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Geek Culture / On Ultraviolence in Games, and the Lessons of Porn

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 00:22
At least not in a significant way. It's easy to say "I know how to improve it!" and in theory it's an improvement. But in practice no one cares. That's what I'm referring to.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 00:24 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 00:25
Quote: "At least not in a significant way. It's easy to say "I know how to improve it!" and in theory it's an improvement. But in practice no one cares. That's what I'm referring to."


OK Are you sure you didn't write that Clockwork link?

Aaron Miller
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 00:35
For no particular reason, this thread reminds me of this:




Is there anyone else who doesn't understand what I'm saying? How should I go about improving how I wrote that to better communicate what I'm trying to say? It makes sense to me, but I'm not trying to communicate with myself. (I'm not being sarcastic.)

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 00:50
Quote: "Is there anyone else who doesn't understand what I'm saying?"


I understand what you're saying. But what you are saying is that AI robot fighting isn't an original idea, and isn't a significant improvement in games, and in practice no one cares.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 01:26
AI fighting? I can do that in Scribblenauts. It can be fun, I put Cthulhu against Hydra. Or Cthulhu vs Rick Astley, but Cthulhu always wins, but I gotta hand it to him, he never gave Cthulhu up. Sure it might not be as complicated or sophisticated as it can be, but gameplay based around AI fighting exists. Here's Robosaur vs T-Rex.

I don't know about 'significant improvement', it depends whether or not I enjoy the game and how much I enjoy the game. I think people will only care if it significantly improves the game for them. It's all down to personal taste, it's hard to decide whether or something will objectively be better. Sure originality is good, but originality needs to be appealing too. Robot AI's fighting, it sounds kind of interesting, I might play it, if it's got a really strong AI, it would interest me on a technological level, as I am a geek, but interesting me as a gamer? I don't think personally I'd be extremely excited by the idea, but depending on how it was designed I might think it's cool. It would be something different from most games, so it might catch some people's eyes, or heck, possibly be successful as a project, but I don't think I'd be able to tell just from the concept, "AI Robot Fighting".

Aaron Miller
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 02:05
Quote: "But what you are saying is that AI robot fighting isn't an original idea, and isn't a significant improvement in games, and in practice no one cares."

Oh, I see. I'm sorry, I didn't mean that your idea wasn't significant. I'm talking about actual game play improvements. (I don't view AI as a game play mechanic per se. I view it more as an underlying technology of an engine.) I'm sorry for the confusion there.

----

If anyone sees me using incorrect grammar, please correct me. I actually appreciate (and enjoy) being corrected.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 02:21 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 02:34
Quote: "but I don't think I'd be able to tell just from the concept, "AI Robot Fighting"."


Ok, the full run-down of the game...

1/ You start in the Robo-Lock Lab. Robo-Lock is the Trademark of Robo-Lock Robot Construction Parts. As the name suggests the parts lock together. You build your robot from a choice of 2000 default robot limbs, and parts. Each part can have advantages over another. Some are lightweight, some are toughened but heavier, some are faster, some can lift more weight, some are double jointed, some have springs for higher jumps, some are hydraulic, some are electric, some are just nicer styles. You have a cash limit, and you should try to get sponsorship by winning fights to buy better parts. You can customise the textures. Online you can buy more advanced parts.

2/ Your robot then requires an AI default chip. The default chip can have ready made moves. Without the default instructions you have a robot that wouldn't be able to get up off the floor. You can start like that if you wish, as a fully trained robot could end up more agile. But anyway you can buy some default moves which are simple moves to get you started. You can buy advanced moves as well, and online you can buy unique moves.

3/ You train your robot with a trainer bot. You control the trainer bot with the mouse, and keypad. The mouse, and keyboard moves are recorded. The AI robot tries to copy your moves from the trainer bot. These will gradually become its fighting moves, but AI takes time to learn. You teach it attack moves under the label of attack, and defence moves as defence, jump moves as jump, and weapon moves as weapon.

4/ Which brings us on to buying weapons. There are chainsaws, swords, hammers, metal bars, and you can buy more online.

