 10th Aug 2011 20:25
No it does not. I tried. it shows up as that blurred texture I showed above.

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Mobiius
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Posted: 10th Aug 2011 20:28
It looks like the dbo object is not keeping the UV data of the various texture stages, and stretching the detail map over what it thinks is the whole terrain, rather than just that segment. You may have to set it manually by setting blend mapping on and texturing the objects yourself.

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Mugen Wizardry
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Posted: 10th Aug 2011 20:29
How would I do that? I will NOT give up until I learn how to do this

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Mugen Wizardry
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Posted: 10th Aug 2011 21:00 Edited at: 10th Aug 2011 21:00
I tried this, but its still stretching the texture and detail map ><



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KISTech
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Posted: 10th Aug 2011 21:06
Have you seen this?



This is BlitzTerrain.

You are creating a HUGE amount of work for yourself that will only result in slow framerates and a poor representation of what you are trying to do.

Is this a school project or something?

If it is, this isn't the way to go about it.

Mugen Wizardry
User Banned
Posted: 10th Aug 2011 21:09
Yes, I've seen that. I was the one who modified it to work super fast.

The PROBLEM is, I can't save my terrain WITH the detail I have given it, as a 3DS. If I would like to use a 3DS in my game, then please allow me to do so.

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KISTech
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Posted: 10th Aug 2011 21:25 Edited at: 10th Aug 2011 21:27
Since you can't save the objects in any format other than DBO, I don't see how that's going to be possible.

Maybe it would help if I knew exactly why you were trying to do this. With more information maybe we can come up with a better solution to whatever the problem is.

[edit]
Sorry about the Write Integer, it should have been Write Long.

Mugen Wizardry
User Banned
Posted: 10th Aug 2011 21:32
Ok. I've recently bought L3DT Pro, and I'm going to be buying Blitz Terrains Pro next week. And I figured out a way to create high quality terrains. I would then like to sell my models on TurboSquid.

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Mugen Wizardry
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Posted: 10th Aug 2011 21:38
That's why

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KISTech
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Posted: 10th Aug 2011 21:43
You know from L3DT Pro you can export to 3DS with all the textures.
It's under File > Export.

I would read their End User License though and make sure you aren't violating any part of that by selling just terrains made with it.

Mugen Wizardry
User Banned
Posted: 10th Aug 2011 21:45
Well. The problem is, the quality is EXTREMLY poor on the model, after I export it, even WITH a high quality texture ><

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Mugen Wizardry
User Banned
Posted: 10th Aug 2011 21:51
"Can L3DT be used for commercial purposes?

This is covered in the terms and conditions of the L3DT EULA.

Unless stated otherwise in that document, the terms of the agreement permit the use of new works created using L3DT for commercial purposes without royalties or other restrictions. Copyright of said works are the property of their respective creators. However, copyright and all other intellectual property rights of and to the L3DT software and associated digital media is retained by Bundysoft. Thus, neither the whole nor any part of the L3DT software may be re-packaged, copied or re-distributed without my written authority."

^
|

License

http://www.bundysoft.com/docs/doku.php?id=l3dt:faq:licensing#can_l3dt_be_used_for_commercial_purposes

^
|

Source

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KISTech
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Posted: 10th Aug 2011 22:16
The trouble you'll run into with 3DS is it's size limitations. That's why the detail is low. I'm not sure if OBJ is going to be of much help either.

To join the parts into a single object, attach all the other objects to the first one as limbs.

Once you have that saved as a DBO, you'll have to find something that can load it, and save it to another format. The only program I've found that can load a DBO is FragMotion.

You're dealing with something here that has the potential to have millions of polys, so you will likely run into problems. FragMotion has it's limits, and whatever format you choose to save it to may also be limited in what it can handle.

There may be a way to save an object to .X from within DBPro, but I don't know what it is.

Mugen Wizardry
User Banned
Posted: 10th Aug 2011 23:15
its called "save mesh". it does X. the ONLY problem is it DOESNT save the bloody detail OR the textures...

If there is ANY way u can help me with this, I would be forever greatful

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KISTech
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Posted: 10th Aug 2011 23:22
Ok. So now you have the mesh, and you have your textures. Take it all into a modeling program and combine them into something you can export to a format you can sell.

Mugen Wizardry
User Banned
Posted: 10th Aug 2011 23:35
then whats the point of L3DT and DarkBasic Pro? I mean, I have NO IDEA how to model. My niche is in developing Heightmaps INTO models by means OTHER than a paint job, or a mesh cut.

