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AppGameKit/AppGameKit Studio Showcase / [WIP] Dreadnought Commander

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Clonkex
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Posted: 7th Nov 2013 13:24
Quote: "Well, back on topic ... "


Yeah, sorry about hijacking your thread...

Quote: "AI has come along really quickly as all the path finding and many other structures were already in place. Here I've set up some enemy units (coloured red for now) and I just let them do their thing after a little delay. I don't try and fight back until the last video. In any case I'm hopelessly out gunned! They go about clearing the ship and taking control of it. "


Sounds really cool!

Quote: "It's turning into a game though!"


That's what I've never managed to achieve. I think, with my current project, I have an unusually large amount of persistence and just enough momentum to finish it

Fallout
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Posted: 8th Nov 2013 00:02
Quote: "So it is your own AI system? I am not familiar with the AGK. The battles will be really intense with man and machine combat, asteroids and space survival; sounds good to me."


Yep, all my own system and intensity is my middle name!

Quote: "I have a soft spot for such games which have a financial resource management aspect, is that something in the works, or not quite an aspect of the planned game? On mobile devices combat and resource management it might be a little much for the casual gamer, but that is a wild guess."


I'm not sure about resources yet. There is potential for adding trading elements, weapon purchasing, looting, management of raw materials for repairs, ammo etc. No idea how it's all going to hang together at the moment and those sort of features will be added in stages as I refine and improve the concept. I want it out there to play in some form early in development,

Quote: "Might be handy to be able to pause and tell someone to throw a plasma nade at those bedded-in enemies, they seem to cause a lot of trouble... if it damages the ship, then maybe that's the risk"


That's the plan mate. I'm thinking grenades will be like an unlock ability for marines as they gain Xp. So many possibilities!
JLMoondog
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Posted: 8th Nov 2013 05:56
I've been following every wip video since you started and I just can't wait to play. This game is a mix between Star Commander for Android and Space Engineers for PC. Epic combination lol.

I'm really impressed with the 3D and physics.

Looking forward to more progress.

Inmortalis Nox
Clonkex
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Posted: 9th Nov 2013 20:57
Quote: "I've been following every wip video since you started and I just can't wait to play. This game is a mix between Star Commander for Android and Space Engineers for PC. Epic combination lol."


My brother would tell you furiously that it's Star Command, not Star Commander He likes the game a lot (I mean, so do I, but not as much as he)

Quote: "Looking forward to more progress."


Me too

Fallout
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Posted: 12th Nov 2013 10:19
Thanks gents. Well here comes the new progress ...

I've been working on quite a few things under the covers. I've been trying to improve efficiency with array accessing, bug fixes, rewrote my collision algorithm to use the Separating Axis theorem and lots of other little tweaks. Apart from that I've been working hard on the AI.

AI will now correctly crew a ship, navigate, defend it, get out of each other's way etc. It all feels pretty good. I've also added hand to hand fighting for the crew (not seen in this vid though) and started ship control AI. The AI will now use the weapon turrets and target enemies. The next step will be flight control.

In this vid I attempt to assault the repair station and along the way learnt a lot about how to play my own game.

The Zoq2
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Posted: 12th Nov 2013 18:08
Wow, that is really cool, it keeps getting better with each update.

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 14th Nov 2013 13:37
Were is Rambo when you need him.

What happens when you defeat the enemy without destroying the ship? Do you get to keep the ship?

Fallout
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Posted: 14th Nov 2013 15:08
If you like. You can log into any ship and take control of it, so long as you can fight you way to the commander's seat.
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Posted: 19th Nov 2013 12:06 Edited at: 19th Nov 2013 12:08
Just posting to upload a banner for my sig. (Testing)

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Fallout
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Posted: 19th Nov 2013 20:36
I've been doing a lot of work on the ship AI. It's really damn hard to be honest. Trying to program logic so ships consider their direction of travel and orientation, stopping distances with different types of trust, end points etc. is tough enough, but then they have to second guess where you're going to be while avoiding moving asteroids and other ships and giving their weapons the best chance of pointing at you.

