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Geek Culture / What browser do you use to view this forum?

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 18th Sep 2013 15:02 Edited at: 18th Sep 2013 15:05
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I'm not convinced that these people are making efficient use of the earths resources....

A windows interface, or a linux interface, or something not necessary 'Aero' based, perhaps Windows Sever 2003 or something can do everything the current DOS system can do with the keyboard, plus a whole lot more, which could open up new capabilities; and there are so many applications they can implement that could not be installed on a DOS system.

I use a DOS system everyday; lots of the time you have to keep changing screens when a tab control or window layout with Alt Tab feature would have been so much more time effecient; DOS software can be programmed to feature such shortcuts, after-all some windows systems are DOS based; but it is not straight forward to implement; which is why Microsoft implemented them for you.

If it aint broke, don't fix it; or, more work in less time? I would prefer more work in less time. Copy and Paste, Undo, Resizable Windows, Toolbar Docking, Recycling bin, File History, Screenshots, Email, instant messaging; this stuff is 20 years old??

'My network systems are not broke at 8pm, I'll stick with the way things while my competitors get the job done by 2pm' society needs to think about the future, with all these business closures...

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MrValentine
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Posted: 18th Sep 2013 15:16
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[quote]'My network systems are not broke at 8pm, I'll stick with the way things while my competitors get the job done by 2pm' society needs to think about the future, with all these business closures...[/quote]

I find it ironic when I walk into a company and their internet is designed to handle 10 computers simultaneously and they have 80~+ devices using it constantly, and they are complaining about slow/no connectivity all day long, and then they have a media depot uploading content to their sites...



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mr Handy
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Posted: 18th Sep 2013 15:20
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You need to hire Jehovah's Witnesses to visit every company to persuade them to accept a Linux religion or their souls will burn in DOS.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th Sep 2013 15:25
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Quote: "You need to hire Jehovah's Witnesses to visit every company to persuade them to accept a Linux religion or their souls will burn in DOS."


On of our supervisors at work is a Jehovah's Witness and IT's upgrading us to Windows 7, not Linux, it would seem his influence isn't very strong, mind you, our IT guy is a Jedi master. "These aren't the Linux you're looking for."

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 18th Sep 2013 15:37
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lol

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mr Handy
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Posted: 18th Sep 2013 15:47
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Your IT must be Pastafarians.

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Ortu
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Posted: 18th Sep 2013 16:56
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most IT departments are ready and willing to upgrade, the problem is that they are not the ones making the decisions on this. they are chained by budgets set by executives who on one hand have to balance the expense of upgarde against all other operational needs, and on the otherhand, often have no real understanding of the impact and seriousnessness of remaining stuck with vastly outdated software and systems, at least until something goes wrong

case in point, our company has several mission critical bits of software that are tied to 16bit dos code and we literally cannot get them to work properly on anything newer than XP. when we replace a pc, we reimage over windows 7 to revert it back tp XP. but as long as we can keep it running, the hefty price tag of replacing all this mess with current systems is not an option at this time.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 18th Sep 2013 17:04
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Quote: "case in point, our company has several mission critical bits"

Like this?


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Libervurto
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Posted: 18th Sep 2013 17:35 Edited at: 18th Sep 2013 17:40
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Quote: "Does anyone have an experienced answer? Is it because it is cheaper to keep the old system than to replace with a new one?"

A lot of companies use bespoke software, so it's not just a matter of upgrading hardware, there's paying for the new software and training staff to use it. It's a long-term investment, which sadly too few businesses seem willing to make.

Quote: " they are chained by budgets set by executives who on one hand have to balance the expense of upgarde against all other operational needs, and on the otherhand, often have no real understanding of the impact and seriousnessness of remaining stuck with vastly outdated software and systems, at least until something goes wrong "

Bingo.


Formerly OBese87.
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Chris Tate
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Posted: 18th Sep 2013 18:16 Edited at: 18th Sep 2013 18:20
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Investment it is! It is so true what you say. More needs to be understood about digital impact on work performance; the cost of running a feature-thin system without re-training VS the profit gained by reducing procedures and timescale PLUS the expense of reoccuring redevelopment; one wonders if they can even think about making daily improvements at all! Why should a day to day improvement be impossible in a business? - Or perhaps I am mistaken, it might take 5 minutes to improve a DOS interface layout.

