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Geek Culture / Design of artificial intelligence must read

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 12:44
But a computer can not calculate with infinite precition, they can calculate with enough prescition that we normaly don't have to care about it, but when it comes to this problem, a computer can't handle an infinite amount of decimals.
mr Handy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 12:59 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 13:00
Quote: "a computer can't handle an infinite amount of decimals."

Actually if you use any "infinite" number in any calculation, you will never finish that calculation.

What result (except memory overflow LOL) you expect from:

DO
a=a+1
LOOP
print a


You will get no result. To get the result you must stop the process.

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 13:38
And by stopping the process, you do not calculate the maximum number a can reach, only an estimation of it. Because of that, a computer can not prove wheter or not 0.(9) = 1 or not
mr Handy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 14:22
Quote: "you do not calculate the maximum number"

If do not stop the process - I do? Interesting.
Quote: "a computer can not prove"

Computer already gave me independent result. Proof, shmoof. Result!

Debate is over.

P.S. Though you can send email to Intel, Microsoft or other "silly" guys that made such "silly" hardware and software. Tell 'em the truth.

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 14:30
I have not said that computers are bad, or microsoft or intel... Computers are ideal for calculating advanced mathematics but not calculating 1/3 because there is no real solution, 1/3 is an infinite number. And like you said, a computer can't calculate infinity.

Your "proof" proves that as far as a computer is concerned, what you are saying is true. But mathematicaly, that dosn't prove anything
mr Handy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 15:05
Quote: "there is no real solution"

may I correct you, "there is no single solution"
Quote: "1/3 is an infinite number"

may I correct you, "1/3 is not a number, it is a fraction, i.e. an expression".

Peace?

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 15:07
Alright, a computer can't actually calculate a fraction with infinite prescition
mr Handy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 15:14
Chuck Norris can do it!

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the_winch
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 15:27
If a group of people are having a discussion about x in the context of subject y. It's not cleaver to say something controversial to cause an argument and then at the end say "but I'm right about x in the context of subject z".

Any idiot can break the rules of conversation like that. It's on the same level as just shouting over the top of anybody that tries to speak.

By way of demonstration, he emitted a batlike squeak that was indeed bothersome.
Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 16:19
@mr handy
Just in case you're wondering, in pure math, you're wrong.


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Libervurto
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 16:30 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 16:32
@Handy
The point is that, because the string of digits is infinitely long, no matter how many digits you work to there will always be one more after it. This extra digit is always taken into consideration when calculating, otherwise you will get rounding errors.

The issue you are having is the same as saying that 5/2 doesn't make any sense because 5/2 = 2.5 which because we are working to one significant figure we round it up to 3.0, then 3*2 is 6! All you are doing is producing a rounding error. When calculating with a recurring number you producing the same error by rounding off too early.


mr Handy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 16:30
@Neuro Fuzzy
I can post this too: you are wrong.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 16:40 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 16:45
@OBese87
1/3 = 0.(3) only with rounding,
0.(3)*3 = 0.(9) if there is no reminder
if 0.(9) = 1 then there is a reminder
therefore there is two 0.(9)

And as I said earlier,
A=0.(3)
B=0.(3)
1=A+A+B when B>A
Because I am not loosing the reminder, which is the reason of infinity of process

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TheComet
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 16:45
Tell me then, what is 1 - 0.999999.. ?

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mr Handy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 16:48
You wrote the answer.
Or if your 0.(9)=0.(9)9 then result is 0.(0)1

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TheComet
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 16:56
And that doesn't exist, so it has to be 0.

3*0.(3) = 0.(9) AND it equals 1 at the same time, depending on how you look at it.


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Libervurto
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 17:10 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 17:17
Quote: "0.(3)*3 = 0.(9) if there is no remainder"

No, that is incorrect. Since 0.(9) is infinitely recurring there is always one more digit than you are able to count and therefore that digit must be rounded up, or else you are ignoring its value, therefore 0.(9) = 1.

