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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Apps For Gear VR/Oculus Rift..?

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snowdog
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Posted: 20th Sep 2015 23:50
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Now that VR gaming has come to smartphones and will soon be coming to PCs, and with the next update in a few weeks we'll be getting more 3D graphics functions...will we be able to create VR games using AppGameKit 2..?

GameGuru, also from TGC, until relatively recently had a VR flag (which was disabled a few builds back) so they've obviously had VR gaming development possibilities in mind at an early stage.

So is there something similar planned for AppGameKit 2..?

Once VR gaming takes off it should be pretty easy to make a few quid from selling VR games across multiple platforms.

"This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

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Zappo
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Posted: 21st Sep 2015 13:27
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That would be a nice idea but support for Oculus Rift etc. would be quite platform dependant. I'm not sure if that ties in with the idea behind AGK.

You can of course already write your own VR apps to support Google Cardboard VR headsets which will work on Android and iOS. I created a proof-of-concept game available here:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=uk.ac.southstaffs.vrclaypigeonshoot

That was created using the existing 3D commands in AppGameKit 2 tier 1.


Chart data provided with kind permission from ELSPA
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CJB
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Posted: 21st Sep 2015 18:00
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Before we can do any serious VR for Google Cardboard (or similar) headsets, we MUST have some sensor-fusion (also known as "Complimentary Filtering") commands to allow us to do accurate head tracking.

The existing sensor commands are not sufficient on their own as the Gyro has inherent increasing-drift issues, where the direction you face at the start won't be the direction you face at the end, even if your head is in exactly the same position (this can be corrected by fusing the 'compass' magntic sensor). Anyone who has tried using just the Gyro for head tracking will probably notice a significant sideways 'wobble' when tilting their head up or down. This can also be fixed by adding the accelerometer sensor into the fusion mix. A fused input, using all three sensors, can give rock solid head tracking performance which is absolutely necessary for VR (unless you want to make your users blow chunks).

Once we have figured out nice sensor-fusion input, we can look into doing some more advanced tricks with the sensors such as linear tracking (i.e. plotting movement through space!). Could make for some fun "dodging stuff" VR games

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Chmava
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2015 12:07
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I'm sure the Gyro "inherent increasing-drift issues" was due to AppGameKit still using a Single-Precision Float for Real calculation...

Infact, it is because of this that we have to use a third party plugin... for pretty much every math calculation.....
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CJB
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2015 12:51
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Even with ultra accurate floating-point calculations, you will still get drift using Gyro alone. The only way to compensate is to fuse (or filter) the results with the magnetic compass data and Accelerometer. I really hope we get some fused-sensor commands built into AppGameKit, as my 1st attempt at doing it manually didn't really work out.

There are plenty of examples to work from, and I think there may even now be some sensor-fusion commands built into the NDK so shouldn't be too hard for Paul to expose for us.

Would be a fantastic compliment to the new 3D set

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Paul Johnston
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2015 00:09
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The GetRawRotationVectorW and similar are fused sensor commands, but phones will still get some drift, only infrared head tracking will give you perfect rotation and head movement.

Since the Oculus Rift's system requirements are a GTX 970 or above I don't think we'll be doing anything specifically for it any time soon, the market will be too small. But as Zappo mentioned, some people have already done some VR with the existing commands.
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CJB
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2015 10:55
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Wow. This is great! Why was this not explained properly in the documentation? Also, the description for GetRawRotationVectorW is actually for GetRawRotationVectorZ, but I get the idea.

Thanks for the tip Paul!

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CJB
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2015 11:51
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Oh wait... Are you fusing the sensors using something like a Kalman filter, or are you relying on the Android NDK to do the leg work? My initial test shows these commands are behaving just like gyro-only on my Galaxy S2 (i.e. horrible sideways wobble when tilting up and down, and drift). Maybe this is a problem with my version of Android? I'll have a go at manually implementing a Kalman filter if I get a spare moment.

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Paul Johnston
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2015 15:45
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It uses the NDK "TYPE_ROTATION_VECTOR" sensor type.
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Mobiius
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2015 23:02
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My Zelda game supports Cardboard style VR.