5/ Once your robot is trained, you test it out in one of the fighting arenas. From easy arenas to Online World Championships. Your home computer is your test arena, but online fights are for real. Damage has to be repaired, and costs money, but online there is the possibility of total destruction. Online you have an account like Facebook for robots. When you upload a robot it has a profile. The online parts are often low-poly versions of the home computer parts. However if you reach the World Championships there is a video of the fights in HD which are recorded on a Base Computer. Only the 16 best robots can fight in the World Championships. With an online account you build up your status on a leaderboard of your wins, and losses. The scoring system works so that you score more against a robot with 100 wins, than a robot with 3 wins. But you can be totally destroyed so be careful. If a robot is destroyed a new one has to be uploaded. You lose your tally, and you lose that robot name.

6/ To win a fight you need to damage pressure pads hidden inside the robots. There are 5 pressure pads per robot, and the robot owner gets to hide them in slightly different places. But once a robot is uploaded, the pressure pads remain in their uploaded positions. Learn where to hit the World Champions to have an advantage over them. But the moves of the better robots may include defensive positions of these pads. The pads are also inside the body, so you need to hack through metal to get to them.
5 destroyed pads is death, but the owner of a robot is allowed to surrender, and just take a loss. You cannot fight the same robot twice unless it is in the World Championships. That prevents multiple account cheating. Also costs money to make an account, that is also to prevent cheating.

7/ Hopefully the game becomes so popular that the World Championships gets to be shown on TV in HD.

That's about it.

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 03:30
...Sounds arduous. I mean, who's your demogrpahic with that, Pincho?

Someone who put so much thought into a gameplay idea, yet so little into researching other games. I could bring out a list the size of my arm that aren't "point, shoot, grenade," but you'd ignore it anyway and keep battering out your opinion...

I mean seriously, you only played UT by your own admission...that doesn't even have grenades, and is deliberately simplified because it's multi-player derived.

Want to know the real reason every is boring and repetitive?

The world is too small.

Fifty years ago, you had books, TV and movies. Not that many, but now the latter two are multi-billion dollar industries, and gaming's rocked up to join the party. People have more free time than ever, more need to consume media, and as a result more media is being created than ever before to fulfill demand.

So in this world where creativity is being forced to accelerate, it's inevitable that the well runs dry. There are believed to be only seven stories in the world, as well.

Also the perception of originality seems to be higher. Lord of the Rings was released, so any other large-scale fantasy epic since has invariably been compared with it, no matter what. Fewer people pay as much attention to details, and retain as much memory because they're devouring so much media now.
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 09:41 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 09:47
Quote: "...Sounds arduous. I mean, who's your demogrpahic with that, Pincho?"


I'll let you decide. Personally, I think almost everyone. It has Facebook qualities, Robot Wars, World Of Warcraft, 3rd person Fighting, Sims, Transformers, Second Life, and sport characteristics. All top charters combined.

Quote: "I mean seriously, you only played UT by your own admission..."
How many times do I read "I want to make a Zombie shooter." I look online, and the latest game is a Zombie Shooter. The other games are army type shooters. I watch the E3 video, Army shooters are amongst the latest games.

Quote: "So in this world where creativity is being forced to accelerate, it's inevitable that the well runs dry. There are believed to be only seven stories in the world, as well."


I don't believe in 7 stories in the world. I don't believe most science, so that's another one of those useless facts. The well runs dry, you get VR glasses, and a new well is opened, you can start from scratch. Technology opens new doors.

Quote: "
Also the perception of originality seems to be higher. Lord of the Rings was released, so any other large-scale fantasy epic since has invariably been compared with it, no matter what. "


Avatar avoided LOTR, it's just that most people find it hard to be original.

TheComet
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 10:24
Quote: "I don't believe in 7 stories in the world. I don't believe most science, so that's another one of those useless facts. The well runs dry, you get VR glasses, and a new well is opened, you can start from scratch. Technology opens new doors."


Aye, but you can't give an example of a story that doesn't fit in one or more of these basic 7 plots.



book: http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Basic-Plots-Tell-Stories/dp/0826480373

http://aglssofwter.blogspot.de/2010/05/seven-types-of-stories.html
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=210539
http://suite101.com/article/the-seven-basic-plots-a46899
http://lenwilson.us/seven-stories/

Quote: "Avatar avoided LOTR, it's just that most people find it hard to be original."


