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Geek Culture / On the Road to Game Development?

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MikeS
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Posted: 31st Oct 2003 23:24
Just out of curiousity, I wonder how many people (particularly aimed at people of my age and in there teens), plan on pursuing a career in the games industry? I mean, purchasing darkbasic/pro is already your first taste inside(If not the full byte for some of our users ) Many of us have already become successful, though how many plan to fall back full-time on just making games?

I think it'd be kind of interesting to find out how many people are serious/hobbiest/or just making games for the heck of it.

Personally, I plan on pursuing a game development career, if not something in general computer programming/networking/hardware/etc.

How about you, or are you already living the dream in professional(by your standards) game development?

A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
Preston C
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Posted: 31st Oct 2003 23:34
I'm pursuing a full software developing career. Not just games, but applications and what not. Now I just need to get good with C++ and maybe Delphi and Visual Basic.


Intel Celeron 1.3 Ghrz 512MB Ram NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 128MB
CattleRustler
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Posted: 31st Oct 2003 23:57
I get paid to write VB6/VB.NET programs, game programming I would consider myself a serious-hobbyist. If I strike gold then so be it. I should get off my ass with the stupid retro-remakes and start using my god-given creative skills and come up with an awesome, original game. The wheels are turning (and have been) and I have a few really good ideas for games but I don't have the dbp skills down yet. If I were going to start a serious drive to make a full blown game I don't think I would want to be the lead coder - more of a game designer/team leader type, with some side coding.

oh well, that was way too much info anyway, sorry.

-RUST-
TKF15H
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Posted: 1st Nov 2003 00:21
It's very hard to earn a living with game development, let alone striking it rich. I plan to program things in general, including games. Games are a hobby to me, but I'm very dedicated to it. My mom's allready worried about my eyesight because of too much computer use.

Morfy's Law - Enythink thet ken go rong willll.
Cole's Law - Thinly sliced cabbage.
Renegade
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Posted: 1st Nov 2003 00:29
hmmmmmmmm Interesting question
I love to program but I dont really have patience for it
(I can barely program a forum but there is a small diffrents between scripts programing and games programing) I want people to program for me
I want to be in the future something in the games industry but I'm
not sure if it will be a programming thing and of course here in Israel the games industry is not very developed.
I also want to have a small company that will create a free games
just for fun
Mattman
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Posted: 1st Nov 2003 00:33
me

I plan to be a full-time programmer, apps and games. probably apps mainly, and games as a hobby. I wanan do games more though.

Got a knack for finding secrets??? Jingot Racing---A new brand of Racing---Only from Nightwatch Studios
"hey, it's tomorrow" - Hamish
the_winch
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Posted: 1st Nov 2003 02:36
I think if I did programming for a job I would go insane.
It's ok as a hobby when I can stop when I don't enjoy it and abandon 99% of projects I start. Full time doing what someone else wanted would be too much.
CattleRustler
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Posted: 1st Nov 2003 08:13
the_winch

I hear you and I agree. I was coding 24/7 non-stop "for the man" and for a bit there, early on, I wanted to kill myself. Luckily the situation I was in changed and I was able to start coding for the QA Dept at my work. That was awesome! These guys are insane in how they think and every day was a new little util or app that they needed me to write - the best part is when I encorporated vb.net into my arsenal. they were like "It would be cool if we could do this and do that" and i was all like "holy sh*t-we can easily do that!" instead of 3000 api calls - blam! A class right there! When I found WMI Objects one day, on line, by accident, the QA dept went nutty!



-RUST-
Jess T
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Posted: 1st Nov 2003 08:55
Im only 16 atm, but i hope to persue a career in Programming...

I don't really know any languages other than DBC/DBPro, so im kind of a hobbiest atm, but i hope to develope my skills once i finish school this time next year.