HOWEVER. If you can give the name of a free mesh program that allows u to slap on the texture, and slap on the detail map, I would be VERY interested

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KISTech
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Posted: 11th Aug 2011 00:39 Edited at: 11th Aug 2011 00:46
Better yet, if you can texture it and make it look pretty in DBPro, that's all you need.

Take a screenshot to show the purchaser what they'll be able to do with it. In the package you give them, just include the bare mesh and the textures. It's up to them to use it in their game engine or 3D modeling program in whatever way they see fit.

Sounds to me like you've reached the goal you were after.

[edit]
By the way,

Caligari trueSpace
Blender

trueSpace is one of my favorites.

Mugen Wizardry
User Banned
Posted: 11th Aug 2011 02:20
thanks ALOT Kistech. Can I still charge the same amount for it as I would if I DID manage to get blitz terrains to save it? Or is that a bad marketing strategy?

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KISTech
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Posted: 11th Aug 2011 05:18
Take this entry for an example,

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/mountain-terrain-max/559953

He's packaged a bare mesh along with 4 different 4096x4096 textures for $15. I couldn't tell you what he's using, but it's probably something similar to what you're doing. He's just able to export to more formats. If you pick up a copy of MilkShape you should be able to convert your mesh to other formats if people seem to want them.

What you are packaging is (I'm assuming) a mesh, a texture and a normal map. If you generate textures that are 8192x8192 you'll get even more detail from them and you can probably get away with charging about the same amount.

You could also leave the terrain objects separated and have L3DT separate the textures into an 8x8 grid so you could have 64 textures and 64 normal maps along with your 64 meshes. If those were 1024x1024 textures that would be pretty highly detailed.

Mugen Wizardry
User Banned
Posted: 11th Aug 2011 14:22
Very well. I guess what I COULD do is make it so that I charge $25 for the Ok quality, then make 8192 textures, and charge $50. Does that seem like a good deal? I'm also going to be bundling them all into a pack as well!

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Mugen Wizardry
User Banned
Posted: 11th Aug 2011 18:24 Edited at: 11th Aug 2011 18:48
EDIT: Better yet. How can I give high quality to a terrain being loaded in as an X file, in darkbasic pro, WITHOUT making it blurry? Making it NOT blurry is my NUMBER ONE priority. I dont care HOW its done. I need to know. I tried ur 8192x8192 idea, and that crashed L3DT. SO I tried 2048x2048. That worked. But then because Blitz Terrain only likes 256x256, it's blurry as HELL. and I don't know how to load a detail map onto a mesh AS WELL as loading the texture map onto the mesh, and being able to save ALL of it. If I could do that, then this problem would be solved.

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Mobiius
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Posted: 11th Aug 2011 18:51
I wouldn't pay $50 for a terrain I could generate for free with various terrain packages. Perhaps lower the price a bit??

Also, have you seen T.Ed? It's a clicky draggy terrain editor which can generate heightmaps or object based terrains? It's also something you can look at using? I use T>Ed for all my terrains and I love the quality of it, especially when I use the heightmaps + supertextures with BlitzTerrain in my games.

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baxslash
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Posted: 11th Aug 2011 18:58
Quote: "I wouldn't pay $50 for a terrain I could generate for free with various terrain packages. Perhaps lower the price a bit??"

Hmmm, especially when BT is only £25 anyway... I guess MW is aiming this at people with fairly rubbish modelling skills who don't know much about creating their own terrains like Architects (for example). No offense Architects, some of you know what you're doing but in my not so limited experience most of you don't as you are concentrating on more 'important' matters than the geeky techy stuff. I did do a degree in Architectural Technology and was Senior Architectural Technician for a large firm for a while so I do know what I'm talking about

T.Ed is great. I used it a bit and will do again when I next do a project that needs terrains...

Mobiius
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Posted: 11th Aug 2011 19:00
I love T.Ed. Very good value for money! (Plus comes with the source code to load a terrain, and place static objects on it correctly too! lol)

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Mugen Wizardry
User Banned
Posted: 11th Aug 2011 19:18 Edited at: 11th Aug 2011 19:19
Now, will T.E.D. allow me to import my OWN heightmap, read it CORRECTLY, import my textures, slap them on correctly, and import my detail map and slap IT on correctly?

If so, then SOLD!

Also, would u be willing to pay $200 for a pack of 20 terrains with 20 high quality textures, and normal maps?