0.9999 =/= 0.999
0.9999 = 0.999 + 0.0009
0.0009 = 0.001 to 3 decimal places.
0.999 + 0.001 = 1

You must do this no matter what accuracy you work to.

The "bug" only occurs because we must work at a finite degree of accuracy. The fact is that 0.333... * 3 = 1 but it is impossible to represent in its natural form with a finite number of digits, because it has infinite digits. The limitation is that we have to use physical things to calculate, it's not a limitation of mathematics. If we had a metaphysical calculator there would be no confusion.


mr Handy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 17:16 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 17:44
Quote: "And that doesn't exist"

Just because you can't imagine that?

Quote: "depending on how you look at it."

My look: not equals.

As I said, it depends on how did you get this 0.(9):
(1/3)*3 is not equal 0.(9)
0.(3) is equal 0.(9)



0.(9)/7 = 0.(142857)

1-0.(142857)=0.(857142)

1-0.142857=0.857143
1-0.142857142857142857142857=0.857142857142857142857143
1-0.(142857)=0.(857142)857143

0.857143=0.(857142)
0.857143=0.(857142857142...)
Isn't this a rounding up huh?

I like how two different numbers can be same, your math is so trippy.

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TheComet
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 17:20
Quote: "Just because you can't imagine that?"


No, because there is no "end" to infinity. It has nothing to do with imagination.

Quote: "(1/3)*3 is not equal 0.(9)"


Yes it is. But it is also equal to 1. Both answers are correct.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 17:25 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 17:27
Quote: "0.857143=0.(857142)
0.857143=0.(857142857142...)
Isn't this a rounding up huh?

I like how two different numbers can be same, your math is so trippy."

This is why we have scientific notation, so there is no ambiguity about whether a number is being explicitly expressed or if has been rounded to some degree of accuracy.

The crux of your issue is basically complaining at the fact that we are forced to work to a finite degree of accuracy, well of course we do! We can conceive of 0.999... being different to 1, but the only way we can actually give it a value is by terminating the string at some point, which requires rounding to 1.

Put simply, 0.999... is closer to 1.0 than any finite length of 0.999...

Next you will be saying that pi doesn't exist because it is irrational.


mr Handy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 17:38 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 17:50
@OBese87
The item of discussion is statement: (1/3)*3=1 without roundings and remainders, 0.(9) is the same value as 1.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 17:48 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 17:49
Technically, 1.0 is not a finite number either, otherwise we could not do 1/3 or even 1/2; this is why if you type those into DB you'll get the answer 0. We have to specify that we are using floats to get greater accuracy. You are thinking of each digit as a separate integer, it doesn't work like that.

btw it is "remainder" not "reminder".


mr Handy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 17:52 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 18:12
Quote: "btw it is "remainder" not "reminder"."

That was a typo

Quote: "Put simply, 0.999... is closer to 1.0 than any finite length of 0.999..."

So you are on my side. I mean your word "closer"

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I said: 0.(9) is the largest number to 1.

TheComet said: 1-0.(9)=0

Zotoaster said: it's called proof by contradiction. You may say y to be the largest number less than 1, but it's still a number and you can still get the average between it and 1, which will always be greater than y. Hence, there is no largest number less than 1, because you can always, always, always get a larger number.

ionstream said: if there is a y then there must be a z. Since the existence of z contradicts y, then y must not exist.

So 0.(9) = 1, there is some number larger than it and finally it does not exist.


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Libervurto
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 18:05
I'm not really on your side because you're basically saying "why can't we use infinite numbers?"... Because we can't.


mr Handy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 18:16
Quote: "you're basically saying "why can't we use infinite numbers?""

Here:
Quote: "Actually if you use any "infinite" number in any calculation, you will never finish that calculation."

We can't, you are right.

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ionstream
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 19:41 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 19:47
Quote: "In the picture ionstream posted, the website even states the repeating decimal is just a decimal "approximation", which I can see causing some confusion."


The answer with "0.333333333333333333333..." is labeled as an approximation because it cannot show infinite 3's. The answer "0.3_" (repeating) is not an approximation.

