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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / @ TGC - THE Question - now GameGuru is released on Steam are we going to get...

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Duffer
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Posted: 28th Feb 2015 09:26
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the final release / upgrade of DBPro at any point in future time or will it now stand 'as-is'?

From my point of view, fine either way, although if I had a preference maybe a final release version of DBPro...

But helpful to know for all the DBPro enthusiasts out there...

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
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Cescano
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Posted: 1st Mar 2015 02:00 Edited at: 1st Mar 2015 02:01
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From my point of view, darkbasic pro is above them all, the other TGC stuff seems to be "for the niubs", all premade stuff, every game seems the same, while with dbpro you start from zero and make your own fantasy!
I really wish that the dbpro will be kept updated, but sadly it isn't
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Adrian
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Posted: 1st Mar 2015 13:16 Edited at: 1st Mar 2015 13:18
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Quote: "From my point of view, darkbasic pro is above them all, the other TGC stuff seems to be "for the niubs", all premade stuff, every game seems the same, while with dbpro you start from zero and make your own fantasy! "


I agree.
Looking at the demo games that comes with the blurb they sent me, it looks like you can run around and shoot people in the face with guns, or shoot zombies in the face with guns or.... shoot rabbits in the face with guns.

I know it's early days but all the game demos look exactly the same to me.

Quote: "
Have you always dreamed of making a game but have no wish to delve into the mystical realms of programming or 3D art creation? "

Your game is going to suck then.

Quote: "The graphics engine in FPS Creator Reloaded creates amazing visuals with features such as high res texturing, reflections, cascade shadow mapping and self shadowing techniques. Before you know it you've got the making of your own cool shooter that stands up against the big games of today."

As long as they use Direct X 9 and require you to shoot people in the face with guns.
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Kuper
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Posted: 1st Mar 2015 13:27
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Quote: "I really wish that the dbpro will be kept updated, but sadly it isn't"

Still there is no official answer from Lee Bamber.There is opinion that AppGameKit v2 will be DBPro alternate in future but also there is no words about will be DBPro be updated...


http://anyhowengine.wordpress.com
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Adrian
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Posted: 1st Mar 2015 14:06
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I haven't used AppGameKit so I don't know much about it, but isn't it mainly for making apps for phones and tablets?
Does it even do 3D stuff? I ask because I don't know.

I don't really want to make simple games that run on telephones, I want to write big 3D worlds that require large graphic cards and lots of memory.

Give me an Eyefinity display any day over a 7" tablet
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Ortu
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Posted: 1st Mar 2015 19:52
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∆ this

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Kuper
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Posted: 1st Mar 2015 20:32 Edited at: 1st Mar 2015 20:32
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Quote: "I haven't used AppGameKit so I don't know much about it, but isn't it mainly for making apps for phones and tablets?
Does it even do 3D stuff? I ask because I don't know."

Yes it can do 3d stuff but with many restrictions.Also it use OpenGl not DirectX and very low shader model.


http://anyhowengine.wordpress.com
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Sph!nx
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2015 15:28
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Good question, Duffer.

I've been holding off starting a new project with DBP because of this. People have been discussing this for a long time now and an official statement would be much appreciated.

Regards Sph!nx
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Duffer
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Posted: 8th Mar 2015 10:29
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What say you TGC/ Lee?

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
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Sph!nx
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Posted: 8th Mar 2015 15:21
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Hmm, does not look to good for DBP, I think. To quote RickV from another thread on AppGameKit board.

Quote: "Hi,

Moving forward as a company we have three areas of business;

App Game Kit
GameGuru
Driving Test Apps

All of these are key parts to our business and all will be supported and developed as we move forward.

We have big plans for AGK2 and we're actively working on it right now. So don't worry folks it's not going to go away.

Rick"


Regards Sph!nx
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Burning Feet Man
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Posted: 8th Mar 2015 21:05
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I'm a bit over TGC's FPS obsession. There's more to games than guns & FPS games. Aside from AGK2, I find it disheartening that the FPS genre is the TGC's primary focus. GameGuru looks cheap & nasty.