Basically it still needs a lot of work but it's behaving quite intelligently now. I've had fun disabling their weapons and just flying through asteroid fields with my new AI wingmen. I was recording vids for fun, then by sheer chance Steppenwolf came on and it was so cool to fly to I thought I'd upload the vid.



MikeMax
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Posted: 20th Nov 2013 05:16
Can't see this last youtube video in my country (france) due to music copyright

--------------
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Posted: 20th Nov 2013 09:24
Hi Mike. Don't worry, you're not missing much. I'll upload a better vid later in the week and take this one down. Cheers.

Fallout
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2013 11:39
Ok here's the new AI progress. I've been working solidly on this for several days and redesigned it a few times too. There are loads of ways to track paths through dynamic environments, but in the end I went for a fairly simple view arc theorem.

Ships decide where they want to be and plot a point. Using a collision cone they decide if the path to that point is blocked or likely to soon be blocked (moving asteroids, friendly units etc), then move the cone to an alternative, taking into account speed and facing angle, until there is a collision free route. They then calculate which direction they need to face to scrub off speed and thrust to correct course.

It's taking a lot of work and tweaking but I'm happy enough with it now. Ships are not infallible and will still crash, which is what I want, but 95% of the time they'll navigate successfully and be all up on yo' ash!

Vid may be a bit dull as it's quite long. I've left some debug objects in place to give you an idea of what's happening. The good news is though, now most of the main mechanisms are done and I can start turning this into an actual playable game.



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Posted: 22nd Nov 2013 15:45 Edited at: 22nd Nov 2013 15:45
I'm working on the concept of levels now. Not 100% sure how I'm going to do it but I have a few principles ...

1. Levels will be randomised. That's how I like games. It needs to be different every time you play, so different ships to face, different densities of debris, different random encounters etc. It also means I don't need to spend ages hand placing asteroids and ships.

2. I'm thinking about a sector based approach. Each area of space is a set size and you travel into it, do whatever you want to do, and then exit the sector. Sectors are squares, so exiting sector 15,18 at the top will put you into sector 15,19.

To avoid arduous travelling I will introduce the concept of jump gates, or similar and minimize the amount of pointless sectors, making each one significant.

This approach has a bunch of benefits. It allows you to make your own way through space, find safe routes past hostile areas, explore and make the game feel free, while allowing me to tightly control active game assets and ensure performance. It also allows you to leg it! Whether I save the state of sectors or not, I'm not sure yet.

3. Sectors will be defined with this red boarder approach. You fly into the exit zone and then have a certain amount of time before you are 'jumped' into the next sector.

4. The game is saved at each sector boundary, allowing you to resume if you die (or choose to restart) whenever you jump into a sector. Upon resuming, if you decide the sector is too hard, you can just turn around and fly out of the sector and try another route. This means there's no need for a manual save interface.

5. Enemy ships will stay in the sector but asteroids and floating debris/assets/treasures can wrap around and float back into the far side of the sector, ensuring that if you spot some treasure in a sector it'll always be there for later scavenging.



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Fallout
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Posted: 27th Nov 2013 12:51 Edited at: 27th Nov 2013 12:51
A few more screenies. This is how I'm dealing with changing sector. You fly into the 'Exitzone' and a timer counts down. If you're in there for 5 seconds you jump to the next sector. The transition period should allow you to fly in accidentally and escape if necessary.



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Fallout
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Posted: 27th Nov 2013 12:57 Edited at: 27th Nov 2013 12:59
I've also made a mock up for the galactic map. It'll probably need some tweaking to make it look just right, but this is it as it stands.

The play area is divided into sectors. 10x10 gives you 100 sectors to explore, so is a pretty huge map. You'll start randomly on the grid and all other sectors will be uncharted. As and when you travel to sectors they will be charted and marked friendly, hostile or neutral, depending on what you find there.

You can select any sector to find out all known data about its occupants, and from that you can infer the happenings and whether you want to visit it again or not. Known data can be wildly inaccurate as sectors will be changing over the course of the game.

In this example we can see the selected sector is marked hostile because enemies are present. It has a jump gate, which means you'll be able to fly into it and jump to other sectors with jump gates. It has a list of the known ships in the area, so from this we can probably infer enemies are assaulting a prison ship (trying to get their crew back, per chance?!). Inactive ships are ships with no crew, or damaged and unable to fly, so ripe for pillaging. Then you get data on asteroid density at the bottom, which is another potential danger.