Is it cheaper to change a modular system such as an in-browser intranet, cloud service or desktop client application; than to restructure a DOS based software update? (I do not know personally)

I'm wondering if say a new switchboard navigation link needed to be added to a DOS system, would that take longer and cost more money than creating a Windows shortcut on the task-bar?

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Jimpo
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Posted: 19th Sep 2013 02:11 Edited at: 19th Sep 2013 02:36
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One of the big benefits of working at a software company is being able to install whatever software and OS you want, and being able to upgrade it freely.

I agree with everyone here that using outdated software can really slow down a business. I have too many horror stories from the first place I worked.

http://degorpg.blogspot.com/
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Phaelax
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Posted: 19th Sep 2013 05:41
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Quote: "The image I posted was safe. I don't take responsibility on your own actions on any site, especially when a warning has been posted which you ignored."

You can't be serious! I'm talking about the link you posted, not some image. The page you linked to is littered with porn all over it! No where in your post did you warn about anything like that! I can't believe a mod hasn't removed such a link from your post already, because it sure wasn't appropriate to open in front of my grandma! I'm not saying I'm offended by the content, but I thought this forum had a policy about linking to such content regardless of the reason.



And as someone already mentioned, IT departments are ready and willing to upgrade, they just don't have the approval to do so. And unfortunately, much of IT infrastructure is governed by CEOs that have no clue what any of it actually is.

http://zimnox.com
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mr Handy
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Posted: 19th Sep 2013 07:17 Edited at: 19th Sep 2013 07:22
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You have not read my posts, it's your fault. There was a warning
Quote: "P.S. this example picture on this anime image channel is safe, but the others are may be not!"

and a explanation why that link. Provide a better example with long page title if you can or you are just trolling.

If you don't like ads, you may have adblock. All up to you again.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 19th Sep 2013 08:04
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You didn't post a picture, I don't know where you keep getting that from. The only content was a single link, which why post it at all? Your reasoning is as absurd as pasting a logout link disguised as something else then blaming the user for clicking it. If anyone is trolling it's the one posting porn links then complaining its the users fault for clicking it.

As stated in the AUP:
Quote: "3.6 Anything considered "adult" material (be it pornographic or horrific)"


Doesn't matter how you try to validate posting that link, it's still against the AUP. So yea, it's YOUR fault, nobody elses. I tried to be polite by pointing it out, but for some reason you want to argue about it and defend it.

http://zimnox.com
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mr Handy
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Posted: 19th Sep 2013 09:04 Edited at: 19th Sep 2013 09:09
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Quote: "The only content was a single link, which why post it at all?"

Okay, here is more food for the troll:

That link was posted because of page title contents many image tags. The image itself has nothing to do with mr Handy's post or this thread. The explanation and warning were clearly written in English. The results of bookmarking were posted too. Random ad banner is not target site's content. Mr Handy is not responsible on random generator and ads image base. Phaelax agreed to see web ads as he has no ad blocking software installed. Phaelax agreed that some images may be unsafe as he have read the warning and he visited the target site.

mr Handy never
Quote: "posted a logout link disguised as something else then blaming the user for clicking it"


P.S.
The prior text to mr Handy's post with the link is:
Quote: "Also IE stores bookmarks as files, so they have name length limitation!"


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easter bunny
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Posted: 19th Sep 2013 09:28 Edited at: 19th Sep 2013 09:30
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edit: Yep, I'm responding to the previous page cause I didn't see the next one

Major companies using IE just doesn't make sense, especially companies like banks and other high-security organisations. Everyone knows (or should know) how insecure IE is, they have to release security updates all the time. Anyone remember operation aurora?
You'd think companies would learn.

Then again, pen testers have to get work somehow.....

And on the subject:



Audacia Games
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mr Handy
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Posted: 19th Sep 2013 09:30
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Quote: "Major companies using IE just doesn't make sense, especially companies like banks and other high-security organisations. Everyone knows (or should know) how insecure IE is, they have to release security updates all the time."

Are you sure that there is no real purpose? I mean maybe some bank software needs IE?