Help build an online DarkBASIC Professional help archive.
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Cescano
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Posted: 8th Mar 2015 21:32 Edited at: 13th Mar 2015 11:52
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I agree, games are not fps only, there are so many fps around to give you nausea as soon as you hear the fps word.
Why play these <MOD EDIT: This warrants moderation> games when you can play battlefield 4 for example? it's pointless.
Also these kind of games are the same game with a different name, nothing more. The same unoptimized <MOD EDIT: This warrants moderation>.
Sadly my thoughts is that TGC focus more on n00bs stuff because they make more money from them, they earn more selling 1000 copies of GameGuru than 100 of dbpro, with n00b stuff they have an higher amount of potential customers because not everyone is skilled enough to use dbpro, and many so lazy to learn it.
Sadly they are lowering their reputation by giving out these <MOD EDIT: This warrants moderation> and abandoning projects like dbpro, also GameGuru to me it's a renamed FPS Creator.
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Duffer
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Posted: 8th Mar 2015 21:52 Edited at: 8th Mar 2015 21:58
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@ All,

Whoops (re above).

Don't want to get this thread locked!

Have to confess - I've bought both GameGuru and AGK2 (and was a beta payer for both).

Ultimately, and without some serious additional material, I think GameGuru is strictly for FPS (and FPS only) junkies. I do think that with a little creativity you'll be able to create something distinct with it, but having played with it in its current state it does have a certain homogenised feel to it.

It is also at serious risk of putting off the FPS junkies if too many of the resources and 3d furniture has to be bought and paid for in addition to the core product - a balancing act for TGC.

I'm holding out some hope out for AGK2. With a little more 3d graphical power, AI, 3d physics, terrain-esque commands, more Spine support, Sqlite3 support and plugin support across all platforms, it has a potentially far longer life expectancy than most of the tablet/mobile development software out there at present.

DBPro? That is a different product really (although AGK2 is climbing up towards it, it has a long way to go, and of course AGK2 is being written multi-platform, whereas DBPro is 'just' PC).

I firmly believe there is a very long term and a sizable market for a big, bold games programming language (basic programming language based) into DX12 and beyond for PC (and perhaps Mac).

It would be great to see TGC (when they've topped and tailed AGK2 and GameGuru) commit to something on PC/Mac.

Increased power of PCs lends itself to this.

Just imagine what could be achieved now on Windows 8.1, DX12, quad core?

I believe this so firmly that I think someone else will develop this uber PC high level games language, even if TGC don't - which would be a shame because Lee Bamber & co have so much experience.

As per other comments, TGC are being guided by the current market at the moment - they have to do this to be financially viable - follow the money as they say.

However, it's been sad to see far less (of the much-welcomed) involvement of the TGC bods on the forums, much less comment from them. The TGC footprint on these forums (with a few threads being the exception - on AGK2 mainly) has diminished massively over the last year...

Blogs have their place - but I do feel that TGC should re-invest in the huge community on these forums.

We are all good paying punters....

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
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Cescano
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Posted: 8th Mar 2015 22:35
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With my previous post I don't want to say that TGC moves are 100% wrong, obviously they need money to stay alive, and can make the noobies happy with products like GameGuru or Fps Creators, but why do nothing at all with the quality part of their engines which is dbpro? even comparing it to agk2, did you see the games made with it? they are all 2d bad looking stuff, I don't really understand the ones saying that it could be above dbpro, to me seems just a 2d games developing engine for mobile phones.
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Yskonyn
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Posted: 10th Mar 2015 19:35 Edited at: 10th Mar 2015 19:37
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I have been a user of DBPro since release, back in 2003/2004. The fact I am still using it speaks volumes about the amount of fun the software provides me with.
I would love to see DBPro being supported into the future, perhaps with a relaunch of a newer version even. There has been talk for a short while about DBPro Elite or something, but I don't think it became anything other than a gauging for interest here on the forums.
Since AppGameKit started, DBPro went silent out of any official channels, at least.

I am sure many users out there are wishing for continued support or a new DBP release, as it caters to a very different user than their other products.
So the best thing we can do is keep this forum alive and kicking to hopefully make TGC notice we are here to stay!

(Ploughing through Hands On DBP Programming)
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Adrian
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Posted: 12th Mar 2015 16:55 Edited at: 13th Mar 2015 11:54
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Quote: " to me seems just a 2d games developing engine for mobile phones. "


I agree. The stuff I've seen reminds me of my old DOS games, only not quite as good.

