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AppGameKit Classic Chat / [Discussion] Your opinion about considered features?

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Alex_Peres
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Posted: 18th Jan 2017 15:51 Edited at: 18th Jan 2017 15:57
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Quote: "i use AppGameKit because it is a PURE CODE ENVIRONMENT. *please* FTLOG, don't change that!"


I agree! AppGameKit need to be strong without any visual tool. If I want to make game similar to one of https://unity3d.com/showcase/gallery, I'll use Unity or Unreal, but no one here will not make that type of games...
But with AppGameKit I can make my own Clash of Clans or Clash Royal - for sure, and no visual tool is needed! Just media encryption...
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damothegreat
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 10:37 Edited at: 19th Jan 2017 18:59
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....
Using Tier 1 AppGameKit V2
Started coding with AMOS
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Mobiius
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 10:59
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Quote: "but 3D work is more for Tier 2. Tier 1 is for simpler but mainly 2D apps."

No it isn't. It's the same core code, so anything tier 2 can do (without 3rd party APIs) tier 1 can do.

Now Visit My Website
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damothegreat
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 11:30 Edited at: 19th Jan 2017 18:58
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Using Tier 1 AppGameKit V2
Started coding with AMOS
Works with a Lenovo IdeaPad 700, 1TB SSD (Data), 128GB HD (System), 12GB Ram, GeForce Nvdia 950M, Windows 10, 2.3Ghz (Turbo to 3.2ghz when required)
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Alex_Peres
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 18:12
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Quote: "I'm sure if anyone puts there mind to anything, anything and everything is possible with AppGameKit whether it been 3D or 2D."


@damothegreat
Please, show me something really awesome, made of AppGameKit 3d. Something with really good graphics (no 2d).
Even if you can do this, you will spend much more time then if you could in other engine.
AGK is made for hobbyist and it is almost empty to compare with other engines...
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damothegreat
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 18:22 Edited at: 19th Jan 2017 18:58
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...
Using Tier 1 AppGameKit V2
Started coding with AMOS
Works with a Lenovo IdeaPad 700, 1TB SSD (Data), 128GB HD (System), 12GB Ram, GeForce Nvdia 950M, Windows 10, 2.3Ghz (Turbo to 3.2ghz when required)
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Ortu
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 18:55
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Quote: "Even if you can do this, you will spend much more time then if you could in other engine.
AGK is made for hobbyist and it is almost empty to compare with other engines..."


That's because it is not an engine. It is a language which provides a number of engine components. It's up to you to actually take the components and build something.

Really it is more akin to a game framework like the old XNA than it is to a ready-made game engine like Unity.
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Alex_Peres
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 19:11 Edited at: 19th Jan 2017 19:37
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Quote: "Nothing is for free - Unity has all the tools going (but for a PRICE)"


You're wrong! You have all Unity power for free! At least you earn more than $100'000 per year. But even so, you just need to pay $35 per month! $100'000 - ($35*12 = $420($395 with 1 year, prepaid)) = $99'580 per year for high quality engine!
If I'll make $100'000 per year having Unity, and only $10'000 with AppGameKit, tell me what is better? And you can not do the same quality things with AppGameKit for same time! For sure!
Even TGC guys choose Unity! Not AGK...
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damothegreat
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 19:14
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I'm wrong again... Just go away... Do me head in... I'm off
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Alex_Peres
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 19:33
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You are really the great!
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MikeHart
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 19:35
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@Alex_peres: Would you please back off?
Running Windows 7 Home, 64 bit, 8 GB ram, Athlon II X2 255, ATI Radeon HD 4200. Using AGK2 Tier 1.
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Alex_Peres
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 19:47
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@MikeHart That was rude...
I didn't say that I don't like AppGameKit! I like it very much! I just said that it is suitable in some cases, for other cases (3d) there are other good engines.
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MikeHart
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 20:48 Edited at: 19th Jan 2017 20:49
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It is one thing to have an opinion and another thing displaying yourself as the only one who has a clue and declare others as being totally wrong.

AGK2 3D functionality is very young. Of course there isn't much to show at the moment. regarding projects. And maybe there never will be. But I am sure that there isn't much that couldn't be achieved with clever shading programing and good artwork.
Out of the box things don't look very pretty in unity either. Half of the game is good artwork, no matter which engine you use.

Alex_Peres wrote: "You are really the great! "


And you were nice to damo WHERE exactly? Besides telling him that he is WRONG WRONG WRONG! That is why I said back off. Or are you some kind of authority regarding engine knowledge which I don't know off?
Running Windows 7 Home, 64 bit, 8 GB ram, Athlon II X2 255, ATI Radeon HD 4200. Using AGK2 Tier 1.
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Ortu
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 21:07
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Quote: "Half of [the impression of] the game is good artwork, no matter which engine you use."