If you're talking about the "Avatar" from James Cameron then sorry, but that film is far from being original. It's your typical action/thriller Hollywood shooter fantasy story, nothing more.

TheComet

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 11:39
Quote: "
Avatar avoided LOTR, it's just that most people find it hard to be original.
"


However, South Park summed it up. Dances with Smurfs. The plotline was basically Dances with Wolves/Pocahontus. I'd also throw in Braveheart too.

Quote: "How many times do I read "I want to make a Zombie shooter." I look online, and the latest game is a Zombie Shooter. The other games are army type shooters. I watch the E3 video, Army shooters are amongst the latest games."


But they're only 2 types of FPS out there. Heck even they vary title to title. Resident Evil (though not an FPS) and Left4Dead are 2 completely different games.

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 14:52 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 14:53
FPS games that aren't army/zombie:

Deus Ex,
Metro 2033,
Unreal Tournament,
Team Fortress 2,
Half Life...mostly, the focus isn't on zombies, but they occasionally appear as an enemy, among many others,
Crysis,
Halo...not a modern war game, at least. Focus is primarily sci-fi,
Fallout,
Brink,
Prey,
Homefront...(not really a war game, per-se.)

And that's just in my relatively small game collection.

Quote: "I don't believe in 7 stories in the world."


Disprove it, then. Comet posted the list, you tell me an 8th story, and I will take it all back...then take said story and get rich.

Quote: "How many times do I read "I want to make a Zombie shooter." I look online, and the latest game is a Zombie Shooter. The other games are army type shooters. I watch the E3 video, Army shooters are amongst the latest games."


Among them, obviously, but not composed entirely of them. In fact, the E3 line-up this year:
http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/5/31/3053237/e3-2012-shooters

Features about five modern war games, and as far as I can see, zero zombie games. This list combines both third and first person shooters, too.

Please Pincho, stop trying to troll FPS fans here.
Quik
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 16:22
Quote: "Crysis,"


Crysis could very well be put nito the army story - considering you are in fact part of the army..



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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 17:54 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 17:58
Quote: "Aye, but you can't give an example of a story that doesn't fit in one or more of these basic 7 plots.


1.man against man
2.man against nature
3.man against himself
4.man against God
5.man against society
6.man caught in the middle
7.man and woman"


They have nothing to do with stories, or books, so simple, the category is wrong. So you haven't named 1 yet.

Quote: "Please Pincho, stop trying to troll FPS fans here. "


Alright, any game with zombies, and a choice between a gun, and a grenade is un-original, not just FPS.

Quote: "The plotline was basically Dances with Wolves/Pocahontus. I'd also throw in Braveheart too. "


People have said that, but I wouldn't bother watching Dances with wolves, and I watched Avatar, so it had something more appealing to me.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 18:17 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 18:19
Well, there is a pages upon pages explaining what each means, it's how they managed to write a book on the 7 basic plots, but they are summarised down to 7 basic plots and that's what they are. A plot is defined as the events that make up a story.

Harry Potter -> Basic Plot: Harry vs Voldemort. Man Against Man
A Subplot ->
(spoiler). Man and woman.

Dante's Peak -> Basical plot: volcano is erupting, Pierce Brosnon has to rescue people before they die. Man against Nature.
A Subplot -> People in charge do not believe Pierce Brosnon that it's going to erupt. Man vs Man.

Jaws -> People vs Shark. Man against nature.

Edward Scissorhands -> An artificial human looking for acceptance in society. He is caught in the middle of people's prejudices and a family who cares for him. Man caught in the middle. Also, man vs society.
A subplot -> include man and woman and man against man. Heck you might even argument man against himself.

Shawshank Redemption -> Man against man. Also, caught in the middle (of the Warden's ego)

The Man Who Sued God -> Definitely man vs God.

Bruce Almighty -> Man vs God again. Yes, there's man and woman too. A personal battle (to understand what truly matters) - man vs himself.


Of course, these are only the basic plots and are basic summaries, but you can piece those althogether to make plot twists and even subplots. If we're talking complicated plot structures, then we wouldn't be talking about 7 BASIC plots.