I just love to sit down and solve problems and make things happen. And i always love to see a result from about half an hours programming, even if it only shows a funny effect on the screen, as long as it does what i wanted it to (or better) then I'm always happy. And if it doesn't do what i wanted it to, then i sit down, and work out all the bugs and do that over and over untill i get it just right, then i show al my mates and get a huge Ego trip... lol...


Team EOD :: Programmer/Logical Engineer/All-Round Nice Guy
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st Nov 2003 11:02
My advice if you want to get into games development, programming or otherwise ... is you need to have quite a few qualities that I doubt most here either have or will want to have.

Firstly, you need to REALLY love computer games. I don't mean you need to love playing them and just having fun hacking them or whatever. You have to essentially learn to live, breath and sleep computer games.
It is one thing to goto sleep thinking "oh, i wish i could kill that boss with such-n-such move" ... but a developer will goto sleep thinking, "I wonder how many polygons were in that bosses attack, I bet it used some billboard particles with a speculared alpha map to make it glow like that."

If you think that getting into the industry will mean you have more access to alot more computer games, unless you make the friends in the right places ... the only games you'll see are those your team is creating. And you can near as forget about online/offline playing, cause with your scheduals as a Jnr there isn't a chance in hell you'll have the time.

You have to be determined and resourceful. Determination is a wonderful thing, but without understanding how stuff works and willing to figure out on your own a way around an obsticle all you will ever be used for is doing an exact job when your needed to. In otherwords the only companies you will appeal to are those who churn out the exact same crap with a little different finish, nothing ever nice, nothing ever spectacular.
No one likes a grunt worker, you have to be creative ... you want to be given exact instructions on howto achieve something become a database inputter. Programming and Art is all about creating a creative and stable solution to a problem.

Just as importantly is your ability to interact with people, if you want to be a solo programmer - shareware is what you want to be doing. Creating work as a hobby not a life skill. Development Teams must work very closely together and be able to convey ideas and help each other out ... anyone who makes working slow or awekard are those people who very quickly get made to feel like they're not welcome. You cannot have a weak link especially with a publisher breathing down your neck about quality and time limits.

You have to be willing to put in the time as well, to most developers this usually isn't even a consideration ... if you fall asleep developing and wake up just wondering howto get this section of the software done. When what you care about more is making something good rather than getting paid hundreds of dollars for the time you put in. Then that is the mark of a true developer.

And if your have dollar/pound signs in your eyes when you think about games development, then you need to get a job in PR/Marketing for a publishing company. You'd have alot more access to games and you'll be paid far better...
As a Jnr in any company your pay with be pretty much equal to your mate who works down in Electronics Boutiqué.

Actualy talent is only a fraction of what games development is all about, this is why you'll be passed over for someone with less talent but more experience.
Because in this industry EXPERIENCE is primary... you have got to know your onions, because you can't have a person who doesn't understand what to do slowing down development.
You have got to understand to directly communicate between the Programming and Art areas, learn thier terminology, get basic if not better understanding of everything you'll need to.
Idea's can't just be ideas, you MUST know howto back them up ... just being able to say.

"Well I think all of the Skins on this player should be 1024x1024x32 ... and have several layers to add detail thats blended, say 6! That way I can make a very nice built up snow and mud effect."

yeah thats all well and good einstein, only problem is... if you don't know how it can be roughly achieved with your limited resources (ie minimum system specs) within the engine then it just won't be added. you gotta have a better reason for something than 'i'll look cool'.

understanding what you could shift, say the world textures could have a lighter load - perhaps go for a more basic level structures and fewer mipmap levels ... free up some of the vram giving you the resources you need.

... ... ...

DarkBASIC Pro is a good start on the step to becomming a programmer, as it exposes you to the fundimentals. But you want to actually grow and make yourself worth squat you need to gain a good working understanding of engines and be able to work with people.
And you have to stick with something...
Just because it seems like your not getting anywhere doesn't mean you have to ask within for forums for help, it means you've got to be more creative. Think outside of the box!