Now Visit My Website
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 24th Sep 2015 00:15
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Quote: "Since the Oculus Rift's system requirements are a GTX 970 or above I don't think we'll be doing anything specifically for it any time soon, the market will be too small."


Ouch, only got a 770

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Chmava
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Posted: 25th Sep 2015 08:17 Edited at: 25th Sep 2015 08:18
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Actually, the GTX 970 is only required if you are running a high end 3D game.

It work fine for us on my laptop with a build in HD4000 graphic chip...

The only cellphone without this issue is one of those S6 with a GearVR.
Probably due to internal sensors in the headset itself.
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 25th Sep 2015 22:00
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IIRC you should render 2 x 1080p screens at 90 FPS for best results on Oculus. But if the graphics are basic, you use 2D or lower the resolution I think you are fine, like Chmava suggests.

I really want VR support because there will be a fucus on that for a local convention as well as for my game lab.

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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 27th Sep 2015 12:57
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BTW, my GTX 770 renders RTA in 1920x1200 at 2000-4000 FPS with V Sync off. So I think we can do quite a lot even on older GPUs. Sure it's not a very taxing game, but VR is at a stage where it's function over visuals. It's all about experimenting with new ways of interacting with and experiencing games. I want to be able to do something with AppGameKit rather than watch others do things in Unity.

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Alex_Peres
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Posted: 8th Oct 2015 18:26
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Guys, are you serious? Making 3d games in "Blind Mode" is an atavism in 2015! Every 3d game engine uses they own editor, even most of 2d engines now! Games for Oculus have a new amazing graphics, with AppGameKit you are able make fine-enough quality only in 2d (unless you want to create an Quake1 one more time )! IMHO AppGameKit should grow up in 2d more, 3d needs an visual editor. AppGameKit allows you to start developing very fast, it takes a minimum time to learn it, but when you start something complex - you'll find it pretty much difficult to make in this engine. It's my own experience...
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CJB
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Posted: 8th Oct 2015 22:16
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@Alex_Peres: Who said anything about NOT using a visual editor? Personally I've already had a little play with FPSC-2-AGK so could use FPSC as a basic editor straight away. If I were to endeavor on a more complex 3d game, no doubt I'd write an editor to fulfill my needs if I can't find anything suitable. Just because you have to do programming in AppGameKit, doesn't mean you can't use an editor to build your levels
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bjadams
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Posted: 9th Oct 2015 09:37
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Alex: TGC only supplies the programming language, users have to make their own tools. That's the way it has always been with TGC products
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Alex_Peres
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Posted: 9th Oct 2015 15:29 Edited at: 9th Oct 2015 15:30
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Ok, ok, let's say I have enough time to create my own 3d editor from scratch... But what about the material editor? Every modern engine has it for free (actually, every top game engine is free now)! I remind you - it's 2015 now, not 1999! And I don't have at least 2 extra years of my life to make it by myself guys...
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bjadams
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Posted: 9th Oct 2015 15:55
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I feel your pain Alex, but that's how things are with AGK.
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Alex_Peres
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Posted: 9th Oct 2015 16:05
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Thanks man!
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 10th Oct 2015 10:13 Edited at: 10th Oct 2015 10:15
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I don't think you need a GTX970 or a visual editor to make a game like this. And it's a very original game that I have no doubt will lead to much success for the devs. It's all about inventing new ways to interact.

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Alex_Peres
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Posted: 10th Oct 2015 13:06
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Interesting idea. But, even this, simple game is much easier to make using engine with a visual editor...
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 10th Oct 2015 16:16
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Trust me Alex, when all sizes are known before hand, something like this is easier to just type in the coordinates by hand. Or at least a visual editor doesn't help you make it any faster.
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Mobiius
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Posted: 19th Oct 2015 08:45
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I use blender as my 3D editor, worked perfectly fine for my Zelda game.

Now Visit My Website
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Jack
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Posted: 20th Oct 2015 22:41 Edited at: 20th Oct 2015 22:41
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It would be nice, if would figure out how to get the linear acceleration. Then we could actually move without a controller.

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CJB
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Posted: 20th Oct 2015 22:59
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Quote: "Then we could actually move without a controller."
But you'd bump into things. Could be an interesting gaming experience! Hehe.
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