The challenge is to point 1 plot that cannot be summed up by the 7 basic plots. So far, I haven't thought of any. But as soon as somebody thinks of the 8th plot, well, look forward to the publicity. It might require purchase of the 7 basic plots to understand what the 7 actually mean. I suspect man and woman could also be man and man and also woman and woman, because in terms of plot they're no different. Brokeback Mountain for example.

Quik
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 18:19
Quote: "Alright, any game with zombies, and a choice between a gun, and a grenade is un-original, not just FPS."


You got to be kidding me.



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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 18:21
Basically, Resident Evil was unoriginal.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 18:22 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 18:25
Quote: "The challenge is to point 1 plot that cannot be summed up by the 7 basic plots. "


Well they aren't plots, rewrite the dictionary. People believe too much of what they read, and sometimes even the dictionary is wrong. In this case, it is wrong.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 18:37 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 18:38
The Oxford Dictionary defines the plot as the main events that make up a story.

The events are vague, I'll grant you that, but at least one of these is applicable to any movie/book/film/play/game plot out there.

For example, a conflict between man and man is an event. It's vague, because all we know about the event is that there's 2 parties 'man' and 'man' and that they are conflicting. This could be anything, it could be anything from a war to sibling rivalry. But from the phrase, we know something is happening, therefore it is an event or could be grouped as events. And if it's the main event(s) in the story, then it's a plot. If it's not a part of the main event(s) then it's subplot.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 18:42 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 18:44
A book is say 600 pages of words taken from an entire dictionary. The random factor is very high.

The lotto's plot is 49 numbers. So that's 1 plot, so I will win the Lottery twice a week..... not.

Someone needs to amend the dictionary so that the plot of a story includes the random variations of events.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 18:56 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 18:58
Plot is just the events. 'Story' makes up for the entirety of it. A story may contain several plots or plot points. So I don't think the dictionary definition is lacking. Many people get the terms 'plot' and 'story' confused with one and another.

How you describe a plot might be as simple or as complicated as you like. In the case of 7 Basic Plots, they've brought the plots to the most BASIC level, hence they're so vague and lacking in description. From that you might have something lot more complex, but at the end of the day it boils down to those 7 basic plots.

Pride and Prejudice:
Most basic level - Man and woman.
Next level - Love affair between a man and woman.
Next level - A man and woman who are first at conflict, but realise their love for one and another.
Next level - A man who is seen destable in the eyes of a woman falls in love with said woman despite her social inferiority and the woman learns of the man's true colours and falls in love with him and they get married.
And well, you get the idea. All describe the main plot of Pride and Prejudice. Yes, now you know...I've actually read Pride and Prejudice, don't judge me, I studied English Literature at school.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 19:06
Quote: "From that you might have something lot more complex, but at the end of the day it boils down to those 7 basic plots. "


I still disagree. I live my life based on my own interpretations, because I find it puts me 10 years ahead most of the time.

1/ My Interpretation.
2/ Dictionary.
3/ Science.

bitJericho
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 19:09 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 19:11
Quote: "Someone needs to amend the dictionary so that the plot of a story includes the random variations of events."


Humans love to break things down into small parts and analyze them, or take small details and lump them into groups. When we talk about 7 major plots, it's true, think of a new major plot and make a story in that new genre. You'll either strike it rich or be labeled the worst writer in history

Same goes for science, we start at the very abstract and work our way down analyzing everything from the universe as a whole down to the subatomic, and the other way around.

If you can't get behind that idea (analyzing details to make more abstract, broader, rules), you really have no hope for being able to analyze anything.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 19:11
Quote: " I still disagree."


Then give me an example where none of the 7 basic plots could be applied.

TheComet
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 19:13
Quote: "They have nothing to do with stories, or books, so simple, the category is wrong. So you haven't named 1 yet."


Quote: "Well they aren't plots, rewrite the dictionary. People believe too much of what they read, and sometimes even the dictionary is wrong. In this case, it is wrong."


I knew you wouldn't even click one of those links.

What you're saying is silly, you're rejecting something that you don't understand. Hmm, that sounds familiar....

TheComet

"if you don't understand recursion than you probably don't understand recursion." ~Jerico2day
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 19:29
Quote: "Then give me an example where none of the 7 basic plots could be applied."