To Survive You Must Evolve... This Time Van Will Not Escape His Fate!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st Nov 2003 11:10
some immortal words...

programmers do not ask if something is possible, they make it possible!


To Survive You Must Evolve... This Time Van Will Not Escape His Fate!
Jess T
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Posted: 1st Nov 2003 12:13
Whoa Raven, that was Deep...


Team EOD :: Programmer/Logical Engineer/All-Round Nice Guy
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 1st Nov 2003 14:55
I'm am proud of myself.
For the first time here...I have read one of Raven's speeches.
(Pretty good too)
Any way about the whole game developing thing..um..I'll tell u guys later. I got some thinking to do.

My site is delyaed for the 250th time!
If life is just one big joke...
then I must have missed the punchline.
Mattman
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Posted: 1st Nov 2003 16:52
I actually was able to read a whole paragraph before I fell asleep this time

Got a knack for finding secrets??? Jingot Racing---A new brand of Racing---Only from Nightwatch Studios
"hey, it's tomorrow" - Hamish
empty
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Posted: 1st Nov 2003 17:26 Edited at: 1st Nov 2003 17:27
Many ways lead to rome. A little story about the beginning of the Gothic series http://www.gothic2.com.
In the early 90's two guys started programming a 3D engine in turbo pascal, inspired by the ultima underworld series. A few years later they sent a demo of their work to several companies and one of them was very interested in the engine and the guys who programmed it (Greenwood, now Phenomedia). They created a new company called Piranha Bytes and it's only purpose was to develop an action RPG, later to be known as Gothic. They hired more people- programmers, artists, story/script-writers- and started "porting" (actually re-writing) the whole thing to Windows/DirectX. It took another couple of years until the game was released.

I awoke in a fever. The bedclothes were all soaked in sweat.
She said "You've been having a nightmare and it's not over yet"
Killswitch
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Posted: 1st Nov 2003 17:50
I'd really like to get into storylining/reviewing games, I have no clue how to though but hey I'm looking into it now so I should find something within the 8 years I have till the end of uni!

~I see one problem with your reasoning: The fact is that is a chicken~
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 1st Nov 2003 19:24
I did the whole thing in reverse! LOL!

Commercial Games artist then DB!

Pincho.
HZence
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2003 02:09
The first language I ever learned Was "Learn to Program BASIC (LTPB)" by Interplay. I moved on to VB6, and it took considerably longer to learn and figure out. I then learned a little bit of DarkBASIC, and now have mastered 2D aspects of DBPro. I'm also learning C++ currently. Also, I've found a college that I want go to in Rhode Island (Johnson & Wales) that teachs a lot of media and programming courses. I plan on getting my associates in programming or possibly bachelours in information technologies...nah come to think of it it'll most likely be programming because that's what I like best

And Raven, I know I'm only an "amateur", but let's face it, your assuming a lot of things about amateurs. I know the game industry is not an easy think to enter or handle, but I have a feeling I'll enjoy it.

Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
MikeS
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2003 02:50
Raven, by any chance have you read "Break into the Game Industry" by Ernest Adams? I just finished chapter 7, and if anyone else was inspired by his words, or is taking game development seriously, you should read this book. Talks about how to get jobs, how to write resume, overviews on each position, very important information on game testing(recommended that you just buy book for this almost), and much much more.

I've finally started to buckle down and program my b**t off. I feel now is a time to truly get myself into serious gear on game dev.(Besides, with this being the time of year where great games come)

Personally, my plan is too run a business,(If your interested in reading the book I read check out "Secrets of The Game Business" from the game development sereies.) but first I'll have to take many steps. Like building a portfolio, proving I can be a leader, proving I can get things done, get into as many fields as possible(3D modeling,2D artist,sound,music,programming, etc.*Very important to be experienced in many fields.), and finally making sure this is something I want to follow.(Which, I'm almost set on now.)