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easter bunny
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Posted: 19th Sep 2013 09:46
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Quote: "Are you sure that there is no real purpose? I mean maybe some bank software needs IE?"

well, I suppose so, but you'd think that they would update it ASAP and move on to another browser, even a custom one


Audacia Games
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mr Handy
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Posted: 19th Sep 2013 10:43
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Maybe they using IE because of EULA? Open-source means less responsibility, when proprietary means MS will pay.

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 19th Sep 2013 13:35 Edited at: 19th Sep 2013 13:41
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[Edit

@MissJoJo You are not alone.

Quote: "edit: Yep, I'm responding to the previous page cause I didn't see the next one "

]

Quote: "Bookmarks are the air of the Web."


What's a bookmark?

IE does what I want it to do, why change (and I'm sure I don't use many of the features in that)? Others may require features not properly supported by IE but that's up to them surely?

It's the same with other software. I still use MS Excel 2003 because it does everything I need and I'm familiar with it. When I was at work I had to learn Excel 2007 - but since then I've reverted to 2003 for my personal use because I find it simpler and easier. Others may find Excel 2007 or the more recent version(s?) better. Again, that's their choice.

[Actually, I've never been really happy since paper tape and punched cards became obsolete. ]



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mr Handy
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Posted: 19th Sep 2013 14:01 Edited at: 19th Sep 2013 14:05
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Quote: "What's a bookmark?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bookmark_(World_Wide_Web)

P.S.
Quote: "Others may require features not properly supported by IE but that's up to them surely?"

What IE are you using? I heard that major mail providers (like gmail) are willing to cut support of "not latest" IE versions.

Update: a friend of mine told me that support of services will be cut for IE8 (and for XP users, therefore). Gmail and Yandex at least, not sure about others.

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Ortu
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Posted: 19th Sep 2013 17:05
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Quote: "What IE are you using? I heard that major mail providers (like gmail) are willing to cut support of "not latest" IE versions.

Update: a friend of mine told me that support of services will be cut for IE8 (and for XP users, therefore). Gmail and Yandex at least, not sure about others."


won't really change much i think. businesses on XP will be using Outlook anyways, and i dont think there enough private users refusing to upgrade or switch to matter.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 19th Sep 2013 17:15 Edited at: 19th Sep 2013 17:17
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Quote: "i dont think there enough private users refusing to upgrade or switch to matter."

I will not agree until I will see world's windows versions statistics. Anyone can help? It is really interesting.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 19th Sep 2013 19:01
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Quote: "why change?"

Because change is healthy, change exposes you to new ideas.
I didn't think I needed all the extensions I have installed in Firefox, mainly because I was ignorant of them, but they all improve my browsing experience. Finding useful extensions has encouraged me to try out more, and if I don't like an extension I can simply remove it.
That's what sets extensible browsers apart from Internet Explorer; they are objectively better because, whatever your personal preferences, extensible browsers can be tweaked to suit them to an extent that IE cannot.
Familiarity is not a feature. If you embrace extensible browsers, experiment with them and see what they have to offer, then still choose to go back to IE... you must be mad, but that's fine.


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mr Handy
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Posted: 19th Sep 2013 19:42
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Libervurto, long time ago I was FF user until many plugins I needed were incompatible with new FF version so I had to spend hours to find a replace. What the situation is now? Do plugins compatibility depend on FF version?

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 19th Sep 2013 20:29
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Quote: "What IE are you using?"


IE10 on this machine. Probably IE8 on my desktop.

I now know what a bookmark is. I knew it was worth reading this thread.



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MrValentine
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Posted: 19th Sep 2013 21:12
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IE has so called Plugins, they are called Accelerators, and they do wonders...

http://www.iegallery.com/en-gb/addons?callback=true&featuretype=1

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Libervurto
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Posted: 19th Sep 2013 22:19 Edited at: 19th Sep 2013 22:21
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Quote: "IE has so called Plugins, they are called Accelerators, and they do wonders..."

Really? There are a measly 200 of them and six are from the Irish Independent newspaper. They appear to be little more than bookmarks to sites. I don't see anything there that extends the functionality of the browser in even the most basic way.