Man meets woman by tripping over her dog. That's a new plot, the plots are not plots.

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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 19:30
You don't understand the concept of a plot. That falls into the same category as "Man meets woman".

Your understanding (according to Pincho dictionary) is probably this:



TheComet

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xplosys
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 19:31
What about man against machine? (Terminator)

!retupmoc eht ni deppart m'I !pleH

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 19:37 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 19:41
You don't need to think of anything, stories don't break down, they are a whole like a molecule doesn't break down into atoms. Then it's not a molecule, it doesn't perform the same task. I could give you some sand, and say "Here's some new glass for your broken window."

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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 19:42 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 19:49
Quote: "That's a new plot, the plots are not plots."


Yes they are. They are compatible with the Oxford Dictionary's definition of 'plot'.


Quote: "Man meets woman by tripping over her dog. "


Plot 7: Man and woman.


Quote: "What about man against machine? (Terminator)"


Plotwise? That works exactly like man against man. Whilst it is simplified as man vs man, the plot works the same whether it's a real life man or an artificial man or a man of an alternate species. Like man and woman could actually be a man and a man (like Brokeback mountain).

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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 19:45
Quote: "a molecule doesn't break down into atoms"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX5Fcd8syp8&feature=youtu.be

Pincho, if everyone thought like you, what would be the purpose of literature?

TheComet

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 19:46 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 19:47
Quote: "Plot 7: Man and woman."


The reason that people get obsessed with something that is wrong, is because something that is wrong seems to be exciting.

"Wow 7 plots for any book!"

It's exciting because it is wrong. Bermuda triangle, exciting because it is wrong, Ghosts, UFO's exciting because they are wrong. Time Travel, Quantum Physics, exciting because they are wrong, Schroedinger's Cat, particle wave duality etc.

It's wrong, and that makes it interesting, but to me it is just wrong.

TheComet
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 19:47
In response to that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX5Fcd8syp8&feature=youtu.be

TheComet

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 19:49 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 19:50
Quote: " You don't need to think of anything, stories don't break down, they are a whole like a molecule doesn't break down into atoms. Then it's not a molecule, it doesn't perform the same task. I could give you some sand, and say "Here's some new glass for your broken window.""


When it comes to analysis it does. As Jerico pointed out. The whole 7 basic plots thing? Literary analysis. Also, you ever read a blurb? It's breaking down a story to detail concise information to attract a read to the book. The whole point of a 'summary' is to break down information. So essentially what you're arguing there is that 'summaries' can't possibly exist? Or maybe, you shouldn't make or use summaries?

[edit]
Come now Comet, I know it's probably getting on your nerves, but I'm sure we can do it without the trolling.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 19:57 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 19:59
Quote: "Or maybe, you shouldn't make or use summaries?"


Summary is the correct terminology. If you said a book breaks down to 7 summaries you are closer to the truth, but you lose your exciting experience, and you would still need to be careful about how you suggest such a thing.

TheComet
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 19:59 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 20:01
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to post this again!



[EDIT]

Quote: "Come now Comet, I know it's probably getting on your nerves, but I'm sure we can do it without the trolling."


Yeah, you're right... The jokes getting old already.

TheComet

"if you don't understand recursion than you probably don't understand recursion." ~Jerico2day
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 20:02 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 20:03
Quote: "Yeah, you're right... The jokes getting old already."


What joke? The Cartman laugh isn't a joke, it's a sign of your insecurities.

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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 20:03 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 20:05
I said they broke down to 7 summarised plots:

Quote: "Well, there is a pages upon pages explaining what each means, it's how they managed to write a book on the 7 basic plots, but they are summarised down to 7 basic plots and that's what they are"


And the dictionary considers them plots. Not summaries. So I used the correct terminology. The above quote? From my first response.


Who said anything about it being exciting? That's a strawman.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 20:05 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 20:05
Quote: "Who said anything about it being exciting? That's a strawman."


The fact that you remembered them with such an interest, and want to keep posting them. It's a frenzy of wow-dom.

Yeah, I used a word not in the dictionary.

TheComet
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 20:14
Quote: "What joke? The Cartman laugh isn't a joke, it's a sign of your insecurities."


If by insecurity you mean my inability to adequately describe the stupidity of your post using words, then yes.