Quote: "GameGuru looks cheap & nasty.
"

Yes, DX 9 looks really dated and by the time some new DX12 stuff comes out, the FPS creator or Game Guru, or whatever you call it, will look really old and crappy. It's not looking too hot at the moment.

Quote: "too many of the resources and 3d furniture has to be bought and paid for in addition to the core product"


Do you really want to spend money buying content packs to get the same zombies as everyone else has bought because nobody can be bothered to make or build anything any more?

It comes down to:
Quote: "making a game but have no wish to delve into the mystical realms of programming or 3D art creation?"


Well I DO want to delve into it. I want to absolutely soak myself in it and learn as much as possible about programming games as I possibly can. I want my games to shine and be appreciated by people because I spent the time and energy putting in the hours of graft into them. Everything I write is a labour of love, a Herculian effort that takes me hours and hours of toil. I love it. Most of the programmers I know are the same.
You can take your FPS generator (look, I made a game - you run around and shoot zombies in the face with guns) and go and play Flappy Birds, or Cut The Chord, or Fruit Ninja and <MOD EDIT: This warrants moderation> OFF!

I am really <MOD EDIT: This warrants moderation> that BDPro has been left to rot while everyone panders to the noobs with their construction kits.

If you want to make a game, LEARN TO PROGRAM!

/rant
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Cescano
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Posted: 12th Mar 2015 17:08
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You are absolutely right Adrian, noobs sales killed the quality stuff.

I wish to buy a DirectX 12 version of DbPro in the future instead to move to a different engine, but sadly that will never happen, i think...
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wattywatts
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Posted: 12th Mar 2015 20:22 Edited at: 12th Mar 2015 20:23
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There's a place for those apps. People who don't want to program use gameguru and people who prefer to program in basic (instead of whatever Unity uses) use agk. I feel more or less the same, but let's not go bashing TGC's products on their own forum.
It would be nice to get some sort of response from a TGC rep in this thread, but oh well.
DBP is still completely usable, it's not like we're left with a broken product.
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Cescano
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Posted: 12th Mar 2015 20:43
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Usable yes, completely not, latest editors can't be used under Windows 8.1 and seems they don't care about fixing it, there are also some bugs around.
The fact that DBPro is usable now doesn't mean that in like 5-10 years will still be usefull to make commercial games, standards will get higher and higher and if not updated dbpro will not be usefull anymore to make commercial games.
Imagine now to make commercial games with darkbasic classic, will be the same, graphics will get older and that makes harder to sell your game.
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wattywatts
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Posted: 12th Mar 2015 20:57
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I'm on Windows 8.1, not sure what problem you're having with the editor.
To be fair, dark basic NEVER had cutting edge graphics and I wouldn't recommend using it if that's a big part of what you're after.
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Cescano
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Posted: 12th Mar 2015 21:08
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If you know how to model and use the engine properly the graphics doesn't look bad at all, obviously it's not at the level of unreal engine 4 and such engines, but for the money you need to buy it it's good.
About Windows 8.1, the latest official viewer doesn't work (compatibility errors which can't be fixed, there are several threads about this), for this reason I am using the official editor of 2008, and yes, you can use other editors but they all have bugs, so that's not a big deal.
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wattywatts
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Posted: 12th Mar 2015 22:07
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I'm using the latest official ide, what about it isn't working for you?
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Cescano
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Posted: 12th Mar 2015 22:11
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Are you talking about the editor? because the editor doesn't work for me only but for all the people with Windows 8.1.
When you run it it says please turn off compatibility and then close, even if the compatibility option is not activated
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wattywatts
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Posted: 12th Mar 2015 22:13 Edited at: 12th Mar 2015 22:13
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Try running editor.exe from your dbp/editor/ directory, it should work. At least it does for me.
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BatVink
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Posted: 13th Mar 2015 11:55
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We don't tolerate profanities on this forum, obscured or otherwise. Those responsible have been placed on moderation. Any further instances will result in this thread being locked.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
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Duffer
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Posted: 13th Mar 2015 13:39
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@ BatVink,

Never my intention that this thread should be used such - per my posts. Hoping I am not on moderation?