Mr Handy has sort of lost what he was trying to argue with to begin with. First he thought 0.(3) is less than 1/3rd, then he thought it was above 0.3 because Darkbasic said so, which might be his current stance, I don't know. He is also selectively ignoring our complete decimation of his logic.

Quote: "mr Handy came from dark cave, me don't know what float is. Float is some thing floating on the river? Brain hurts."


If you think a floating point number system can prove anything about math, much less something with recurring decimal notation, then yeah, apparently you don't know what a float is or how it works or how math between two floats works. Your logic is that "computers are meant to compute therefore what my computer spits out is right." This sorta tells me you have no idea what's going on inside your computer. Use a more advanced scientific package, like sympy, Matlab, mathematica, or Wolfram Alpha if you don't believe me.

Quote: "Just because you can't imagine that?"


No, because the notation you're using says it doesn't exist.

Why is 1/3 - 0.3 repeating = 0 with no difference (not remainder, remainders have to do with division)? Because for any given iteration of subtracting 1/3rd by 0.3 repeating, the difference is going to be filled in by the next digit.

First digit:

1/3 - 0.3
= 1/3 - 3/10
= 10/30 - 9/30
= 1/30 <- the difference so far

Second digit:

1/30 - 0.03
= 1/30 - 3/100
= 10/300 - 9/300
= 1/300 <- the difference so far

Third digit:

1/300 - 0.003
= 1/300 - 3/1000
= 10/3000 - 9/3000
= 1/3000 <- the difference so far

xth digit:

1/(3 * 10^x) - .3*(10^-x)
= 1/(3 * 10^x) - 3*(10^-x)/10
= 1/(3 * 10^(x+1))


Because this is true for all digits in 0.3 repeating, the difference in any particular digit is subtracted by the next digit, and the next, and the next. Therefore there is no difference - it is wholly accounted for. If you say, "The difference starts here at this digit, " I can say no it doesn't, its handled by the digit next to it, for any digit you choose.

Bonus, it's another proof for why 0.999... is 1.



Surely you can see the glaring, massive error with this little equation? 3 + 1/3 is your repeating term? As in, 6.3333?

mr Handy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 20:14
Quote: "The answer with "0.333333333333333333333..." is labeled as an approximation because it cannot show infinite 3's. The answer "0.3_" (repeating) is not an approximation. "

like
Quote: "Stone floats on the river because it is wooden as glass."


Quote: "This sorta tells me you have no idea what's going on inside your computer."

There are lots of small dwarfs living inside. They do magic!

Quote: "No, because the notation you're using says it doesn't exist."

Then 0.(9) is the largest number to 1.

You are ingnoring the sense of discussion.
You are selectively ignoring propositions that you don't like.
You just keep spitting the same arguable propositions on and on.
Quote: "He is also selectively ignoring our complete decimation of his logic."

You are impudent, sir.
You can't find in wikipedia new arguments and change your tactics to offensive.

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ionstream
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 20:24
Quote: "No, because the notation you're using says it doesn't exist."

Quote: "Then 0.(9) is the largest number to 1."



Uhh how do you follow? You wrote "then result is 0.(0)1". Since 0.(0)1 says never add a 1, it is equivalent to just saying 0. The proof about largest numbers still holds...

Quote: "You are selectively ignoring propositions that you don't like."


I'm pretty sure I've completely countered every argument you've come up with with rigorous proof, haven't I? Is there something I missed? Do I need to explain to you IEEE754 math to show you what DarkBasic is doing and why it has nothing to do with repeating decimals?

Quote: "You just keep spitting the same arguable propositions on and on."


That's because you keep repeating the same incorrect statements over and over, such as 0.3 repeating is less than (or greater than) 1/3rd, 1-0.999 repeating is 0.(0)1, DarkBasic beats calculus, Liebniz and Newton were dirty frauds, et cetera, but you still just don't get it. Again, if you don't believe me, ask any mathematician, Google it, read a book or ten, or anything to expand and correct what your intuition has led you to believe.

mr Handy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 20:33 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 20:52
Quote: "haven't I?"