Note: Just visited Ohio State University Campus today.(Incase you're wondering why I havn't replied. ) Checked out Computer Science, but didn't have a chance to see if they had anything "game" specific.(Of course, CIS is pretty darn close to the types of things I like.)



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
Preston C
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2003 03:58
Quote: "I've finally started to buckle down and program my b**t off. I feel now is a time to truly get myself into serious gear on game dev.(Besides, with this being the time of year where great games come)
"


I've actually been coding something with Inkybro all day, not to mention I've been seeing an increase in my own work output as well (decoy in 2 weeks, wow)

Wonder what I can complete now...


Intel Celeron 1.3 Ghrz 512MB Ram NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 128MB
MicroMan
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2003 04:26
I think for me, game programming will always be a hobby. I'm not good enough with DBP yet to really put an effort into making a serious game-project. Perhaps that will change late.

I do have a creative job already, so my creative side gets fed daily. My coding ambitions are probably more fulfilled with application creation, and that's perhaps a realistic area to make enough money for it to be "worthwile". If you make some apps that people want to buy, then perhaps that can finance the computers and stuff you need for the game creation hobby.

-----
They SAID that given enough time a million monkeys with typewriters could recreate the collected works of William Shakespeare... Internet sure proved them wrong.
-----
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2003 12:25
nope i generally don't read books from the other guys in the industry unless i happen to get it turn up on my desk for free ... only reason i ended up reading pauls latest modelling book.

my info comes from experience, not just mind but alot of guys and gals that i talk to and are good friends with.
not trying to treat anyone like amatures in what i said, it's just if you actually want to enjoy the work then really you've gotta be one of those people that actually enjoy this work and will do it fulltime paid or not.

like most jobs really i suppose, however the hours are truely brutal. It's not so much the fact your working so long (i remember some good 60-70hr weeks tha continued even once i finally got home), it's more the fact of how long the hours are.
Sure your not sitting there doing extreme manual labour all week without a break, but oftenly you'll forget to have breaks and be working 12hr straight without even realising it ... its when you finally get your break you realise just how tired you are.

I mean with companies being bigger now and more funds being diverted as well as slightly better schedualing as publishers are getting better at figuring out how long it'll take to achieve things and being more forgiving with release dates. Well it is alot easier now.
However what is now gone in terms of pure staminia is still there as now developers require you to put more effort in and create far better work within the time you actually have.

Not to be funny although I know a good few here may have the potencial to go on to do such work, it is hardly a walk in the park as well as all fun and games that seems to be expected.

As I said, checkout the polycount boards as myself and others have written quite extensive FAQs on the industry from our own persona POV and although there are different experiences it all echo's similar things. Some questions are answered directly and some indirectly...

Like most jobs really, you need love and dedication for it to do it professionally rather than freelance. Because the hours are bad, the pay is bad and you don't get to choose what jobs you work on.
(trust me if we did I'd swap my next 2months of work with someone else!)


To Survive You Must Evolve... This Time Van Will Not Escape His Fate!
Kevin Picone
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2003 15:09
If you want to program as a career, be prepared to go to college/uni (depending upon you come from) and get your degree. Be warned though, the computer science degrees are not primarily about computers, as there's a heavy math / physics studies requirement. Obviously, if you aiming at being a 3D programmer (engine/physics development) employers will expect your math/physics knowledge to be strong.

In terms of building resume/previous experience. You'll need to be a 'finisher', one bad but complete work, speaks a lot more than a dozen techs.

Kevin Picone
Play Basic - Visible Worlds - Kyruss II
[url]www.underwaredesign.com[/url]
HZence
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 00:00
Thanks guys, I'm well aware. By the end of my senior year of high school I'll have completed Trigonometry and Precalculus, as well as Honour's Physics. Johnson & Wales allows you to choose what kind of science class you want to take...obviously I'll choose physics

And trust me, I know about the long hours, etc...but that's part of the fun of being a programmer. Obviously that's not fun to all, but like I said before, I've wasted quite a few hours at a time programming without even realizing it. I don't mind working over time; in fact, I'll probably do it often if that's what it takes to get the job done.

