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Geek Culture / Windows 10

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bitJericho
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2014 04:56 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2014 04:56
Who's on Windows 10 already?



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Seditious
9
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2014 04:58
Errr what happened to Windows 9?
bitJericho
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2014 05:00 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2014 05:01
Some say 7 ate 9.

Some say it's because Windows 9 is so similar to Windows 98 that some apps acted up (incorrectly checking the left hand side of the string).

I think by some apps they mean DBP

Phaelax
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2014 07:54
How is 10 any different than 8? And more importantly, why would I want to leave 7?

MrValentine
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Playing: FFVII
Posted: 3rd Oct 2014 12:28
Quote: "why would I want to leave 7?"


You have plenty of time to stick with it... http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle


Forgot the preview was out, downloading now, will run it in Hyper-V though...

Thanks for the reminder bitJericho...

I wonder if The VS updates for Windows 10 is available now?

TheComet
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2014 12:57 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2014 13:02
This seems to be the reason why they skipped Windows 9:
https://twitter.com/mikko/status/517358472715710465

This seems to have some truth to it if we search for code looking like that:
https://searchcode.com/?q=startswith%28%22windows+9%22%29

I like offending people. People who get offended should be offended. -- Linus Torvalds
bitJericho
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2014 14:38 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2014 14:47
It's just a rumor, MS hasn't said what the reason is. It sounds legit tho.

Quote: " How is 10 any different than 8? And more importantly, why would I want to leave 7?"


Because you're a technology enthusiast. It'd be like a mac lover not wanting to try the new Mac OSX before everyone else. A racer that doesn't want to drive the newest race car. An astronaut that doesn't want to explore the furthest planet! Enjoy the new things happening in our industry!

Quote: "I wonder if The VS updates for Windows 10 is available now?"


Yep, visual studio 14!

http://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/downloads/visual-studio-14-ctp-vs.aspx

Indicium
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2014 15:00
Quote: "Because you're a technology enthusiast. It'd be like a mac lover not wanting to try the new Mac OSX before everyone else. A racer that doesn't want to drive the newest race car. An astronaut that doesn't want to explore the furthest planet! Enjoy the new things happening in our industry!
"


He has spoken!
Clonkex
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2014 16:45
Well would you look at that. Just today my brother discovered Tek Syndicate's Windows 10: It's Actually Not Terrible video on YouTube. It was the first I'd heard of Windows 10. Talk about coincidence.

Now, before I continue, I have to make this clear: I loved Windows XP, hated Windows Vista, love Windows 7 and hate Windows 8.

Quote: "Who's on Windows 10 already?"


Not me, not yet. I've just finished (as in, 2 seconds ago) downloading the Tech Preview and I intend to set it up on VirtualBox (tomorrow - too tired tonight) and explore it

Quote: "Some say it's because Windows 9 is so similar to Windows 98 that some apps acted up (incorrectly checking the left hand side of the string)."


That's what I heard too, and it does indeed sound legit, but I also heard a rumour that it was to do with OEM licensing, where Win8.1 was actually called Windows 9 in the licenses. Either way Windows 10 sounds further away from Windows 8, which can only be a good thing

Quote: "How is 10 any different than 8? And more importantly, why would I want to leave 7?"


WELL. Quite a lot, actually.

For a little while now I've been getting progressively more upset at M$ for ruining Windows with Win8. I love Win7 and believe it to be one of the best OSs ever made, but since using Win8 I'd begun to feel like M$ would never make an OS as good as Win7 again. This was disappointing because it meant I'd eventually (support for Win7 will end one day) move to Win8-style crappiness or switch to a different OS altogether (nooooooo). I'd heard the start menu was coming back in Windows 9, and there was a glimmer of hope, but it was overshadowed with doubt.

