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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Want feedback of my current project...

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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 18th Feb 2018 16:01 Edited at: 18th Feb 2018 16:09
I simply don't get much feedback on slide db or any of the other indi groups
Most of them are only talking and giving feedback to each other unity and unreal projects
And this is on also very simple games on these engines..

Early alfa..... V 0.3 now out.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.playattabitar.Pixelstein



The project may not look like much but i have invested a lot of time and is about now 2 months....
Stopped counting hours because its a lot on the side of my fulltime work
And also money in music and sound assets and is now around 50 us dollars so far only in sound.
I currently draw everything myself to save a few bucks.
CJB
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Location: Essex, UK
Posted: 18th Feb 2018 17:31
Looks great! I like the retro feel. Was this Tier 1 or 2?

Maybe increase the search-dead-guy button contact radius... In your vid, it looks like sometimes you were having trouble getting it to appear when standing over a body. (moving back and forth to get the search button to appear).

puzzler2018
User Banned
Posted: 18th Feb 2018 17:37
well done, looks cool indeed
baxslash
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Posted: 19th Feb 2018 07:42
Looks really great. I think the artwork is perfect for the style of the game.
Using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
Santman
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Posted: 19th Feb 2018 09:49
Looks awesome, really week done. The only feedback I would say was I really don't like the gun....it seems to lack substance for me, I'd like it 3d. Even if that's just making it thicker, like those Minecraft mods do to items. If also maybe make it more clear badies are dead.....I thought they were crouching initially.

BUT if this is only two months, it's spectacular! Well done.
Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Location: Sweden
Posted: 19th Feb 2018 14:48
thanks CJB...
I stick to basic as its fast and simple and Power full enough so far
I where a agk v2 backer so its basic i use there.
I will widen the search body on next update.

Thanks baxslash

Thanks santaman...
The weapons are placeholders so far to get the feel of how it looks and where simple to put in.
I liked the way they piled down not to low but will look on it later on..
Taking a few days break from the project..
Nead some rest.
hendron
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Posted: 19th Feb 2018 15:33
Nice work. I'll second Santman's suggestion about making the death animation a bit clearer. I too was wondering why all the enemies were crouching down at first, lol.
RickV
TGC Development Director
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 19th Feb 2018 15:57
Hi,

Looks great and should appeal to old and new users!

FPS style games are hard to play on touch devices but this looks well designed from that point of view.

Some feedback

* When enemies are shot dead I'd prefer them to fade out, they get in the way of the view
* It wasn't clear where my health bar was. Maybe better in green and then red when low
* When the game is over, offer a continue option (maybe via a video advert view)
* I would like a cross hair to help with shooting
* I'd make the first levels much easier. Just much smaller so users progress and don't get frustrated early

Good luck!


Rick
Development Director
TGC Team
Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Location: Sweden
Posted: 19th Feb 2018 20:21
Thanks for all the feedback ...
Now do i know i nead to look at the enemie Death then when i have 3 that Points that out
Maybe do some paper mario thing where they flip towards the floor and fades away

So the current check list for next update.

*Maybe increase the search-dead-guy button contact radius... In your vid, it looks like sometimes you were having trouble getting it to appear when standing over a body. (moving back and forth to get the search button to appear).
Alrady done.

* When enemies are shot dead I'd prefer them to fade out, they get in the way of the view
looking in to something to fade it out nicely.

* It wasn't clear where my health bar was. Maybe better in green and then red when low
Will see watah i can do and maybe add some type of sound when Health is low...
I currently have armour and Health in the game.

* I'd make the first levels much easier. Just much smaller so users progress and don't get frustrated early
Will make 3-5 much smaller and simplier levels.

-------------Already ingame ---------------------------------------
* When the game is over, offer a continue option (maybe via a video advert view)
Already in the game as an revive option to get all stats and settings back when you died the last time.
Gets everything back but neads to replay level.

* I would like a cross hair to help with shooting
Already ingame as a red dot upgrade but belive i nead to make this much more clear?
Its in the shop section.

all of it will be in alfa 0.4
GarBenjamin
AGK Developer
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Posted: 19th Feb 2018 20:36
Glad you got some great feedback. It looks very nice and I can only go by the video. I just hate mobile games never got into them. Tried a few and the phone and virtual buttons is such a poor excuse for a game console. I guess I am too used to playing games on real hand held consoles like the DS but mainly only play games on my PC and PS3.