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KISTech
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Posted: 11th Aug 2011 20:01
Quote: "Also, would u be willing to pay $200 for a pack of 20 terrains with 20 high quality textures, and normal maps?"


Nope.

This is not something you're going to make a lot of money at.

Like baxslash said, the only people I can imagine buying this are architects that don't have the time to spend worrying about such things, and those are going to be few and far between because of programs like T.Ed and L3DT. Why pay you for something they can do themselves and make it custom to what they need for their project?

Continue on if you like, but I have to get back to my own work and try to make some money.

Best of luck with it.

Mugen Wizardry
User Banned
Posted: 11th Aug 2011 20:20
my ASS im not gonna make alot of money. im gonna build terrains by the 100s, and sell them in packs.

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Mugen Wizardry
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Posted: 11th Aug 2011 20:42
im not gonna let u nerds who think u know it ALL about business ruin my financial life. I WILL prevail.

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KISTech
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Posted: 11th Aug 2011 21:04
Don't take it personally, we're actually just trying to help.

If making money was that easy, everyone would be rich.

You need to develop some skills though. The things that I've been trying to help you with are fairly simple DBPro concepts that at least from what I can tell are beyond your current experience level.

You need to learn about shaders, blend mapping, and texturing, and not just rely on other programs to do the heavy lifting for you.

Making money in any field requires patience, and skill. You need to work on developing both.

Mugen Wizardry
User Banned
Posted: 11th Aug 2011 21:12
haha. idc. i WILL prevail. and NOTHING NO ONE can say or do will stop me.

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Mobiius
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Posted: 11th Aug 2011 21:30
Quote: " will T.E.D. allow me to import my OWN heightmap, read it CORRECTLY, import my textures, slap them on correctly, and import my detail map and slap IT on correctly?"

Yes.

Quote: "im not gonna let u nerds who think u know it ALL about business ruin my financial life."

That was uncalled for and will impact my willingness to help in the future.

Quote: "i WILL prevail. and NOTHING NO ONE can say or do will stop me. "

That's the attitude to have! (Even though you're aiming slightly in the wrong direction.)

My signature is NOT a moderator plaything! Stop changing it!
Mugen Wizardry
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Posted: 11th Aug 2011 21:33
hey, im sorry. i get upset when ppl tell me im going to fail. because i will NOT fail.

how am i aiming in slightly the wrong direction? (explain this please)

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Mobiius
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Posted: 12th Aug 2011 10:30
In my opinion, rather than focus on selling pre made terrains, focus on creating a tool to create these terrains. No-one wants to pay that kind of money for terrains they can make for free, but they would pay for the ability to create their own terrains.

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baxslash
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Posted: 12th Aug 2011 10:36
Quote: "im not gonna let u nerds who think u know it ALL about business ruin my financial life. I WILL prevail."

...and after that I officially am not helping you ever again.

I have:
1-Given you good advice on many occasions
2-Warned you about double / triple / quadruple posting on many occasions
3-Given you chance after chance to be nice to me on many occasions

After being warned on many occasions and slapped you still talk to respected forum members that way. I don't think I know it all, but what I DO know about I give advice on. What I don't know I TAKE advice on.

You need to learn more about the latter.

Believe it or not I actually want people here to succeed! That's why I have spent the last six months building an App Developers Group that now has over twenty members and over twenty published games and apps. I do that in my spare time and make zero profit from it. I actually enjoy the feeling I get from helping people.

You are one of the very few people I don't enjoy helping, why? Because you rarely say thank you and get annoyed when good advice does not fit in with your plans. I may be a nerd but I am not out to get you, you do fine ruining your own plans yourself.
[/flame]

If I get slapped for a flame of this nature then I'll actually enjoy it I could do with the time off...

Mugen Wizardry
User Banned
Posted: 12th Aug 2011 14:40
Yea. I'M the selfish one. At least you're getting paid. I only get 50 bucks every 2 weeks, and work a 4 hour part time job. I have aspergers syndrome. You are sorry piece of work. YOU try living the life I live, and maybe you'll see who's more selfish. You little twit. How DARE you. Mods, lock this before I completely let him have it.

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baxslash
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Posted: 12th Aug 2011 14:55
Quote: "I only get 50 bucks every 2 weeks, and work a 4 hour part time job."

Been there.

Quote: "I have aspergers syndrome."

So does my nephew and he works full time.

Quote: "YOU try living the life I live, and maybe you'll see who's more selfish."

Did I say you were selfish?

Quote: "You little twit. How DARE you. Mods, lock this before I completely let him have it."

Please keep digging...

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