And then today I found out about Windows 10. WOW. I won't say it's perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but M$ has listened and made great strides forward (or backward as some might say ). Here's a list of all the things I know of that have changed since Win8 that mean I'm not instantly horrified by Win10:

- The Start menu is back with a vengeance! It's got a Win7-style list of recent/pinned programs on the left with a customisable Win8-style panel of live tiles (which can be done away with by simply removing all the tiles if you're not a fan of them).
- Metro/Modern apps (now called Universal apps AFAIK) now launch on top of a normal desktop and have a title bar with close, minimize and maximise/restore buttons AND can be resized!
- The Win8 Start Screen is gone!! (Although you can still turn it on if you really want that horror)
- Win10 responds automatically to whether you have a touch device or whether you have a keyboard and mouse plugged in! Finally, useless touch features are gone on a desktop device!
- The file explorer is neater and less cluttered! Yes, they still insist on that silly ribbon bar thing, but it's done properly this time.

I hear you ask, "But what you're describing is Windows 7; why would I want to change?" Well, here are some reasons Windows 10 has hope for becoming a worthy successor to Win7:

- It's faster. Simply put, Win10 has the speed and battery-life increases of Windows 8 without the attached horrors.
- It's a tick-less kernel. Yup, they brought that over from Win8 too (and yes, I realise this is connected to "It's faster" but I felt it needed its own bulletpoint)
- Virtual desktops! Yes, something MacOSX has had for years has finally arrived in Windows. Built-in virtual desktops could be a very, very useful feature. In the current tech preview it's ever-so-slightly wonky, but that'll be fixed.
- Better task switching.
- Better window snapping. You can now snap your windows into quarters of the screen if you so desire.
- A revamped command prompt (for the first time in years!). FINALLY we can use keyboard shortcuts to paste commands in without having to right-click!
- The Start menu can be used to search the internet in the same search box that Win7 has. This could be cool, but for those people that will probably hate the idea (I'm verging on dislike) you can disable internet searching.
- More that I've forgotten.

It's not all great, though. Here's some things I dislike:

- The Charms bar still exists. I couldn't care less if it appeared on a touch device with no keyboard/mouse (in fact it may even be nice to use), but on a desktop system is crappy and annoying.
- It's still fairly touch-centric. This is an issue I expect to disappear pretty quickly as M$ finishes separating all the Win8 touch stuff to only be enabled on touch devices.
- Plenty more that I'm too tired to remember.

I'm going to bed now, but tomorrow I'll be starting up VirtualBox and testing out the tech preview of Windows 10. I'll give you my first impressions and probably add a lot to the list of things I dislike

The Zoq2
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2014 17:38
I have not tried win 10 yet and I probably won't anytime soon, linux just suits me a lot better than windows.

Regarding the name, MS officially says they wanted to call it windows one since it "unites" windows phone and desktop but they didn't want to confuse it with windows 1. That makes very little sense, especially when they did the exact oposite with xbox one.

The other story is that as someone stated, lots of programs check for the string "windows 9" when determening if the current OS is windows 95 or 98

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
Phaelax
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2014 21:11 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2014 21:11
Maybe someone just made a typo in the developer newsletter and when they read Windows nein they just skipped up to 10.

So is this Windows Ten or Windows Two?

TheComet
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2014 23:55
Maybe they knew Windows 9 was doomed to fail anyway since every second version of Windows sucks, so they just skipped ahead?

I like offending people. People who get offended should be offended. -- Linus Torvalds
gamerboots
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Posted: 4th Oct 2014 00:33 Edited at: 4th Oct 2014 02:49
In case you haven't noticed, every other OS is a disaster.
98=stable
ME=ouch!
xp=good
vista=horrid
win7=AWEsome
win8=horrible
Anyway, I don't know about the rest of you but I"m sticking with win7. Its brought me more joy than all the rest and as I'm a firm believer in not fixing things that aren't broke that kind of cements my decision to not buy another pc for quite some time..

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ZombieChowNom
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Posted: 4th Oct 2014 01:01
Waht they just skip the 9???

They may as well call it the Windows 360
bitJericho
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Posted: 4th Oct 2014 02:07 Edited at: 4th Oct 2014 02:08
gamerboots what are you talking about? Windows 2000 is heralded as one of the best Windows OSes ever launched. Not to mention, you're missing a few versions:

1
2
3
95
NT 4
98=stable
2000=ouch!
ME
xp=good
2003
vista=horrid
2008
win7=AWEsome
2012
win8=horrible
2013
win10

Clonkex
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Posted: 4th Oct 2014 02:20
Quote: "1
2
3
95
NT 4"


No one counts those.