When you get the Windows desktop version or a web version out I will play that and give you feedback!
TI/994a (BASIC) -> C64 (BASIC/PASCAL/ASM/Others) -> Amiga (AMOS/BLITZ/ASM/C/Gamesmith) -> DOS (C/C++/Allegro) -> Windows (C++/C#/Monkey X/GL Basic/Unity/Others)
Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 19th Feb 2018 22:09
Gar you should try my Controls because im a consol gamer
So give it a try
I will upload a new alfa in a couple of Days with all updates suggested.
Santman
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Posted: 19th Feb 2018 22:50
Ok I didn't realise we could download it. Lol.

I just tried it now, seems very fluid and smooth. Having played it, I see think dead guards are too big....when you walk close they can block a significant amount of the screen....difficult to see enemies behind them.

I also think that searching is difficult....in terms of getting on top of a guard. Maybe increase the perimeter of the area you need to be in to search one? I.e. not so close. I would also not start the player with so many guns.....guns should be found randomly lying around levels in perfectly sequenced increasing power.....if Doom taught us anything. Lol.

Graphics and sound are brilliant, really good atmosphere. I assume barrels will at some point explode?
GarBenjamin
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Posted: 20th Feb 2018 03:36 Edited at: 20th Feb 2018 03:38
Another reason I don't like mobile games / apps in general is because they always want access to information on my phone. Some are ridiculous with the amount of permissions they ask for and I honestly believe this is a big part of how people's personal stuff gets stolen. I am not saying YOU are doing that but I mean the way mobile games are in general people pretty much just give them access to everything stored on their phone. And that seems crazy to me.

Anyway, I decided what the heck and just went to install it. Is there a reason why the app needs access to this stuff...



I know I am pretty extreme and maybe even weird when it comes to this stuff I guess but I always find such things very odd why so many mobile games need access to my contact list, documents, images, videos, my wi-fi network name, names of devices connected and so forth.

Again don't take it personally. I just am put off by this stuff in general. The few games I have checked out are the rare ones that say Special Permissions Needed: None.
TI/994a (BASIC) -> C64 (BASIC/PASCAL/ASM/Others) -> Amiga (AMOS/BLITZ/ASM/C/Gamesmith) -> DOS (C/C++/Allegro) -> Windows (C++/C#/Monkey X/GL Basic/Unity/Others)
Santman
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Posted: 20th Feb 2018 08:57
They are needed and default in AGK. The media one is to use the camera commands (and probably some fundamental file and folder ones), the Wi-Fi is needed for the network commands, specifically the isnetworkactive and such.

These are pretty normal things to be fair.
Midget Blaster
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Posted: 20th Feb 2018 12:33
Looks stunning, well done
GarBenjamin
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Posted: 20th Feb 2018 15:43 Edited at: 20th Feb 2018 16:01
@santman oh I am not saying he is doing something "bad" just that I don't like it period. This is one more reason I never play mobile games or use any apps beyond the bare minimum such as Firefox web browser, email, the built-in texting and so forth. A big reason for games is I prefer more action oriented games and the experience of these games on phone compared to web, desktop or console due to the controls is just not as good. And then add on top everything wanting all of these permissions to explore my phone and I just happily stay away from it all.

Basically I am just not a cell phone gamer. Tried a few dozen games nothing was good enough to be worth the access they want. And that is not saying the developers were bad it is saying the cell phone itself is flawed as a game machine for the kind of games I am interested in. So I have that mindset already then add on top of that all of this prompting will you allow the app to access your media files will you allow the app to access your wifi network information and others are even worse will you allow the app to access your contact list and call history.

I mean it is just weird. Why in hell would any game need these things and why would any person allow just any app to have access? I think many people just don't even read it. But there are a lot who do and indeed are sites with articles on this kind of thing about these apps asking for such permissions.... because it is just odd. Imagine you ran a game on your computer and it asked can I scan your media files? Can I access your email contact list and email history?

Anyway sorry Cliff I never meant to derail this. I will gladly check out a web build with keyboard or keyboard & mouse controls.
TI/994a (BASIC) -> C64 (BASIC/PASCAL/ASM/Others) -> Amiga (AMOS/BLITZ/ASM/C/Gamesmith) -> DOS (C/C++/Allegro) -> Windows (C++/C#/Monkey X/GL Basic/Unity/Others)
Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 20th Feb 2018 18:20
Thanks everyone for the input and many things are already in the next build.