I tried searching add-ons for "email" and got no results, firefox gives 724 results.
Searching "currency converter" gave 2 results: http://www.iegallery.com/en-gb/Search?q=currency+converter
I'm not sure what these are, since there's so little information and the site wont even give me a screen shot that is large enough for a human to see. They could possibly be extensions, but they look more like links to a currency calculator. My currency converter converts currency conversely by concurrently converting occurrences of foreign currencies to my local currency on the current page as they occur.


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mr Handy
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Posted: 19th Sep 2013 23:20
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AFAIR there are instant translate and instant map on selected text.

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 01:42 Edited at: 20th Sep 2013 01:43
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Quote: "P.S. according the thread title, someone using one browser for TGC and the other for the rest sites."


Lol; I wanted to know what browser people are using to view this forum, not other websites. I wanted to know what kind of browsers people are likely to be using when visiting my devblog.

But it is nice to know what people think in general.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 04:53
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Quote: "I wanted to know what kind of browsers people are likely to be using when visiting my devblog."


Doesn't your host include server side data?
You could always install an analytical suite...

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Mobiius
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 05:31
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I use chrome across all my devices. I like it's cloud synching of bookmarks and browsing history. And it's ability to open the last tabs on one machine, on any other machine in the world.


Now Visit My Website
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Chris Tate
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 11:07
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Quote: "Doesn't your host include server side data?"


Yeah it does.

I was talking about my TGC devglog; the one on this forum; on TGC's server. I already know what browsers people are using to visit my server.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 11:22
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O ok

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 12:48
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Quote: "I wanted to know what kind of browsers people are likely to be using when visiting my devblog"


Looks like the main ones are IE, Chrome and Firefox then.



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Chris Tate
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 13:45 Edited at: 20th Sep 2013 13:47
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? Nope. Most people who posted use Firefox on their desktop. Which means most people are able to view animated PNGs on their main machines amongst other technicalities I needed to determine...

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xCept
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 21:59
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Quote: "I use chrome across all my devices. I like it's cloud synching of bookmarks and browsing history. And it's ability to open the last tabs on one machine, on any other machine in the world."


I was a longtime Firefox user, but made the complete switch to Chrome a few months ago. The sync capabilities of Chrome are much more straight forward and stable than what I experienced with Firefox, mostly due to the fact that you simply have to sign-in using your Google account to sync everything up. It's excellent being able to open Chrome on my iPhone, iPad, PC, Mac etc. and have all my bookmarks and data available, plus be able to open any site that is open on another device.

The biggest factor for switching was the memory consumption of Firefox on Windows. It was not uncommon to have 700MB+ used by Firefox even with few tabs open and most plugins disabled.
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The Zoq2
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 23:15
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The Chrome sync feature is great and really the only reason that im not using firefox. Being able to log into chrome on your computer, phone, school computer and tablet and share the same history/bookmarks is really awesome

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
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Chris Tate
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Posted: 21st Sep 2013 02:10
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I've gotta try that sync feature out one day; I would have thought Chrome would be better for things like that.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 21st Sep 2013 22:26
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Quote: "Phaelax agreed to see web ads as he has no ad blocking software installed. Phaelax agreed that some images may be unsafe as he have read the warning and he visited the target site."

I have adblock installed, what shows on that website were not ads, it was 100% their content and wasn't random. You're still at fault for posting such content on this forum, just accept the fact you posted an inappropriate link and stop trying to defend your improper actions because now you're just being childish about it.

I never said you posted the logout link, it was an example. Your link simply said [href=http://]try to bookmark this[/href] rather than being upfront about what was really behind the link.

Quote: "P.S. this example picture on this anime image channel is safe, but the others are may be not![center]
That is not a warning, especially since you never displayed an example picture. Stating THIS LINK CONTAINS PORN would be a warning.

I know why you posted the link for your example, but it was still a poor choice. Now slap yourself with a trout.


[quote]I will not agree until I will see world's windows versions statistics"

IE Browser stats

Out of the 11% or so of web users using IE, most are running IE8 apparently.

http://zimnox.com
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The Zoq2
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Posted: 21st Sep 2013 22:46
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Quote: "IE Browser stats"


I don't think w3 schools statistics is a safe source for webbrowser statistics since most people that visit it are doing something related to web development. Most people that do that are probably not using IE since you quickly notice how hard it is to work with (Especially older versions)

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
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budokaiman
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Posted: 21st Sep 2013 23:03
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ArsTechnica usually has the best info for browser share.