I just can't wait

Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
MikeS
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 00:10
Yea, same here. I've spent about 4-5 hours today of solid programming. Didn't even realize it. Also did 2-3 hours of 3D modeling. It's amazing to see the results. I'm almost tempted to show off a little in the W.I.P boards, but I think I'll hold back.

Right now, I've just gotta focus on pacing myself, for the school days really kill off my progress.

Ah well, back to work.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
spooky
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 00:13
Good luck! Here in the UK, I did 'A' level Physics, Maths & Statistics. Talk about messing up your head for a couple of years!

Trouble is, 15 years later when I have a good reason to use all those complicated equations, I've forgotten them, but luckily there are loads of websites to refresh my memory.

Boo!
Critters
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 00:32
arg, im 15 and i would like to make games as a job. But i think ill be more on the art side of games, programming makes my head hurt

lol

- My online portfolio/under construction
- The Media Base/under construction
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Yian
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 00:41 Edited at: 3rd Nov 2003 00:43
I'm not sure what job I'll follow but I waste at least 2 hours a day in coding, and half of the rest in dreaming about coding ...basically I just plunge on and who cares...
[edit] once did extreme manual labour 13 hours a day for 2 weeks! You know what I got paid?A miserable 200 British pounds!So on second thoughts if I end up being manual labour I might become a psycho/serial killer and kill my own boss

Jeriko The Slyz,Yian The Craft,The Mechanist,The Lost One,Master Of Dots,Bambos O Bellos,Zolos O Kolos
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 02:00
Personally I'd wager only 1:10 people here who want and go to get into game development will ever do it as a carrer.
Not because of just getting into it to start with, but because of how it is... just takes a certain kind of person to do this fulltime and do it seriously.

It probably seems like i'm trying to put alot of you off and quite frankly, I am. Personally i'm sick of seeing 12minute yahoo's comming into somewhere with thier fancy degree's not understanding bugger all and being selected over people with real promise just because they look good on paper ... only to quit a few weeks later when they realise what they thought development would be like would be a fantastic walk in the park.

I know for a fact there are other fulltime developers on this board, and it would be a bloody good idea if they actually bothered to take the time to tell thier side of what they feel it is like and such.

There is nothing worse than someone who doesn't know jack about development, they rely on pure talent or pure schooling.
If you are not talented now, a diploma will teach your general tips ... it won't make you good.
Just like talent is greant, but without it being actually developed upon it is good to noman.


To Survive You Must Evolve... This Time Van Will Not Escape His Fate!
MikeS
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 02:38
I'll take it by experience. Personally, I've read enough letters,articles,and books about the truth of game development.

Yea, I expect it's not gonna be the greatest thing in the world, and who knows, maybe I will be a 3D modeler/marketer/or some other field.

Right now, Dark Basic Pro is a good start for me. Slowly moving up to more advacnced things, but that takes time. Whether or not I go into game dev. as a professional career, I still have time to decide. I guareentee though, that I'll always play games, and if nothing, produce my own as a hobby.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
HZence
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 04:09
Raven, trust me, the primary reason I want a degree is because that's what companies look for. And I'm not going to get out of college assuming I know everything, that's utter BS (althought I'm sure there are some who think they know a lot).

Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
CattleRustler
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 04:33
there are plenty here who DO know alot - but no one knows everything

-RUST-
HZence
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 04:59
we're talking about kids fresh out of college

Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 04:59
I'm 17, a high shcool senior, and I plan on entering colleges to major in games development/games design. The biggest problem for me is what aspect of games design I want to pursue. I'm the jack of all trades, master of none. I do music, level design, character modeling, texturing, engine programming, audio fx engineering, story writing, object modeling, animation (improving on), but I have yet to focus on any one thing. I just love it all though, and I try to do everything at once, which leads to my own downfall.