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
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BatVink
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Posted: 13th Mar 2015 16:17
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Quote: "Hoping I am not on moderation?"

Nope, just the ones that used inappropriate language for a family-rated forum.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
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Cescano
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Posted: 13th Mar 2015 18:22
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It doesn't matter from where you run it, latest versions doesn't work on Windows 8.1, do you have Windows 8.1? If yes probably you have a different version of the editor
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Cescano
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Posted: 13th Mar 2015 18:30
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Also for how much time I will be on moderation?
I am one of the few people who write here, one of the most active, if you turn me down with this moderation thing this forum will die.
About the family-rated thing i thought this was a programming forum and not a forum for kids, isn't it?
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Adrian
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Posted: 13th Mar 2015 21:05
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Quote: "I am really <MOD EDIT: This warrants moderation> OFF"


Appologies, no offence meant.
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Jeff Miller
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Posted: 13th Mar 2015 22:25
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I've run DBP on Windows 8.1 successfully since the day Windows 8.1 was available. The editor I've used since as long as I can remember is Codesurge, a free editor which hasn't been updated in over 5 years when it was last tweaked to accommodate Vista, but which has nonetheless worked for me on every version of Windows I have used before or since. Just make sure to open it with a right click and select Run As Administrator.
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Cescano
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Posted: 13th Mar 2015 23:16
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That's why it's working, I am talking about the OFFICIAL editor
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wattywatts
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Posted: 14th Mar 2015 00:03 Edited at: 14th Mar 2015 00:04
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I must be missing something, because I have no problems running the editor.
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Duffer
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Posted: 14th Mar 2015 04:24
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Oh come on...

1. There are work around with Windows 8.1;
2. Indigo and Code surge work anyway and;

3. Never mind moderated profaners; are TGC committed to effort in to a windows based games development language?

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
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Ortu
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Posted: 14th Mar 2015 05:21
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The answer seems to be pretty clearly 'not at this time' and has been since the db elite thread never really got an official response beyond the opening post. As to dbpro upgrades derived from reloaded, I wasn't holding my breath, there were a lot of maybe and might, mostly by the hopeful community but nothing solid ever remotely confirmed.

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Daniel TGC
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Posted: 14th Mar 2015 05:49 Edited at: 14th Mar 2015 06:04
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I love DBPro I really do, it's awesome. But I have to say I see more potential in App Game Kit v2 and I hope it's 3D features evolve beyond those of DBPro which I'm sure they will. The ability to reach beyond Windows and into iOS, Android and other desktop platforms means as indie developers we potentially reach a wider audience.

Buying AppGameKit is also a great way of supporting the companies development efforts. The royalty-free DBPro system and free updates given to users for more than a decade don't bring the company new cash I'm afraid. So as a company TGC has to develop new and fresh products to survive.
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Ortu
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Posted: 14th Mar 2015 07:02 Edited at: 14th Mar 2015 07:05
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I don't blame them for focusing on profitability, but it would be nice to get some official statement or direction as to the plan for dbpro so everyone isn't left wondering and waiting. Is it done? Will there be a final update hinted at here and there?

Is agk not also royalty free?

If agk could be shown to have a solid plan for bringing up its 3d and ability to harness gaming grade PC hardware, I'd be interested in investing in it.

"I hope it will evolve, i'm sure it will" is not exactly a driving call to action. The common perception among many of us here is that it is for 2d mobile apps for phone hardware and oh yeah you can it on your pc if you want. It sounds a lot like," reloaded is being made with dbpro, they are improving the compiler and other things, these might make it into dbpro upgrade, I hope they will "

Show us that the plan actually is to take it farther, that work is actively being done to make it so, with tangible progress and you will see a better response from us.

This probably sounds harsher than i intend it, i'm actually quite happy with dbpro as is (of course new upgrades would be nice) but it does often feel like when dbpro hold outs aren't simply ignored, were strung along with vague hopes and a push towards other products. I'm not saying give us stuff, i'm just saying be straight with us, give us a solid answer as to the state and future of the language.

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Yskonyn
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Posted: 14th Mar 2015 13:18 Edited at: 14th Mar 2015 13:20
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Without wanting to step on anyone's toes, I do agree with Ortu's sentiment in his last post above.