"if you don't understand recursion than you probably don't understand recursion." ~Jerico2day
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 20:16
I'm a writer, so naturally I am interesting in anything to do with literary critique. I kept posting because you made a discussion out of it. Just because I can talk about a topic in depth doesn't mean I find it the most amazing thing on the planet. I can talk about Jane Austin's Emma in depth, but the book bored me to death. Start a discussion about that and I might contribute.

ionstream
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 20:25
All stories just rip off the old "something happens to someone" plot! They can never come up with anything new these days!

Benjamin
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 20:27
Quote: "1.man against man
2.man against nature
3.man against himself
4.man against God
5.man against society
6.man caught in the middle
7.man and woman"


Interesting thought, I wonder how true it is. Can anyone think of a film where none of these can apply?
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 20:30
Quote: "I'm a writer, so naturally I am interesting in anything to do with literary critique."


OK, so the interesting thing about the 7 plot breakdown is that it is wrong. It's interesting that people believe it, but people break down into two plots.. me, and everyone else.

TheComet
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 20:31 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 20:32
Quote: "All stories just rip off the old "something happens to someone" plot! They can never come up with anything new these days!"


Not quite true actually, because there's also the "something happens to themselves" plot.

Now back on topic!

Quote: "Pincho, perhaps you could simply provide your thoughts on whether large game companies are destroying or helping the indie market. It's not 100% on-topic, but it's close enough and somewhat related to the overall intention of this thread."


There are always positives and negatives and this is no exception. Large game companies help the indie market by innovating technology, however they also destroy them because I think that a lot of indie games aren't recognized due to the sheer amount of AAA games. Sometimes it almost feels like looking for a needle in a haystack.

TheComet

"if you don't understand recursion than you probably don't understand recursion." ~Jerico2day
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 20:51
Quote: "
OK, so the interesting thing about the 7 plot breakdown is that it is wrong."


But it's not wrong.

Unless you're able to do this:

Quote: "
Interesting thought, I wonder how true it is. Can anyone think of a film where none of these can apply? "


Simple.

Kezzla
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 20:56
Quote: "Quote: "1.man against man
2.man against nature
3.man against himself
4.man against God
5.man against society
6.man caught in the middle
7.man and woman"

Interesting thought, I wonder how true it is. Can anyone think of a film where none of these can apply?"


maybe this one?



Sometimes I like to use words out of contents
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 21:09
Depends which plot you wanna take. The overall story about Rejected? It's about an animator whose work is rejected because it is too bizarre. I would suggest that's man against society. With the turn towards the end he turns angry against his own ideas and creates essentially a black hole of animation, that's man against himself (internal conflicts reflected on the animations by the animator represented by the story of the piece, the character of the 'animator' is perhaps fictional, I don't think Don Herzfeldt really sent those out to those companies, but I could be wrong).

Random sketches? Angry ticks: man against nature. The shouting "waaahhhhh" with blood spurting out of an eye socket? Man against man. The hats? Man against society. Anus bleeding? Man against nature. "I am the queen of dance", man against man. The baby falling down the stairs? Baby vs gravity, so that one's nature.

TheComet
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 21:12 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 21:14
...

8. Complete and utter nonsense

On a serious note, yes, you can actually assign that into one of the 7 basic plots. Here's a quote from wikipedia:

Quote: "The film "rejected" presents itself as a reel of rejected commercial work by a fictional version of Don Hertzfeldt. The commissioned animated vignettes grow more and more abstract and inappropriate as the animator suffers a mental breakdown, until they literally fall apart."


The story is in fact about the animator, so one can say that it can be assigned to:

Quote: "5.man against society"


Because his shorts are being rejected by society, which causes his mental breakdown.

NEXT.

[EDIT] @ Seppuku - *High Five*

TheComet

"if you don't understand recursion than you probably don't understand recursion." ~Jerico2day
xplosys
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 21:40
Quote: "Plotwise? That works exactly like man against man. Whilst it is simplified as man vs man, the plot works the same whether it's a real life man or an artificial man or a man of an alternate species."


So plotwise, they all work like something against something else. So why not just simplify all of them into one?

!retupmoc eht ni deppart m'I !pleH

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