I'm not sure how I feel about the look, so happy to receive comments and crits.



JPG format and scaling down has slightly fudged text contrast and readability.

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JLMoondog
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Posted: 27th Nov 2013 14:16
I prefer grid maps when playing these types of games, they allow me to systematically explore areas. I'm one of those peps that has to explore everything in one area before moving on haha.

As for graphics, they're to be desired. In my opinion.

I think you should make it look more tactical looking, to keep in theme with your game mechanics. I'd give it a holographic look, maybe even translate it to a 3d map that you can scroll around, with holographic symbols for known sectors that emerge from their grid space. With your ship displayed. Have some holo-lasers shooting up at the objects to give it that projection feel.

Then the side panel display should be part of the 'console'. Use that pixelated font you always see in gritty sci-fi movies.

Just my thoughts!

Always love your updates.

Inmortalis Nox
Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 28th Nov 2013 23:52
Looks really great and love wath you are doing with agk

And about performance so do I belive they haven't fixed the object culling or offscreen still ?

When I started my own dungeon game when they first introduced 3d so did an even simple and plain dungeon make agk slow.

I solved it with my own culling system using sprites assigned to each 3d object.( you could use one for each ship )
And an collider sprite for the camera view to set objects visible or not.
Its extremely simple and simply see all the 3d as an topdown view and scale the collider sprite according to how much you zoom in to the playfield.

The cull map with the sprites can be done with simple dummy sprites far offscreen so they don't impact on performance.

Android 2.3 , ZTE Skate , 480x800 , 800 mhz , Samsung Galaxy Y , 240x320 , 832 mhz , Sony ericson arc 480x854 , 1 ghz
Android 4.0 , Dmtech 3g 9738B , 1024x768 , 9.7 inches , 1.2 ghz
Fallout
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Posted: 29th Nov 2013 08:47
@Josh

I agree all the graphics aren't great. I'm happy with the in game graphics as I can still improve those myself and I can't up the poly count without losing performance for mobile devices. I'll just add more variety and detail to ships when I finally hit the polishing stage.

As for the GUI, it's something that could benefit from a more cohesive design and an artists touch. What I'm hoping to do is get the game online and if it prove popular, keep improving it with updates and subsequent versions. One of those would be a GUI overhaul, perhaps with help. For the time being I'll just redesign the map screen as the other elements are fairly minor and ok for now.

@Cliff

That's a pretty neat idea. I've coded my own culling system for detecting ships on screen, but right now it's turned off as the calculations for different resolutions are out of whack. It's definitely possible to use your sprite approach as my explosions are sprites and are scaled correctly to the 3D scene so I'll bear that one in mind. Cheers.

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Posted: 29th Nov 2013 19:30 Edited at: 29th Nov 2013 19:30
Here's a more sci-fi approach. I'm happier with this and happier it's better though concede it's not perfect. I've spent enough time on this now though, so I'll implement this and look to update all the 2D in the future if the game proves popular.



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Van B
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Posted: 29th Nov 2013 19:43
I like it, it should look good on tablets too.

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 29th Nov 2013 19:51
Looks quite.. what's the expression 'Science-Fictiony'.

It looks good and will only get better over time as GUI improvements tend to be ongoing.

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Posted: 29th Nov 2013 23:54
Thanks guys. I'll implement some animation and play with the transparency etc. when I get it into the game. Should hopefully bring it to life. I think I'll go back and address the other GUI elements too and see if I can make them more cohesive.

JLMoondog
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Posted: 30th Nov 2013 03:06
Ah much better look!

Inmortalis Nox
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Posted: 5th Dec 2013 17:42
Ok, here's quick video of the map feature implemented.

In order to get this done as I wanted to I had to make a load of work under the covers. The whole map is now persistent, so everything is saved away when you move from sector to sector. What I'll do is randomize additional entities/enemies etc. into visited sectors when you return to keep it alive plus do some high level game/story type stuff so the map changes over the course of the game.