Quote: "ME"


This one was poorly received and not used much at all.

Quote: "2003
2008
2012
2013"


These are Server editions of Windows and don't count.

Quote: "win10"


He was implying that Win10 would be the next good one so didn't need to list it in the history.

gamerboots
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Posted: 4th Oct 2014 02:48
Quote: "gamerboots what are you talking about? Windows 2000.."

2000=ME (sorry should have been more specific - post edited)

Quote: "This one was poorly received and not used much at all."


When it was received it was quickly taken back to the store to get a refund.

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Indicium
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Posted: 4th Oct 2014 02:53
Quote: "2000=ME "


It doesn't though...
bitJericho
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Posted: 4th Oct 2014 03:18 Edited at: 4th Oct 2014 03:21
Yeah windows ME was the next progression from windows 98se. Windows 2000 was the next progression after nt4, and the predecessor to the now beloved, but then hated, XP. If you throw out the server versions, which is a bit unfair considering 2000 had directx and was awesome, then you can do the following:

95=good
98=stable
ME=horrid
xp=good
vista=horrid
win7=AWEsome
win8=horrible
win10=???

Still doesn't make a lot of sense, since the first two on the list were highly rated. Also, XP was absolutely hated until around SP2 where it suddenly became revered. Also, vista and win8 I quite liked. Never liked that demon ME though. I don't think anybody did.

gamerboots
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Posted: 4th Oct 2014 03:31 Edited at: 4th Oct 2014 03:33
Seems like after 98 that they switched gears and decided to do every other version using the public as guinea pigs. But I do agree that the service pack in XP made a big difference.

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Clonkex
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Posted: 4th Oct 2014 04:18
Quote: "Also, XP was absolutely hated until around SP2 where it suddenly became revered."


Really?? I've only ever used SP3, so I wouldn't know.

Phaelax
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Posted: 4th Oct 2014 16:51
I didn't start using XP until late 2007, Win2kPro before that.

Clonkex
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Posted: 4th Oct 2014 17:04
Quote: "I didn't start using XP until late 2007, Win2kPro before that."


I used 98SE, then 2000 then XP then 7. Our household as a whole has used Vista and 8 as well.

Chris Tate
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Posted: 4th Oct 2014 18:10 Edited at: 4th Oct 2014 18:11
3.0=OK
3.1=nice, but I prefered DOS
95=birth of the start menu
98=a brilliant update
2000=98 on steroids + NT features
ME=shockingly bugtastic
xp=my most used OS and all time favourite until 7
vista=refused to install it
win7=the best (Installed on most of my machines)
win8=refused to install it
win 8.1= (Installed on my main machine) win7 with a silly start menu. It has few improved file management features however.

gamerboots
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Posted: 4th Oct 2014 20:07
Vista did have two great advantages that I can think of. It worked well with FPSC (classic) and DBP. I got extremely high frame rates which made it great for either one of those apps, but that was all it was really good for. Finally, after a few months of dealing with it I sold it and got me an XP.

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Seditious
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Posted: 4th Oct 2014 21:01
I used Vista for a long time and thought it was pretty good, although I liked XP better. I'm using 7 now and I'm pretty happy with it. Not sure I'll 'upgrade' until I really have to.
Clonkex
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Posted: 5th Oct 2014 03:57
Quote: "I used Vista for a long time and thought it was pretty good"


You are one of very, very few people, my friend.

Seditious
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Posted: 5th Oct 2014 05:03
Quote: "You are one of very, very few people, my friend."


Well, since I had previously used Linux and knew something about file privileges I knew how to avoid the almost constant UAC prompts some users were getting.
Aertic
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Posted: 5th Oct 2014 05:05
...
YEAR OF THE LINUX DESKTOP!
YEAR OF THE LINUX DESKTOP!!
YEAR OF THE LINUX DESKTOP!!!
YEAR OF THE LINUX DESKTOP!!!!
YEAR OF THE LINUX DESKTOP!!!!!

Agent Dink
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Posted: 5th Oct 2014 07:40
I don't understand why people complain about UAC WHEN YOU CAN JUST TURN IT OFF.