Gar its as simple as this

If my app wants to write anything like a config file or settings file so di i have to ask the user for permission to use the Android write to external storage.
And for the add banners to work so do i nead to have acces to load banners thru your wifi or 4g..

There do you have the permissions

Goggle could finetune to explain wath all permissions are about...
But can only say that its very hard to upload something to damage your phone nowdays on goggle play and not like the old wild west.
They have virus Scans and people go thru your apps in a completely other way today.
If you start goggle play will you se a info bar stating found no problems with your apps or something..
There is a built in scanner in newer Android versions.

But i understand wath you mean as how they write the permissions sounds scarry to some.
GarBenjamin
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Posted: 20th Feb 2018 19:00 Edited at: 20th Feb 2018 19:13
So it sounds like they take a blanket approach where if you want one tiny reasonable access instead of it being presented that way it is presented in a group blob of permissions being asked for.

Well like I said the main reason for me is I just don't play games on my phone. I do visit this forum and a couple other game dev sites, weather, email, text messages and phone calls on my cell but that is about it.

Anyway back on topic. Your game does look great! And I think it would be a lot of fun if you decide to release it outside of mobile at a later point when you get it to where you want it be.
TI/994a (BASIC) -> C64 (BASIC/PASCAL/ASM/Others) -> Amiga (AMOS/BLITZ/ASM/C/Gamesmith) -> DOS (C/C++/Allegro) -> Windows (C++/C#/Monkey X/GL Basic/Unity/Others)
Mobiius
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Posted: 21st Feb 2018 09:24
@Gar: That is way too overprotective an attitude to have! No-one complains about PC games needing hard drive access, or network access, but as soon as it's on a mobile device it's pure evil incarnate! I find this attitude confusing, especially from a software developer who should know how these things work!
Of course an app needs permission to use the storage device and network access, files/adverts don't magic themselves out of nowhere!
I just find peoples ultra paranoia of mobile devices to be unnecessary, especially considering we don't give a crap about what our PC's are doing in the background.
GarBenjamin
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Posted: 21st Feb 2018 14:28 Edited at: 21st Feb 2018 14:29
LOL I give a crap about what software is doing on my pc as well.

Well I am sure it seems extreme and weird but these days where not just bank, cc and other digital theft but even entire identity theft is not uncommon and almost always done with cell or website or pc hacks I think there is every reason to have these views and not just blindly allow access. But this is a personal thing for sure that each person needs to decide. For me I actively defend against these things and it doesn't hamper my enjoyment because I don't play mobile games anyway.
TI/994a (BASIC) -> C64 (BASIC/PASCAL/ASM/Others) -> Amiga (AMOS/BLITZ/ASM/C/Gamesmith) -> DOS (C/C++/Allegro) -> Windows (C++/C#/Monkey X/GL Basic/Unity/Others)
PHeMoX
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Posted: 21st Feb 2018 14:57
Sorry for going a bit off topic, but...

Quote: "So it sounds like they take a blanket approach where if you want one tiny reasonable access instead of it being presented that way it is presented in a group blob of permissions being asked for."


It´s more the exact opposite. You provide the end user with the ability to see the permissions required and when an app is made in a honest fashion, it would always only ask for the minimal amount of permissions for the app to work. That´s really all there is to it.

Quote: "But this is a personal thing for sure that each person needs to decide. "


Not really. For an app on PC you would also decide whether or not you let it install. Sometimes you get applications that require additional applications to be installed and giving your permission for that would not be different from Android or iOS and permissions. In fact, speaking of those, you really get basically no access to the phone in any significant ways on iOS and even on Android it´s mostly the reserved space for the app, which has no read-write access to the root of the phone. The ´worst´ most apps could do is read or write to your SD card, which would basically never pose a real threat to your phone's basic functionality. Compared to the average Windows PC with a truckload of malware running in the back, I would say most Android and iOS phones are a lot better secured.
puzzler2018
User Banned
Posted: 21st Feb 2018 15:06
personal choice and depends how eager one wants to play an app!

So make them really Impressive..
GarBenjamin
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Posted: 21st Feb 2018 19:41
Yeah I wish I had just not even bothered to go to the playstore to give it a chance to install it and saw the permissions pop-up. Then talk about it here.

I never meant for all of this to come out of it and completely derail Cliff's thread.

After this I won't reply any more about it so his thread can get on track. Basically as I have said many times now I just don't play mobile games nor use mobile apps heavily. I play games on my Windows laptop on desktop and browser and on my consoles (NES, Genesis, PS2 and PS3).