Unfortunately the wicked little underground drum'n'bass tune which makes good backing music has now appeared on iTunes and as such now matches third party content on YouTube. Sorry to mobile users. I might just bite the bullet and write my own little atmospheric track for the vids from now on.

JLMoondog
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Posted: 5th Dec 2013 18:26
That is awesome! Think we'll be able to jump between sectors we've already explored? Like a warp drive?

Shadow of the Ramen is Coming!!
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Posted: 5th Dec 2013 21:31
Cheers dude. The plan is that you have to navigate through sectors but you'll be able to take shortcuts via jump gates in certain sectors. I'll set it up so that you only have to navigate through 3 or 4 sectors to get anywhere once you've found all the jump gates. I want the facility to create unexpected events and missions by placing them along mission routes in random sectors, plus I want to add risk to travelling anywhere rather than safely jumping between safe sectors.

The main issue at the moment is combat is really difficult and not that fun. Automated turrets make 'dogfighting' dull so the plan is to work on that next. I'm going to introduce a bunch of forward firing only weapons which are fired manually with a fire button and the auto turrets can be more advanced weapons. Then I'll need to work more on the AI to dog fight more interestingly.

Still loads to do. It's never ending!

Van B
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Posted: 6th Dec 2013 11:23 Edited at: 6th Dec 2013 11:25
Maybe if the turrets could do charge shots and have assigned priorities it might make things less mechanical without needing a whole load of AI programming.

Like, if your ship has 3 turrets, 1 in the middle, one on each side - the side turrets could be set to target and fire at fighters within range (or a crew member controlling the turret). Then, with the middle turret, maybe it fires photon torpedo's, and takes 10 seconds to charge up fully. So you'd have the side turrets taking on fighters, while you designate the priority targets, like weapon and shield systems for example. Maybe just having an alternate fire mode on some turrets, pulse or charge shot on bigger turrets, and the option to target the closest enemy in range rather than a target on a ship. Also, there's always the old weapon power vs shield power balancing act - might be cool to have a monster weapon that needs a lot of power, but is utterly devastating.

I am the one who knocks...
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Posted: 6th Dec 2013 14:07
Good ideas mate. The main issue is that you never really feel in control. You feel a bit detached and you spend all your time just flying up to ships, targeting their guns (as if you don't they'll kill you pretty quick), and then pointing at them and hoping you take out their guns first. There's no real benefit to dog fighting or doing high speed passes because you will just hit different bits of armour and not hit the component you want to, or at higher speeds you just miss completely as currently the turrets don't 'lead' the target.

I think charging weapons is a very good idea for some powerful energy weapon, but I still think I need to work on the dog fighting mechanic so battles are different and engaging. What I really want is for players to be chasing to try and get a shot off, and using asteroids to lose homing missile tails, and various other things.

It's all just a balancing act. I've been playing Dead Nation recently, and while this is a strategy game as much as arcade game, I feel I need to capture at least some of the frantic battle fun of that kind of game.

Van B
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Posted: 6th Dec 2013 14:30 Edited at: 6th Dec 2013 14:32
It's a shame we don't have 100 slaves to just test stuff and tell us what works best - game design by slave committee perhaps.
I guess it's the same for any indie... I'm lucky if I can get 10 people to test a pre-release, I can always count on my nephews, they love games and especially love games that nobody else got to play yet - but having 5 or 6 people usually just means you have 5 or 6 different opinions, if it was more like 100, then we can at least measure and compare gameplay tweaks.
Myself and Cliff will find that pretty soon I think with EDS, balancing it will be hellish, and it's just changing stats on items and enemies, it'll still take a long time to keep a majority happy.

I'm guessing it's one of those projects that you intend to test something for a couple of minutes, then something interesting happens, and you end up playing for an hour - AI can get like that, sometimes it's just too fascinating to sit back and watch your hard work fight for its life.

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Posted: 7th Dec 2013 00:32
Really liking the progress on this.

I downloaded Space Squadron a few weeks back and I really like it. It reminded me of a table top strategy game called Full Thrust.

I've been reading a series of novels called The Lost Fleet by Jack Campbell. In them they have these massive space battles and it seems that it's the positioning of the spaceships that is the tactical element and not the shooting itself. They're a decent read and they might give you some ideas.