Perhaps AppGameKit will evolve into a product that surpassed DBPro one day, but a solid roadmap would help those of us sticking to DBP.

An official statement regarding plans for DBP would also be appreciated, be it bad news or good.

Unity is out there, offering a free development kit, which caters well to artists wanting to get into the technical bits of game development.

DarkGDK was a powerful plugin to bridge the gap between DBP and C languages, but that bridge it not under maintenance anymore either it seems.

It would be such a shame to let DBP whittle down and die while the alternatives TGC offer don't have the features to replace it yet.

(Ploughing through Hands On DBP Programming)
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Daniel TGC
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Posted: 14th Mar 2015 14:12 Edited at: 14th Mar 2015 14:16
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Quote: "Is agk not also royalty free?"


Yes it has the same royalty free license.

Quote: "If agk could be shown to have a solid plan for bringing up its 3d and ability to harness gaming grade PC hardware, I'd be interested in investing in it."


It definitely is evolving and being developed! The shader support is pretty amazing right now.



I have no idea what paul and co are working on however I'm not involved in the development process. I just know he's working tirelessly to make it much much better than it is now.

Quote: "If agk could be shown to have a solid plan for bringing up its 3d and ability to harness gaming grade PC hardware, I'd be interested in investing in it."


The trouble with that is that PC Grade gaming hardware means games like battlefield 4 level stuff. Does anyone here have the time or resources to develop a game like that? As an Indie developer community we need to be more creative and more nimble. A great story, some fantastic gameplay, something with passion rather than a Hollywood studio budget.

AGK has the ability to deliver to wider audiences. Also because you're developing for mobile platforms, you can realistically complete with Triple AAA studio titles being delivered on those platform so that limitation kinda benefit us I think. Having said that you can definitely do a ton with AppGameKit v2 that'll make your mobile and tablet cry for mercy so you can make games that require desktop class GPU's.

Quote: "This probably sounds harsher than i intend it, i'm actually quite happy with dbpro as is (of course new upgrades would be nice) but it does often feel like when dbpro hold outs aren't simply ignored, were strung along with vague hopes and a push towards other products. I'm not saying give us stuff, i'm just saying be straight with us, give us a solid answer as to the state and future of the language."


No it's cool I see where you are coming from. TGC isn't trying to string anyone along. The company has a passion for DBPro, it was the basis for GameGuru after all. It's a case of manpower mostly, TGC is a great company and the amount of work the staff is putting into the lineup is extreme. We're all developers here, we know what it's like working on products. I'm sure the company will get around to another DBPro run and I know everyone appreciates the support of this communities long standing members.
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Duffer
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Posted: 14th Mar 2015 14:58
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@ Daniel TGC,

Thank you for responding here on behalf of TGC and so persuasively.

From TGC's viewpoint there are clearly different clientelle here - the GameGuru clients are not the DBPro clients. AGK2 is great kit and will no doubt get better. DBPro is really for people who like to write games specific to Windows and DirectX. With all its plugins it is an incredible piece of kit. You only have to compare it really to some of the alternatives.

I suppose the point is for TGC to take on board that, after they have got to the end of the next phase with AGK2 and GameGuru, they are missing a trick if they ignore their (very large and loyal) DBPro clientelle... Also, that same group like a road map (however distant, even in terms of stated intention) for any future DBPro-esque product or follow-on.

I'm not sure that is in fact AGK2.

If AGK2 could do full-on 3d object enhanced animations etc, and had Sqlite3 and other stuff, maybe.

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
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Ortu
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Posted: 14th Mar 2015 16:19
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the terrain In the video looks pretty good, but it's not just about shaders. can agk work with / modify vertex data? uv data? how well can its performance hold up to real time lighting and shadows? can it work with object limbs? bone based animation? object cloning and instancing? can it hold up to a large number of objects? how much memory can it make use of?

I'm not saying agk or even db elite needs to match BF4 or AAA graphics, but I do want it to be able to do more than the limited memory and performance restrictions of a phone.

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 14th Mar 2015 19:26
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Quote: "the terrain In the video looks pretty good, but it's not just about shaders. can agk work with / modify vertex data? uv data? how well can its performance hold up to real time lighting and shadows? can it work with object limbs? bone based animation? object cloning and instancing? can it hold up to a large number of objects? how much memory can it make use of?