Vista was decent. Not perfect, surely, but after the first service pack it was stable and pretty. Windows 7 took it to the next level and made it faster.

Chris Tate
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Posted: 5th Oct 2014 10:19
In one of my social circles I was the go to guy for fixing ones computer. I will never forget that week when 6 people phoned for 'Vista-Help'. Most of them had to send the machines back to the manufacturer. There were too many customer complaints at my work place at the time regarding Vista PC's they had purchased.

I think most people have some kind of a Vista-Story to tell their children when they are born.

Rudolpho
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Posted: 5th Oct 2014 12:26
I wasn't aware that this was out yet, so thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Downloading for a virtual machine test run later tonight

Although I doubt I will fully migrate from Windows 7 for quite some time if ever unless there are significant improvements and a complete lack of declines of functionality. Also if it is cloud based aka. "Microsoft owns your files" I'm gone forever... True you don't need to use it, but that seemed to be pretty tightly integrated into Windows 8 and if the features to stream upload your data is in the OS itself what is to say this cannot be used without my consent, be it by M$ or someone else...


"Why do programmers get Halloween and Christmas mixed up?"
gamerboots
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Posted: 5th Oct 2014 12:58
Quote: "I think most people have some kind of a Vista-Story to tell their children when they are born."


No, it was so horrid that they probably won't even bother telling them about it.

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Rudolpho
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Posted: 5th Oct 2014 14:09 Edited at: 5th Oct 2014 14:09
@Clonkex: Did you manage to install it on VirtualBox?
My installation went out the window () after installing the guest additions. I guess I could do without them but I don't really want a framed 4:3 window on my 16:9 screen.


"Why do programmers get Halloween and Christmas mixed up?"
Phaelax
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Posted: 6th Oct 2014 00:52
Using Windows 10? Then read this.

TheComet
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Posted: 6th Oct 2014 01:27
Quote: "Using Windows 10? Then read this."


It's not permanent:
Quote: "We must stress that the feedback being collected in the Windows Technical Preview will only occur within the Technical Preview period. Once Windows 10 launches to the public as RTM, the data Microsoft collects will be removed from the operating system. This isn't a permanent feature within Windows 10, and therefore should not be a concern to your average Joe."


Even so, I don't trust MS in the slightest.

I like offending people. People who get offended should be offended. -- Linus Torvalds
Clonkex
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Posted: 6th Oct 2014 01:43 Edited at: 6th Oct 2014 01:43
Quote: "@Clonkex: Did you manage to install it on VirtualBox?
My installation went out the window () after installing the guest additions. I guess I could do without them but I don't really want a framed 4:3 window on my 16:9 screen."


Yup, but I couldn't install guest additions. Apparently you can make them install if you run the installer in compatibility mode for Win8, but the drivers don't actually work once installed so there's no point.

Instead, I downloaded VMware Player (go to http://www.vmware.com/au/products/player, scroll down to the bottom and find where it says in tiny letters "Download VMware Player for personal use" and download the free edition). It worked beautifully (just set it to Windows 8 x64), but make sure you install its version of the guest additions called 'VMware tools'.

Quote: "Using Windows 10? Then read this."


Thanks, but pff it's a tech preview; we complained they weren't listening with Win8, now they are. I'm not worried about what they can collect. Put it this way: If you're worried about the NSA getting your data, you better not use the internet at all; no emails, no FB, no forums, nada.

Quote: "Even so, I don't trust MS in the slightest."


Yeah but you don't trust anyone, Comet.

Rudolpho
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Posted: 6th Oct 2014 11:09 Edited at: 6th Oct 2014 11:13
Quote: "Instead, I downloaded VMware Player (go to http://www.vmware.com/au/products/player, scroll down to the bottom and find where it says in tiny letters "Download VMware Player for personal use" and download the free edition). It worked beautifully (just set it to Windows 8 x64), but make sure you install its version of the guest additions called 'VMware tools'."

I took a look at it, but it seems it is only designed for emulating x86?
Also there are all kinds of arbitrary limitations on RAM, VRAM, disk space etc. imposed by the free version? Or did I manage to find the wrong product perchance?