I currently have a game in development, with one of the best storylines ever written (yes, I know how you're responding to that), but I'm layering the work on myself, and I have far too much to do with everything.

So yes, I plan on entering the games workforce. And there are hundreds of shcools out there that will put you in entry level games positions at graduation.

Game creation is possibly the best artistic medium ever known to man.

HZence
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 05:10 Edited at: 3rd Nov 2003 05:11
Quoth, look at it this way: everyone's written the best storyline ever.

...if you catch my drift...

Unforunately game development isn't recognized as an official artform yet. It won't be long though.

Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 11:00
There is no 'best' in stories or games, you can generalise ... but never make an ultimate thing.
A game will rely on the fact of the public liking that form of title prior to development so stories are always considered secondary. Even now bringing in the big names, there are very few titles that can honestly stand up and saw "I have a great storyline", storyline is just there to make sure that the game really makes sense whilst you play, and to justify going through 50 levels slightly different doing the exact same take but trying to keep it interesting.

Quote: "there are plenty here who DO know alot - but no one knows everything"

but you'll find here we have people who've been around computers most of thier lives... most of which are far far older than people who are just getting into the industry and are alot more life experienced than some 20-somthing kid with a degree in computing.

When these kids come into the studios after uni they believe they know it all, they believe that thier lessons have prepaired them for exactly what working within the industry will be like.

And they come to realise they don't know jack.
And although I'd agree alot of people know alot of things here, I guarentee you almost NONE know the RIGHT things they need to know for games development.

Sure you can know the technical polygon output of an ATI Radeon 9800XT and know its higher than a GeForceFX 5950 Ultra ... but do you have any clue what that actually means in terms of your game enigne?
Would you know howto use a node-tree to strip visible polygons from a model in order to keep the onscreen count down to as little as possible without spending too much speed on the optimisation.

Knowing your card is capable of pushing 1,500,000 polygons per scene at 300fps is a fantastic thing to know. But did you know that if you capped the FPS to 60 you could achieve 5x the polygon count without a speed loss.

Do you know that you can use a normal mapper routine with a prerendered normal map on a 2,000 polygon model and to the engine it will appear to be a 55,000 polygon model that it was based upon?

Do you know if sprites or alpha'd planes are quicker for doing screen effects?
I can bet you almost everyone here would ask the same questions about games development, knowing the development platform is only the first step in understanding howto develop a game.
You must also understand what those capabilities mean and how you can make the most out of them.


To Survive You Must Evolve... This Time Van Will Not Escape His Fate!
las6
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 11:52
despite all the stuff I've read about game dev, I'd sorta like to get in. Not as a coder, though. perhaps 2d artist, if I'd only have skills enough for that.

have to congratulate you Raven, your posts have some point here.

But,
Quote: "Do you know if sprites or alpha'd planes are quicker for doing screen effects?"

In DX, those are the same thing. or well, sprites are plains locked to the screen. and I presume that's what you meant with the "alpha'd planes".

and those questions. They are actually not that hard at all. just spending a little time with games and game devving on your own, you'll learn all that. Plus all those are logical, so it's easy to figure things out just like that...

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 12:30
Only the majority of PC games use DirectX, and only DirectX 8.1 and above uses the 3D Sprite Planes. However they still work on a 2D level to quite a large degree.

And DirectX's 2D features still allow you to edit the buffers and screen with 2D directly.
The questions i've put might seem simple, and i could probably think of some far more complex questions ... but could you possible explain a way to achieve them within DBP?
I know for a fact that almost no-one here can, out of the 4,000 odd users on this forum I can only think of about 3 which are capable of achieve even these basic tasks. With time perhaps another 5 or 6.

But that's around what, .1% of this entire forum. Not very encouraging when you think that less than 1% of the entire forum would be able to do such things without help, or hell even realise that these were things they needed to worry about.