I'm not saying agk or even db elite needs to match BF4 or AAA graphics, but I do want it to be able to do more than the limited memory and performance restrictions of a phone."






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Gervais
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Posted: 14th Mar 2015 23:00 Edited at: 14th Mar 2015 23:03
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First I already have a copy of AppGameKit 2 and love the product and where it is going but

Currently there is no supported 3D animation at all that can be use and there is no way to add user plug-in like in DBP this was one of the biggest advantage of DBP has far has I am concern AppGameKit is a great product but still need years of development to be able to reach the DBP level because no one else can add to the product then TGC programmers

So if Lee did have a chance to push DBP to the next level and this is a huge if (DBP Elite with DX11 or 12 and still be able to use Plug-in) then this could open many doors for us and them has well but I do understand that with every one busy with AppGameKit and Game Guru then there is no more time for us
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Kingius Returns
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Joined: 17th Oct 2013
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Posted: 17th Mar 2015 22:38
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I don't care about mobile games, PC gaming is where its always been at. Mobiles, tablets and consoles have their uses but if I want something cutting edge - or ultracool old school - then it's the PC, baby.
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Cescano
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Posted: 17th Mar 2015 23:52
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I agree with kingius, pc game to me is also the most profitable market and the most rewarding in terms of satisfaction and quality, you can make a low-medium profile game and sell it on steam effortless, people there buy everything so easily, while on mobile games if you look at (the very few) reviews you only see Young guys begging to turn the game "for free", regardless the quality of the game.
These are just my thoughts, but everyone that has experience in selling on both markets could put more light on this.
All what I can see from the Windows Marketplace are trash games with 0 reviews (or very few), no sorry, I will not waste my time on that.

Just an example, did you see "grass simulator"? At first i thought it was a joke, as I have noticed that game before to being released on steam, when it has been released I was very surprised, how could be a game bugged and very poorly made being accepted and sold so many times? Easy reply, you are on steam babe, here everything sells (at least 3d games, 2d games are not appealing the same i see).
Well, that guy, completely unskilled, made around probably 10-20k € in a few months with a game that took probably a week to develope. Put the same effort on a game selling on mobile phones and you probably will see the same amount without the K (thousands).
This is the reason why I don't like agk2 and will never buy it, and I never thought of developing a mobile phone game because of that.
Please TGC, if you read this, put some of your efforts to develope an updated engine to make commercial games, like a new version of dbpro supporting directx 12, I would more likely spend 100-200 € on that in the future than move to a different engine, and I am sure there are a lot of people who think the same here, and remember, games are not just FPS, and GameGuru is more like a level editor than a "game maker tool". It's so sad seing you guys passing from great products such as darkbasic, with all the enthusiasm and efforts you have put on that, to level editors such as GameGuru, who even me I am able to program myself from scratch in a few months, modelling included.
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Daniel TGC
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Posted: 18th Mar 2015 02:16 Edited at: 18th Mar 2015 02:24
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According to various sources (naturally none of which agree) the market share between PC vs Console vs Mobile lays at around 50/30/20 so yes PC Games are selling strongly in the market.

My attitude however is slightly different. I ask a different question.

How can I sell to all of these markets?

For me this lays in App Game Kit, after all. Why sell just to PC, while ignoring the Mac OS, and Linux markets? Steam sells to all of these platforms. Games such as Meatboy, Fez, and others have done very well. So well that people are purchasing the same game on mobile, desktop and console devices.

With PC written games you can sell through steam and various PC vendors. If you are lucky you might get your game on shelves with a nice DVD case. With App Game Kit you can sell on Google Play, Apple's app store, blackberry's store, steam, amazon, and many others... while still having the option to sell on Steam only on Windows, Linux and Mac OS rather than just desktop windows.

DarkBASIC Professional is a fantastic language with a great deal going for it. But I'm all about chances. Lets say for arguments sake that I have a 1% chance of making it big on steam. What if I apply those same odds to each market place, Google Play, Android, Blackberry, and steam. What if my odds were 1% on each, does that mean that I get a 4% chance of making it big on each platform?

Really? I have no idea. I'm not a statistician and won't claim to be. Like most people I rely on common sense. Common sense tells me that the more opportunities I make for myself the better the odds that I might attain a modicum of success.