Edit: oh, seems I misread the 8Tb disk size limitation as 8Gb, that's more than reasonable, I'll just give it a try with the x64 image and see what happens


"Why do programmers get Halloween and Christmas mixed up?"
Clonkex
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Posted: 6th Oct 2014 15:30
Quote: "I took a look at it, but it seems it is only designed for emulating x86?
Also there are all kinds of arbitrary limitations on RAM, VRAM, disk space etc. imposed by the free version?"


I didn't notice any limitations and it definitely supported x64...

Quote: "Or did I manage to find the wrong product perchance?"


Probably. Their website is not great. Just go to that page, search for "Download VMware Player for personal use" and click the word "Download" (it's the link).

MrValentine
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Posted: 6th Oct 2014 15:41
Wow are you really struggling to get it running in a virtual box?

Not a single issue with Hyper-V

I love the multiple desktops thing, but might be one of the few things I feel I can do without but it can be very useful for others...

Love the resize of Metro apps... wondering what mine will look like, but sadly I did not bother setting up the network, but my first impressions were predictably positive, it is super fast even on single core [Forgot to set the core access to 4 corrected and it was still fast ] and 2GB RAM! [Albeit it was allowed flexibility!]

Nevertheless it was super fast, would hazard at saying it was faster than Windows 8.1! [SSD, will not use an OS on old HDD's ever again]

But, I wonder if there will be a special update option for Surface Pro users... hmm...

wattywatts
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Posted: 6th Oct 2014 17:19
Quote: "But, I wonder if there will be a special update option for Surface Pro users... hmm..."

I'd be interested in this, although I'm pretty happy with the 8.0 + Classic shell combo for the most part.
Dar13
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Posted: 6th Oct 2014 19:06
Quote: " Wow are you really struggling to get it running in a virtual box?"

Certain vendors use specific drivers for Windows operating systems(VMWare in particular). A friend of mine had an issue installing Windows 10 on VMWare Workstation 10 but I don't know the details.

Clonkex
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Posted: 7th Oct 2014 02:17
Quote: "Wow are you really struggling to get it running in a virtual box?"


I had no issue at all once I switched to VMware from VirtualBox.

Rudolpho
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Posted: 8th Oct 2014 12:46
Quote: "Wow are you really struggling to get it running in a virtual box?"

Not to get it to run, just getting it to run the way I want it to (such as in proper 16:9 1080p fullscreen mode and booting from my SSD while storing custom files on a regular magnetic disk).

While it has a lot less settings options the VMWare Player did indeed work, so thanks for that Clonkex.


"Why do programmers get Halloween and Christmas mixed up?"
Clonkex
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Posted: 10th Oct 2014 14:12
Quote: "such as in proper 16:9 1080p fullscreen mode"


Ah well you'd need the guest additions for that and they don't currently work, so...

Quote: "While it has a lot less settings options the VMWare Player did indeed work, so thanks for that Clonkex."


You're very welcome

bitJericho
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Posted: 15th Oct 2014 01:01 Edited at: 15th Oct 2014 01:01
So I've been running Windows 10 exclusively on bare metal since the 2nd and it runs just as well as 8.1 for me. For anyone on the fence about trying it out full time, I say give it a try!

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 15th Oct 2014 01:07 Edited at: 15th Oct 2014 01:07
Quote: "Microsoft collects information about you, your devices, applications and networks, and your use of those devices, applications and networks. Examples of data we collect include your name, email address, preferences and interests; browsing, search and file history; phone call and SMS data; device configuration and sensor data; and application usage."


Quote: "For anyone on the fence about trying it out full time, I say give it a try!"


Be careful!

TheComet
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Posted: 15th Oct 2014 01:11
Did you read the thread DJD? We already established that and pointed out it isn't permanent, only in the scope of Beta testing.

I like offending people. People who get offended should be offended. -- Linus Torvalds
Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 15th Oct 2014 01:31
I did read the thread! I figured bitJericho means using it full time right now, while it is still in Beta. Indeed in the future, I am sure Windows 10 will be a great full time OS.

bitJericho
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Posted: 15th Oct 2014 01:52
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/preview-privacy-statement

I'd recommend reading the whole policy before jumping to conclusions.

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