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/02/internet-explorer-still-growing-as-windows-7-starts-its-decline/


"Giraffe is soft, Gorilla is hard." - Phaelax
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The Zoq2
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Posted: 21st Sep 2013 23:18
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I don't really trust that statistic either since the mobile browser stat seems to be way off. Android is currently "controlling" 78% of the mobile market and Q3 2012, its global marketshare was 75% of all sold phones. 60% usage for mobile safari in january makes no sense with that marketshare.

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
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DevilLiger
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Posted: 21st Sep 2013 23:33
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Chrome. before that was firefox. I switched because somehow I hated the how slow it was compared to Chrome or was it just me?
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budokaiman
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2013 00:06
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Quote: "I don't really trust that statistic either since the mobile browser stat seems to be way off. Android is currently "controlling" 78% of the mobile market and Q3 2012, its global marketshare was 75% of all sold phones. 60% usage for mobile safari in january makes no sense with that marketshare."

That includes iPads and iPod Touch, which I doubt (but don't know for certain) count toward the percent of phones.


"Giraffe is soft, Gorilla is hard." - Phaelax
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mr Handy
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2013 00:24 Edited at: 22nd Sep 2013 00:53
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@Phaelax
Have you offered me a better link, huh? I came up with another, worse, example, that at some point even not an example.
Quote: "Now slap yourself with a trout"

I have a better idea.

Quote: "2013 -- IE 8 -- 4.7 %"

Why don't they post a number of people? 4.7% may be as 47 or 47000!
Quote: "2013 -- Opera -- 1.8 %"

I don't believe it even being Opera hater.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2013 02:39
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Quote: "Does anyone have an experienced answer? Is it because it is cheaper to keep the old system than to replace with a new one?"


Despite what most people are saying here, oftentimes the old software is substantially better than a GUI setup.

At one company I worked for, we accessed some terminal software. We needed to review customer submissions for accuracy and completeness. Doing this in our modern and incredibly usable web-based software would have taken a task that takes 0.5 seconds per submission to scan to a task that would take 3 seconds or more per submission.

So yeah, something could have been done in our modern software to perhaps locally cache all submissions and then you click a couple buttons to go through them, but really, in what way is that an improvement? It's got a pretty interface? That sounds like end-user software, not production-level (useful) software.

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2013 14:22 Edited at: 22nd Sep 2013 14:38
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Quote: "So yeah, something could have been done in our modern software to perhaps locally cache all submissions and then you click a couple buttons to go through them, but really, in what way is that an improvement? It's got a pretty interface? That sounds like end-user software, not production-level (useful) software."


Yeah I understand. They should have used AJAX, that way submission would not have been necessary; your data would go straight into the database as your input it. Your company should have hired me .

Browser integrations are not the fastest; desktop client applications are better for speed. I think touch screen support is good for customer service stations.

Quote: "I don't think w3 schools statistics is a safe source for webbrowser statistics since most people that visit it are doing something related to web development."


I'd be surprised if they were so stupid as to conduct user research pin pointed towards developers and not users.

I am not suprised after 8 years of web hosting, most of my analysis reports show 50-250% firefox population on a monthly basis...



And that is a relatively new 4 month old website on my server. IE usage is some kind of sentimental attachment these ones seem to be blessed with; I've used IE for about 20 minutes this year... because it is installed on a particular terminal at work.

IE is really just the .NET WebBrowser component wrapped in TabControl window with a logo icon on it.

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Dar13
18
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Joined: 12th May 2008
Location: Microsoft VisualStudio 2010 Professional
Posted: 22nd Sep 2013 18:30
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IE10/11 is actually quite comparable in speed with Firefox and Chrome. IE9 is when it stopped being quite as crappy. Of course, it's still way behind when it comes to extensions and plugins compared to Firefox and Chrome, but the base functionality is competitive at least.

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Chris Tate
DBPro Master
17
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Joined: 29th Aug 2008
Location: London, England
Posted: 22nd Sep 2013 19:26
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If at all possible. Post up a link to the speed comparison chart; where did you find the information?

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