It's like Clash of Clans a game I've heard about countless times. Never checked it out never even watched a YT video on it. All I am saying is AppGameKit makes it very easy to make a game for desktop and web so if / when a person releases it that way I will check it out.

The permissions stuff is just another reason I don't play such games on mobile not the primary reason but just one more reason beyond me simply not being a cell phone gamer.
TI/994a (BASIC) -> C64 (BASIC/PASCAL/ASM/Others) -> Amiga (AMOS/BLITZ/ASM/C/Gamesmith) -> DOS (C/C++/Allegro) -> Windows (C++/C#/Monkey X/GL Basic/Unity/Others)
Bengismo
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Posted: 21st Feb 2018 20:24
Bringing this back on topic, i like the game and it does remind me of playing original doom and wolfenstein...(obviously)

I dont like the way the dead enemies stay on screen...and its been said above that they do take up a bit of room. Graphics and sound are great. Good job.
Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2018 16:24
No worries gar

Thanks bengismo i have fixed that issue and doing a large overhaul with all suggestions and new wall textures that are slightly more detailed..
Will post as soon as the tgc forum suggestion version is online..
The grafix slows me down right now
Iam a slow painter.....
GarBenjamin
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2018 16:41 Edited at: 22nd Feb 2018 17:09
Art always takes time and the better the art the more time needed. Not really linear either seems to be more of a geometric rate which is why some other game dev forums are filled with threads showing screenshot after screenshot of superb graphics for a game that never exists.

Anyway... this game looks very good Cliff. I think you have done an excellent job on the graphics and it is understandable it takes time to produce this quality level for everything. It is really very nice work IMO!
TI/994a (BASIC) -> C64 (BASIC/PASCAL/ASM/Others) -> Amiga (AMOS/BLITZ/ASM/C/Gamesmith) -> DOS (C/C++/Allegro) -> Windows (C++/C#/Monkey X/GL Basic/Unity/Others)
Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2018 20:49 Edited at: 22nd Feb 2018 21:02
To show why the update take so much time
I also have to retexture every level now
But is Worth it at the end....
This update will be up saturday or sunday that i vall the tgc update
Njaaa alfa 0.4....

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fubarpk
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Posted: 4th May 2018 14:03
Love it the retro feel is amazing
fubar
Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 5th May 2018 07:45
Phaelax
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Posted: 7th May 2018 13:11
Quote: "@Gar: That is way too overprotective an attitude to have! No-one complains about PC games needing hard drive access, or network access, but as soon as it's on a mobile device it's pure evil incarnate! I find this attitude confusing, especially from a software developer who should know how these things work!"


Might have to do with the level of trust in PC games vs mobile apps. Apps are way more likely to abuse the accessed privileges they're granted. When's the last time you played a PC game that used the network to connect to a dozen different ad servers at a time? Or request access to information on your phone that no game should ever have a reason to need?
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fubarpk
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Playing: AGK is my friend
Posted: 7th May 2018 14:23
Quote: "I simply don't get much feedback on slide db or any of the other indi groups
Most of them are only talking and giving feedback to each other unity and unreal projects
And this is on also very simple games on these engines.."


Seems very hard nowadays to get good feedback and sometimes very good programs
just seem to get missed from any feedback at all. Pixelstein reminds me very much of
doom if its a paid app i cant download to try it tho. As allot of these games stemmed
from the original castle wolfenstein on apple 2 perhaps could german accents or similar.
I remember it was the german accents in that game that very much inspired me in those
days but times has changed some people want super fantastic graphics with an amazing
engine for little cost while others just want something that reminds them of a game they
used to play or just something simple and fun. I think youve hit thye nail on the head
with simple and possibly addictive so maybe if your program is asking for permissions
that users may be reluctant to give could be a reason why your not getting many downloads.
Another thing is that the programs exposure if its only exposed in google play there could
be some reason why its not getting exposed to enough people. I do feel your pain tho i
gave up on paid apps cos the only way it seems to make money with them is to use a coin
based system and still have them free to play. Which i kind of object too as its against my
principles.

GOODLUCK THO some good suggestions from the above peoples comments

fubar
blink0k
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Posted: 7th May 2018 22:50 Edited at: 7th May 2018 22:53
How do you access the controller. How is it attached and what commands do you use to access it?
You game is very impressive looking at the video. Very nice work!

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