You have not.

Quote: "Since 0.(0)1 says never add a 1, it is equivalent to just saying 0."

Says what? It says 1 after infinity.

Here, read again how your proofs are look like:
Quote: "Stone floats on the river because it is wooden as glass."


I, at least, trying to anayze different conceptions.

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 20:49
Mr Handy,

If DarkBasic is telling you that 1/3 is not equal to 0.(3), then how do you explain that Wolfram Alpha is telling you the exact opposite, that they are equal? We all know that floating point representation is inaccurate, and we all know that Wolfram Alpha can work around that, but you seem to be saying that it's wrong.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 20:53 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 20:59
Wolfram Alpha says:
Input: 1/3+1/3
Exact result: 2/3
Decimal approximation: 0.(6)

BUT!
1/3+1/3+1/3=1 exactly.

The key words are "exact" and "approximation".

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TheComet
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 20:54
DarkBASIC is too inaccurate to make any conclusions.

TheComet


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mr Handy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 21:03 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 21:05
Wolfram is cheating. He knows that 9 is the largest, so rounding it up to remove period.

(1/3)/(5/7)+(1/3)=0.8

Exact result from periods.

Quote: "is labeled as an approximation because it cannot show infinite 3's. The answer "0.3_" (repeating) is not an approximation."

Red apple is not red, it's red.

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 21:03 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 21:04
mrHandy, this is an argument that you can't win.

Hell, this isn't an argument, this is a conversation where one person is wasting other peoples' time by repeatedly stating that FACTS and PROOFS are false and otherwise saying rather illogical things.

Nice thing about facts and proofs, whether you believe them or not, they are still true.

http://www.google.com/
ionstream
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 21:08
Quote: "You have not."


Do point to what I haven't completely disproven yet.

Quote: "Says what? It says 1 after infinity."


You realize that infinity doesn't end, don't you? The statement is saying "Add a zero. Never stop adding zeroes. Never stop under any circumstances. Then, add a 1." Do you see what's happening here?

Here's a primer, that is, if you don't think Wikipedia is under some conspiracy: Repeating decimal. It's also worth point out that every repeating decimal is a rational number, that is, a number that can be expressed as a quotient of two integers. Click links, read, and learn.

Quote: "I, at least, trying to anayze different conceptions."


I'm gonna be honest, I think you know you're wrong and have known for the last couple of pages. I think you're trying to argue to save face from being an a-hole on the first couple of pages, despite the fact that you have no leg to stand on and are arguing against universally accepted facts. This is not rocket science here, this is fairly basic math.

http://hotmath.com/hotmath_help/topics/terminating-and-repeating-decimals.html
http://mathcentral.uregina.ca/QQ/database/QQ.09.96/reed1.html
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=9684

One of my favorite books:
http://www.amazon.com/Mathematical-Proofs-Transition-Advanced-Mathematics/dp/0321390539/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1367172459&sr=8-3&keywords=math+proofs

mr Handy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 21:10
@Dark basic dude79
A random person joins the discus just to toss some crap into ventilator. Very clever of you.
Quote: "wasting other peoples' time"

Why are you here then? No one is holding you.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 21:20 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 21:36
Quote: "universally accepted facts"

You are the universe and anything you say is a fact.

Quote: "I think you're trying to argue to save face from being an a-hole on the first couple of pages,"

When a person runs out of arguments, he starts a personal offence.
From now on, all of your "proofs" are rejected, no matter if arguable or not.
You have proved only your unethical conduct.
Conversation is over.

Currently 0.(3)!=1/3 and 0.(9)!=1.(0) is arguable. I am bored. I shall quit now.

P.S. @all sorry for double post.

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rolfy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 21:48 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 21:53
Quote: "When a person runs out of arguments, he starts a personal offence.
From now on, all of your "proofs" are rejected, no matter if arguable or not.
You have proved only your unethical conduct.