To Survive You Must Evolve... This Time Van Will Not Escape His Fate!
Mattman
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 15:31
well, everyone does create ' the best storyline'. prob is, it exceeds their programming limits and cannot be used to the max (I know this from exp.)

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Van B
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Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 16:27
I can't shut down, that's my problem - I code all day, making user friendly databases for the turnips I work beside, then I have to come home and have fun with DB. It's the only way to counter-act the boredom that goes with 99% of IT jobs, programming professionally is not fun, it's hard work and there's a lot of stressful deadlines that 'managers' instigate (not that I pay much attention to all that nonsense). I doubt it's any different for games programmers, a whole lot worse more like!.

I like being in control, I like deciding for myself how things should work. I'm the kind of coder who thinks about stuff all the time, ways to do effects, ways the pro's do effects, ways to make models etc etc. I think about this stuff most of the time. I'll give you an example, my son just got those Sea Monkey tanks, it's like a little fish tank with prawn looking things on it - I was watching these little guys for half an hour, and they did'nt stop once - constantly moving all the time. So I decided that this would be a good way to handle fish - In my game I have 6 fish now, and they move like sea monkeys, constantly turning, constantly trying to move forward, building up speed then slowing down to avoid collisions and turning and darting away again. No AI at all, just a collision check and an some random numbers. You would not believe how lifelike these little fishies are now, all in the space of about 30 minutes coding, the fish model took about 4 hours to complete!. It's little touches like that which keep it interesting, if my project goes stale, I add something fun, once you get a cool little feature working you feel so much better about your work and you get back into it.

I've been hobbyist coding for too long now, I won't stop if I never make a penny from it, I like to startle people, surprise them with the creative and intelligent person they did'nt think you were. There's more important things than money.

The thing everyone has to consider though, 95% of games suck, do you guys really want to be responsible for some of the crud out there? - I reckon working on and finishing a big project is the best way to get noticed, rather than going to college and comming out with a degree or two, but no solid portfolio. It's fairly believable that studying at university is a good way to get started, but a good portfolio would get that foot much further in the door - get both and there's every chance that you'll get taken on by a decent development house.


Van-B


I bet you've never even been to mars.
Complex
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 20:25
Well, if anyone was sitting on the fence about taking up a programming career, I know which side the've fallen on to.

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Inkybro
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 20:31
I love programming, but I'm a little procrastinateable (lol, right word?) when it comes to anything that's a big project. If I'm in a team, and they're relying on me, then I can finish something.. that's why I rely on teams and not myself, I'd never finish anything.

I do plan on going into Programming (Apps/Games/etc) like NWC_Omega, but everytime I go for learning a language I eventually give up on it because I get stuck, and it's hard to get out of that certain situation.

While I'm on the subject, any tips on staying "on-project" would be nice.

Grim_Reaper
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 23:13
I know this probably isn't entirely relavent but I plan on persuing a career in music composition for games or film(or both!)...I'm one of those people who wouldn't be able to stand a normal deskjob or anything like that. To me its music or nothing, nothing else is acceptable to me as a career(sep maybe film directing ). If I were to get a deskjob or something, I would only see it as a temporary way to support myself until I break into the entertainment industry.

The only advice I can give to anyone with high-hopes such as myself, is to never give up. Also, learn to deal with rejection, because its going to happen a LOT when you are making your first moves to break into the industry. Dont think of it as the end of the world the first time you get rejected! This applies to anyone who hopes to land a career in any part of the entertainment industry.

So just keep trying no matter what, because a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity can strike at the drop of a hat and you need to be prepared for it when it does.




Aaron

http://www.corewaveaudio.co.nr
HZence
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 23:18
Quote: "There is no 'best' in stories or games, you can generalise ... but never make an ultimate thing.
A game will rely on the fact of the public liking that form of title prior to development so stories are always considered secondary. Even now bringing in the big names, there are very few titles that can honestly stand up and saw "I have a great storyline", storyline is just there to make sure that the game really makes sense whilst you play, and to justify going through 50 levels slightly different doing the exact same take but trying to keep it interesting.