I'm not going to claim that I've had any success making indie games, I'm afraid that's not been my focus. Instead I made tutorials for DarkBASIC Professional in the form of DarkPRINCIPLE's DVDs. Then I wrote a book on AppGameKit community Edition. Now I'm working on updating that book for AppGameKit v2.

But my profits from that book have not just come from direct sales from TGC. I diversified the work onto Kobo, Kindle, iBooks, and various other ebook stores. Individually I've not made a massive profit, but together I've received a reasonable amount. An amount that would be much less had I just sold on the TGC website.

I will also say that getting my work out there and as exposed as possible has lead me to even greater success. My book caught the eye of an American education development company. I wrote a course for them over a year ago. After that they came back to me and asked me to write one for HTML5. I'm also updating their existing DarkBASIC Professional course. So far I've had the pleasure of seeing hundreds of students learn from the mobile app course with that figure set to grow into the thousands. I earn a greater amount from these sales than I do individual ebooks. I've attained all this by diversifying the markets I can operate in. Why stick just to DBPro or AppGameKit when I can tool up with HTML5 and even expand into other tools? Writing even more courses?

As an indie developer, why stick with just 1 great PC game? Why not try platformers, rpgs, fps games, why not try for 1 - 2 different game releases a year. See what sticks? See who might come across you?

There's more that enough great 2D games out there, and many great ways of making simple 3D games really really fun to play. With a decent shader knowledge those 3D games don't necessarily have to be that simple. With shaders you can use vertex displacement techniques, and some pretty amazing pixel shaders.

I don't see AppGameKit as all that limited, though I will be the first to admit that DBPro can do things in 3D that AppGameKit can not. My question will always be, do I need these things to make a great game?

For some peoples idea's that might be a resounding YES! For others, it might be a no. The two languages abilities are different enough to warrant their use in different situations.
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Gervais
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Posted: 18th Mar 2015 03:15
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Very interesting post but I will point out one point and only one Game Guru is made using DBP not AppGameKit I rest my case to that

may be one day it will be has good has DBP but it is like comparing a 7 year old with a 30 year old AppGameKit need to mature some more and be more open has well and shader it is nice but DBP had that a very long time a go
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Cescano
11
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Posted: 18th Mar 2015 03:16
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Dbpro is not already a beast when it comes to graphics, although is not that bad either, if you put another limit doing the game with AppGameKit, then you figure out that your chances to make a good game are way lower, and with AppGameKit you limit the MAIN market which is steam PC games. Sorry, not a good deal, if AppGameKit would do the same things as dbpro AND converting the same game on multiple platforms, I admit it would be a VERY VERY nice tool!
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Daniel TGC
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Posted: 18th Mar 2015 03:27
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Ask yourself, could you make meatboy with AppGameKit?



Look how popular that became?

How about Angry birds? Can you make that with it?

What about most of the games that appear in the humble bundles?

How many popular games are there that could have been made in AppGameKit? How many games have already been made in AppGameKit?

But hey, here's an even better idea. It's just occured to me. Why not do what I do?

Use BOTH make your epic skyrim clones in DBPro, and your casual angry birds and candy crush in AGK...

Then go sell the both. There's no law that says you just have to be a DBPro or AppGameKit guy.
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Ortu
DBPro Master
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Posted: 18th Mar 2015 03:54
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The problem for me is that i don't want to make those kinds of games. Play them sure, but I have no interest in churning out a hodgepodge of games just to see what sticks. I want to make games that i personally am passionate about. I'm not saying agk users aren't passionate about thier games, they are, but I'm saying that i personally would find it hard to get passionate about working on such games, is just not where my interest is.

Dbp or agk, either way, to me its about making great game not great fame. I'm not going to work on something I'm not enjoying just to make money or get noticed.

Sure, from a business perspective, is best to push out as many games as you can across as many genres and platforms. Get yourself a winning formula and follow it again and again, it's what the commercial studios do.

But at the end of the day, while agk has a broader reach, it seems to me to lack depth. Is like posting to your Facebook page compared to maintaining your own dedicated blog site. It'll have better exposure, but the content doesn't stack up. Social media posts and mobile apps are great as time killers but are rarely more than a passing interest individually.

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