Conversation is over."

Since these proofs were never accepted anyhow,Narcissism comes to mind, is it all over then?

'In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual.' -Galileo

'I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him.' -Galileo

I don't trip over...I do random gravity checks.
Indicium
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 22:17
Computers aren't a reliable source in this instance regardless of whether floating point numbers lose precision, computers work in binary, this is a 'flaw' of the decimal system. Not that binary doesn't have the same problem with 1/3 of course.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
mr Handy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 22:28 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 22:39
Quote: "Since these proofs were never accepted anyhow"

wut
Quote: "Narcissism comes to mind"

wut
Quote: "is it all over then"

wut

p.s. this post is just my "reaction". nevermind.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 22:45
Well, I figure I should chip in with my attempt at understanding it. But I'm by no means a mathematician.

When you divide 1 by 3 you get 0.333, when you time that by 3 you get 0.999. Seemingly you've lost a value, but 0.999 and 1 can be divided by the same number and get the exact same value as well. The only difference between the 2 numbers is how we choose to represent the number. To me, when looking at it from that angle, it really seems simple. The problem is, you can't get an infinitely small value, something that's 'infinitely small' is also something that does not exist. This is perhaps why we round recurring numbers, you're not losing any value nor are you gaining any, you're simply changing how you're representing it.

Have I understood?


Quote: "When a person runs out of arguments, he starts a personal offence."


Telling people they're fat trolls and suggesting somebody skipped maths class to imply they don't know what they're talking about and making jokes about 'American' maths (like 'American' is somehow derogative) isn't a personal offense? You've used the tactics you're now condemning.

rolfy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 23:10 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 23:24
Quote: "wut
wut
wut"

Quote: "Telling people they're fat trolls and suggesting somebody skipped maths class to imply they don't know what they're talking about and making jokes about 'American' maths (like 'American' is somehow derogative) isn't a personal offense? You've used the tactics you're now condemning."

Its an inordinate need to be right....think about it and instead of reacting, try responding.
When you discuss paradox (infinity) there are no rights or wrongs But I will be honest with you, it comes down to credibility when we accept opinion, like it or not its how it is.
Most of your posts anywhere on these boards aren't what I would call substantive and in fact are kinda the opposite, but for some reason you have chosen to pick a fight with more serious minds around here, why? I have no idea, maybe you thought it would be fun.

Believe it or not you are right up to a point but you are also wrong. Wrong in that you narrow it down to one proof and reject another, just as valid, proof.
It is impossible to prove infinity even it does exist or could exist mathematically (at least in any practical sense, its a purely philosophical argument even in math) you have to accept that it becomes so small or large that its effects are completely irrelevant.

We all have a healthy level of narcissism, it can get extreme though.Reacting to criticism with anger, or humiliation.
You all appear to have a strong 'need to be right'. Some just present themselves in a better manner.

I don't trip over...I do random gravity checks.
mr Handy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 23:29 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 23:45
Quote: "making jokes about 'American' maths"

What jokes? The link to wikipedia of Pi=3.2 is not a "joke".

Quote: "Telling people they're fat trolls"

...is the just same as telling they are dicks? or "a-holes"?

Quote: "Have I understood?"

Yes. There is a infinitely small remainder that is rounded, as you said.

And, as you said, you can have two angles of view:
1) "pure" 0.(3) -- 0.333333333333333...*3 = "pure" 0.(9) < 1
2) "dirty" 0.(3) as a result of 1/3, -- 0.3333333333333 + infinitley small remainder, *3 = "dirty" 0.(9) that is >= 1 therefore =1

DBP shows that 0.(3)>1/3 but 0.(3)*3=1 because 0.(9) safe to round up to 1, it is like "special" number.

If you read first page, it's the ionstream who said that 0.(9)==1:
Quote: "If 0.999~ is not one, then 1 - 0.999 would be some real number....Since this number is now just zero, 1 - 0.999~ = 0. Therefore they are equal."