Bingo.
http://games.joshkirklin.com/sulium

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SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 21:46
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I think agk basic could benefit with a compiler instead of using an interpreter. Looking at how fast darkbasic can run through loops compaired to agk is considerably different. Agk basic is being held back cause the code needs to be interpreted during run time. Give us an option to compile for windows at the least... us basic users would benefit greatly and id pay for such an upgrade. No i dont want to learn c++ as i dont have time to learn something new. I want to program very simple and basic is perfect for what i do.
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Alex_Peres
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 21:56
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First: "You are really the great! " - meaning that he is great person because of he can surrender, in good way.
Quote: ""Besides telling him that he is WRONG WRONG WRONG! ""
Show me this tripple WRONG please!
Second: I just wanted to say that AppGameKit is strong in its simplicity, and it is a bad idea to make it competitor of Unity. Almost everyone is use it for just fun, even if they trying to earn some money on it.
And my thoughts was:"If you want to make real money on it, Isn't' it better to spend more time to learn some stronger engines, than spend much more time to make something looking cool with AppGameKit (3d)?". AppGameKit develops too slow to add complex features on it. We can die before...
It is only my opinion and I don't impose it to anyone.
My apologies if I offended someone's delicate feelings.
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Alex_Peres
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 22:08
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Quote: " i dont want to learn c++ as i dont have time to learn something new"

Coding with c++ is same easy if you will use in the same way as you use AGK-Basic! Just don't use classes if you like. You just need to remember couple of new syntax like ";" in the end of line or brackets somewhere.
By the way, debuging your code in Visual Studio way better that it is in tier1.
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damothegreat
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 22:08
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Its quite ok, no need to apologise, its me that's running before I can walk - I just needed to have a small break.

Ill stay in the noobie area and guide ones with what I truly know until I have had a year or 2 with the product(s)

Damo
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BatVink
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Posted: 20th Jan 2017 10:59
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Quote: "Ill stay in the noobie area and guide ones with what I truly know until I have had a year or 2 with the product(s)"


That is not necessary, yu are already making good contributions. The newcomers board is for people who only have questions and no answers.
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MikeHart
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Posted: 20th Jan 2017 11:01 Edited at: 20th Jan 2017 11:01
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@BatVink: Could the board to be set up, so you can't edit your posts after... say 10-15 minutes anymore?
Running Windows 7 Home, 64 bit, 8 GB ram, Athlon II X2 255, ATI Radeon HD 4200. Using AGK2 Tier 1.
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haliop_New
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Posted: 20th Jan 2017 15:12
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3d functionally is indeed very simple in the current stage of AppGameKit but we can make great things out of it If you take into account all the drawbacks still a decent game can be made.

this is a game I'm working on right now
yes it lacks of shades
yes it lacks of shadows
yes it lacks of good lightning.

but the game is extremely fun
and most of the people I showed this 2 are very happy with it .

so yeah it wont be as nice as I could make it in unity but it would be as nice as I could make it in AGK.

overall , AppGameKit is awesome lets just not forget it.

video attached.
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haliop_New
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Posted: 20th Jan 2017 15:15
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also I found this cruising youtube

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PSY
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Posted: 20th Jan 2017 15:34
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Personally, I'd really love to see

STEAM Achievements and Stats support
3D Shadows

3D Particles and AI pathing should be done by the user.

PSY LABS Games
Coders don't die, they just gosub without return
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janbo
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Posted: 20th Jan 2017 17:09
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It would be nice to have every feature
But it doesn't work like that ..not ?
I'm pretty happy with the 2D Particle system...but I need 3D Particles too...
So I could do my own but it would be "much" slower than it could be if Paul implements it.
1. He does have experience with good particle systems I guess
2. He does have access to the render pipeline but we don't have (so he can use quads for example)
3. And AppGameKit is interpreted instead of compiled (as mentioned above: faster loops)
But ofc it could be done by the community

Path-finding ...I have basic A* and I have one for zombie/TD ..that state where you exit the search algorithm as soon as you reach the goal and that state where you explore every single node
Hm there are many kinds of heuristics for such algorithms ...I guess It would be hard to cover them all for Paul ?
btw here is a very nice tutorial: A* Tutorial

Using AGKv2 Tier1
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okee
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Posted: 20th Jan 2017 17:15
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The one change I would like to see with AppGameKit is how sprites and text are managed
I find the current process where loading sprites and they display instantly a bit labourious
i know there are options to draw off screen, hide the sprites etc but it takes a lot
more work to manage the sprites
I'm coming from other languages like blitz, glbasic where the sprites are loaded and
in memory and only appear when they are drawn with a Draw command.
i.e

mysprite = Loadimage (myimage.png)
yoursprite = Loadimage(yourimage.png)

// sprite only drawn in this loop
while escape key isn't pressed


Drawsprite mysprite,10,10

endwhile

I'm just wondering if anyone else has any view on this ?
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damothegreat
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Posted: 20th Jan 2017 19:20
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Wouldn't the SetSpriteVisible (0) or SetSpriteVisible (1) work for you?

Means you can keep the sprite at its current location, instead of moving it off the screen but to just make it invisible or appear when needed?

Damo
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MikeHart
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Posted: 20th Jan 2017 20:57
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Okee,, manually drawing, you can do too in AGK2.
Running Windows 7 Home, 64 bit, 8 GB ram, Athlon II X2 255, ATI Radeon HD 4200. Using AGK2 Tier 1.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 21st Jan 2017 21:39
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Quote: "Path-finding ...I have basic A* and I have one for zombie/TD ..that state where you exit the search algorithm as soon as you reach the goal and that state where you explore every single node
Hm there are many kinds of heuristics for such algorithms ...I guess It would be hard to cover them all for Paul ?
btw here is a very nice tutorial: A* Tutorial"


IanM wrote a very nice A* library in DBP and I ported it to AGK. It works pretty well.
http://www.zimnox.com/resources/agk/libraries/

"I like offending people, because I think people who get offended should be offended." - Linus Torvalds
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SpecTre
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Posted: 21st Jan 2017 23:41
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https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/218657?page=1#msg2594865

Check this link for a 2D and GUI tool.
Great work and this is the kind of thing I was thinking about when saying AppGameKit needs tools built in and then it lets you get on with the main coding.

So like I said being able to pure code still but have the benefit of editors for maps, sprites, bones etc.

Would work well.
The Amiga and Amos were great!
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