I've not read every post in this thread so applogies if some of these have been mentioned:

The player has to actively use counter measures, such as:
- decoys to lure homeing missiles away (these would be range dependant so the further away they are from a missile the less effect they have
- "scatter gun" to shoot missiles down

In full thrust, each ship has a number of targeting computers. For each targeting computer the ship can "target" an opposing ship and then fire as many weapons at the target as they have. The player would then have to choose which enemy ships to shoot at.

Give some spaceships mine laying capabilities.

The spaceship equivalent of a flash bang (disrupts sensors for a brief period of time).

The spaceship equivalent of a chaff grenade (blocks line of sight).

Quote: "There's no real benefit to dog fighting or doing high speed passes because you will just hit different bits of armour and not hit the component you want to, or at higher speeds you just miss completely as currently the turrets don't 'lead' the target."


Maybe what you need is a mix of weapons that are better for different speeds and ranges. For instance, you could have a "scatter gun" (mentioned this again but they also get use in The Lost Fleet novels) that allows you to score hits at short ranges but high speeds, but each shot does relatively little damage. You could then have a "sniper gun" that's good at long range but low speeds.

Just out of interest, for projectile weapons (I'm thinking the space ship equivalent of a bullet) are you using the relative speed of the project and target ship? So for instance, if you go head on into a "bullet" it does more damage then if you hit it side on?

I don't know if any of these are helpful. If I can think of anything else I let you know.

one of these days I'll come up with a better signature
Clonkex
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Posted: 16th Dec 2013 06:55
I really think the new starmap is far better than the first version, but I also really think it needs to be considerably darker-themed. In other words, it's somewhat blinding and hard to read because the light blue is too close to the white text. Here, just editing the contrast and brightness, this is what I think it needs to be like:



This is with the blue removed somewhat (I think it needs to be a bit more grey):



Just my 2 cents

Other than that it's shaping up to be a really awesome mobile game

JLMoondog
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Posted: 10th Jan 2014 19:22
Why no updates!?

Van B
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Posted: 10th Jan 2014 19:54
Could be...

a) Extensive hangover from new years.

b) Time off work so in deep development mode.

c) Stuck in an infinite loop.

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 11th Jan 2014 18:14
I vote for A

The Zoq2
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Posted: 11th Jan 2014 21:29
Why not all of the above?

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
Chris Tate
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Posted: 13th Jan 2014 11:48
Because I personally identify and align with answer A.

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Posted: 15th Jan 2014 11:55
Unfortunately this stuff doesn't pay the bills and it's on hold while I do some freelance work. I will return to it when I am filthy rich again and I can get my gold toilet back from the pawn brokers.

baxslash
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Gold scuffs too easy, you should try Titanium like mine...

oct(31) = dec(25)
Chris Tate
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Posted: 18th Jan 2014 00:53
Good luck with the funds.

Let us know what you do for freelance work, if you are interested finding more clients we could recommend your services.

Clonkex
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Posted: 25th Jan 2014 02:46
Quote: "I will return to it when I am filthy rich again and I can get my gold toilet back from the pawn brokers."


Quote: "Gold scuffs too easy, you should try Titanium like mine..."


I find some titanium alloys are lighter (easier installation), and when combined with an oleophobic coating, my loo stays scuff- and fingerprint-free for months.

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Posted: 25th Jan 2014 10:10
Quote: "Let us know what you do for freelance work, if you are interested finding more clients we could recommend your services."


Well at the moment I'm helping with Reloaded which is a really interesting opportunity. Otherwise I suppose any game dev related work would be up my street!

And regarding loos, gold may scuff but it's impossible to stain!

Chris Tate
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Posted: 28th Jan 2014 19:10
That's good; something game-development related; something good for the CV. Shame I couldn't get much time to help much with FPSCR although I will put my AI terrain project up as a kind of WIP snippet library soon so people can use it how they want; and hopefully finish it off.

Looking forward to seeing more Dreadnought updates later on; it has been a real highlight so far. I often wish games development was not as time consuming as it is; but then anything elegant is brought together over time. Once you enjoy the work, it makes up for the long wait.

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