Quote: "there are plenty here who DO know alot - but no one knows everything"
but you'll find here we have people who've been around computers most of thier lives... most of which are far far older than people who are just getting into the industry and are alot more life experienced than some 20-somthing kid with a degree in computing.

When these kids come into the studios after uni they believe they know it all, they believe that thier lessons have prepaired them for exactly what working within the industry will be like.

And they come to realise they don't know jack.
And although I'd agree alot of people know alot of things here, I guarentee you almost NONE know the RIGHT things they need to know for games development.

Sure you can know the technical polygon output of an ATI Radeon 9800XT and know its higher than a GeForceFX 5950 Ultra ... but do you have any clue what that actually means in terms of your game enigne?
Would you know howto use a node-tree to strip visible polygons from a model in order to keep the onscreen count down to as little as possible without spending too much speed on the optimisation.

Knowing your card is capable of pushing 1,500,000 polygons per scene at 300fps is a fantastic thing to know. But did you know that if you capped the FPS to 60 you could achieve 5x the polygon count without a speed loss.

Do you know that you can use a normal mapper routine with a prerendered normal map on a 2,000 polygon model and to the engine it will appear to be a 55,000 polygon model that it was based upon?

Do you know if sprites or alpha'd planes are quicker for doing screen effects?
I can bet you almost everyone here would ask the same questions about games development, knowing the development platform is only the first step in understanding howto develop a game.
You must also understand what those capabilities mean and how you can make the most out of them."


Pure opinion, based, by the way, on assumption. As for me, well, I believe there is no need to turn this innocent thread into a brawl.

Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
AlecM
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 23:18
"It's very hard to earn a living with game development, let alone striking it rich. I plan to program things in general, including games. Games are a hobby to me, but I'm very dedicated to it. My mom's allready worried about my eyesight because of too much computer use."

Not true at all. Its hard to do it from your basement but if you've got skill you can just go get a job. Not hard at all i guess it depends where you live. but if you live in california, texas, or the boston area there are plenty of jobs. And theres a resonable amount of development in canada too. The UK has plenty also. Just looking around I see ALOT of companies hiring artist right now. Its a good time

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 23:24
I'm not sure that computers actually effect your eyesight. I have been sat in front of a computer for 15 plus hours at a time, or an average of 50 hours a week, for 20 years, and I still have perfect vision. Plus, when I worked as a graphic artist, I had to draw some images pixel by pixel. When I'm not on my computer I am watching films on TV. The only problem I have is with my eyes being very sensitive to sunlight.

Pincho.
Grim_Reaper
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Posted: 4th Nov 2003 00:03
Quote: "The only problem I have is with my eyes being very sensitive to sunlight."



when I look at the sun I sneeze for some reason...lol

http://www.corewaveaudio.co.nr
QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 4th Nov 2003 00:21
There's no direct link between computer use and eyesight.

Although I do in fact have 20/2000 vision. My glasses give people severe dain bramage.

I also do music for games, but I'm inexperienced in audo engineering and all of the technical aspects involved, because that's an entire world in itself. I just don't want to be a dilbert who codes all day, I have to have the art involved, no matter how pretty that algorithm looks at 2 am.

Grim_Reaper
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Posted: 4th Nov 2003 00:32
Quote: "I also do music for games, but I'm inexperienced in audo engineering and all of the technical aspects involved, because that's an entire world in itself."


Yea I know what you mean. Audio engineering is a lot harder to learn on your own then actual music theory, which is why I'm going to be attending Audio Engineering college rather then a Music college in about a year.

http://www.corewaveaudio.co.nr
empty
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Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 4th Nov 2003 00:41
Yeah, audio engineering offers a lot more perspectives. Also sound guys are well paid (unless they decide to run their own studio...)

Me, I'll sit and write this love song as I all too seldom do
build a little fire this midnight. It's good to be back home with you.

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