He just substracted an infinite approximation from 1 and got real result. He's Chuck Norris.

Edit:
@rolfy
I can respond to stream of consciousness only with facepalm, no offence. More likely you just missed the thread when posting.

«Just because you’re unique, doesn’t mean you’re useful»
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rolfy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 23:51 Edited at: 29th Apr 2013 00:46
Quote: "I can respond to stream of consciousness only with facepalm, no offence. More likely you just missed the thread when posting"
.
wut?

Oh! who cares anymore....your kind of amusing but fall short of actually being funny.

I don't trip over...I do random gravity checks.
TheComet
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 23:57
I've found a picture accurately reflecting where this thread is heading.



TheComet


Level 91 Forumer - 9600 health, 666'666 keystroke power (*2 coffee)
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 23:57 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 23:58
Quote: "Quote: "Telling people they're fat trolls"
...is the just same as telling they are dicks? or "a-holes"?"


It's still being personal and offensive. I think it's because of that you were called those things. You've had a pretty poor attitude towards other posters throughout the thread, so I wouldn't complain being called those things. I wouldn't do it myself, but I won't buy that you're innocent. Don't like people being rude/offensive? Try not being rude/offensive yourself and you might find people respond better. I avoid it and most of the time I find people respond to me better.

A lot of your posts are incredibly snarky and sarcastic as well.

Michael P
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Posted: 29th Apr 2013 00:04
mmm I can't tell if mr Handy is deliberately trolling or just has trouble listening and understanding other people's explanations.

Either way, this is the longest most unproductive argument I've participated in on this forum.

Which broadly goes like:
mr Handy: blue is green
person A: blue is blue
person B: blue is blue
person C: blue is blue
mr Handy: no, blue is green
person D: blue is blue
person A: blue is blue
person C: blue is blue
mr Handy: no, blue is green

Anyway, it was fun but now I am leaving this thread

Diggsey
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Posted: 29th Apr 2013 00:07
Wow it seemed about time for yet another of these "discussions" about whether 0.999... = 1 or not to come up! (There have been about eight just in the time I've been here)

There are lots of ways to prove that 0.999... = 1, but here's one that shows that thinking otherwise leads directly to a contradiction:

Assume 0.999... is somehow less than 1

1 * 0.999... = 0.999...
2 * 0.999... = 1.999... (you're welcome to suggest an alternative but it's simple to show that 2*0.999... > 1.998...)
0.999... + 0.999... = 1.999...
1 + 0.999... = 1.999... (care to disagree?)

Contradiction, because adding "0.999..." should never be the same as adding "1" if they are different numbers.

The fundamental misunderstanding seems to be confusing the notation used to represent numbers with the numbers themselves. Why do you find it so hard to believe that there is more than one way to represent the same number?

The concept of the number "1" is a quantity, an idea, whatever. Just because we write it as "1" doesn't mean that's the only way of writing it. You can also write it as "one", "1.0", "0.999..." they are all just names for the same concept. Why are you not arguing that "one" represents a different number from "1"?

The fact of the matter is that the notation is a human invention, and as such what is "correct" about that notation is decided by whoever sets the rules for that notation. In this case "0.999..." is defined to represent the same number as "1" so if you're going to use the same notation as the rest of us you are by definition wrong.

What you are more likely arguing is that "0.999..." should be redefined to mean a number different from "1". According to your own words this number should:
- be the largest possible number less than "1".

Such a number does not exist. Proof:
- Assume x = largest possible number less than 1
- Let y = (x + 1)/2 (ie. half-way between x and 1)
- Now x < y < 1, so x is not the largest possible number less than 1
- Contradiction!

[b]
Chris Tate
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Posted: 29th Apr 2013 00:51 Edited at: 29th Apr 2013 00:58
What is one? One of what? (Rhetorical question)

rolfy
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Posted: 29th Apr 2013 00:53 Edited at: 29th Apr 2013 00:54
'There can be only one'-Highlander.

I don't trip over...I do random gravity checks.

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